"Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

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"Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

Post by Daud »

Hey all.

Before i start i'd like to add that this isn't a politically motivated post. I care very little for politics, and i'm not even American, but i find the occult influence (mostly black magick) in the status quo fascinating.


So according to released wiki leaks emails, Hillary Clinton's campaign manager John Podesta attends "spirit cooking" rituals with occultist Marina Ambramovic. In these rituals, they use menstrual blood, breast milk and semen to paint pictures and make art. They use the art to contact entities.

Hillary Clinton herself also is apparently a huge Voodoo practitioner and holds seances regularly, and even held one within the white house to contact the dead Eleanor Roosevelt.

Pretty funny hey? Some people think occultists are weird, and some of us sure are. But at the end of the day, those with knowledge of the occult are the ones with all the power.
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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

Post by Desecrated »

You should probably check your sources. It sounds about as accurate as all the other conspiracy nonsense floating around the internet.

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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

Post by Kami »

I highly doubt any of them are occultists.

What's the point of all of that crap(?)

They're str8 psychopaths.

There's ways that work and ways that don't when it comes to magick.

All this is meant for is to make us all look bad.

F* whoever came up with this b.s.

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I was gonna make a thread on this - but it appears as though I have been beaten to it. ~
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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

Post by Cybernetic_Jazz »

Someone else posted this on Facebook.

As far as I can tell it was John Podesta's brother who received the email, asked John if he wanted to go, he passed on it, and that was that.

It might raise questions about what John's brother is willing to consider 'art', OTOH if it's linked to a lot more bizarre or macabre stuff in his or John's ownership that indeed would be a red flag - this as a one off I'm not sure counts for anything aside from questionable taste in friends.

What might be a better question - when someone sets up a poppet in a padded cell, does Silent Hill style writing on the walls and covers the poppet in pig blood; is their magical act (whether deliberate or just cynical) going to have more power or effect than all the Christian prayers going up, all of the other intentions coming out of various other occultists and magicians who have little or nothing in common with this lady with respect to shared values. Really what I'm asking - is macabre magical ceremony and magical art necessarily any more powerful than just plain-old ceremony or magical art? Does the reaction of the audience feed it somehow or does it pretty much start and stop with her?

I ask that also because I really worry about our risk assessment skills if we're passing this out all over the place (the guy who posted it on his Facebook with concern is a very well accredited adept) and it turns out that we're not only making a mountain out of a magical molehill but that we're even aiding its power by drawing public attention to the work.
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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

Post by Desecrated »

Cybernetic_Jazz wrote: is macabre magical ceremony and magical art necessarily any more powerful than just plain-old ceremony or magical art? Does the reaction of the audience feed it somehow
Anton LaVey would probably agree with that.

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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

Post by Daud »

Kami wrote:I highly doubt any of them are occultists.

What's the point of all of that crap(?)

They're str8 psychopaths.

There's ways that work and ways that don't when it comes to magick.

All this is meant for is to make us all look bad.

F* whoever came up with this b.s.

...

I was gonna make a thread on this - but it appears as though I have been beaten to it. ~
Some of them are occultists, psychopaths can practice the occult. It's just a tool, you can use it however you want. Unfortunately, they are making us look very bad. Humans have a lust for power, and tend to misuse it.

Also, yes, my sources are accurate. There is other, creepier stuff floating around that i haven't brought up, regarding Pedo rings in the clinton campaign. Although there is evidence to support this, it isn't definite. So there is little point in bringing that up.

The powerful thing about spirit cooking is the intense energy that goes into it. The energy of disgust is used. While it may not have been leaked deliberately, i doubt the public knowledge and new psychic energy directed to their practice is going to hinder it in any way.

I believe so many of these super weird occultists go into the fashion/film industry so they can prey on the minds of the profane and utilise their unconscious energy.
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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

Post by Desecrated »

Cybernetic_Jazz wrote:(the guy who posted it on his Facebook with concern is a very well accredited adept)
That's probably an oxymoron. I don't think anybody who is a serious adept would be on facebook. :D
Last edited by Desecrated on Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

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Daud wrote:
I believe so many of these super weird occultists go into the politics/fashion/film industry so they can prey on the minds of the profane and utilise their unconscious energy.
This argument is beloved by conspiracy theorist all over the world, but I think It's wrong. And here is why:
The amount of time and energy needed to become a talented occultist and the amount of time and energy needed to become a successful person just doesn't mix.
It takes time before magic start manifesting results beyond the normal self-help psychology course would do. And if you study even a fraction of rhetoric and join the high school debate team you'll be further ahead when it comes to manipulating people than most satanists and psychic vampires I've meet.

