Souls

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Vendona
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Souls

Post by Vendona »

I don't know much about Magic in general, but my close friend is nearing a point of suicide so I wanted to learn this now.

Is it possible to store souls of dead people. Whenever it be an object or, you, I just want to know if it's possible, and if it is, a link leading to somewhere I can read about it.

Thank you for your time, and sorry if this was already covered or in the wrong place.

-Zac
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fraterai
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Re: Souls

Post by fraterai »

I think it's usually covered under "becomming a lich". I don't know of any "solid" or "universal" (bad word but you get it) method of doing something like this, because the mechanics aren't well defined. Why do you want to do this, what do you expect the outcome, etc., are all important questions with many different, unclear answers. What I mean is something like "astral travel" or soul travel is a more accepted or "relatable" topic across systems, but storing the soul for immortality is a grey area

But seriously something like that is, I assume, a huge undertaking
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chowderpope
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Re: Souls

Post by chowderpope »

I wouldn't suggest it. What would it be like, trapping him in a bottle? What good could come of that? From a moral standpoint the idea seems wrong. But it's also likely not possible to do as the soul is immaterial.
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Re: Souls

Post by Vendona »

I knew I should've been more specific. Storing a soul not for the purpose for immortality. Storing a soul for the purpose of keeping it around, to talk to, or whatever. Maybe temporarily, whatever is possible. Like I said, not very smart about things in this field.

There might be a way to communicate with a specific soul. I don't know. I never looked into necromancy until my friend started daring towards suicide.
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Desecrated
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Re: Souls

Post by Desecrated »

You can tie a soul to an object.

Vendona
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Re: Souls

Post by Vendona »

That seems quite exquisite. May you provide a link to an article or book I should look at? I want to read all about this and anything else I need to know.

Thank you
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corvidus
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Re: Souls

Post by corvidus »

So you're coercing your friend towards suicide so that you can trap his soul? Am I reading that write?
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isis.auset5
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Re: Souls

Post by isis.auset5 »

@corvidus I don't think he's coercing him, just that since his friend is leaning towards suicide, he'd like this kind of information

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Spida
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Re: Souls

Post by Spida »

I thought about something similar to this when I had a couple of awesome
pets die recently. Two black cats, they were Father and Daughter. I didn't
look at it as storing though, but just keeping their Spirit around. I even cut off
some of their fur before I buried them. I may make something out of it
eventually. I also conducted short Rituals using my current setup prior
to burial.

Anyways, in the end I backed away from this idea some, not even knowing if it
was possible to begin with. Because what I would like to happen most, would be
what is best for them.

I know they are just pets(as lots would think, but not me), but they can become
pretty damn important over the years.

Peace

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Desecrated
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Re: Souls

Post by Desecrated »

Vendona wrote:That seems quite exquisite. May you provide a link to an article or book I should look at? I want to read all about this and anything else I need to know.

Thank you
It's pretty much the same method as creating a servitor.

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Desecrated
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Re: Souls

Post by Desecrated »

Spida wrote:
I know they are just pets(as lots would think, but not me), but they can become
pretty damn important over the years.
There is a lot of people that make familiars of old pets. All you really need is their skull.

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Re: Souls

Post by Vendona »

I plan not to keep beast as familiars yet, as I fear that a pet should rest in piece. I am not supporting my friend's suicide, and I should probably give you a little drop of what is happening.

Her adoptive Mother is abusing her, which is causing her depression. She wants to die, but she is special to a large group of people, and I want to keep her around if possible.

Death is confusing for me, not knowing what is beyond the gates of life. My friend already agreed to be stored if she were to die, and I want to keep her until everyone is ready to let go of her if needed.

And even more confusing, I do not know what a "servitor" is. May you please provide the name of a book or the link of an online article with instructions for all of this. (Unless that is against the rules, and I should go read them)


Thank you
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the_spiral
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Re: Souls

Post by the_spiral »

Desecrated wrote:
Spida wrote:
I know they are just pets(as lots would think, but not me), but they can become
pretty damn important over the years.
There is a lot of people that make familiars of old pets. All you really need is their skull.
Heck, you don't always even need a skull. Human bonds with pets can be so strong that they'll sometimes stick around as familiars if you just invite them to while they're dying. Of course it helps to have a physical link but it isn't always necessary.

