What is Jesus

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Cerber
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Re: What is Jesus

Post by Cerber »

While I agree to the most part, that just because some things are practised by some people, it doesn't automatically validate or vindicate it as appropriate or acceptable. In general. Otherwise one can easily vindicate paedophilia, rape, cannibalism, human sacrifice and many other things that can be used to enhance magic(k) of the darker kinds. Just saying. Purely theoretically speaking, in general.
I still have that dilemma, sort of, do you approve and employ teachings from a person that used questionable methods to develop those teachings? Or we just do cherry picking? how does it work for you guys?
I personally usually don't, I will probably never read any book that was written by, or influenced by some people whose methods I can't approve for whatever reason.
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Re: What is Jesus

Post by Shawn Blackwolf »

I just googled and grabbed the first site I saw...

Witch's Bible , by the Farrars , deals with the scourge ;

As well , all you have to do , is research the traditions mentioned in that article

you are rejecting , to see the scourge and whipping has long been used in various

spiritual practices...

Bondage ?

What , you want some academic book , or source ?

Sorry , I deal in the reality , of trance work , and magic...not academia...

Now , I never said BDSM was linked to spiritual development...

But others have linked flagellation to it through time...

Binding the body in yoga positions for long periods...

Laying on a bed of nails...

My statement stands , whether you agree or not...

Those practices are used in occult practice , and should not be hidden , or

covered up , by those who choose not to use them...

Now if the site has a rule against these mentions , please let me know ,

and I shall bow to it...but if not , then it is part of occult practice for some ,

and I see no problem mentioning so...

With due respect , Violetstar , that is my position... [wink]

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Re: What is Jesus

Post by violetstar »

The way you portrayed BDSM was an inference it had some connection to spirituality.This is how it comes across to us.For example Cerber remarked how he could not visualise you involved with BDSM at your age.This alone shows how people associate BDSM with sexual rather than spiritual connotations.

Again,you quote Wiccan writers and take the concepts of scourging,Bed of Nails etc out of context in attempt to fit them into your BDSM beliefs,which you are entitled to.Your argument stands only within your own beliefs.

As to the rules of the forum that is none of my business.
Woe if I reveal,Woe if I do not reveal...

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Re: What is Jesus

Post by Shawn Blackwolf »

Incorrect , as far as I can see...

My post , regarding BDSM , was in answer to what Landing asked what I thought unconventional was...

Now , I do not know what path you follow , nor where you are located , or the prejudices of your beliefs...

Yet , I am located in the United States , in California , and these practices have long been discussed

at Pagan gatherings , my friend's daughter wrote a book on Witchcraft and sexuality , * other friends

of mine founded Ravenheart Community , and the polyamorous community , with it's sometimes interesting

practices , and I have attended a number of Witchcraft rituals , where these practices were used , and occurred...

Obviously , we have had different experiences...I am not *trying* to fit anything into my beliefs...

I was introduced to the practices by the Pagan community... [wink]

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaSara_FireFox

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Cerber
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Re: What is Jesus

Post by Cerber »

You were educated about sex by a lesbian lady? [confused]
I hope mildly inappropriate jokes are not banned yet
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Re: What is Jesus

Post by Shawn Blackwolf »

No , Cerber , just lovers in the Pagan community , and the larger Pagan community itself...

And believe me , in her younger years , Lasara was most definitely not lesbian...

I have known her since she was a young girl , as I lived on the same ranch as her mother

and father , and have been a friend of her mother for 40 + years...

I knew her boyfriends , and interacted with their family...

And here is an article on one of the huge pagan events I go to...

It is a yearly event , with many different workshops...

Thousands of people attend , we take over the whole place , for 4 days , or more...