Magic is a bit of a paradox, you need to spend years to become really powerful, but most people that actually goes down that road, ends up seeking completely different things than something so superficial as political power, wealth or sex.

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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

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Desecrated wrote:You should probably check your sources. It sounds about as accurate as all the other conspiracy nonsense floating around the internet.
Actually the evidence is fairly conclusive. The video of Marina's "spirit cooking" performance ritual is available here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9ys-Lfu4Sc

The email conversation where it is being discussed is here: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/15893

Even a very cursory search for information on Marina Abramovic will turn up further evidence of her involvement in the occult, eg:
You will need to be able to withstand a great deal of conversation about clairvoyants and tarot cards and didgeridoos and kundalini life forces and monks and gurus and “how the soul can leave the body through the center of the fontanel of the head” to make it very far in this memoir.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/02/books ... .html?_r=0
I don't know about voodoo in particular, but Bill Clinton discusses Hillary's communication with Eleanor Roosevelt's spirit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRav-34ufcE

I'm personally not sure what to make of all this. On the one hand, it's perfectly natural that a certain number of politicians would be drawn to occult practices and have metaphysical experiences, just as a certain number of people in any other section of the population will. On the other, it does contradict their "God-fearing Christian" public images they at least make a token effort to maintain.

And it makes you wonder, since conspiracy theorists have been accused of insanity and fear-mongering for making many of the claims which are now being validated with this flood of new information coming out during this election cycle via. email leaks and the project veritas action videos.

For what it's worth, I get a seriously bad vibe from that "Spirit Cooking" video.
That's probably an oxymoron. I don't think anybody who is a serious adept would be on facebook. :D
Why not? Granted they probably don't sit on their profiles all day posting status updates and memes, but plenty of accomplished spiritual practitioners have a social media presence like anyone else. It's almost a prerequisite for functioning in modern society unless you're a recluse of some kind.
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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

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Desecrated wrote:
Daud wrote:
I believe so many of these super weird occultists go into the politics/fashion/film industry so they can prey on the minds of the profane and utilise their unconscious energy.
This argument is beloved by conspiracy theorist all over the world, but I think It's wrong. And here is why:
The amount of time and energy needed to become a talented occultist and the amount of time and energy needed to become a successful person just doesn't mix.
It takes time before magic start manifesting results beyond the normal self-help psychology course would do. And if you study even a fraction of rhetoric and join the high school debate team you'll be further ahead when it comes to manipulating people than most satanists and psychic vampires I've meet.

Magic is a bit of a paradox, you need to spend years to become really powerful, but most people that actually goes down that road, ends up seeking completely different things than something so superficial as political power, wealth or sex.
You can't deny that there is a huge occult influence in pop culture, and now the connection has been made to politics.The symbology used is far too deep and reoccurring to be coincidental or accidental use of archetypes. These people likely already had these seeds in past lives, and are consequently naturals in the occult.
Also, involvement in the occult, or surrender to higher practitioners may be a requirement for many of the upper levels of the industries. Stranger things have happened, and the occult influence is utterly undeniable.
"Things derive their being from mutual dependence and are nothing in themselves." -Nagarjuna

"Comprehending beyond good and evil opens the way to perfect skill" Jetsun Milarepa

"Always recognise the dreamlike qualities of life to reduce attachment and aversion." - Jetsun Milarepa

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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

Post by Spida »

Something that runs parallel to this, but slightly more reserved would be those
Bohemian Grove Rituals. Alex Jones did a documentary on it a while back. I think
it was the Busch family that attended, and maybe a few other politicians, and Pundits
scattered about. Some sort of Cremation Of Care Ceremony, using an owl as symbolism.

Madonna a Qabalist? Apparently so. After I heard this. I saw her in some video wearing
Black and Red. The queen scale for Binah and Geburah. Anyone can call themselves a
Qabalist, but the title must be earned. I don't deserve it yet!

