As far as external, exoteric “magicK” goes, I sure as hell don’t have it. I don’t like ceremonies, sigils, I don’t go for the whole “change in accordance with will” definition of mainstream magick. Maybe this is just my own rationalization for being a failed occultist, but there are several reasons I disagree. Most of these reasons include the fact that I cause willful change every day, it simply doesn’t come off as magick. I know myself, I can communicate with my “HGA”, I know my correspondences, I am able to manipulate symbolic systems (chaos magick), it simply is something ever non-magician I know is capable of as well.
This is not my main point, though. No matter how successful my magick becomes, I find what I call the Robin Williams Paradox. No matter how successful it is, life is always still out of control. Currently I’ve been feeling that this is where magic “truly” exists in a “spiritual” sense. Part of that, I think, is accepting one’s position, learning to adjust to the new “normal” and understand “abnormalities” relative to that. Fuck, I use too many quotation marks.
But tonight is the worst. I mean things have been pretty bad lately, about a week ago was the first time in my whole depressed life, through many bad times and even addiction, where I had a plan to end it. Yet as I said, my life is only getting more and more successful, the Robin Williams Paradox. The thing is, internal, “spiritual”, “empathetic” magic does not do the job either. I have lots of practices with different meditations, vibrations, and so on. Now obviously one can always be better, but my point is nothing helps.
This further makes me wonder if “true” magic is, itself completely beyond our manipulation. Maybe it is experience only, and no matter what that experience is, it has no direct effect on life. This makes magic an optional choice, and something separate from other fields such as psychology, physics, etc. It is purely the chaos as opposed to the order.
Damn, I have no idea if my point is that we’re all looking at magic wrong, or just to go on a depressive rant. Respond as desired.
Some Rambling Thoughts
Some Rambling Thoughts
Beloved of Set
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ThyNegative
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Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
there is no wrong, there is no right. you seem to not be able to believe what you don't have evidence for. that's means you prefer logic more to believing.
however , there was a time that every one thought that earth is flat!. there was a time were nobody could've fly. nobody knew about electric fields. even till now, the electric field is only a force that we know applies to one coulomb electrostatic charge. there could be theories behind this forces, but they change buy time. to a man that doesn't know about them they may seem like magick.
and we don't know what the future holds.
people are usually open minded till they dedicate them self to a belief.
i am not open minded but still don't deny evidence and have a adaptive mind.I chose to not be open minded, because I am risking my everything on my occult researching to find what suits my fantasies and i need to put my full focus on it.
because i think that people don't try hard enough, they chose to not risk and go slow. till they, well... they will die eventually.
you are admitting of not knowing what you don't know, but you are not obsessed with valuing your experience above all and you don't let your past experience to blind you. well that is something that i don't hate. with having this "anti islamic" executor muslims all around me.i can say not hating something for me is a rare thing.
and also, humans didn't believe that something as powerful as a nuclear bomb could even exist till it scared the s*** out of them.
however , there was a time that every one thought that earth is flat!. there was a time were nobody could've fly. nobody knew about electric fields. even till now, the electric field is only a force that we know applies to one coulomb electrostatic charge. there could be theories behind this forces, but they change buy time. to a man that doesn't know about them they may seem like magick.
and we don't know what the future holds.
people are usually open minded till they dedicate them self to a belief.
i am not open minded but still don't deny evidence and have a adaptive mind.I chose to not be open minded, because I am risking my everything on my occult researching to find what suits my fantasies and i need to put my full focus on it.
because i think that people don't try hard enough, they chose to not risk and go slow. till they, well... they will die eventually.
you are admitting of not knowing what you don't know, but you are not obsessed with valuing your experience above all and you don't let your past experience to blind you. well that is something that i don't hate. with having this "anti islamic" executor muslims all around me.i can say not hating something for me is a rare thing.
and also, humans didn't believe that something as powerful as a nuclear bomb could even exist till it scared the s*** out of them.
your doooommd, aha aha ahahahahahaha
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ErebusNamtar
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Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
I do not think these are depressive ramblings.
Okay here follow my own crazy theories so by all means take a big pinch of salt! [lol]
I think that in life we do not control much, if anything. There will always be randomness and I have, for myself, come to the conclusion life as we expect it to be is a lie. Order and cause-effect is a lie we tell ourselves so our brains can deal with bad stuff happening. It's why we create mythologies and other tales.
I believe very much in the ancient Chaoskampf mythologies where Chaos is a primordial state from which everything comes and to retain Order/Creation we are constantly struggling with the way the universe was(and basically still is). Order is an ill-fitting template we try to enforce on a Chaotic universe. Like pushing a big square block into a small round hole.
Our modern mythologies are too clockwork-perfect. The old mythologies were far more logical. I believe we truly threw out the baby with the bathwater when we started believing one deity created everything. Creatio ex nihilo.
In my ritual workings I used to go through enormous amounts of energy because I was being an enforcer, not a practitioner, and got little in return. Nowadays I spend very little energy and see big changes happening. But yes, random things still happen and it's not as easy saying it is "karma" or a "balancing factor" at work. It's just too random for that and I really do not believe that.
Magic IS somewhat above us, especially if we expect nice cause-and-effect results. To get precisely what we wanted would be an immense undertaking. I mean if some practitioners or occultists are truly so great at their Art as they claim they are why aren't all of them succesfull billionaires and immortalenergetic beings by now? It's because we are fighting against a natural order. Chaos is, paradoxically, the natural order.