This was one of the workshops...

http://www.vocativ.com/305430/inside-th ... tice-bdsm/

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Re: What is Jesus

Post by Cerber »

A BDSM workshop with thousands of people "working" at the same place? That would be an interesting sight. Got any pictures?
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Re: What is Jesus

Post by Shawn Blackwolf »

And just to show the varying traditions , and workshops presented , and
the validity of the festival / conference , here is the schedule from 2017...

https://pantheacon2017.sched.com/2017-0 ... scriptions

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Re: What is Jesus

Post by Cerber »

Shawn Blackwolf wrote:And just to show the varying traditions , and workshops presented , and
the validity of the festival / conference , here is the schedule from 2017...

https://pantheacon2017.sched.com/2017-0 ... scriptions
You do realise that most of them are about the same thing, more or less?

I think we are going too far off topic. My dear friend Stukov will be having nightmares..
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Re: What is Jesus

Post by Shawn Blackwolf »

I offered to bring it back a while ago...shall we ?

( And no , they are all different traditions , presentations , and beliefs , yet all Pagan )

So , in my Tradition , we show how the cross used to symbolize the "Cross of Christ"

came from the Hebrew Tree of Life , with Da'ath , being the crossing point into the upper realms...

My Tradition , as well , does not use the name Jesus Christ , yet Yehoshua ( Hebrew ) Christos ( Runic ) ,

which has a value by gematria , of 702...which in Hebrew :

702 = BN / Ben , meaning Son...

Whereas Christos = 311 , Runically , which equals in Hebrew :

311 = Man

So , as Christos , the Man...

As Yehoshua Christos , the Son...

Yet , in Hebrew , Yehoshua , equalling 391 , has the same value as :

391 = Heaven , Sky

391 = Inner Light

391 = Shaman

390 = Call Angels Army Together

As well many other things...

Yet , we also teach , in the Tradition :

702 = Lusifurge

So it is , in our Tradition , all perception...

We also say , if one can cross the Abyss of Da'ath , without an intercessor...

Yehoshua Christos , Lusifurge , Osiris , or any sacrificed god , more power to them... [thumbup]

Yet , if they need one , one is there...
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Cerber
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Re: What is Jesus

Post by Cerber »

How do you interpret all that?
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Re: What is Jesus

Post by Shawn Blackwolf »

Just like I said it , Cerber...( said with full respect )

If one needs an intercessor , to get to what one may choose to view as "heaven" ,
they may use Yehoshua Christos , or other variants of a sacrificed godform...

But that is only if one follows the path of belief in the Hebraic / Christian belief system...

With other gods overlaid over that from other traditions...

My Tradition , does not follow that path...

We just see where all the different beliefs came from , then choose whatever suits
our purposes in the moment...for others , it is the "only way"...

I personally am not a believer in any gods , until it suits a need and purpose...

I am not sure , no matter what so called evidence has been produced , academic ,
or otherwise , a person such as that actually existed...I know how the ancient code
was used to write many myths and stories , and what my Tradition calls storybooks ,
or sacred texts and scriptures from different traditions...

We respect that others believe in their deities , and their books...

We just do not "buy into them"...

How do you see Jesus ? Or the stories of him , and what he represents ?

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Re: What is Jesus

Post by Cerber »

Shawn Blackwolf wrote: How do you see Jesus ? Or the stories of him , and what he represents ?
To me (in my opinion, feeling, belief):
Stories of him are just that - stories. There is some truth in it, I'm sure, most of that truth in between the lines, I'm sure as well.
Now He him self is an arrogant power greedy self righteous vanity filled d!ck. I can't pinpoint exactly why or when I developed these sort of feelings towards him, but it runs deep.
What I think he represents? I believe in symbols and their hidden meanings, I believe they reveal so much when you actually take time and effort look deep in to them. There is one symbol that sums up all that he represents, at least to me:
crossglobe.jpg
and here in different setting:
AKG249451.jpg
His true goal, purpose, driving force, his god's plan, divine intent - Authority over All (at least "All" of this world)
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Re: What is Jesus

Post by inMalkuth »

Shawn Blackwolf wrote:Just like I said it , Cerber...( said with full respect )

If one needs an intercessor , to get to what one may choose to view as "heaven" ,
they may use Yehoshua Christos , or other variants of a sacrificed godform...

But that is only if one follows the path of belief in the Hebraic / Christian belief system...

With other gods overlaid over that from other traditions...

My Tradition , does not follow that path...

