Question about Death spells? Side effects?

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Arzachel
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Re: Question about Death spells? Side effects?

Post by Arzachel »

Liberator wrote:What are the side effects of using death spells? Is it true that when you use one it comes back and you have to die too eventually?
What if you killed more than one person?
Rin wrote:If you have the power to kill someone with magic, you have the power to stop them doing whatever they're doing without killing them.
It's not that simple, I'm afraid... :(

About karma I would say the following:
Imagine a situation when you use - for example - some sort of spell that makes a stone fall down and crush a car. It doesn't cause much of that karmic baclash, does it?
Now another situation. You cast a spell that makes the same stone fall down and kill someone.
It is exactly the same to me. In both cases you cause some piece of matter fall and destroy another piece of matter. After all you don't inflict damage to the soul of that person, only to mundane, physical stuff of which both that car and human are made; you can say that person still does live, just detached from some piece of low-quality meat and bones. So actually there is no reason to get greater karmic backlash in the second case :)

Humans tend to value life of other humans higher than of any other creature, despite the fact that most animals feel fear, pain etc. just as humans do. You kill the mosquito that annoys you, but you don't kill a man doing the same. As we all are taught since our birth that "thou shalt not kill" or something like that, and the law prohibites it, our unconscious mind gradually becomes convinced that killing a human automatically results in some sort of penalty. Therefore this punishment becomes true (unless your mind works in some other way than that of most humans) and you probably will somehow be damaged by your own action, be it magickal or mundane attack. But it is only in your head and probably can be overcame. You know, the universe itself doesn't worship any religion, nor is it subordinate to ideas of some race of insignificant beings with overgrown ego dwelling on a small planet amidst the infinite space :P
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Re: Question about Death spells? Side effects?

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Arzachel wrote:Humans tend to value life of other humans higher than of any other creature, despite the fact that most animals feel fear, pain etc. just as humans do. You kill the mosquito that annoys you, but you don't kill a man doing the same. As we all are taught since our birth that "thou shalt not kill" or something like that, and the law prohibites it, our unconscious mind gradually becomes convinced that killing a human automatically results in some sort of penalty. Therefore this punishment becomes true (unless your mind works in some other way than that of most humans) and you probably will somehow be damaged by your own action, be it magickal or mundane attack. But it is only in your head and probably can be overcame. You know, the universe itself doesn't worship any religion, nor is it subordinate to ideas of some race of insignificant beings with overgrown ego dwelling on a small planet amidst the infinite space :P
But sapient/intellectual species do however.

And what about for the humans who do feel more empathy for domesticated animals such as dogs than for humans or give them equal empathy? I personally believe that those who kill them in a cruel way deserve a death penalty with the exact same amount of pain they inflicted on them.

Killing mosquitoes? Its Self-Defence against the pain and disease their bites inflict, people hate them mainly because of that. Most notably the itchy and painful swells they cause and malaria.

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Re: Question about Death spells? Side effects?

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Haqim wrote:
Liberator wrote:What are the side effects of using death spells? Is it true that when you use one it comes back and you have to die too eventually?
Side effects?
As the others said, it depends on your paradigm.
Liberator wrote:I do not plan on using any death spells yet but I would like to know incase if I needed it one day. Apologies if this question seems insensitive but I need it planned out incase someday I ever have to use it.
What you're describing here is called Red or War Magic.

Black or Death Magic is not something you use for self-defense.
It's more like a magical sniper rifle.
Or a genetically engineered killing virus.

It would be redundant to describe all the ethics and paradigmatical effects (as I said the others already did that), but I want to tell you something...
Don't.
Don't use Death Magic.

Not because it isn't working. Oh no, it works, I can tell you - I know, because I used it a few times (although mos of the times not directly / intentionally, but I'll say no more).

A few years ago someone held this little speech to me and then I just laughed about it.
Now I know what he meant.

Using nasty magic will corrupt you.
It leaves marks... scars.
Because you are your own magic.
Trust me: you won't wash it away. You're gonna carry the burden till the grave.

I know this sounds melodramatic. I thought the same thing when I heard it.

So these are the only side effects.
Nothing more.
Black magic is surprisingly easy - but forgetting is much harder.

Oh, and one more thing: hurting people who hurt you is, as I said, really easy.
Hurting public enemies and "celebrities" (so basically people who you don't know directly) are very difficult.

But again: I think you seek Red Magic and not the Balck one.
By marks and scars what do you mean? Also, where can I find out about "red magic" or "war magic" and the spells for them?

I've searched about it and can't find anything.

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Re: Question about Death spells? Side effects?

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I believe Haqim is talking about the impact it actually has on your life.
Which is, I verify, unforgettable and indeed scarring.
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Re: Question about Death spells? Side effects?

Post by Haqim »

cyberdemon wrote:I believe Haqim is talking about the impact it actually has on your life.
Which is, I verify, unforgettable and indeed scarring.
Yes, emotional scars.
Before I've started to practice chaos magic I considered myself a 'good man'.
Then, after years in the occult, I believed that morals don't have a meaning to me anymore.

Yet when I use "nicer" paradigms, I begin to feel the burdens of these "nasty" magical acts from my past.

Oh, don't think that as a big bad mage I'm not proud that I could protect myself or my loved ones from enemies.
That's actually a pretty cool feeling - along with the cold served dish called 'revenge'.
... but it depends on your paradigm, on your whole belief-system.

If you act as a "neutral" - or even: "evil" - mage, then go on, cast whatever you want, there will be no side-effects.
But if you act as a "good guy" (so basically you believe in labels like 'good' and 'bad' persons), then beware: your own conscience will punish you as a side-effect.
"Nothing is true. Everything is permitted."