Everything being said, I do think magic has an effect on life and is a very effective tool. It's just not point and click.
I do not think you are a failed occultist, far from it. I think you are on the right path as you are willing to question and discuss with others when things are not like in the textbook.
Okay here follow my own crazy theories so by all means take a big pinch of salt! [lol]
I think that in life we do not control much, if anything. There will always be randomness and I have, for myself, come to the conclusion life as we expect it to be is a lie. Order and cause-effect is a lie we tell ourselves so our brains can deal with bad stuff happening. It's why we create mythologies and other tales.
I believe very much in the ancient Chaoskampf mythologies where Chaos is a primordial state from which everything comes and to retain Order/Creation we are constantly struggling with the way the universe was(and basically still is). Order is an ill-fitting template we try to enforce on a Chaotic universe. Like pushing a big square block into a small round hole.
Our modern mythologies are too clockwork-perfect. The old mythologies were far more logical. I believe we truly threw out the baby with the bathwater when we started believing one deity created everything. Creatio ex nihilo.
In my ritual workings I used to go through enormous amounts of energy because I was being an enforcer, not a practitioner, and got little in return. Nowadays I spend very little energy and see big changes happening. But yes, random things still happen and it's not as easy saying it is "karma" or a "balancing factor" at work. It's just too random for that and I really do not believe that.
Magic IS somewhat above us, especially if we expect nice cause-and-effect results. To get precisely what we wanted would be an immense undertaking. I mean if some practitioners or occultists are truly so great at their Art as they claim they are why aren't all of them succesfull billionaires and immortalenergetic beings by now? It's because we are fighting against a natural order. Chaos is, paradoxically, the natural order.
Everything being said, I do think magic has an effect on life and is a very effective tool. It's just not point and click.
I do not think you are a failed occultist, far from it. I think you are on the right path as you are willing to question and discuss with others when things are not like in the textbook.
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ThyNegative
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Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
tell me, how much auric sight you have achieved till now?
your doooommd, aha aha ahahahahahaha
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ThyNegative
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Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
hadit, you said you practiced a lot, then probably you will be able to see something like this. i do not know if normal people see it or not.put something with a dark color with a white background with no shadows on it, when you put something really close to your eye , doesn't matter what it is, it's aura does the job and projects a false aura image like this:
tell me if you saw a similar effect. ( well not with this stupid quality)
if you can't then that's a shame.
tell me if you saw a similar effect. ( well not with this stupid quality)
if you can't then that's a shame.
- Attachments
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your doooommd, aha aha ahahahahahaha
Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
Hello Hadit
I'm really sorry you've reached such a low point. I know how that feels. First and most importantly, have you told your doctor/therapist and loved ones that you've been feeling suicidal?
If I understand you correctly, the nub of your dilemma is a serious disconnect between your circumstances and your mood, almost to the point where there's an inverse relationship, and that nothing, including magick, is making any difference. Is that an accurate summary?
When my mood is low I find it very difficult to access magick and it's always so frustrating that my abilities wane when I most need them. I hope others here who are more experienced practitioners will be able to make suggestions about the magick aspect of your situation.
Turning to the mundane, a couple of thoughts come to mind about what sounds like treatment-resistant depression (from what you say about your history I'm assuming you've tried most of the standard approaches). Firstly, has your GP tested you for a thyroid problem? If so, great that that's been eliminated, if not get them to do so, as a thyroid imbalance can cause major depression that no level of improvement in life circumstances is going to lift.
You say you have been depressed most of your life. I may be way off beam here, but your description of 'the better it gets, the worse I feel' is not uncommon in people who experienced trauma as children, particularly if the trauma started before they learned to speak. Even mainstream psych docs are coming round to the idea that trauma can become trapped in the body at a cellular level, constantly and subconsciously re-triggering fearful and desperate thoughts. In fact, there is evidence that 'talk therapy' can make things worse rather than better in these circumstances. If this resonates with you I highly recommend you check out Pat Ogden's work on Sensorimotor training. There are also some interesting and very informative articles by a psychologist called Pete Walker at pete.walker.com.
If you've ruled out thyroid or other physical cause and the early life trauma possibility, the next thing I'd consider doing is obtaining my genetic profile from 23andme and checking for genes (particularly the COMT and MAO genes) that are known to play havoc with neurotransmitter levels. This is an emerging field and it can take a lot of research to work out your own personal jigsaw puzzle. The good news is that these problematic genes can be 'silenced' by certain lifestyle changes. If you're interested in learning more, check out Dr Ben Lynch's excellent site at www.seekinghealth.org. Dr Andrew Rostenburg also has some useful downloads and Youtube videos.
I hope you're having a better day today. Treatment resistant depression is one of the most painful and debilitating illnesses
in existence (see Stanford's Dr Robert Sapolsky's fantastic lecture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIcf-2AFHgw) but there are new ways of approaching it that few GPs educate themselves on. And you are not ranting, you are reaching out, and that is a brave and healthy thing to do.
I'm really sorry you've reached such a low point. I know how that feels. First and most importantly, have you told your doctor/therapist and loved ones that you've been feeling suicidal?
