False Tarot reading and other scams live on TV

[Matrozs]

Good night/day to everybody ,
don't let the title fool you , I'm not 100% sure of this , there's much space for errors.

There is a group of self-proclaimed ''master occultists'' who have daily shows on the top 5 Tv channels broadcasted in my country. They offer occult services online and during the live broadcasting on Tv , including : tarot readings, curse checks , curse breakings , exorcisms(yes, live , through the Tv!) , money and health spells ,other things.
The price is very expenisve( for me at least) : 1,32 € /min .
Now , here is how they rob people of their money : 1) I Think they might be full of shit;
2) They always try to get the poor caller to waste as much time as possible keeping the phone up so
they pay more.
There are at least 7 guys that keep popping up during the show to ''help humanity'' , reiki masters , people who apparently studied under some Lama in Nepal (?!?) , some have more than a decade study in the field of numerology , astronomers , one even claims to be choosen by God( the abrahamic one of course);
Now , there is no problem with ''masters of their craft'' to help other people for a seemingly high price, if they are telling the truth , then their skills are insane! .
BUT
The longest tarot reading I saw them do was around 20s (including the shuffling of the cards) , of course it wasn't a single card draw . Now, I may have never done a reading of any kind but according to my knowledge a proper reading of one card should take at least a couple of minutes .
Something intresting to note , everybody who calls is apparently cursed or was affected by bad-eye. In that case, the magus just asks for the caller's name and birth date , writes it down on a piece of paper and , depending on which one is at the desk, the piece of paper is either burned , tied in a knot , or thrown in a vase , Then the curse is off , they have the same ease with ''extremely malicious'' curses as well.
You might say , ''yes, but those seem to be proper spells'' , yes , they seem to be , but they talk about random stuff while doing it , laugh and smile and they just don't seem to be serious. They can also heal you , some members on this forum also claim that they can do that , neglecting the distance and just following the energy print of the person.
After they are done , they automaticlly redirect the caller to their station (off the live show) where they keep him for like 30 minutes! to get ''deffence'' and other stuff... After a quick call , the pay can go up tp 50 euros ... for what may be nothing....
What do you think?

Ohh, I forgot the threat.

[Frumens]

Well from the way you describe them they certainly sound fake. There's nothing wrong with selling occult services, but I feel like there's an inverse relationship between popularity and authenticity. It's illegal to sell occult services where I live for anything other than "entertainment."

[Matrozs]

Well from the way you describe them they certainly sound fake. There's nothing wrong with selling occult services, but I feel like there's an inverse relationship between popularity and authenticity. It's illegal to sell occult services where I live for anything other than "entertainment."

In my country there is a tax on black magick ...

[PoisonPen]

I do tarot readings on the street for extra cash on a little folding table, but I feel ethically obliged to explain how tarot works to every querent. I don't have magic powers, I'm not psychic, and I don't commune with spirits. I take advantage of apophenia -- the tendency for human beings to project patterns from their own subconscious onto things which have no pattern inherent in them -- to paint half a picture with the cards, then allow them to paint the other half without realizing they're doing it. I'm not really reading the cards; I'm reading them with cold reading, the method phony psychics use to pick up information about people without them being aware that they're doing it by taking advantage of confirmation bias and psychoanalytic reflection. I'm very good at what I do because I'm an intuitive and I've spent years practising shamanic techniques and Jungian active imagination exercises to train my subconscious into picking up cues from the querent's body language, words choices, eye movements, and facial expressions to zero in on a more and more accurate narrative built up from the cards as I go through the reading.

It takes me anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour to do a full ten-card weave. A three-card weave takes about 10-15 minutes. And the querent has to be right in front of me for me to be able to be able to read them properly. I can almost guarantee that these guys are not only phonies, but bad ones.

[Matrozs]

Intresting, thanks for the info

[Sypheara]

I have an entirely different perspective to give to PoisonPen, but one that has pretty much the same conclusion.

When i read for people, I am using a mix of intuition, book understanding of symbology, personal understanding, and guidance from the Spirits and Gods to give the most accurate reading possible, to help answer their questions. Ie trying to reveal, and giving them power in a way to alter their 'wyrd' for lack of a better term that escapes me at the moment.

As such, I see what im doing as HIGHLY serious. By revealing their potential possible futures to them, even by that act, it changes what that future could be. This could have NEGATIVE consequences if done poorly, for both myself and them.

I think its possible, to be done remotely, but is much more difficult. Either way, it has to be a ONE to ONE relationship - as PoisonPen states, a large reading would take me anywhere up to 30 minutes to and hour and a half to explore all the possibilities face to face, several days over something like email. Three card readings, up to 30 minutes.

