When should we be using magic.

[Lucius]

Hi all.

Haven't been posting much the last couple of weeks, I'm actually in Greece for a case.

However, I have been thinking for the past couple of weeks about this topic- let me posit this question.

When should we use magic? What are the consequences to those around us when we do cast?

I wrote an article about this on my blog, I want to start this discussion as I am neutral at the moment and am very keen to hear people's thoughts on this issue.

Thanks and again- not trying to spam my blog I rarely link posts here.

Thanks and I look forward to hearing your thoughts!

(https://addictedtothememories.wordpress ... unity-now/)



Lucius.

[cyberdemon]

As a demonlogist, I prefer to save magick for emergencies like a bit of a boost in a pinch.

[RaineAshford]

When it purifies something in existence to paradisal or it gives pleasure in it's cast.

[RoseRed]

Even factoring in my 6 years experience in the “magus”, I myself am still conflicted on this issue which strikes to the very core of my practice.

Those are not words of neutrality, darling. There are quite a few sweeping generalities but they're pretty much spot on in a stereotypical way.

This caught my attention:

For too long the magical community in the recent time has been focussing on what we can do with magic- and as scientists do we push the boundaries on innovation, to help our fellow man by innovating and finding new ways to use magic to achieve our goals- and that’s fantastic. However our actions have consequences and with the power we have between our 2 hands we have not left much room in our minds to consider whether we should be doing what we do, as much as we do

.

Speak for yourself, kiddo. We hang out with different people in the magical community.

Try telling a chaos mage to not push the boundaries. Ask a witch about his/her first run in with collateral damage. Talk to older practitioners who no longer wield magic for every little thing.

[Shinichi]

I view this issue the same way I view the "when should I use my Martial Arts?" issue. I have detailed knowledge of how to harm a human being, and I have the skill and will to use that knowledge given the need. But what is the need given? Am I going to join my local fight clubs, get into brawls and become a street warrior? Probably not. If I walk past an ally and see someone getting raped, am I going to beat the hell out of the rapist? Without a second thought.

It's the same with Magick. With any skill set, really. How you use your personal skills is an issue of personal choice and personal responsibility. Inaction has consequences just as much as any action, so I think it's better to just know your walk and walk your talk.



~:Shin:~

[magari]

Based on my understanding,

You cant exactly turn it off.

[Shinichi]

No, you can't "turn it off," but you can choose when to throw it around. Like the MA analogy. Power is power, and you either have it or you don't, but just because you know how to punch someone doesn't mean you should punch everyone you pass on the street. It also doesn't mean you can't, or shouldn't, use it as you feel you need to.

Personal choice, personal responsibility. Morality is not universal.



~:Shin:~

[magari]

I thought the goal was to never have to punch anyone.

If you have the power that is...

Why bother?

At the very least get someone else to do it for you.

The necessity for violence is much greater when youre weak, even magickal violence.

The opposite of violence is something that we shouod strive to be accomplishing in every moment.

So if youre asking me, use it always.

[magari]

I also agree with taking responsibility.

Very important

[Shinichi]

The necessity for violence is much greater when youre weak, even magickal violence.

This isn't always true. Violence itself is not evil, and its use does not automatically indicate weakness. I touched on this a little with Peace when I wrote it last year.

Think of someone like Chris Kyle. A soldier that killed, according to some claims, hundreds of people counting the "unconfirmed" kills. A man who, according to some, was the deadliest man in U.S. military history. Certainly a man who understood violence, and its occasional necessity. Is it really true to say that he was weak because he was involved in so much violence, or is he a hero among his people because he saved so many of his comrades lives, and more, faced those storms of violence so that ordinary people in his country wouldn't have to? And still yet, to the people he killed, he was just another "american terrorist." Context and perspective.

You can say that a macho teenager with more temperamental brawn than brain is weak and foolish, but that isn't everyone. Like pretty much everything else, violence, magical or otherwise, is a matter of context. And moving back to the general topic, there are many forms of Power. How you choose to use it, or choose not use it as the case may be for some, will change based on the situation.

If you have the power and position to protect someone or help someone, magically or otherwise, would you? Or would you pull a Crowley, and crawl back into your tent? This is something we all must ask ourselves. But that answer, too, will be different in different circumstances. [wink2]



~:Shin:~

[magari]

I'd argue that a man like Chris Kyle was on the path towards nonviolence and we would have seen it if he was allowed to live a bit longer perhaps.

*shrugs*

[magari]

I'm not saying Chris Kyle was not a powerful individual.

Indeed he was.

[Lucius]

Hi all thanks for reading my post and input! I'm very curious to hear more and your responses have really helped me put things into perspective a but but there's probably a ways to go!

Rosered- thanks for your feedback

Speak for yourself, kiddo. We hang out with different people in the magical community.