If I understand you correctly, the nub of your dilemma is a serious disconnect between your circumstances and your mood, almost to the point where there's an inverse relationship, and that nothing, including magick, is making any difference. Is that an accurate summary?
When my mood is low I find it very difficult to access magick and it's always so frustrating that my abilities wane when I most need them. I hope others here who are more experienced practitioners will be able to make suggestions about the magick aspect of your situation.
Turning to the mundane, a couple of thoughts come to mind about what sounds like treatment-resistant depression (from what you say about your history I'm assuming you've tried most of the standard approaches). Firstly, has your GP tested you for a thyroid problem? If so, great that that's been eliminated, if not get them to do so, as a thyroid imbalance can cause major depression that no level of improvement in life circumstances is going to lift.
You say you have been depressed most of your life. I may be way off beam here, but your description of 'the better it gets, the worse I feel' is not uncommon in people who experienced trauma as children, particularly if the trauma started before they learned to speak. Even mainstream psych docs are coming round to the idea that trauma can become trapped in the body at a cellular level, constantly and subconsciously re-triggering fearful and desperate thoughts. In fact, there is evidence that 'talk therapy' can make things worse rather than better in these circumstances. If this resonates with you I highly recommend you check out Pat Ogden's work on Sensorimotor training. There are also some interesting and very informative articles by a psychologist called Pete Walker at pete.walker.com.
If you've ruled out thyroid or other physical cause and the early life trauma possibility, the next thing I'd consider doing is obtaining my genetic profile from 23andme and checking for genes (particularly the COMT and MAO genes) that are known to play havoc with neurotransmitter levels. This is an emerging field and it can take a lot of research to work out your own personal jigsaw puzzle. The good news is that these problematic genes can be 'silenced' by certain lifestyle changes. If you're interested in learning more, check out Dr Ben Lynch's excellent site at www.seekinghealth.org. Dr Andrew Rostenburg also has some useful downloads and Youtube videos.
I hope you're having a better day today. Treatment resistant depression is one of the most painful and debilitating illnesses
in existence (see Stanford's Dr Robert Sapolsky's fantastic lecture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIcf-2AFHgw) but there are new ways of approaching it that few GPs educate themselves on. And you are not ranting, you are reaching out, and that is a brave and healthy thing to do.
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Nahemah
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Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
What hellebore says x 1000.
Also, the expectations many people put upon magick are too high, for numerous reasons too long to list.
This forum has a long list of topics where the disconnect between expectation and outcome has seriously affected magickians.
Sometimes that is because of folk thinking they can affect other people without the other people reacting in turn, but even the most non magickal of folk will take steps to protect themselves when things go wrong for them and this must be accounted for, in my opinion, if you are going to perform workings that have causal effects in 'the real world'.
I am in danger of rambling here myself, but as someone who has been suicidal multiple times in the past and who still deals with suicidal and intrusive thoughts on a regular basis, no matter how well things might be going for me, I feel for you and I hope I can understand, at least a little.
Often it is the case that trauma will return to smack you in the face, just when everything seems peachy. Again, referring back to hellebore's post here, I think it's a wise thing to consider here.
I'm available to talk by pm, if you want to, I might not be able to solve your issues but sometimes just venting can be a great release.
Wishing you well and keeping you in my thoughts, Hadit.
Also, the expectations many people put upon magick are too high, for numerous reasons too long to list.
This forum has a long list of topics where the disconnect between expectation and outcome has seriously affected magickians.
Sometimes that is because of folk thinking they can affect other people without the other people reacting in turn, but even the most non magickal of folk will take steps to protect themselves when things go wrong for them and this must be accounted for, in my opinion, if you are going to perform workings that have causal effects in 'the real world'.
I am in danger of rambling here myself, but as someone who has been suicidal multiple times in the past and who still deals with suicidal and intrusive thoughts on a regular basis, no matter how well things might be going for me, I feel for you and I hope I can understand, at least a little.
Often it is the case that trauma will return to smack you in the face, just when everything seems peachy. Again, referring back to hellebore's post here, I think it's a wise thing to consider here.
I'm available to talk by pm, if you want to, I might not be able to solve your issues but sometimes just venting can be a great release.
Wishing you well and keeping you in my thoughts, Hadit.
"He lived his words, spoke his own actions and his story and the story of the world ran parallel."
Sartre speaking of Che Guevara.
Sartre speaking of Che Guevara.
Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
I think your feelings are probably very common, and I think Buddhism sums it up well in their philosophy that "all life is suffering" which really means that no matter what you get or achieve you will always be dissatisfied because worldly success is never truly satisfying in the long term. The Dissatisfied Over Achiever is a well-documented state. Whilst I wouldn't put myself in that category, it's fair to say I've achieved far more in life than anyone ever expected me to, yet I have always felt that it wasn't enough or that I somehow hadn't really earned or deserved it.
And I too can also speak from experiences with depression. My antidote is to force myself into physical activity because I know that the exercise will release endorphins and will lift my mood. I believe forcing myself to go running when all I want to do is curl up into a ball is "a conscious act of will" and is every bit a piece of magick as say, a Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram. Plus outdoor running on a nearby nature trail allows me to commune with nature to a degree and this too is a part of magick.