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Re: Question about Death spells? Side effects?

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I've known a few people who dealt in hexing and black arts and they tend to come to weird and unpleasant ends themselves (one even weird enough to make national news). I don't think the reasons are all that complicated. If you've ever done any magical workings, you've experienced the "after effects" of lingering energy. Often I'm so hyped up after rituals I can't even sleep, and I have to take extra time to ground all the excess energy I raised. So by that same logic if you're able to raise or draw enough malevolent energy and throw it with enough force to harm or kill someone, some of it will hang around afterward and have toxic effects on you. Repeat that enough times and it can really mess you up. That said I'm not telling people not to throw death spells, I'm just saying you'd better have a damn good reason, damn good protection, and be damn good at grounding and banishing afterward. Otherwise it's just not worth the risk, even leaving the moral issues out of it.

Edit: And I also agree with Haqim's point that many people change and soften with age, so what makes you feel "big and bad" now may weigh heavily on your conscience later.
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Re: Question about Death spells? Side effects?

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Haqim wrote:
cyberdemon wrote:I believe Haqim is talking about the impact it actually has on your life.
Which is, I verify, unforgettable and indeed scarring.
Yes, emotional scars.
Before I've started to practice chaos magic I considered myself a 'good man'.
Then, after years in the occult, I believed that morals don't have a meaning to me anymore.

Yet when I use "nicer" paradigms, I begin to feel the burdens of these "nasty" magical acts from my past.

Oh, don't think that as a big bad mage I'm not proud that I could protect myself or my loved ones from enemies.
That's actually a pretty cool feeling - along with the cold served dish called 'revenge'.
... but it depends on your paradigm, on your whole belief-system.

If you act as a "neutral" - or even: "evil" - mage, then go on, cast whatever you want, there will be no side-effects.
But if you act as a "good guy" (so basically you believe in labels like 'good' and 'bad' persons), then beware: your own conscience will punish you as a side-effect.
What about if someone has a mentality of greater good and "end justifies the means"?

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Re: Question about Death spells? Side effects?

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Liberator wrote:What about if someone has a mentality of greater good and "end justifies the means"?
Excellent question.

But instead of giving a simple answer, I'll show you how one of my recent paradigms handle this situation:

The "paladin" aka the "man of God": Now this is something like you've mentioned. The mage is an incarnation of Chaos, also called 'God'. If you do something and it feels good, then it was an act of God incarnated, ergo "good".
Addendum: Unfortunately (?) I've never done anything harming with this paradigm - yet one could use "holy light", summoned angels or powerful prayers against someone. Those who act against (the man of) God shall perish.

And it's totally different than the usual Black Magic - yet the results can be the same.

It's always about the approach.
If you think what you're doing is evil, you will feel bad and this can weaken your power.
(Although, in some cases, doing evil acts can liberate you. Been there, done that. Sometimes it can help.)

Bottom line: it's all up to you.
Magic is about results.
What I'm saying is you always have to take the consequences of your actions.
"Nothing is true. Everything is permitted."

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Re: Question about Death spells? Side effects?

Post by Arzachel »

Liberator wrote: But sapient/intellectual species do however.
Yes, I mean this is just these species' idea, not the universe's, so you aren't determined by it unless you allow it.
Liberator wrote: And what about for the humans who do feel more empathy for domesticated animals such as dogs than for humans or give them equal empathy? I personally believe that those who kill them in a cruel way deserve a death penalty with the exact same amount of pain they inflicted on them.
So you think only domesticated animals feel pain?
Liberator wrote: Killing mosquitoes? Its Self-Defence against the pain and disease their bites inflict, people hate them mainly because of that. Most notably the itchy and painful swells they cause and malaria.
Then why don't you kill humans in self-defence? Especially that mosquitoes bite because they need to eat (and in most climates they don't even transmit diseases), while humans don't torment you for food or any other necessity, they do it just for fun. Thus it is more reasonable to kill a human in such a situation than a mosquito.
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cyberdemon
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Re: Question about Death spells? Side effects?

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Liberator wrote:What about if someone has a mentality of greater good and "end justifies the means"?
Justification is only one person's point of view. It's funny, because every human being believes their actions are justified no matter what.

A mentality of greater good is an admirable thing to have, I have the same! But there is always two sides to a coin, a yin to the yang and when something disrupts a balance, there will be a counter-balance. Think in terms of the laws of motion, "every action has an equal and opposite reaction". Now, the Action can have your intended effect, yes, but the Reaction - you cannot predict, for it isn't any single human's mere choices or perspectives that alone dictate it.
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Re: Question about Death spells? Side effects?

Post by Haqim »

I miss those times when shamans just killed people without overthinking the whole thing. XD

And yes, yes, it's me who said that you're going to feel terrible if you use black magic, but hey: it's up to you.
You want to try it? Do it!

Using black magic is like being a soldier (for example a sniper).
A soldier does what he has to do.
"Nothing is true. Everything is permitted."

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Re: Question about Death spells? Side effects?

Post by Vovi »

Karma is karma. There is no secret to escaping it. Having no morals or thinking what we do is justified can never cause us to be beyond this law. Being a psychotic
is also not going to save you from it. We do what we want after all, and the universe also does the same.

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Re: Question about Death spells? Side effects?

Post by Arzachel »

Vovi wrote:Karma is karma. There is no secret to escaping it. Having no morals or thinking what we do is justified can never cause us to be beyond this law. Being a psychotic
is also not going to save you from it. We do what we want after all, and the universe also does the same.
Provided karma exists. And we can argue endlessly, since no one is able to prove it does or does not.
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