What's going on out there?! - A memo about the real world.

[magari]

Ahh yes,

I see now.

You are obviously oppressed.

Enjoy.

[magari]

You know there is a whole lot of people doing real work to fix the inequality in this world and its actually a situation thats been improving since the dawn of time.

People are making hard investments in innovative technologies to improve your lot in life.

You could do some real work too if you wanted, but its so much easier to blame the illuminati and give up isnt it?

Whos really keeping you from progress? The system, the conspiracy theorist, or yourself?

Everyone is so quick to make excuses for their lack of effort, their fear of failure, or their own weakness.

In this world you get to choose. Victim or Victor?

You are obviously a victim and will lean on the support the system has provided you since birth. You know we didn't have to provide you with an education. Id say your privileged to be able to read and write.

Excuse me while I enjoy the fruits of my own labor. No, you can't have any. Make a real contribution and get your own.

[Nahemah]

So not only are you wasting your time, your wasting our time, you're wasting serverspace and more importantly; As a moderator, you are making the whole fucking forum look bad.

I'll address this first.

You don't get to dictate what gets posted here. Full stop.

We, as staff, get to decide what is a waste and we have plenty of space, just so you know for future reference.

Don't swear like that when trying to make a serious point, by the way, it is not becoming nor is it germane to the subject.

Who, may I ask, is making what look bad here?

That was rhetorical, don't respond to it. [thumbup]

Don't post like this again, please and thank you. Pm me if you wish any further discussion on this. Do not respond in thread.

[Nahemah]

When I look at history I dont see the system as cancerous, I see the opposite. It's this anti-social shit thats cancerous. Blame your ancestors for not providing you a better situation to start with, not the system.

This is a problematic statement.

Why?

You've went from attacking theories and posting on point to ad hominem attacks on cyberdemon rather quickly, haven't you?

Remember, the enemy tries to divide us, not unite us.

Sounds a bit conspiracy-ish to me magari, no?

Sorry I dont believe we're all slaves to the illuminati.

People enslave themselves.

A little deterministic too, perhaps.

And then you hrow in some more contradiction regarding another us and them after denying previously that there is any us and them.

They tend to treat their women and homosexuals with far more respect than we do too.

Onwards:

And please explain why you referenced cyberdemon's ancestors here?

Change and progress never occurred out of homeostasis nor blind obedience/deference to any system; and which system is it that you are referring to here, Historically speaking, of course ?

Different regimes operated differently in various of the societies and nations that existed in the past, just as is going on now.

This does read as casting aspertions to me, so it may be advantageous if this statement is qualified by you, to remove any doubt.

As you should with this below too:

You are obviously a victim and will lean on the support the system has provided you since birth. You know we didn't have to provide you with an education. Id say your privileged to be able to read and write.

Who is this 'we' you are referring to?

And why do you assume cyberdemon is dependent on you for his education?

You read as racist and ignorant to me, but I'd rather you define your assertions before I assume any further.

One post on this, only from magari please, too many topics get wrecked by this kind of distraction, so this will be a short, if timely interruption.

Tread warily, magari and do refer to the posting rules first. This is informal at the moment, lets keep it this way please.

[Cygnus]

It's easy to "debunk" the flat earth theory. After all, the last 500 years of funding have gone into advertising the sphere earth model. It's the problem of proving the sphere without using NASA as a credible source where everything falls .. flat.

Well, that answers my query from earlier this week, it seems you are a proponent of this notion.
I don't mind if people want to deny all the advancements of knowledge of the last 500 or so years, but
yes it is easy to debunk it without recourse to NASA (though why people find that necessary is beyond me).

Using decent binocular or even a spotting scope, watch a ship sailing towards the horizon (this works better with the traditional "Tall Ships"). If the world was flat you'd see the vessel get smaller in proportion, but the world is not flat and what you see is that the hull disappears first while the top of the mast (or funnels) is still visible.

I don't see why the occult path of spiritual development has to be beset with so many ludicrous ideas like flat-earth, ETs, Illuminati etc.