And I too can also speak from experiences with depression. My antidote is to force myself into physical activity because I know that the exercise will release endorphins and will lift my mood. I believe forcing myself to go running when all I want to do is curl up into a ball is "a conscious act of will" and is every bit a piece of magick as say, a Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram. Plus outdoor running on a nearby nature trail allows me to commune with nature to a degree and this too is a part of magick.
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Cybernetic_Jazz
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Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
Hadit, for what it's worth my life started with being pressed between a neurological disability and not just no government support for it but active misunderstanding by the public at large that all manifestations of it are character flaws that I need to just be roundly beaten for (its tantamount to people in wheelchairs needing to sow wide kilts to completely obscure their chair, actively avow to people that they just enjoy crouching down, that they're weird, having to take tongue-lashings for not doing things that they don't have the legs to do if called on, and getting thrown off a rock it so much as a glint of metal under that kilt shows). There's no effort I can make to correct certain aspects of it, I've lead a life of trying to fix as much as I could, accommodate by trimming back options where I couldn't, and I still feel like the constraints are tightening to where it could still blow up in personal cataclysm no matter how responsibly I played my cards.
There's some likelihood, if things are going well one of these days and after posting prolifically I'm gone for close to a month that I'm in the obituaries somewhere. There's a point I think where a person can survive getting beaten with stamps and there's a point after which suicide could almost become an involuntary action, especially if the right psychopath or unthinking greaseball made it a point to verbally decimate them while they're ears are already ringing. I hope it never goes that way but I know that I have certain buttons (biggest one my viability in the work world) that if they get pushed the right way I truthfully don't have any answers as to whether I'd still be around 24 hours later. I do talk to a psychologist but it's one of those things where this isn't a chemical imbalance, it's not a personality disorder, anyone I talk to professionally about it avoids that side of the topic because they seem to know that I'm giving it all I have, and it's something closer to an ontological cheese-grater to where no one in my life, no matter how much they care about me, really feels like they can say anything on it. Being the best person I can be, while not worthless, doesn't remedy the problem and giving things my best gives me the ability to keep myself alive albeit again I don't know the answer as to whether this tunnel I've been in will open up to an open space or whether it'll tighten until I'm a mess dripping down the insides of it.
I hope I don't scare anyone too much by sharing that, just that back at hadit - just figure you're not the only one.
There's some likelihood, if things are going well one of these days and after posting prolifically I'm gone for close to a month that I'm in the obituaries somewhere. There's a point I think where a person can survive getting beaten with stamps and there's a point after which suicide could almost become an involuntary action, especially if the right psychopath or unthinking greaseball made it a point to verbally decimate them while they're ears are already ringing. I hope it never goes that way but I know that I have certain buttons (biggest one my viability in the work world) that if they get pushed the right way I truthfully don't have any answers as to whether I'd still be around 24 hours later. I do talk to a psychologist but it's one of those things where this isn't a chemical imbalance, it's not a personality disorder, anyone I talk to professionally about it avoids that side of the topic because they seem to know that I'm giving it all I have, and it's something closer to an ontological cheese-grater to where no one in my life, no matter how much they care about me, really feels like they can say anything on it. Being the best person I can be, while not worthless, doesn't remedy the problem and giving things my best gives me the ability to keep myself alive albeit again I don't know the answer as to whether this tunnel I've been in will open up to an open space or whether it'll tighten until I'm a mess dripping down the insides of it.
I hope I don't scare anyone too much by sharing that, just that back at hadit - just figure you're not the only one.
You don't have to do a thing perfect, just relentlessly.
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Neko-phyte
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Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
Even if this is not relevant to Hadit's position right now, I just wanted to say this is something I've found to be true--I've been working on releasing some of this via Neuro-Emotional Technique (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro_Emotional_Technique) and it's been working. Talking it out with counsellors did help to a point, but eventually I unearthed rifts separating understanding, which couldn't be crossed.hellebore wrote: Even mainstream psych docs are coming round to the idea that trauma can become trapped in the body at a cellular level, constantly and subconsciously re-triggering fearful and desperate thoughts.
When it comes to chemical imbalances, psyc's only help to a point. All the people I've tried so far mistook it for a personality issue anyway; it was only my chiro who picked up that I had chemical imbalances.Cybernetic_Jazz wrote: I do talk to a psychologist but it's one of those things where this isn't a chemical imbalance, it's not a personality disorder, anyone I talk to professionally about it avoids that side of the topic because they seem to know that I'm giving it all I have, and it's something closer to an ontological cheese-grater to where no one in my life, no matter how much they care about me, really feels like they can say anything on it.
Anyway, now that my 2c is there, I also want to wish Hadit and anyone who is struggling good luck. To keep going despite feeling this terrible is an admirable thing. I offer virtual hugs/cookies/blessings with compassion on top for everyone
(I'm sorry that's not a very beautiful or eloquent way to put it, but...)-
ErebusNamtar
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Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
Might look into that myself. I'm also battling with manic depression and PTSD. The latter is definitely improving with EMDR therapy but the former rears its ugly head every so often.Neko-phyte wrote:I've been working on releasing some of this via Neuro-Emotional Technique (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro_Emotional_Technique) and it's been working. Talking it out with counsellors did help to a point, but eventually I unearthed rifts separating understanding, which couldn't be crossed.