I do not currently charge for this. If i was to do so, to make money on the side, an hour and a half of my time would be costed probably in the region of £25 to £30 at the absolute most. This would come with me having added additional time (free) on top of this to explain my methodology, my belief of how the method works, but also telling the client that at the end of the day, it is nothing but advice, and that for serious medical, financial etc problems, it should be a supplement to working with a qualified professional in that field of concern, not a substitute, for both safety and moral / legal reasons when it comes to myself.

ANYONE who is trying to knock out sheer volume of 'sessions' just to rip off customers is not only revealing themselves as an immoral person by preying on the vulnerable, but also carrying out sheer bad business practice. They are also due to this offering an inferior and ineffective service. I wouldn't give them any of your time, or money - 'automatic' tarot generators are probably more effective than they are [thumbup] .

[Matrozs]

Thanks, Sypheara,

- 'automatic' tarot generators are probably more effective than they are

Hah! , I wonder what they would say if somebody would call and tell them that [wink]

[PoisonPen]

I do not currently charge for this.

As an aside, I just wanted to say that I think it's very important to charge something for a reading. People don't value things unless they've made a sacrifice for it. We learn this over and over through folklore and religion, whether it's Yeshua hanging from the cross to achieve apotheosis or Woden exchanging his eye for wisdom at the Well of Knowledge. Accepting payment for a reading also super-charges your abilities through suggestion. We put pennies on corpses' eyes so the dead have money to pay Charon to take them across the river Styx to the land of the dead. Without that payment Charon is not obliged to do anything, but once he accepts payment he becomes bound by sacred contract. When you accept payment for a reading, you become bound by that same contract; you must give your best possible effort, and may neither conceal nor fabricate without dire consequences to yourself as an oath-breaker. I don't have a set payment, but rather work by donation. If a person has no money, I'll accept anything as payment so long as they'll miss whatever it is they're giving me. I've had people pay me with everything from chocolate bars to Bibles. If a person has absolutely nothing else, I'll pull out a knife and accept a lock of their hair as payment.

[Haelos]

I disagree with charging money for anything, most especially occult services.
It is not your job to make someone appreciate your tarot reading, it is only your job to give it to them if they ask.

[Haelos]

I'm very good at what I do because I'm an intuitive and I've spent years practising shamanic techniques and Jungian active imagination exercises to train my subconscious into picking....

I apologize, and I don't mean to suddenly call you out over something that may well have been a typo, but I really hope you weren't using that as a noun..
To claim that you are intuitive is one thing, to claim that your intuitiveness is what you are is just ridiculous.

[Haelos]

If a person has absolutely nothing else, I'll pull out a knife and accept a lock of their hair as payment.

I really should read before I post. This will be my last triple post ever, I swear.

People really should be careful when bartering with witches. A lock of my hair is the last thing I would give someone like you in the position of having so little else to give. I'm not even going to ask what you do with that hair. You ma use it only for good intent. The point is, you have it to use, and it's a well known fact that human matter makes for much better binding than visualization and conception alone.

I can admit though, I would receive a lock of someone's hair as payment for almost anything.

[PoisonPen]

I apologize, and I don't mean to suddenly call you out over something that may well have been a typo, but I really hope you weren't using that as a noun..
To claim that you are intuitive is one thing, to claim that your intuitiveness is what you are is just ridiculous.

I don't identify as a magician, a witch, or a psychic. What abilities I have derive from interfacing with the subconscious, which is why I identify as an intuitive. I probably differ from most people here in that I regard the occult as purely internal, a way of visualizating the cognitive processes below the level of consciousness. To put it another way, there's nothing magical about magic; the gods are atavistic personifications of archetypal personality traits. By identifying as an intuitive, I try to make it clear that nothing I do is "supernatural."

[Haelos]

I apologize, and I don't mean to suddenly call you out over something that may well have been a typo, but I really hope you weren't using that as a noun..
To claim that you are intuitive is one thing, to claim that your intuitiveness is what you are is just ridiculous.

I don't identify as a magician, a witch, or a psychic. What abilities I have derive from interfacing with the subconscious, which is why I identify as an intuitive. I probably differ from most people here in that I regard the occult as purely internal, a way of visualizating the cognitive processes below the level of consciousness. To put it another way, there's nothing magical about magic; the gods are atavistic personifications of archetypal personality traits. By identifying as an intuitive, I try to make it clear that nothing I do is "supernatural."

That's a fair enough claim, but most of us here don't see magick as anything supernatural or uncommon.
To be quite specific in my thoughts, any intentional action is one of performing magick. A claim very similar to your own, just worded very different.
It really doesn't matter the term you use. I was just set back by that, as most people I've known who project similar ideas do not claim any title for themselves. I don't like your choice of word, but I'm not here to tell you not to use it.

Thank you quite kindly for offering the life perspective from the eyes of another mage (mage is what I call anyone who even remotely projects inwards to feel outward, and you fall in that category. A mere matter of preference. People are intriguing)