It's every bit as bad as the anti-evolution stance of typical Christians, but at least these guys have finally now albeit begrudgingly, accepted our current cosmological-science view. Check out John Lennox, Professor of Mathematics at Oxford University but an evangelizing Christian who has written, inter alia, "Seven Days that Divide the World" (2011) a supposed 'defence' of the Genesis myth in the context of modern science. I've read it. It's a pretty desperate twisting of definitions to make a square peg fit in a round hole.

I'm a trained scientist and I reject the concept that an occultist cannot have a reasonably typical scientific world view. The fact that this Greer chap is a medical doctor tells me he should stick to practising medicine. I'm a Doctor too (I have a PhD in what a layperson might call biochemistry, or more specifically the effects or reactive free-radical species on cellular components) but if I step beyond the bounds of logic and reason I'd expect to be ridiculed too.

Additionlly, if you reject NASA you're also going to have to reject Copernicus, Gallileo, Newton et al

Oh... and to any flat-earth proponents who use mobile phones and sat-navs: just what do you think these communication satellites are revolving around if it isn't a sphere? If you reject this idea then you'll need to come up withacceptable new theories on gravity.

This is the beauty of science, it's like a brick wall that has each new course of bricks attacked by a bunch of other bricklayers. If they pull it down we bin it, if it stands the test, we build the next layer on top, and so on, ad infinitum. Consequently the only parts that are ever shaky are the latest layer of knowledge currently being tested.

[Maya The Generator]

I agree with Cygnus on this case.

[ErebusNamtar]

I should tell you that you won't find concrete evidence anywhere. Every outlet is controlled and everyone is pushing their own agenda. If you're open minded, and you find an idea, you ought to do the research yourself. That doesn't mean you shouldn't look at things that are presented to you since they do offer perspective, counter perspective, alternative perspective and so on. How you look and how you react is key. You test things? Good. That's far better than seeing something and immediately disagreeing (or agreeing) with it.

"Believe nothing they tell you, test everything for yourself". That is my life's motto.
Though we will find no agreement on the things you posted I do very much agree with what I believe you are trying to get across. The bolded part I quoted is spot on. The only reason I did not do so here is because the things being said in these movies, well I have heard them multiple times in slightly different wording and they are debunked easily enough with your own home-cooked experiments. Now, the stuff you have to completely rely on others in order to ascertain whether they are true or not...yeah you definitely got a point there.

I'm personally seeing a logos versus mythos debate here(please correct me if wrong!), I'm a proponent of the two thinking-modes combined. Maybe that's why I see both sides of the coin even though I might not fully agree with any one side.
If we can all just stay polite and not take things as personal attacks I think we have a very interesting debate here that goes beyond flat earth and aliens. [smile2]

[Nahemah]

If we can all just stay polite and not take things as personal attacks I think we have a very interesting debate here that goes beyond flat earth and aliens.

That's why staff are present here now.

Members shouldn't join in with issues caused by other members, nor is there a need to confirm what a moderator has already posted. [thumbup]

This is an informal situation at present, but any escalation will be be infractable without further reference.

Do carry on.

[magari]

When I look at history I dont see the system as cancerous, I see the opposite. It's this anti-social shit thats cancerous. Blame your ancestors for not providing you a better situation to start with, not the system.

This is a problematic statement.

Why?

You've went from attacking theories and posting on point to ad hominem attacks on cyberdemon rather quickly, haven't you?

If I must choose a target I would say its conspiracy theorists in general. Does cyberdemon identify herself as a conspiracy theorist?

Remember, the enemy tries to divide us, not unite us.

Sounds a bit conspiracy-ish to me magari, no?

Yes ma'am. Attempting to find some common language here.

Sorry I dont believe we're all slaves to the illuminati.

People enslave themselves.

A little deterministic too, perhaps.

And then you hrow in some more contradiction regarding another us and them after denying previously that there is any us and them.

Can you show me where I stated there is no "us and them"? If I must I would define "us" as everyone who is actually contributing to society; doctors, firemen, educators, electricians, plumbers, ect, and "them" being the individuals who would rather see it all burn.

They tend to treat their women and homosexuals with far more respect than we do too.

Onwards:

And please explain why you referenced cyberdemon's ancestors here?