Chocolate chip cookies I hope? [yay]Neko-phyte wrote:I offer virtual hugs/cookies/blessings with compassion on top for everyone
And yes good luck to everyone!
It's just that some thoughts in a state of depression aren't always 'just depressive ramblings'. There might be a core of truth to them, at least that's what my experience is. Once I feel better and stronger I look into them and try and sort them out. True depressive thoughts make no sense whatsoever, it's just that dark cloud that covers everything.
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Neko-phyte
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Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
Of course chocolate chip cookiesErebusNamtar wrote:Might look into that myself. I'm also battling with manic depression and PTSD. The latter is definitely improving with EMDR therapy but the former rears its ugly head every so often.
Chocolate chip cookies I hope? [yay]Neko-phyte wrote:I offer virtual hugs/cookies/blessings with compassion on top for everyone
Good luck to you, and everyone else. [smile]
Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
Thanks for all the posts you guys. Man, I was always so iffy about this forum, now I realize it's another internet based home for me.
Beloved of Set
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the_spiral
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Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
Hey just saw this now. So sorry to hear you're going through a depressive episode. I've dealt with treatment-resistant clinical depression for most of my life and it's an impossible sort of hell to describe to anyone who hasn't experienced it. And it is rarely related to outside circumstances; often the worst episodes hit when life is objectively going well, causing a brutal form of "imposter syndrome." I will say yoga, intensive ancestor work (since the disease runs in my family) and especially Reiki have all been very helpful in doing what Western doctors and medication couldn't.
And for what it's worth, I don't really buy into the "change in accordance with will" definition of magic either. I've always found my magic worked better when I was able to tune in and tap into already existing currents and ride them out through my rituals. Turning the Self into an agent of universal change rather than attempting to bend the universe toward one's own ego-driven desires. Just my little half-baked thought here.
And on another thread you mentioned you are practicing Lovecraftian magick? I assume you're doing lots of grounding and cleansing throughout this work? Because if not, I can see working with those energies exacerbating symptoms of depression. They're not exactly amenable to a healthy functioning human ego.
And for what it's worth, I don't really buy into the "change in accordance with will" definition of magic either. I've always found my magic worked better when I was able to tune in and tap into already existing currents and ride them out through my rituals. Turning the Self into an agent of universal change rather than attempting to bend the universe toward one's own ego-driven desires. Just my little half-baked thought here.
And on another thread you mentioned you are practicing Lovecraftian magick? I assume you're doing lots of grounding and cleansing throughout this work? Because if not, I can see working with those energies exacerbating symptoms of depression. They're not exactly amenable to a healthy functioning human ego.
"Follow the path of the radiant life force as she flashes upward like lightning through your body." - Vijanabhairava Tantra
Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
Hadit and Cyber J, keep kicking, because if you ever do decide to check out, I will get the major sads. 
Mental illness is a piece of shit, to be honest. Keep your doctors in the loop. I love you lots and lots. [crazy]
Mental illness is a piece of shit, to be honest. Keep your doctors in the loop. I love you lots and lots. [crazy]
I think that is very accurate, and at the risk of digressing further, I think that's actually what Crowley meant. I don't remember which book (Magick Without Tears?), but Crowley said that he found accusations of 'black magic' against him hilarious, because he couldn't believe anyone could be so childishly delusional to think that the whims of their ego had any relevance or importance at all, and therefore all 'black magic' is utterly nonsensical and pointless. Importantly (I just checked Magick in Theory and Practice) it is change in conformity with Will - not 'will' - I think there is an important difference to his way of thinking.the_spiral wrote: And for what it's worth, I don't really buy into the "change in accordance with will" definition of magic either. I've always found my magic worked better when I was able to tune in and tap into already existing currents and ride them out through my rituals. Turning the Self into an agent of universal change rather than attempting to bend the universe toward one's own ego-driven desires. Just my little half-baked thought here.
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the_spiral
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Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
Such an important difference, and too often unnoticed by many self-proclaimed "Black Magicians" until it's too late. I think Peter Carroll mentioned in Liber Null that doing heavy magick without first purifying and balancing the ego can bring about premature and disastrous encounters with Choronzon. Yet you have all these people summoning demons to get laid or just for the hell of it because they're bored.Eremita wrote:Importantly (I just checked Magick in Theory and Practice) it is change in conformity with Will - not 'will' - I think there is an important difference to his way of thinking.
"Follow the path of the radiant life force as she flashes upward like lightning through your body." - Vijanabhairava Tantra
Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
It was good to see your post when I checked in today, Hadit. I hope you're feeling in a better place.
I'm comparatively lucky in that although I've never responded to conventional treatment all my depressive episodes have been in reaction to life events. I can't imagine how bewildering it must be to be hit by that black cloud for no obvious reason.
Neko, I tried Neuro-Emotional Technique some years ago and it definitely helped, although the big breakthroughs for me came with Sensorimotor training (which has some similarities) and with getting my genetic profile. It can be hard to track down a good Sensorimotor practitioner but I'd recommend it to anyone whose depression has a PTSD element. Have you found crystals help with your symptoms? If so I'd love to know how you use them and what you've found effective.
Spiral, I completely agree about ancestor work. I'm particularly interested in the concept of inherited traumatic memory. A form of treatment called family constellation therapy is popular on mainland Europe, and anyone who suspects there's an inherited element to their depression might find it interesting to check out Bert Hellinger's work.