There's some really fucked up Occult video with Angelina Jolie floating around YouTube
as well.

I don't care about all this shit. I strip all the BS away and only the truth remains. It's Me
the Earth, Sun, Moon, and Stars. Real and inspiring.

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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

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Okay, reading the mail at wikileaks this is what I see.

An award wining performance artist sends an invitation to a lobbyist who used to work on Bill Clinton's campaign 20 years ago. The spirit cooking cookbook is in the Museum of Modern Art in New York.

The only reason this is relevant is because his brother is now working on the Hillary Clinton campaign.

It's not somebody attending secret occult rituals but a "The dinner, was a reward for donors to a Kickstarter campaign she had run. Tony Podesta has collected her work since the 1990s, and he attended, but John couldn’t make it. In fact, she has never met John Podesta."
So neither Hilary campaign manager, Hillary herself or anyone around her at the moment was involved with this.

Granted, Marinas artwork is a bit bizarre. But satanic? no, Occult? Not really. Painting graffiti with pigs blood isn't in any of the grimoires. It's just silly modern art trying to get peoples attention. If her art is a ritual then 'The Exorcist' is a documentary.

"clairvoyants and tarot cards and didgeridoos and kundalini life forces and monks and gurus"
That's not evil occult secret illuminati satanic rites. That's 90's new age nonsense that was popular at the time. That is the sort of people who bought native american tarot and experimented with pyramid power.

Michelangelo and Raphael made some of the worlds greatest christian art. Mike was a lazy half-drunken slob that was constantly in arguments with the pope and Raph fucked everything that walked and most likely died of STD's. Just because an artist uses religious symbolism doesn't mean that they are hardcore practitioners.

Marina Abramović is absolutely drawing inspiration from religion and new age, but she also quotes David Cronenberg, Björk and Russian drinking games.
Calling her thank you for the donation dinner "spirit cooking dinners" was a really bad choice. Obviously it sounds like there is going to be a dinner involving her spirit cooking artwork which would be really unsettling, but it's a little bit like George Lucas calling his home skywalker ranch. It doesn't mean that George Lucas was luke skywalker in another life, it just means that he is drawing attention to his most successful work.

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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

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Great thread. Some very important ideas. Those who think that the elite or secret societies do not use magick, curses, voodoo and have hidden knowledge of the occult should maybe look within for the truth. We all know that these gifts can be used to do a lot of good or harm. We are very capable and powerful beings and that is the big secret. They need our cooperation for herding and subjugation of humanity, without our feeding their powers, the matrix, or the veil will come down and it is getting thinner by the hour. They have so many control systems in place, once they come down they lose their power and we realize ours.

If you watch videos, etc especially negative ones, all videos on the election, this is a excellent way of programming the mass consciousness, subliminal codes are ingrained into these videos. Feel your body when you watch these, I get headaches. TV programs, heard of that one? The videos right now on the web, watch carefully, love your enemies and you will see their weapons. Their occult symbols are all through our existence. Did a thread about Bird Language showing another possibility of programming the masses by each one of us through language. They are able to somehow control the holographic nature of this simulation program. We are told right from birth we are calculators when in actually we are super computers.

This one is not a political fan either. It is like watching the morning cartoons. [thumbup]
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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

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Abyss wrote:Those who think that the elite or secret societies do not use magick, curses, voodoo and have hidden knowledge of the occult should maybe look within for the truth.
Well of course there is. We know that many influential people are involved in freemasonry and christianity. But this particular case is not part of that.
If you watch videos, etc especially negative ones, all videos on the election, this is a excellent way of programming the mass consciousness, subliminal codes are ingrained into these videos.
To a certain extend yes. I studied advertisement in college and they do use specific language to create ads. And I'm sure there are some out there who tries to take it a step further with NLP. But I donät see how that has anything to do with this.