Did I reference her ancestors here? I'm guessing you are referring to above. My point is we all have those who came before us to blame for our starting point, not the Illuminati. We also only have ourselves to blame for failing to improve our lot in life, again, not the Illuminati.

Change and progress never occurred out of homeostasis nor blind obedience/deference to any system; and which system is it that you are referring to here, Historically speaking, of course ?

The system would be the evolution of society and civilization, the largest currently being the organization of the largest regimes at the international level.

Different regimes operated differently in various of the societies and nations that existed in the past, just as is going on now.

This does read as casting aspertions to me, so it may be advantageous if this statement is qualified by you, to remove any doubt.

As you should with this below too:

You are obviously a victim and will lean on the support the system has provided you since birth. You know we didn't have to provide you with an education. Id say your privileged to be able to read and write.

Who is this 'we' you are referring to?

And why do you assume cyberdemon is dependent on you for his education?

By "we" I am referring to the system, or "us" as defined above.

You read as racist and ignorant to me, but I'd rather you define your assertions before I assume any further.

If you could show me where I'm singling out any race that would be nice. I fail to see racism in anything I'm posting. Doesn't everyone have ancestors?

One post on this, only from magari please, too many topics get wrecked by this kind of distraction, so this will be a short, if timely interruption.

Tread warily, magari and do refer to the posting rules first. This is informal at the moment, lets keep it this way please.

How about I tread confidently instead? There is nothing here to fear.

[cyberdemon]

You know there is a whole lot of people doing real work to fix the inequality in this world and its actually a situation thats been improving since the dawn of time.

People are making hard investments in innovative technologies to improve your lot in life.

True. I'm sure the Keshe Foundation with their plasma reactor are definitely trying at the moment. However not all these "hard investments" are completely good for humanity. Let me point out how Volkswagen simply faked tests to have themselves known as energy efficient. But, sure, they still make nice cars.

You could do some real work too if you wanted, but its so much easier to blame the illuminati and give up isnt it?

Whos really keeping you from progress? The system, the conspiracy theorist, or yourself?

Everyone is so quick to make excuses for their lack of effort, their fear of failure, or their own weakness.

Baseless, magari. You have no idea what I do and don't, so I suppose I should inform you that I do plenty. Nothing's keeping me from progress as an individual in the system and my successes are my proof. The system however is keeping humanity as a whole from progress. You need to understand what that means, and fast.

In this world you get to choose. Victim or Victor?

.

I am cyberdemon.

You are obviously a victim and will lean on the support the system has provided you since birth. You know we didn't have to provide you with an education. Id say your privileged to be able to read and write.

Do you really think that being able to read and write is a privilege in the current world? No, it's long since it became a human right and an ability. Even in the poorest countries, children learn to read and write even at basic levels simply via exposure to things such as billboards and bank notes. If you think this is something that needs taught, you're wrong, and you underestimate human intelligence a lot. It only requires practice to master, but it doesn't require teaching any more. The world's literacy rate is at an all time high.

Excuse me while I enjoy the fruits of my own labor. No, you can't have any. Make a real contribution and get your own.

I don't want any nor do I need any. I have plenty of my own already, and I do my part of charity. You, on the other hand, sound like the people who don't think that bigger earners ought to pay bigger taxes. The trickle-down concept has never worked, and never will do more than to make the gap between the rich and the poor bigger. I'm so, so surprised. Where's your open mindedness? I'm sorry, but you've proven yourself to be absolutely closed up. You choose comfort, good for you. You're afraid of losing even a portion of your comforts even if it is to aid humanity's progress. What's the right word for this? Selfishness? Arrogance? Supremacy? All three of those are bad traits. You're no longer qualified to call yourself an occultist, never mind any other title you think you have. You are the very embodiment of the reasons why the European Union is barring refugees from entering Europe to escape a barren land and a war zone - to protect their own riches and call it "sustainability". That is not what humanity should be stooping down to. Does economic stability really take precedence over human lives? Reflect, magari. You're simply backing yourself into a corner for me, and that's rather sad.

Well, that answers my query from earlier this week, it seems you are a proponent of this notion.
I don't mind if people want to deny all the advancements of knowledge of the last 500 or so years, but
yes it is easy to debunk it without recourse to NASA (though why people find that necessary is beyond me).