So sad hearing everyone's history, but also comforting that none of us is alone in battling this hideous condition. It would be really good to know what other treatments or practices people have found helpful and how depression affects their magickal practice for good or ill.
I'm comparatively lucky in that although I've never responded to conventional treatment all my depressive episodes have been in reaction to life events. I can't imagine how bewildering it must be to be hit by that black cloud for no obvious reason.
Neko, I tried Neuro-Emotional Technique some years ago and it definitely helped, although the big breakthroughs for me came with Sensorimotor training (which has some similarities) and with getting my genetic profile. It can be hard to track down a good Sensorimotor practitioner but I'd recommend it to anyone whose depression has a PTSD element. Have you found crystals help with your symptoms? If so I'd love to know how you use them and what you've found effective.
Spiral, I completely agree about ancestor work. I'm particularly interested in the concept of inherited traumatic memory. A form of treatment called family constellation therapy is popular on mainland Europe, and anyone who suspects there's an inherited element to their depression might find it interesting to check out Bert Hellinger's work.
So sad hearing everyone's history, but also comforting that none of us is alone in battling this hideous condition. It would be really good to know what other treatments or practices people have found helpful and how depression affects their magickal practice for good or ill.
Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
What are the stories that you were told of your lineage? How did your mother and grandmothers before you conquer and survive the adversity that they faced? We have our tests in every life. I come from a Matriarchal family. My Grandmother was my Idol. She was crippled up with severe rheumatoid arthritis and on coumadin so she could only take tylenol. I grew up listening to the family stories, of the fortitude, cunning, real life, nitty gritty struggle of a family that left with the mass exodus out of Europe and settled in a coal mining district.
I was Blessed that my Grandmother gave me the tools to survive. I didn't feel the need to explore any inherited trauma. I was told how they overcame it and what it was. Usually in that order.
I was Blessed that my Grandmother gave me the tools to survive. I didn't feel the need to explore any inherited trauma. I was told how they overcame it and what it was. Usually in that order.
When my wings get tired I grab my broom.
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Neko-phyte
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Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
Oh, I've just read a few articles about it because I didn't know what it was, and that is super interesting. I've actually done some NET (and other kinesiology-related) work on that sensorimotor/"reptilian brain" kind of level before, because it was need of attention. I've cycled through needing to work on all three levels (sensorimotor/"reptilian", emotional/"mamalian", cognitive/"neo-cortex", the reference in quotes being the names that the practice gave), and although most of the work has been on that neo-cortex level, when we were working on the reptilian level it was some particularly powerful stuff.hellebore wrote: Neko, I tried Neuro-Emotional Technique some years ago and it definitely helped, although the big breakthroughs for me came with Sensorimotor training (which has some similarities) and with getting my genetic profile. It can be hard to track down a good Sensorimotor practitioner but I'd recommend it to anyone whose depression has a PTSD element. Have you found crystals help with your symptoms? If so I'd love to know how you use them and what you've found effective.
I've found crystals do help to an extent, but they're not enough in themselves, unless you catch it really early/it's a mild blues to begin with. A powerful citirine is good for mild depression, a dark blue kyanite is good for an anxiety attack starting to rear it's head, and I've also found Ruby in Zoisite to be nice for countering self-doubt. Mangano (Pink) Calcite is good for soothing but I find it needs cleansing more often than a lot of others (just judging by how they all sit idle--it's probably quite the sponge!). I have a Shiva Lingam that has darker rings around it; it almost looks like a swirling pattern. It's nice for grounding and well pretty much anything.
I also personally experience a gravitation towards Iolite and Goldstone. As far as I know, neither contain particular properties for combatting these kinds of things so they're not something I'd recommend to just anybody. But if you are feeling a need for a particular crystal then listen to that need and check it out if you can
I've tried using crystals in full-blown anxiety attacks and major depressive episodes, however. While it's helped take the edge off, it doesn't chase it away entirely. I'm not sure if it's me in my limited ability, or if it's asking too much of the crystals, but that's the experience I've had so far. As far as using them, after going through all the preparation rituals, I'll either channel the energy by holding it in my left (receptive) hand, or placing on the area of the body closest to the related chakra.
Probably the hardest thing for me is remembering to use them--sometimes I get so bad that I forget the help I have surrounding me
even the citrine and kyanite--they're always good to go, and yet I find myself uselessly crumpled somewhere first...Thank you very much for asking about this, I really appreciate it
I get pretty self-conscious because I'm new and a fair bit of my knowledge is based in new age ideas, but it's awesome to know that people want to hear what I know 
Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
I have three perspectives on the paradigm of "magical thinking".Hadit wrote:As far as external, exoteric “magicK” goes, I sure as hell don’t have it. I don’t like ceremonies, sigils, I don’t go for the whole “change in accordance with will” definition of mainstream magick. Maybe this is just my own rationalization for being a failed occultist, but there are several reasons I disagree. Most of these reasons include the fact that I cause willful change every day, it simply doesn’t come off as magick. I know myself, I can communicate with my “HGA”, I know my correspondences, I am able to manipulate symbolic systems (chaos magick), it simply is something ever non-magician I know is capable of as well.