Try telling a chaos mage to not push the boundaries. Ask a witch about his/her first run in with collateral damage. Talk to older practitioners who no longer wield magic for every little thing.

Maybe you're right- I'd be really keen to hear your perspective of when magic should be used. Because I totally understand where you're coming from about not using it for every little thing however I would posit that if the conversation has not trickled down to the seekers and young magicians such as myself then we're repeating the same mistakes over and over again- which I would say is the opposite of progress and indicative of the problem I was pointing out that we need to talk about this more.

So Rosered what is your view on this? When do you choose to use and not to use magic? I'd be really interested to know as you are far more experienced than myself!

- Shinchi-

I view this issue the same way I view the "when should I use my Martial Arts?" issue. I have detailed knowledge of how to harm a human being, and I have the skill and will to use that knowledge given the need. But what is the need given? Am I going to join my local fight clubs, get into brawls and become a street warrior? Probably not. If I walk past an ally and see someone getting raped, am I going to beat the hell out of the rapist? Without a second thought.

It's the same with Magick. With any skill set, really. How you use your personal skills is an issue of personal choice and personal responsibility. Inaction has consequences just as much as any action, so I think it's better to just know your walk and walk your talk.

I really appreciate that- funnily enough I too practice martial arts, I actually am a black belt in karate and I totally see where you are coming from. I am intrigued to know then, do you use your magic in accordance to any particular code or creed?

- Magari- it's nice to hear the other side of the argument (at last hahaha) and indeed it is a valid point. If our use of magic avoids violence why not use it etc.?
I would be interested to know, did you have this opinon from the start or did something change your mind? If so what? Tell me a story! :p

Thanks guys for all your responses and recognition- I look forward ti reading more view points and when I have enough data, presenting a finding of the community's stand point as a whole!

Lucius- in sunny sunny paradise!

[Shinichi]

I really appreciate that- funnily enough I too practice martial arts, I actually am a black belt in karate and I totally see where you are coming from. I am intrigued to know then, do you use your magic in accordance to any particular code or creed?

Not a code or creed, per se, because honor isn't a list of words. It's a substantial force, something you either have or you don't. However, part of my own magical training involved developing honor, along with similar development. At the end of the day, it's very simple. If I wouldn't punch someone physically, then I probably won't punch them magically. If I would stay quiet and walk away physically, I'd probably stay quiet and walk away magically. And vice versa to all of that. You don't need a code for this. What decisions you would make in a given situation is simply part of who you are. If your nearby when a shooting happens like all those in recent news, would you run away or run forward to help people? If someone is attacking your family, would you run and hide to avoid the attacks and save yourself and remain a pacifist, or charge in to save them? If you're asked to join a fight club where you get $10,000 every time you win, would you take the money or walk away to avoid violence?

These are questions you can't answer honestly until you've faced the challenge and made your instinctive choice. They are opportunities of circumstance. Whether you behave honorably or not isn't dependent on a code, it's dependent on how you choose to think and live and be. Personal choice and personal responsibility. So no, I don't have a particular code or creed. [wink2]



~:Shin:~

[Desecrated]

Whenever I feel like it.

[Caerdon]

The question of the topic is an intriguing one for sure. "When should we be using magic?" I'd love to say some nice insightful words of wisdom here, but frankly I use magic every day without a second thought (for the most part). Granted it's nothing major most of the time, but magic is too much a part of me and my life to not use it. After all, what's the point of having something or being able to do something without utilizing it?
However, I do not believe it should be used indiscriminately either.
i treat it like owning a sword. Good to show people who appreciate them and are into them, always wise to practice with it and keep mastering using it and your skills, however not so good to start swinging it around without a care, especially around other people who might get hurt. (Not the best metaphor, but you get the gist)
Basically, my opinion is that you should take care once it involves affecting other people. Other than that, go nuts and experiment [yay]

[Lucius]

The question of the topic is an intriguing one for sure. "When should we be using magic?" I'd love to say some nice insightful words of wisdom here, but frankly I use magic every day without a second thought (for the most part). Granted it's nothing major most of the time, but magic is too much a part of me and my life to not use it. After all, what's the point of having something or being able to do something without utilizing it?
However, I do not believe it should be used indiscriminately either.
i treat it like owning a sword. Good to show people who appreciate them and are into them, always wise to practice with it and keep mastering using it and your skills, however not so good to start swinging it around without a care, especially around other people who might get hurt. (Not the best metaphor, but you get the gist)
Basically, my opinion is that you should take care once it involves affecting other people. Other than that, go nuts and experiment [yay]

See I have a similar mentality in truth, we have this power why not use it?

I actually think your metaphor is a pretty good one, however my point is whenever we cast a spell we are effectively swinging the sword and we never know if we are surrounded by people or not- to keep the analogy going. I think the point I am making is, obviously we are still going to use magic we are after all magicians, however we should think more carefully about the implications of it

[RoseRed]

You better fucking know what's around you when you swing that sword. Anything less is just plain irresponsible. I'm shocked that you wrote that. You may be wickedly talented but you're still young. That comes with its own specific set of problems. You don't have the luxury of 20 years to catch up to your abilities.