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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

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Desecrated wrote:
Abyss wrote:Those who think that the elite or secret societies do not use magick, curses, voodoo and have hidden knowledge of the occult should maybe look within for the truth.
Well of course there is. We know that many influential people are involved in freemasonry and christianity. But this particular case is not part of that.
If you watch videos, etc especially negative ones, all videos on the election, this is a excellent way of programming the mass consciousness, subliminal codes are ingrained into these videos.
To a certain extend yes. I studied advertisement in college and they do use specific language to create ads. And I'm sure there are some out there who tries to take it a step further with NLP. But I donät see how that has anything to do with this.
Hi Desecrated: Have responded based on Daud's last sentence "Pretty funny hey? Some people think occultists are weird, and some of us sure are. But at the end of the day, those with knowledge of the occult are the ones with all the power."

Feel this is correct and its goes very deep into society's subjugation and programming of the masses, it is all part of what we call occult and magick, rituals, verbal spells, etc it is in part very ancient secret knowledge and/or alien technology. That is why so many ancient secrets and artifacts that are still being kept hidden because those of the dark side would be able to use this wisdom and cause great harm to humanity. It is great you studied advertising, so you are aware there is always the "target market" and without our belief it has no value. If one goes deeper, you can see how we have rituals for everything in our lives, from getting up in the morning to going to bed at night and through the media/TV/society/Politics/etc. we base how we should live our lives, brush our teeth, look and dress, what is value, feel, eat, work, hierarchy and on and on, it is all interconnected like a spider's web.

Hope that helps to understand what I am trying to say and trying to point to the depth of Daud's message that is seen. Thank you for asking.
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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

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Abyss wrote:
Feel this is correct and its goes very deep into society's subjugation and programming of the masses, it is all part of what we call occult and magick, rituals, verbal spells, etc it is in part very ancient secret knowledge and/or alien technology. That is why so many ancient secrets and artifacts that are still being kept hidden because those of the dark side would be able to use this wisdom and cause great harm to humanity.
I really don't agree with that. We are living in an age of information and it has never before been so easy to get a hold of so called "secret knowledge". There is so much stuff that people back in the 20th century would have killed to get their hands on that you can order on amazon.com nowadays.

And then, honestly, I don't believe in all that alien stuff. And I don't believe there is any evil secret government either. So there is just a departure in how we view reality.

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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

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Conspiracy theories oversimply facts, so it's easy to loose the contact with reality, and let your force away from you. They are also very addictive. If I want to earn some extra money, I would write something like "Conspiracy theories addicts rehab program"...

The other thing is that Marina Abamović is a real genius artist, hard to understand if you are not a professional. I'm sorry that she's facing the same things again, while she was working in Belgrade/Serbia. She's a good person, a very sensitive woman, completely devoted to art. She has a very active social life, knows so many different people, some of them are real monsters, but that's inevitable. Her art is only her art and noting else.

As an European, I'm not much interested in America's politic, but even I can see that Hillary would be the next president of the US, with or without help of evil forces.
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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

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It is wonderful to see such diversity in thoughts. What you believe, you are right, what you do not believe, you are right. Will not try and convince anyone as to my beliefs, just put it out there and do what one believes is right for themselves. It is a blessing to see differences and each one is to learn and grow from, for me the differences bring us together in acceptance not separation. No matter what one believes, feel all of you are brothers and sisters.
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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

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Desecrated wrote:
Abyss wrote:
So there is just a departure in how we view reality.
Hi Desecrated, do you have a thread or can you point me to your views that "there is just a departure of how we view reality". Interested. Thanks
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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

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I think he pretty much summarized it in that same post, you view reality differently, and he explained how in that post.

As far as the artist, I think there are much, much worse "black magicians" out there on youtube and such, but if nothing she is simply gaining popularity through all of this, it can't be hurting her image in any way because people will always be shocked by what she is doing. And we all know that politicians are into the occult. Mailmen are into it, teachers, police officers, prostitutes, every type under the sun. As hopefully educated occultists i think we could read this story a little better, the artist only donated the max she could to hillary's campaign and people are blowing hillary's comments out of proportion. I think if i was into the occult on any level and i had friends that were also into the occult i too would make jokes about sacrificing chickens to moloch, no matter how true or untrue they were, because i would probably hope that they would understand it in context somehow because they are like me, into the occult. If you are truly for/against hillary and are worried/excited about her using magic, just join in with your own magic.
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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

Post by Desecrated »

Abyss wrote:
Desecrated wrote:
Abyss wrote:
So there is just a departure in how we view reality.
Hi Desecrated, do you have a thread or can you point me to your views that "there is just a departure of how we view reality". Interested. Thanks
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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

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I don't believe in conspiracy theories
What exactly does that mean? Are you saying there have never been any conspiracies, ever? Because that's just absurd. Can you be more specific?
Okay, reading the mail at wikileaks this is what I see.