This is not my main point, though. No matter how successful my magick becomes, I find what I call the Robin Williams Paradox. No matter how successful it is, life is always still out of control. Currently I’ve been feeling that this is where magic “truly” exists in a “spiritual” sense. Part of that, I think, is accepting one’s position, learning to adjust to the new “normal” and understand “abnormalities” relative to that. Fuck, I use too many quotation marks.
But tonight is the worst. I mean things have been pretty bad lately, about a week ago was the first time in my whole depressed life, through many bad times and even addiction, where I had a plan to end it. Yet as I said, my life is only getting more and more successful, the Robin Williams Paradox. The thing is, internal, “spiritual”, “empathetic” magic does not do the job either. I have lots of practices with different meditations, vibrations, and so on. Now obviously one can always be better, but my point is nothing helps.
This further makes me wonder if “true” magic is, itself completely beyond our manipulation. Maybe it is experience only, and no matter what that experience is, it has no direct effect on life. This makes magic an optional choice, and something separate from other fields such as psychology, physics, etc. It is purely the chaos as opposed to the order.
Damn, I have no idea if my point is that we’re all looking at magic wrong, or just to go on a depressive rant. Respond as desired.
My first perspective is: Perhaps "magical ideas" are simply symbols for effects that only "technology" and "science" can achieve.
Without imagination, what could we possibly ever have?
Telekinesis is a form of (magical thinking): telekinesis is a symbol for a future technology.
Using wireless technology to bridge the gap between our "brainwaves" or "neural activity" and a computer that analyzes them and then runs a program or command based off the signature of your "brainwave" or "neural activity" .. equals a very powerful and useful technology to be available for everyday applications.
With technology like that, we can come close to making toys or even military weaponry based on "telekinesis".
Or for example, take a look at the magical thinking of "psi spheres" or "energy balls"; we have the technological ability to develop gloves that can generate an electrical sphere by manipulating electromagnetic forces: but of course you nor "I" can visualize how that would be possible, but with the help of engineers, I am sure they can invent something 99% close to the effect we all want to experience with "balls of energy that glow"... e.t.c.
So in other words - my first perspective of the paradigm - "magical ideas" = new technology ideas.
...
My second perspective of the paradigm: "magical ideas or thoughts"; I personally believe that we live in the imagination of a creature we cannot begin to know or understand "fully", but to a degree, yes.
My reason for believing that we are simply living in the dream world of what most people call "God" is because of how I do my research.
My style of research is by comparing two different things and see what relations or similarities I can find between the two systems of what ever it is I am researching.
For example, because I believe we live in a mind of some sort, I went to Google and typed in "how many galaxies are in the universe?", and Google replied with "100 billion".
And then I googled the question "how many neurons does the human brain have?", and Google replied with "100 billion".
And then I googled this next question "does the universe look like a brain?", and Google replied with many links, but out of all of them I found an image that showed the similarity between galaxy clusters and the neurons in a brain; they both appear similar in "nature".
Check this out:
"Laniakea: Our home supercluster" Where earth is located within laniakea - looks like where the pineal gland is located in the brain.
So thus I concluded that we must live in a mind.
And because of that conclusion I developed a theory; this theory of mine states that god or what ever creature's mind we live in is simply a dream world, but a dream world that is not chaotic as our dream worlds, and in this dream world, we do not have the power to alter the fabric of space and time like we can in our dreams.
But wait... how do we alter the fabric of what we call "reality" ... ?
Well the only way I can explain this is by the following: "If you ever have a lucid dream, try to bring things into existence by unifying your thought and emotion, by doing that... you should begin to see your lucid dream reality morphing unto your belief/will/breath of life.
What ever you feel whilst lucid in a dream, comes into existence by your "feelings".
Now surely if we live in a mind/dream world, there must be a way to communicate with the god of this world somehow, and then getting it to "feel" something based off of what you are praying about.
Prayer to me is nothing more than channeling.
So... in a nut shell, if you can make god feel something about what is in your heart, the very nature of our reality should develop an effect because god was simply "feeling" something.
For example, when you are lucid within a dream, you are the god of your dream people who live within the dream universe of your mind, and within your inner "dream universe" you have a dream planet which you can name it anything, but I prefer to call it "earth".
Also I realized that if my theory is correct, then it can explain almost everything, connecting all plausible theory's.
They say that in each and every alternate universe dwells different physics and different configurations of stars, e.t.c.
For example, in one of any alternate universes - exists something or someone that no longer exists in OUR universe.
In each of our minds exists the "memory" of a past experience, this experience lives on within the universe of our mind.
So it's possible that you, me and everyone else, including animals... make up what we call the: "Multiverse".
...
My third perspective of the paradigm of magical thoughts and ideas is that maybe these symbol forming tools can simply be used to encrypt messages or even be used to strengthen computer technology.
...
I think "Rupert Sheldrake" and "Greg Braiden" can offer you more understanding.
I hope I have helped you see "magick" in a whole new way. ~
[thumbup]
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Our consciousness is the darkness that envelopes all of the universe; We will live forever because we are the essence that is the absence of light.
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(='.'=)
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Our consciousness is the darkness that envelopes all of the universe; We will live forever because we are the essence that is the absence of light.
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Spoiler:
Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
RoseRed
What a fantastic lineage. A lot of strength can be drawn from knowing we share the blood of forbears who triumphed over adversity. Have you ever visited your family's country(ies) of origin, or felt the pull to?