Using decent binocular or even a spotting scope, watch a ship sailing towards the horizon (this works better with the traditional "Tall Ships"). If the world was flat you'd see the vessel get smaller in proportion, but the world is not flat and what you see is that the hull disappears first while the top of the mast (or funnels) is still visible.

Like I said, I'm pushing the motion for the sake of debate and I'm enjoying doing so!

You see, this "advancement of knowledge" isn't regarded as true advancement at all. I won't deny all the advancements, though. The point still stands though, that what we have and what we are told about how they work are two different things. In the medical sector we've big pharma pulling the shots. At Wall Street, we have people gambling for life. As for NASA, the funding goes all into keeping up the hoax and making it so elaborate that people don't even know what they're really being made to do. That's the beauty of the conspiracy from the depths.

I've done the seaside experiment with a telescope. I've seen ships myself after they've "crossed over" the horizon and disappeared, floating over the horizon and appearing to be hovering in air. The problem is that this horizon itself is false - it is known, because it is a summation of all the waves at that point. Further ahead is the floating ship which is no mirage, but the ship itself. The image is distorted and that's as far as the refractive properties of the atmosphere goes. There's a video I watched recently that demonstrated exactly as I saw myself, I'll find it for you if you like.

I don't see why the occult path of spiritual development has to be beset with so many ludicrous ideas like flat-earth, ETs, Illuminati etc.

It's every bit as bad as the anti-evolution stance of typical Christians, but at least these guys have finally now albeit begrudgingly, accepted our current cosmological-science view. Check out John Lennox, Professor of Mathematics at Oxford University but an evangelizing Christian who has written, inter alia, "Seven Days that Divide the World" (2011) a supposed 'defence' of the Genesis myth in the context of modern science. I've read it. It's a pretty desperate twisting of definitions to make a square peg fit in a round hole.

Ludicrous? The idea of demons, possessions, astral projection, all these are just as ludicrous from a scientific point of view. Science itself has been corrupted to be a religion on its own, so of course, it will go against other religions. Zeteticism is far nicer these days: the science of making conclusions post-observation, instead of the usual theory making followed by looking for said theory in practice and bending results to meet the wanted conclusion. (Don't start on the theory/hypothesis argument, those are simply vocabulary issues. You know what I mean.)

I'm a trained scientist and I reject the concept that an occultist cannot have a reasonably typical scientific world view. The fact that this Greer chap is a medical doctor tells me he should stick to practising medicine. I'm a Doctor too (I have a PhD in what a layperson might call biochemistry, or more specifically the effects or reactive free-radical species on cellular components) but if I step beyond the bounds of logic and reason I'd expect to be ridiculed too.

Additionlly, if you reject NASA you're also going to have to reject Copernicus, Gallileo, Newton et al

Your point flies past me, sadly, since I'm in training to be a medical doctor myself. Again, not all science is part of the lie. This is also why I'm trying to push the notion. I regard Dr Greer to be an occultist as much as I consider myself one. Here, on this forum at least, you cannot be ridiculed because we task ourselves to deal with what's beyond science, with logic, reason, and knowledge of perspectives.

Newton only gave one explanation for the "law" of gravity. In truth, it is a phenomenon, and simply put, just one explanation isn't the way to go. The problem is that other explanations aren't even studied. We have models and theories and laws that fit each other, but we cannot use one as proof of the other. Therein lies the fallacy of the bubble of lies. I'm not saying that these ancient scientists were evil, they perhaps didn't even know what they were contributing to. The fact that the earth revolves around the sun is only an idea. From earth we see and feel the opposite. The idea that the opposite is true is novelty. It is amazing how "outlandish" ideas are always the best at explaining things, even if they may be absolutely wrong.

Oh... and to any flat-earth proponents who use mobile phones and sat-navs: just what do you think these communication satellites are revolving around if it isn't a sphere? If you reject this idea then you'll need to come up withacceptable new theories on gravity.

The Russians don't even believe in satellites. At least I'm putting it forward that only some of them are real. Rockets flying up? An elaborate hoax paid for by the taxpayers for knowledge but instead they are given shows. The ionosphere of the atmosphere is adequate as a reflective medium for all land based communications and that is exactly what we only have.