An award wining performance artist sends an invitation to a lobbyist who used to work on Bill Clinton's campaign 20 years ago. The spirit cooking cookbook is in the Museum of Modern Art in New York.

The only reason this is relevant is because his brother is now working on the Hillary Clinton campaign.

It's not somebody attending secret occult rituals but a "The dinner, was a reward for donors to a Kickstarter campaign she had run. Tony Podesta has collected her work since the 1990s, and he attended, but John couldn’t make it. In fact, she has never met John Podesta."
So neither Hilary campaign manager, Hillary herself or anyone around her at the moment was involved with this.

Granted, Marinas artwork is a bit bizarre. But satanic? no, Occult? Not really. Painting graffiti with pigs blood isn't in any of the grimoires. It's just silly modern art trying to get peoples attention. If her art is a ritual then 'The Exorcist' is a documentary.

"clairvoyants and tarot cards and didgeridoos and kundalini life forces and monks and gurus"
That's not evil occult secret illuminati satanic rites. That's 90's new age nonsense that was popular at the time. That is the sort of people who bought native american tarot and experimented with pyramid power.

Michelangelo and Raphael made some of the worlds greatest christian art. Mike was a lazy half-drunken slob that was constantly in arguments with the pope and Raph fucked everything that walked and most likely died of STD's. Just because an artist uses religious symbolism doesn't mean that they are hardcore practitioners.

Marina Abramović is absolutely drawing inspiration from religion and new age, but she also quotes David Cronenberg, Björk and Russian drinking games.
Calling her thank you for the donation dinner "spirit cooking dinners" was a really bad choice. Obviously it sounds like there is going to be a dinner involving her spirit cooking artwork which would be really unsettling, but it's a little bit like George Lucas calling his home skywalker ranch. It doesn't mean that George Lucas was luke skywalker in another life, it just means that he is drawing attention to his most successful work.
I never said anything about "evil occult secret illuminati satanic rites." All I said is that there's solid evidence that a) This artist is involved in occult practices (and if you don't think that video is a ritual, you either need to watch it again or you have a very different idea of what a "ritual" entails than I do), b) that she is connected to influential figures in the political scene, and c) that Hillary Clinton claims to be in contact with the deceased spirit of Eleanor Roosevelt.

I think to jump from that evidence to claims of embedded satanic conspiracies or secret occult societies dominating world politics is a pretty huge reach, but I think it's equally absurd to just write it off as "conspiracy theory nonsense." As always, I imagine the truth lies somewhere between the two extremes.
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'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
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cut by cut it is honed to perfection"

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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

Post by Desecrated »

Rin wrote: I never said anything about "evil occult secret illuminati satanic rites." All I said is that there's solid evidence that a) This artist is involved in occult practices (and if you don't think that video is a ritual, you either need to watch it again or you have a very different idea of what a "ritual" entails than I do),
That wasn't necessarily directed at you, I was sidestepping into the narrative of the sites reporting this.
Yeah, you can call it a ritual, I guess it is somewhat ritualistic in format, but all I really see is an immature human playing around for attention. There was so much shit like this going on in the 90's NY artscene that this doesn't even stand out as the worst.
b) that she is connected to influential figures in the political scene
Which we covered.
c) that Hillary Clinton claims to be in contact with the deceased spirit of Eleanor Roosevelt.
Not really. Influenced yes, conjuring necromancy, no.
I think to jump from that evidence to claims of embedded satanic conspiracies or secret occult societies dominating world politics is a pretty huge reach, but I think it's equally absurd to just write it off as "conspiracy theory nonsense." As always, I imagine the truth lies somewhere between the two extremes.
The connections are so superficial that it's not even worth mentioning. 1 e-mail out of 30.000 that has a vague connection to "something" that looks occult on the surface. And it's not even involving the person getting smeared either. On the list of her political scandals this shouldn't even register.