Neko
That's so interesting. I use rose quartz for its comforting, calming qualities but haven't really experimented with other crystals. I used to have a citrine with very 'sparkly' energies and think I might start with trying to find another. I'm not surprised to hear that crystals on their own have never provided complete relief, or that when you're really ill you forget to use them. I know there are different viewpoints on charging crystals for a particular purpose - have you found it effective to charge them with positive, uplifting energy when you're feeling good so you can draw on this when your mood's beginning to sink? I've also wondered whether crystal grids can be used to help protect against depressive episodes? Sorry to bombard you with questions!
Kurokami's thoughts about dreams reminded me to ask whether anyone uses lucid dreaming as a means to improve their mood? Given the link between depression and over-dreaming it seems an interesting avenue to explore and I can find almost nothing about its therapeutic possibilities.
What a fantastic lineage. A lot of strength can be drawn from knowing we share the blood of forbears who triumphed over adversity. Have you ever visited your family's country(ies) of origin, or felt the pull to?
Neko
That's so interesting. I use rose quartz for its comforting, calming qualities but haven't really experimented with other crystals. I used to have a citrine with very 'sparkly' energies and think I might start with trying to find another. I'm not surprised to hear that crystals on their own have never provided complete relief, or that when you're really ill you forget to use them. I know there are different viewpoints on charging crystals for a particular purpose - have you found it effective to charge them with positive, uplifting energy when you're feeling good so you can draw on this when your mood's beginning to sink? I've also wondered whether crystal grids can be used to help protect against depressive episodes? Sorry to bombard you with questions!
Kurokami's thoughts about dreams reminded me to ask whether anyone uses lucid dreaming as a means to improve their mood? Given the link between depression and over-dreaming it seems an interesting avenue to explore and I can find almost nothing about its therapeutic possibilities.
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Neko-phyte
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Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
Oh yeah, Rose Quartz would be another good one. On the same train of thought, perhaps Morganite and Black Tourmaline would be good as well.hellebore wrote:RoseRed
Neko
That's so interesting. I use rose quartz for its comforting, calming qualities but haven't really experimented with other crystals. I used to have a citrine with very 'sparkly' energies and think I might start with trying to find another. I'm not surprised to hear that crystals on their own have never provided complete relief, or that when you're really ill you forget to use them. I know there are different viewpoints on charging crystals for a particular purpose - have you found it effective to charge them with positive, uplifting energy when you're feeling good so you can draw on this when your mood's beginning to sink? I've also wondered whether crystal grids can be used to help protect against depressive episodes? Sorry to bombard you with questions!
Kurokami's thoughts about dreams reminded me to ask whether anyone uses lucid dreaming as a means to improve their mood? Given the link between depression and over-dreaming it seems an interesting avenue to explore and I can find almost nothing about its therapeutic possibilities.
When I charge mine, I do in stages--initial cleansing, dedication (if it's a newly purchased stone), and then programming. I've noticed that different stones like to be cleansed in different ways. Anyway, during the dedication I pour a lot of energy into it, and then the programming stage is when I announce/request my intentions, still using energy. The separation between dedication and programming is really artificial; the only difference is that some of the rituals aren't always required. It's not recommended to do this work while in a bad mood of course, but in the programming stage you can request assistance in protection against episodes. Some crystals will do a better job of it than others of course
I can provide 2c about the lucid dreaming as well--I used to use it in that way much more often as a child. Personally, I found it to be a double-edged sword. While it was fantastic while it was unfolding, I found myself using it as a crutch/escape more often, and found myself at least trying to sleep more. I was always really sad when I couldn't fall asleep.
As an adult, however, I find myself lucidly dreaming less often, but I still dream quite vividly, which is fantastic until/unless it turns nightmarish [lol]
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ErebusNamtar
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Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
Ugh failing wi-fi ate my post.
In short; yes lucid dreaming does help me but only after conventional therapies for the biggest traumas I had suffered. Before I had done that it was far too easy to use it as an escape rather than a tool for advancement. Neko-phyte is right in calling it a double-edged sword.
I personally wouldn't suggest it if you already feel down and can be trapped easily, rather, use it when you already feel well to simply clean out some remaining cobwebs in your mind.
In short; yes lucid dreaming does help me but only after conventional therapies for the biggest traumas I had suffered. Before I had done that it was far too easy to use it as an escape rather than a tool for advancement. Neko-phyte is right in calling it a double-edged sword.
I personally wouldn't suggest it if you already feel down and can be trapped easily, rather, use it when you already feel well to simply clean out some remaining cobwebs in your mind.
Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
Hi Neko and Erebus
I hadn't thought about lucid dreaming becoming too much of an escape. That's a useful caution. Books have been my double-edged sword [eg]
I hadn't thought about lucid dreaming becoming too much of an escape. That's a useful caution. Books have been my double-edged sword [eg]
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Neko-phyte
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Re: Some Rambling Thoughts
Books can be unhelpful like that sometimes as wellhellebore wrote:Hi Neko and Erebus
I hadn't thought about lucid dreaming becoming too much of an escape. That's a useful caution. Books have been my double-edged sword [eg]
' Video games I also find particularly unhelpful. Escapism in general is unhelpful, ultimately--though there is no way I'd ever criticise anyone for doing it.