The "global positioning system" does not work over the southern "hemisphere". You can test this out by watching a few flights on any internet flight tracker. On a sidenote, if you take flights in the southern hemisphere for example, you'll see plenty of connections but never a straight shot across the Atlantic, say. The funny part is that if you take these routes and plot them on a flat earth map they become nice straight lines - cost effective. You may bring up the fact that planes run out of fuel. Google it. The flying distance of of the standard 747 is 13,450km. The distance across the Atlantic is 2,575km.

This is the beauty of science, it's like a brick wall that has each new course of bricks attacked by a bunch of other bricklayers. If they pull it down we bin it, if it stands the test, we build the next layer on top, and so on, ad infinitum. Consequently the only parts that are ever shaky are the latest layer of knowledge currently being tested.

That's the beauty of a conspiracy built upon what's perpetuated as truth. Many of the bricks placed between the top and the bottom are false. Say, if the real bricks are made of clay, these are made of carbon infused styrofoam. Fancy, but fallacious.

[magari]

..... The system however is keeping humanity as a whole from progress. ..... The world's literacy rate is at an all time high.

[rofl]

Yeah, sorry, education is not a right. If it was everyone would be getting the same grade.

You have a right to pursue an education though.

You obviously haven't traveled enough, or at least never bothered venturing into territory controlled by lawless warlords.

When you do, keep the system's phone number handy and try to not start another war between a developed nation and a developing one. Or at least try to keep your head on your shoulders.

Oh.... and how do you explain the advancement of literacy without market forces?

[cyberdemon]

Yeah, sorry, education is not a right. If it was everyone would be getting the same grade.

You have a right to pursue an education though.

You obviously haven't traveled enough, or at least never bothered venturing into territory controlled by lawless warlords.

When you do, keep the system's phone number handy and try to not start another war between a developed nation and a developing one. Or at least try to keep your head on your shoulders.

Oh.... and how do you explain the advancement of literacy without market forces?

Ah, yes, BBC, one of the top mainstream media outlets. If there's something you oughtn't believe in is CNN, NBC, and your BBC. Everyone getting the same grade? Don't make me laugh. Examinations are designed by a monkey's ability to climb trees, administered all the same to fish, cows and turtles. Still, you're demonstrating what exactly? You've just proven the inequality, and I'm showing you the reason behind the inequality. My point stands, yet you hardly understand anything. I've traveled all over Europe (both the east and the west), Northern America and I've traveled all over Asia. I'm not going to argue with you about what I've done or not, actually. But I'm going to tell you that I feel personally responsible for the current war in Ukraine and the Greek economic collapse via occult reasons that I shan't even get into detailing because at this point I don't think you are even qualified to be discussing anything here. You fail to see that the market force is a manipulated phenomenon and what its side effects are. If I explained to you that literacy occurred because of the need of it as an ability, which was aided by the need to be able to read bank notes and billboards, my point would fly over your head because you believe that the Western hegemony is responsible for all the developments in the world while completely failing to see that this hegemony itself is the cause of the inequality around the world.

Oh, you ask, how was this hegemony formed?

By creating NASA. To perpetuate the lie that the earth is a sphere. To claim the title of "most scientifically advanced" and reap the benefits that come with it. Your argument is invalid.

You need to quit making assumptions and acting bigoted, by the way. You're making yourself look very bad.

[magari]

America's hegemony came out of WWI, not the cold war.

[magari]

Take some classes on political science and international relations, preferably from a private institution, one that benefits from creating individuals with marketable knowledge and skills.

Here is some reading if you're really interested in how the world is organized.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/082233 ... 0XXSF8E074

The Illuminati is such a spoonfed answer. The reality is the world is much more complex than that.

[ErebusNamtar]

Apologies Nahemah, did not mean to mini-mod. I'm just used to the role of intermediary because of my regular job.

[Sypheara]

Its not often I find myself agreeing with Magari but...

The Greeks knew this in 600bc from their work calculating earths diameter.. You can see the curvature for yourself if youve ever flown on an airplane, or travelled on a boat and watched the land drop slowly out of sight.