We just see where all the different beliefs came from , then choose whatever suits
our purposes in the moment...for others , it is the "only way"...

I personally am not a believer in any gods , until it suits a need and purpose...

We respect that others believe in their deities , and their books...

We just do not "buy into them"...

How do you see Jesus ? Or the stories of him , and what he represents ?

Thank you for posting your view on this, Only this morning did I finalize my understanding that is nearly identical.

People have a problem with how I present my ideas. I see it as this: I know XXXXX and I understand XXXXX and I come to a discussion form to express XXXXX and fully expect that someone else will consider XXXXX and comment on XXXX without assaulting me. The reason for my aggression to you is that I have developed a prejudice against this place because I have been verbally assaulted for expressing my XXXX in a way that other people dont like. It isnt because XXXXX is such a terrible idea, its because they decided they dont like how I communicate. I either have to bend my will to theirs and speak to them the way they want me to, or I do it my way. Unfortunately this makes me defensive, and that is on me.

I really am sorry that we got into an argument over what I still believe to be a true statement, though I see why you contested it.

A fact is a fact until proven to the observer otherwise, and even then it is still a fact, because it once was, and probably will be considered to be one again. In the pursuit of expressing our opinions I try to be careful not to insult people. Lesson learned I hope.

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Re: What is Jesus

Post by Shawn Blackwolf »

Good enough by me... [thumbup]

Let's all move on , and do our absolute best to better ourselves in our communications...

( until the next "fresh meat" comes along... [lookleft] ...Just Kidding ! )

You said something in the other thread this morning...( by my geographical timeline ) ,
and it was on getting along , I figure I'll just comment on here , because it pertains...

In my offline , real life , my friends and I give each other "hard times" all the time... [moresarcasm]

We "pull each other's legs" , we "push buttons" , we "string each other along" , or make puns , jokes
and are sarcastic...but we do it in fun , with love , and also commiserate , feel sympathy , assist ,
inform , and are there if someone truly needs us...

Do we always get along ?

Of course not...

Do we always agree ?

Far from it...

Do we call each other assholes if we / they act that way ?

You betcha...

Do we then go have a beer , smoke some herb , or watch the river , or sunset ?

Most often , yes...

Do we need a break from each other , now and then ?

Most definitely...

Do we expect or assume anything from each other ?

Well , with every expectation , there is a fair chance of disappointment , with every
assumation , we set ourselves up to be called you know what...

If we make statements regarding the way things are for everyone , with no room for
others opinions , ways , beliefs , etc... , what happens ?

Well , that friend , has found themselves temporarily , ( or permanently ) ostracized ,
avoided , berated , criticized , verbally beaten down , had smoke blown in their face ,
called names , or the worst , was finding out their kayak had a small hole drilled in it ,
when they were out on the river , temporarily sealed with wax , that gave way... [shock2]

But we love each other... [thumbup]

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Re: What is Jesus

Post by inMalkuth »

Nice, well thanks for letting us know more about you.

I am not of that sort of character anymore. There was a time when I was like you and I enjoyed myself, was loyal absolutely, and teased people. One day I realized with horror that what was happening from me is that I was exercising my will from a place that wasnt properly analyzed. I stopped teasing, I stopped making jokes, I chose not to laugh at fault and folly. When I laugh it is because someone has a wonderful observation, or when I am filled with excitement for the joy of discovery, or celebration at success. When I do laugh at folly and fault, it is my own and not someone elses.

I am also extremely open minded. I expect my ideas to be challenged. I expect to be shown that I am wrong, and I expect it to be done with kindness and grace. That is an unreasonable expectation, but when I do this for someone else, that is my goal, and I often fail. When I declare an observation, which took a long time to arrive at, my hope is that someone out in this big world will see where I am and wave. I dont expect them to walk over and stand by me, but I put it in such a way that, should they choose to follow where I have gone, they have a road map to that place. Im not even saying the place I am in is "the" place, Im just saying "Hey, I am over here". It hurts me a lot to hear people say I am a dictator, because that is not the case, and I would gladly come to where you are should I be able to navigate up that path with the map you drew.