And I absolutely disagree that bottling your friend's soul after her suicide is as simple as creating a servitor. A servitor isn't a sovereign being and has no karmic entanglements of its own, for starters. Guiding a human soul to interrupt its evolutionary path, remain in the physical plane after death and attach itself to an object is risky and requires skill and experience. Why do you think people in monastic traditions train for lifetimes to achieve control over the reincarnation cycle? It's not that easy. I've been working with the dead since I was a kid and it's not something I've ever felt comfortable trying. Plus I'm not sure if you've ever dealt with a suicide-related haunting before, but they're really not good to be around. The self-inflicted violence of suicide doesn't just damage the body but also the soul, and what's left behind rarely resembles your loved one.

Since your friend isn't dead yet I think it would be much more efficient to develop your magickal skills toward healing, and work to help her through her depression and out of her negative living situation. Then you'll have more time to spend together anyway.
"Follow the path of the radiant life force as she flashes upward like lightning through your body." - Vijanabhairava Tantra

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Re: Souls

Post by Vendona »

I am guiding her away from her depression without magic, but with psychology that I won't get into. I wanted to read up on this stuff "just in case". It's better to be prepared for the worst.
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the_spiral
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Re: Souls

Post by the_spiral »

Vendona wrote:I am guiding her away from her depression without magic, but with psychology that I won't get into. I wanted to read up on this stuff "just in case". It's better to be prepared for the worst.
In that case you might want to read up on helping suicide victims cross over peacefully. In my experience it's easy for them to get trapped, more difficult to get free. And keeping her here won't help. Better she goes through and comes back to visit you on her own if anything.
"Follow the path of the radiant life force as she flashes upward like lightning through your body." - Vijanabhairava Tantra

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Re: Souls

Post by Spida »

All I can say right now is thanks Desecrated and Spiral,
I will came back to this when I have a few extra minutes.

Maybe even start a new topic or something, who knows.

Peace.

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fraterai
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Re: Souls

Post by fraterai »

I am familiar with creating spirit boxes as some spirits like having them around and probably use them for something I don't fully understand, and these posts got me thinking about pets and how to apply the spirit boxes to the pet. Usually the spirit tells you (as far as it can) how to make it for him/her/them but if its your own pet i'm sure you know what it loves. Sorry I have nothing more to contribute with humans, but i'm sure its nearly the same as with animals, but I still think it'd be difficult. For at least one reason, pets are natural psychics and naturally good at going through the cycles of nature so I could see it being easier to keep around. As spiral pointed out humans have a lot more trouble crossing over or dealing with the afterlife and the various religious implications and stuff, it is just more complicated.

But if kitty wants to help me i'm definitely gonna keep her skull in a spirit box in 10 or 15 years so i'll think of you all then [tongue]
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Re: Souls

Post by Vendona »

So much to learn with so much time. I am interested in learning more about spirits and these so called "spirit boxes". More or less I like knowing things. Is there somewhere I could read about those? (Or any books about necromancy in general I should look at)
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fraterai
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Re: Souls

Post by fraterai »

You may find something about them but they are individual to each spirit, the spirit will have to tell you how to make it. You would need at least some way to ask it questions and get answers, of which there are hundreds beyond just hearing it talk to you, like a pendulum or something else.

It really is just a box that would be painted, decorated, or filled with objects according to the spirits liking, maybe even a given ritual. There's no reason why you can't apply occult knowledge of correspondences and such to create a "spirit box" for any deity or spirit or whatever, but this isn't exactly what I was talking about (this is more just a talisman or idol), as when the spirit asks you to make it specifically it is ends up using it as some sort of house or something. I don't know the details but they enjoy it.

Check out Communing with the Spirits: The Magical Practice of Necromancy by Martin Coleman. It shows you exactly how much work goes into working with spirits of the dead. What sums it up is that the book claims it takes something like 6 months to fully fix a necromantic altar, and if you want to move it its going to take another 6 months. Obviously time frames like these change drastically between students but the point is it is a difficult, not beginner, practice. There aren't any shortcuts as far as psychic communication goes, unless you count the tools i mentioned
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Re: Souls

Post by Vendona »

When it comes to things that can go wrong with 1 bad move, I think it's better to avoid shortcuts and learn everything you should know. Since spirit boxes are just boxes, I don't need to worry much about those. I'll go read that book and see what it can teach me.