Note you can easily prove this yourself by sending up a rocket with a camera attached to a parachute. My friend did this with a solid rocket motor...

The footage clearly shows earths curvature. I think its quite sad that everyone thinks nasa is a fake after all its done. And all of the probe missions to comets and other worlds. Niel Armstrong was right imho to punch that guy who was insinuating his mission was a hoax. What an excuse of a man to say that to the first man to ever set foot on another planetoid.

Flat earth is so ridiculous it doesnt even really worth trying to disprove it. Its in the same category as the guy who called my friend a alien shapeshifting lizard and belived that because my friend worked for the water company hed spike his drink. Its utter bonkers lunacy.

This thread seems to have veered off into silly land. Im not sure why cyberdemon posted it. Is this a joke thread? Is it to discuss ridiculous conspiracy theories? Is cyberdemon simply pushing buttons in an attemot to see how 'open minded' the board is? I honestly cant tell from the tone of these posts.

[CCoburn]

100s of years of science, all my Occult literature. Either explicity, or implicitly supports the spherical model. I just can't throw all that away. A cover up of this magnitude would be insane.

Anyways, I don't think anyone has mentioned the coriolis effect. Snipers have to compensate for the rotation of the earth at long distances.

Cheers

[Nahemah]

This thread seems to have veered off into silly land. Im not sure why cyberdemon posted it. Is this a joke thread? Is it to discuss ridiculous conspiracy theories? Is cyberdemon simply pushing buttons in an attemot to see how 'open minded' the board is? I honestly cant tell from the tone of these posts.

I can't tell either, but here it is anyway.

We have enough space for it and it's getting posted in, so not really a big issue overall, but the devolution into ad hominem that happened; that was concerning- so it's now a monitored thread. [thumbup]

@magari:

How about I tread confidently instead? There is nothing here to fear.

There most certainly is, if you return to ad hominem, it's an immediate 7 day ban, with no further forewarning issued.

Enough magari, you did not aquit yourself well in the 'explanatory' post.

Stick to the topic from here on in and be careful how you frame your references in future.

This is not an optional request and any further communication regarding this matter should be by pm only, not in thread.

[Sypheara]

Fair enough, sounds good.

[Rin]

Its not often I find myself agreeing with Magari but...

The Greeks knew this in 600bc from their work calculating earths diameter.. You can see the curvature for yourself if youve ever flown on an airplane, or travelled on a boat and watched the land drop slowly out of sight.

Note you can easily prove this yourself by sending up a rocket with a camera attached to a parachute. My friend did this with a solid rocket motor...

The footage clearly shows earths curvature. I think its quite sad that everyone thinks nasa is a fake after all its done. And all of the probe missions to comets and other worlds. Niel Armstrong was right imho to punch that guy who was insinuating his mission was a hoax. What an excuse of a man to say that to the first man to ever set foot on another planetoid.

Flat earth is so ridiculous it doesnt even really worth trying to disprove it. Its in the same category as the guy who called my friend a alien shapeshifting lizard and belived that because my friend worked for the water company hed spike his drink. Its utter bonkers lunacy.

This thread seems to have veered off into silly land. Im not sure why cyberdemon posted it. Is this a joke thread? Is it to discuss ridiculous conspiracy theories? Is cyberdemon simply pushing buttons in an attemot to see how 'open minded' the board is? I honestly cant tell from the tone of these posts.

Gotta agree - not sure why there's been such a surge in silly conspiracy stuff lately, but I think we should draw the line at flat earth - that's just trolling/mental illness territory. Hell, I disprove it every time I drive down into the city, look down onto the sea and can't see the peninsula which sits just beyond the horizon.

[Cybernetic_Jazz]

I won't get into the flat earth stuff because I feel like everything I would have had to say was already addressed quite well.

With the extraterrestrial situation I see something quite a bit different and really something that seems to sit much better with how the sightings, abduction phenomena, etc.. seem to work.