So this is me; attempts at sincerity and precision without the usual embittered attitude that would prevent me from looking within myself for a more pure form of truth. I am a man of extremes and of moderation. I believe in love and good will, and that we all realize our own errors, or try to. If you want to talk to me then talk to me, and when I am speaking from my truth and you object, then speak of your truth, or imagine what it is like to be in mine. We all exist, and we all think, and we all should have something to say. Respect that.

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Re: What is Jesus

Post by Shawn Blackwolf »

Thanks for that sharing...

However , I am a firm believer we all should laugh at and with each other , and the universe ,
let alone gods , goddesses , and any other entity or being...I have such deep laugh lines , they
are the only wrinkles that show... [thumbup]

I am of the Faery Tradition...we love to play and tease , and despise , if not hate rudeness...

Now , when you finished your last post , with "Respect That" , I felt that was an order , and it felt rude to me...

Just so you know...

As far as respecting others , I do so , 90 % of the time , at least , if they are being non - rude , ( as I see it ) ,
and not telling me what to do , how to be , what is right or wrong , or how we should all see something the same way...

If they do that , all gloves are off , and the battle begins...and I take no prisoners...nor should I have to... [wink ]

P.s. I do despise the idea of academic need for proof , those who demand empirical evidence , and demean others
if they do not have it... [moresarcasm]

We all want to be respected...we can not demand it...but we can defend our physical , mental , emotional , and
psychic territory... [thumbup]

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Re: What is Jesus

Post by inMalkuth »

I am glad we are similar in qualities. One thing Id like to point out is that my final "respect that" had nothing to do with the individual, but with the individual rights that we all should share.

Cheers

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Re: What is Jesus

Post by chowderpope »

inMalkuth wrote:I am glad we are similar in qualities. One thing Id like to point out is that my final "respect that" had nothing to do with the individual, but with the individual rights that we all should share.

Cheers
All right, so to clarify, you were commanding that everyone respects certain rights? So it was still a command, nonetheless. Did I read that right?

The thing is, I respect everyone until they give me a reason not to. You can say you learned a lesson about communication, but I have a feeling that it will take years for the waterfall to chip away at that particular stone. I don't mean to brag too hard (Well maybe I do) but I've been complimented for my diplomatic approach to dealing with others, and I developed that skill through years of working under stressful conditions in teams made up of varied personalities and backgrounds. Something tells me you do not have the same degree of real world experience, and again, I think it will take years for the waterfall to shape the stone. Clearly, you have a knack for language, I just don't think the experience, knowledge, wisdom, or communication skills are up there with it yet. I do wish you luck on the long road ahead. And I wish myself luck on the long road ahead too because the finish line is ever beyond the horizon.
Awake from sleep! Remember you're the son of a Great King, see to whom you're enslaved!

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Re: What is Jesus

Post by Shawn Blackwolf »

Communication Central ?

Can You Hear Me , Communication Central ?

Approaching Event Horizon...Is Major Tom There ?
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Re: What is Jesus

Post by chowderpope »

Did you hear/see Bowie's final album Black Star? It's my favorite thing that he's done. The videos he made for the album are particularly interesting and have a bunch of weird and occult imagery.
Awake from sleep! Remember you're the son of a Great King, see to whom you're enslaved!

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Re: What is Jesus

Post by inMalkuth »

Wow. i could say "The Sun is shining bright today" and you would accuse me of forcing you to believe something. [cry2]

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Re: What is Jesus

Post by Shawn Blackwolf »

inMalkuth wrote:Wow. i could say "The Sun is shining bright today" and you would accuse me of forcing you to believe something. [cry2]

We be cool at this time... [cool]

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Re: What is Jesus

Post by chowderpope »

inMalkuth wrote:Wow. i could say "The Sun is shining bright today" and you would accuse me of forcing you to believe something. [cry2]
I disagree. [thumbup]
Awake from sleep! Remember you're the son of a Great King, see to whom you're enslaved!

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Re: What is Jesus

Post by landing »

I read lately that Jesus is actually the egpytian god Rama, also called Ra....
wow, how do u think of this?

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