[Hadit]

It's impossible for conscious human beings to not do magic.

[magari]

It's impossible for conscious human beings to not do magic.

I agree

[Sypheara]

Wish I did.. not to use a derogatory term or the additional baggage it comes wth..

But I really do believe that the Gnostics were right with their classification system, if not with their deductions they slapped on top of it.

I have seen many so called hylics that couldnt work even the simplest magick. These are people who dont have the ability nor will to take one step out of their own ignorance, and without some heavy transmutation work to change their soul nature, rank even below certain animals or plants in the magickal order.

This isn't a popular theory, neither is it one that I take lightly, but it is the one i've seen on the ground. It is irrespective of race, religion, or creed.

[Maya The Generator]

I think we should not ask when...

Are you ready to take responisibility for your doings? If yes, do what you want to do.

Every other aspect is your personal morality.

What will your action give you or take away from you is for you to decide.

If asked when I would answer like many others: When I feel like it and every moment of my life. [tongue]

[Lucius]

You better fucking know what's around you when you swing that sword. Anything less is just plain irresponsible. I'm shocked that you wrote that. You may be wickedly talented but you're still young. That comes with its own specific set of problems. You don't have the luxury of 20 years to catch up to your abilities.

Just gonna ignore that entirely... Rosered that is exactly the point I was making... You seem to be totally obsessed with my age, or lack thereof

No more need be said- Swiftly moving on [shh] [thumbup] [gz]
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Thanks for your further responses everyone!

It's impossible for conscious human beings to not do magic.

Hadit I think you've hit the nail on the head right there! I seem to recall a saying I heard once, maybe I saw it on Facebook a while ago I dunno but it went sort of like this.

"You get 2 kinds of people in this world, people who say they can't and people who say they can- both are generally correct"

[RoseRed]

No, not obsessed but you seem to think the decades of time mean nothing. There is nothing wrong with being young but don't put on a good show here and flake out like a teenager when asked to do your self declared Duty as a captain exorcist.

The life experience that comes from that is not something that can be replaced by raw talent. It's a specific set of problems that you go on about in your blog post. You're too sensitive to not take offense and I'm too frustrated with you to continue this. I hope you find your answers before you need them.

[Shinichi]

You better fucking know what's around you when you swing that sword. Anything less is just plain irresponsible. I'm shocked that you wrote that. You may be wickedly talented but you're still young. That comes with its own specific set of problems. You don't have the luxury of 20 years to catch up to your abilities.

Just gonna ignore that entirely... Rosered that is exactly the point I was making... You seem to be totally obsessed with my age, or lack thereof

Age has nothing to do with Skill or Wisdom, but it has a lot to do with Experience. I'm not that much older than you, and I completely agree with RR. Magick very much can be aimed and controlled, and an experienced practitioner can very easily look around, even look into the future, and understand within certain parameters exactly what will happen when you "swing the sword." If you don't know how to read the environment and Target your spells, then you best not be casting them.

You have a very over simplified and romanticized view of what Magick is and how it works. Real life is a lot more complicated than some of what you have said, which only displays Youth and Inexperience - and this isn't bad, it just is, because growing up and learning is something that everyone has to do in every field of study as well as life in general. And Magick is a field of study, not something "everyone is born" with. Consider the statement "we are all born Martial Artists." As someone who put in several years of hard work to get a black belt, do you think that is a fair statement?

Magick is a specific collection of Knowledge and Skills that must be learned and applied through active training and experience. Some people are born with a great aptitude for athletics, but that aptitude must still be refined through active training, coaching, and experience before talent is realized as practical skill. Magick is no different, nor is any other field. Science, Mathematics, Astronomy, Literature, History, Physics - Magick. No one is born to any of these things, and everyone must put in fair effort (no matter how talented) to earn progress in any field.

Age is not a full measure of Wisdom or even Experience, but Experience does accumulate when you actively participate in something for several years. Do you think you will be a stronger black belt after training ten more years? Do you think that time invested has nothing to do with the development of your skill? Do you think your Sensei is martially equal to you?

Then, think very carefully about how that applies to Magick. Think very carefully about what RR said, instead of absently ignoring it like a typical Youth who hears something disagreeable (as a fellow Youth myself, trust me, that makes us all look bad). There is a lot to learn from our Elders, and if you are too uptight about and obsessed with your own youthfulness (because you do seem to be) to simply accept that and move on, then you're going to miss out on a lot and have to learn some big lessons in very hard ways. Having friends who are Elders and Mentors can come in very handy when you get in a pinch. Trust me. [wink2]



~:Shin:~