Essentially this is the idea; from seeing that magick and mysticism yield results that they're not supposed to yield on a physical model, when I can experience causes that draw lines from my consciousness to the physical world in ways that show that the ideas behind something I was doing, with no connection to their mechanical functioning, created an effect by outside channel, and seeing also the seeming cohesiveness of the plane mundane and boring and the lack of shared experience on the fantastic (ie. yeti's, UFO's, Ashtar Command, Pleiadians, lost Lemurian cities still inhabited under Mt. Shasta by men in white robes or guys from South America getting transported by portal to meet the adepts of Venus in their subterranean living quarters, and sure - even flying cities over China) - Information Theory model of QM seems to come to mind quickly.

When discussing things of the 'magick' flavor people seem to talk about the universe of the magician vs. the everyone else's universe. I remember when Poke Runyon said something on Hermetic Hour - that Kenneth Grant was able to create a race of beings on Pluto but did so in his specific universe, it seems to also show how magicians like Franz Bardon as adept as they were could still be pulled into concentration camp, then gulag, and die in prison. It shows that these are explorations of one's particular sphere of information as they draw upon their own set of beliefs and try to reconcile them to a prevailing structure that in many cases does not change (trying to tell the difference in what will vs. what won't change by the Will of the magician I think is something that one can only gain by experience).

In Zero Universes or Information Theory outlooks the universe would leak like a sieve but on the level of individual experience. I remember a time, early 2013, where I was very interested in what Tom Horn and Christ Putnam had to say regarding the nature of the UFO phenomena, I already saw what a steaming plate of nonsense such supposed contacts were serving up and I considered the possibility that it was there to shape people's thinking in certain ways, but I think Tom made a very valid point on a lot of it - ie. that the UFO phenomena has a phenomenal level of commonality with the fairy phenomena. Manifestations are fleeting, sometimes they'll leave physical evidence which gets people strongly considering that it wasn't a hallucination, in reality it wasn't but then again these are things that seem to work within the glitches of the program. Such forms of consciousness seem to contact us in various ages of society in various modes and wearing various garbs. Alien races seems to be the hot topic right now because people have a certain credulity toward this aspect - that clearly for something millions of light years away to visit us it would need to have technology way beyond anything we could imagine, one thinks of Arthur C Clark's comment about sufficiently advanced technology appearing as magic to those unfamiliar to it's operation, but I think that viewpoint is held from people's also apparent lack of understanding things like the fairy phenomena, the pukas that Robert Anton Wilson liked to classify these as; I'm partial to simply calling them sprites - they're conscious anomalies in the fabric of the space-time-consciousness matrix who seem to find or create holes in reality, sale in like a buss filled with Asian tourists, and go right back out, rarely to ever be seen again the same exact way.

The sheer ways these happen give credence to the understanding that both a) this is a very legitimate quarter of human experience that needs to be handled with respect and b) we're still very little children either running scared from or enthralled by things we don't understand and either way we for some reason rarely think to actually look at these things deductively - for whatever reason those who would seem to in too large of numbers get repelled by the absurdity of such situations. The remaining deductive thinkers, between those who have a geeky inclination toward mystic development and those who simply just love to try and crack insane puzzles, end up as occultists proper.

Project Blue Beam was something I heard about on Steve Quayle when I had about a four or five month span of listening to him on Hagmann and Hagmann and the whole idea of a UN-driven NWO based on laser-light shows and government-made hippy theology gets lost when you try to hold the technological possibilities up to what's needed to create a 3-D hologram. With the idea of projecting deities on the sky you have to ask that question - how do you render a 3-D model of something in the air if you don't have anything to reflect the light off of? I don't know that 'But...but..but... it's SUPER-high tech!" really covers it and if we go there we might as well figure that the Illuminati witches in DARPA and the military-industrial-nephilim complex have had two-seater space-craft that can travel at light speed and fly to Sirius (seat of the great Satanic end-times agenda and the place in the stars mentioned in Obadiah 1:4). If it's based on claims of science-fiction-now it's not even something you can critically analyze.