Thank you
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Re: Souls

Post by Desecrated »

the_spiral wrote:
There is a lot of people that make familiars of old pets. All you really need is their skull.
Heck, you don't always even need a skull. Human bonds with pets can be so strong that they'll sometimes stick around as familiars if you just invite them to while they're dying. Of course it helps to have a physical link but it isn't always necessary. [/quote]

True.
And I absolutely disagree that bottling your friend's soul after her suicide is as simple as creating a servitor. A servitor isn't a sovereign being and has no karmic entanglements of its own, for starters. Guiding a human soul to interrupt its evolutionary path, remain in the physical plane after death and attach itself to an object is risky and requires skill and experience. Why do you think people in monastic traditions train for lifetimes to achieve control over the reincarnation cycle? It's not that easy.
Well, this is of course only applicable if you believe in reincarnation. If you don't, all you need to do is tie the energy/soul/morphic resonance to something.
Not saying that it's easy. Just saying that the mechanics behind it is similar.


I've been working with the dead since I was a kid and it's not something I've ever felt comfortable trying. Plus I'm not sure if you've ever dealt with a suicide-related haunting before, but they're really not good to be around. The self-inflicted violence of suicide doesn't just damage the body but also the soul, and what's left behind rarely resembles your loved one.
Very good point. This is why we don't go around and just dig up bodies at the graveyard. Working with humans have great benefits if your working with a great human. But most of the time they are self-centered assholes and can be extremely difficult to control.
Since your friend isn't dead yet I think it would be much more efficient to develop your magickal skills toward healing, and work to help her through her depression and out of her negative living situation. Then you'll have more time to spend together anyway.
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Re: Souls

Post by Desecrated »

Vendona wrote:When it comes to things that can go wrong with 1 bad move, I think it's better to avoid shortcuts and learn everything you should know. Since spirit boxes are just boxes, I don't need to worry much about those. I'll go read that book and see what it can teach me.


Thank you
You can't build a house by reading one book. You need many books about many different aspects because building a house as many different elements.
You need books about necromancy and spirit communication. So start with the Greeks and work yourself up to the Haitians.

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Re: Souls

Post by chowderpope »

What would your reason be for trapping their soul on Earth? Sounds selfish to me.
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Re: Souls

Post by the_spiral »

Desecrated wrote: Well, this is of course only applicable if you believe in reincarnation. If you don't, all you need to do is tie the energy/soul/morphic resonance to something. Not saying that it's easy. Just saying that the mechanics behind it is similar.
I don't think it matters what you believe. All you'd need to believe is that human souls aren't meant to remain "here" for too long after death, which to me seems self-evident if you've interacted with ghosts or similar things. But I get what you're saying in that the basic mechanics are similar. But in terms of practical feasibility, they are really very different because servitors are more beginner friendly, easier to control, aren't "out of place" on this plane etc.
chowderpope wrote:What would your reason be for trapping their soul on Earth? Sounds selfish to me.
Yeah I don't feel like OP has answered this question either? They don't have the experience to do what they're asking (and that's not an insult, very few do no matter how many posture online as necromancers), they're ignoring people's suggestions of safer ways to handle suicidal spirits, and they still haven't ethically justified why binding a dead human's miserable soul to the earth is the best way to handle this very sad and unfortunate situation. But ok, if they want to read the Coleman book (which warns against dabbling in the very first chapter) and experiment with necromancy anyway, go for it. I just hope they're not back here in a year asking for advice about dealing with a messy haunting [confused2]

(And OP, I happen to think this whole discussion is a waste of time while your friend is still alive and has a chance, but if you insist on going this route Fraterai's suggestion is practical and relatively safe. But you need to already have the skills to communicate with the dead and you're not "storing" a dead human's soul, just giving her an anchor point on this plane if she chooses to communicate with you after her death.)
"Follow the path of the radiant life force as she flashes upward like lightning through your body." - Vijanabhairava Tantra

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Re: Souls

Post by Vendona »

To all who think I am selfish even thinking of trapping her, I remind you that she asked me to figure out how to trap her soul. Sorry for not providing more details of my situation.
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