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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

Post by Rin »

Desecrated wrote: That wasn't necessarily directed at you, I was sidestepping into the narrative of the sites reporting this.
Yeah, you can call it a ritual, I guess it is somewhat ritualistic in format, but all I really see is an immature human playing around for attention. There was so much shit like this going on in the 90's NY artscene that this doesn't even stand out as the worst.
Did you watch the video in full? Especially the end part, where the participants are told to:

"FACE THE WALL
PRESS YOUR HEAD AGAINST
THE MINERAL PILLOW
WAIT UNTIL THE ENERGY IS
TRANSMITTED"

Either she had definite metaphysical intent behind the work, or she's pretending to do so. Given that she's quite obviously and openly interested in metaphysical matters, the latter seems far more likely. By every piece of evidence we have available, Marina counts herself a genuine occult practitioner and believes in literal metaphysical forces at play within her work. This doesn't make her evil, or some kind of satanist or part of an Illuminati style conspiracy, but there's no use in just pretending it isn't the case.
Not really. Influenced yes, conjuring necromancy, no.
She claims to be in direct conversation with the spirit. Or at least, that is what Bill says she told him to say in that particular speech (I'm under the impression there's other evidence of Hillary's spiritual contact out there, but I haven't really looked into it). I wouldn't necessarily call that necromancy, but my point is that this isn't all just "conspiracy nonsense." To the contrary - it's hardly a conspiracy if she's having Bill discuss it openly. I think the fact that it doesn't get more attention is worth speculating on though, given how great of a force evangelical Christianity (which would certainly frown on such behavior) is in American politics.
The connections are so superficial that it's not even worth mentioning. 1 e-mail out of 30.000 that has a vague connection to "something" that looks occult on the surface. And it's not even involving the person getting smeared either. On the list of her political scandals this shouldn't even register.
[/quote]

I agree that it's far less important than a lot of the other evidence which has surfaced and which is still surfacing regarding Hillary, Bill and the Clinton foundation, and I personally care much less about any involvement in "occult" style activities than I do about charges of voter fraud, political corruption, financial improprieties, sexual assault and concomitant coverups.

After all, I'm involved in "occult" activities myself, as are most of the people in this conversation. I find it interesting, but I don't think it's necessarily some kind of moral indictment.

The main point I'm trying to make here is that leaping to conclusions isn't a good idea, whether that conclusion is "Hillary is a member of the Illuminati and regularly attends baby-eating child-raping satanic orgies with other politicians in return for power," or whether it's "Hillary is just a regular politican trying to advance her career and any claims of troubling behavior are smears by Russian hackers and conspiracy whackjobs." I think each is as bad as the other.
"The path of the Sage is called
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"

- DDJ, Verse 27

"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett

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WillowDarkWytch
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Re: "Spirit Cooking" in democratic party.

Post by WillowDarkWytch »

Motumbá Àse,

In Chile, it's known in the esoteric and occult circles that a lot of politicians have spiritual advisores and occultists working for them. I know that for a fact because very close people (in the order) have been invited to participate. In the 80's, one of my closest occult friend was invited to a "psychic protection" group for Augusto Pinochet (the dictator president at that time) an she refused.

In Cuba, Castro has Santeros working for him, in Venezuela, the ATR and ADR practitioners KNOW that the late Chavez was initiated in Palo Mayombe.

SO, if that stuff happens in a small coutry like Chile, and latinamerica, imagine what happens behind the politics of a country like USA.

I do get the point that Des is trying to make, I think that most pop culture uses occult imagery just as a fashionable "design", maybe Abramovic has spiritual and occult thinking but that doesn't make her an actual occultist.

Saravá
Idansinají

PS1: Des, Native American Tarot may have pretty designs! xD
PS2: I use quotation marks in "psychic protection group" because it was clearly a fascist black magicians group... I know it because after my friend refused to join them they threaten her and psychicly attacked her, actually they did messed up her life a lot, but thanks to the gods and occult friends she came out ok and victorious :)
"Kosi Ewe Kosi Orìṣà"
- Yoruba Tradition

"Water which is too pure has no fish"
- form the Ts'ai Ken T'an

"No enunciation of the Truth will ever be complete, no method of training will ever be suitable for all temperaments..."
- Dion Fortune

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