As for another angle of Steve Quayle and similar thinkers a really educational thing to look at, you're curious on getting to the 'mother load' of all conspiracy theories is Operation Highjump. Anartica is apparently the staging ground from the Strong Delusion (TM) of 2 Thessalonians 2:11. It's the continent that the Nazi master-minds escaped to after WWII, they discovered UFO technology and have been flying ships around using centrifuges run by liquid mercury, they're women are 80+ years old and look like supermodels, Shang-Ra-La, Atlantis, Lemuria, etc. are all active and alive under the Antarctic Ice, Leviathan supposedly swims around it's boarders either keeping guard against submarines or just enjoying it's scallops and kilotons of plankton, and the mass quantity of UFO's that the Nazi's and alien nephilim, cyclops, and demons are building will be flooding our skies one day soon, dominating all thought, social discourse, etc.. just by sheer overpowering shock, and from that point on we'll all be stamped with the 6's and thrown down a waterslide to eternal damnation all while we're still white as ghosts and stuttering from the morning we woke up and saw 100's of crafts when we looked up in the sky ranging from 30 feet to 30 miles wide.

I'm sharing that one because I'm doubtful that Rob Zombie and Quentin Tarantino working as a team to re-write Skycaptain and the World of Tomorrow could top that one.

I'm actually going to share a 2 hr radio show on that because I think people need to see hear this one - not for the sake of believing it necessarily but just to consider the mechanics of thought that go into selling things like this not only as credible facts but credible threats.

[Cybernetic_Jazz]

Here's the radio show I mentioned:

I'd agree with them that what they're dealing with is on a level that we'd generally consider 'spiritual' for the lack of better terminology at the moment (ie. our present phsysical vs. spiritual dualism) but I don't share in their Zoroastrian/Manichean-style dualism. Essentially they need an invasion to edify the end-times aspect of the literal outlook on the Bible and Book of Revelations. I suppose there's some risk that if enough people lose their adjustment on reality some disturbing things could result in this genre of semi-physical paranormal invasions but my understanding of the universe tells me that we put ourselves at risk by putting tripe in our processing circuits. Minds and consciousness are garbage in - garbage out and our shared reality seems to either gain or suffer according to what we feed ourselves.

[Liberator]

Conspiracy theorists are apparently freaking out over the CERN Hadron Collider machine or whatever it's called. Apparently it will be able to rip a hole/gateway or mini-black hole in this reality. Thoughts? Alex Jones in infowars is frightened and thinks that once it is done that the world will end and that the apocalypse/end is already here. Thinks we will be "invaded" and destroyed or ruled by beings coming through the machine.

If CERN does infact open a direct gateway to the other realm(s) then would it mean easier communication between people and beings like the deities?

[EEHC]

You truly believe they legalized marijuana and gay marriage so that people could be happy, don't you? Now why on earth would they give up power over something, a power which they forced in the first place? These things were done to prevent the masses from causing an uproar. To prevent civil war. To prevent their government from falling apart. You can always look at the bright side, but that's like looking at the sun with three layers of sunglasses and saying UV rays aren't real because you have sunscreen.

The legalization of marijuanna is an acknowledgement of the ''war on drugs'' failure. There is no conspiracy here. The fact is, pot remain much easier to buy on the streets for a teenager in places where it is illegal than buying alcool at the liquor store. Besides, studies do not show conclusively that marijuanna is any worst for your health than tobacco or alcool, which are perfectly legal for adult consummers.

Legalization is also an opportunity for the state to ''cash in'' on a regulated pot industry instead of leaving it all to the organized crime.

[EEHC]

Ludicrous? The idea of demons, possessions, astral projection, all these are just as ludicrous from a scientific point of view. Science itself has been corrupted to be a religion on its own, so of course, it will go against other religions. Zeteticism is far nicer these days: the science of making conclusions post-observation, instead of the usual theory making followed by looking for said theory in practice and bending results to meet the wanted conclusion. (Don't start on the theory/hypothesis argument, those are simply vocabulary issues. You know what I mean.)

Except that there are actually quite a few scientists interested in paranormal phenomena. They don't necesserely receive a lot of media coverage but there are still some Parapsychology labs running here and there. The paranormal/occult cannot easily be explained away, that's the difference. It's causes may not be entirely materialistic, if at all. It could be from a 'supernatural' realm of sort as opposed to the purely physical/quantifiable. I've yet to hear about a credible scientist in modern times defending the ''Flat-Earth'' theory though. Probably because there are many ways in which it can be proven wrong. One can't really make a case for it without conspiracy theories..