Why most occultists are dirt poor?

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Draco20
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Why most occultists are dirt poor?

Post by Draco20 »

It just seems to be a fact that most occultist, famous or not, lean towards meager income or downright poverty. Why?

Can they not conjure up money? Become rich?

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AbraxianChaos
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Re: Why most occultists are dirt poor?

Post by AbraxianChaos »

Only the most shallow of magicians would spend all of their time "conjuring" to be rich. Most of us are here for reasons other than quick wealth, and I can say personally that I have no desire to be monetarily rich. Money is energy, but it is not the energy I am particularly interested in having. If I need something I can typically get it. It has been that way before I studied Magick. I've always had a way to work my will.
"The hero is he who smashes idols... and the idol of every man is his ego." - Ibn Arabi

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chowderpope
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Re: Why most occultists are dirt poor?

Post by chowderpope »

I do magic for money, but for the money that I need.

I've been watching Survivor, the old reality TV show, a lot lately. The first winner of that show won a million dollars, didn't pay his taxes properly and went to prison for several years. Then later, another winner fell into life-threatening alcoholism after winning.

One of my childhood friends inherited a fortune and he lives a lonely, sad life. He told me he's considered suicide.

Wealth isn't everything. I live my life on a path of purpose that's not focused on hedonistic values.
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Desecrated
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Re: Why most occultists are dirt poor?

Post by Desecrated »

Draco20 wrote:It just seems to be a fact that most occultist, famous or not, lean towards meager income or downright poverty. Why?

Can they not conjure up money? Become rich?
Because most of them are frauds.

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chowderpope
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Re: Why most occultists are dirt poor?

Post by chowderpope »

If I think about it though, wouldn't it make sense for some of the frauds to be the richest ones? Take Sylvia Browne and John Edward for example. But I know what you mean, that the frauds didn't do effective magic to make money. I think if magic could really make fortunes, it would have already been exploited to the point of global annihilation. There would be no humanity left on the Earth if there weren't some checks and balances keeping idiots who go on forums spell begging for love spells from making everyone want to marry them. By now we would all be married to some teenager who read Wicca for Dummies.
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AbraxianChaos
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Re: Why most occultists are dirt poor?

Post by AbraxianChaos »

chowderpope wrote:If I think about it though, wouldn't it make sense for some of the frauds to be the richest ones? Take Sylvia Browne and John Edward for example. But I know what you mean, that the frauds didn't do effective magic to make money. I think if magic could really make fortunes, it would have already been exploited to the point of global annihilation. There would be no humanity left on the Earth if there weren't some checks and balances keeping idiots who go on forums spell begging for love spells from making everyone want to marry them. By now we would all be married to some teenager who read Wicca for Dummies.
I was once married to someone who read Wicca for Dummies.

Surprise ending...

It didn't last.
"The hero is he who smashes idols... and the idol of every man is his ego." - Ibn Arabi

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chowderpope
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Re: Why most occultists are dirt poor?

Post by chowderpope »

They did not perform the proper binding! [rofl]

For real though I have nothing against Dummies books. I just started one on Astrology.
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AbraxianChaos
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Re: Why most occultists are dirt poor?

Post by AbraxianChaos »

chowderpope wrote:They did not perform the proper binding! [rofl]

For real though I have nothing against Dummies books. I just started one on Astrology.
I also have no issues with Dummies books. They are a great intro to something you might want to get into. I read one on Islam right before I "reverted." That reversion only lasted about 2 full years. My downfall was getting involved in Shi'a Islam and then getting into all the heretical Sufi stuff. Once you start making excuses for and siding with Iblis... well... you might as well walk away.
"The hero is he who smashes idols... and the idol of every man is his ego." - Ibn Arabi

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chowderpope
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Re: Why most occultists are dirt poor?

Post by chowderpope »

I dunno anything about Islam but some coworkers were trying to convert me once. I visited a mosque with them but didn't bite.

Sufism is the cool mystical aspect of Islam right? That's the direction I would go. Dunno if I would get involved with the other stuff. Culturally speaking, it'd be easier for me to go to an exoteric Christian church if I wanted that kind of thing.
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Re: Why most occultists are dirt poor?

Post by Desecrated »

chowderpope wrote:If I think about it though, wouldn't it make sense for some of the frauds to be the richest ones? Take Sylvia Browne and John Edward for example. But I know what you mean, that the frauds didn't do effective magic to make money. I think if magic could really make fortunes, it would have already been exploited to the point of global annihilation. There would be no humanity left on the Earth if there weren't some checks and balances keeping idiots who go on forums spell begging for love spells from making everyone want to marry them. By now we would all be married to some teenager who read Wicca for Dummies.
That is assuming that those spells are easy to perform.

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Re: Why most occultists are dirt poor?

Post by inMalkuth »

I like what pope said about spellwork would have already been exploited that made me smile.

Magick isnt about making money appear. Its about forming your worldview into something that inspires you to do things, one of those things may or may not be an ability or desire to make money. Occultists can be peaceful and prudent and live an austere lifestyle and write books about the joys of poverty (which no one will likely buy, thus ensuring that the author remains poor) or they can discover invention and adventure and lust for things which lead them into wealth. The difference I suppose is that "an occultist" in the sense you are naming them are authors or practicing magicians who dedicated their lives to sharing information, and they arent usually wealthy. There are people that have studied the occult, however, who would be considered to be occultists, who are very wealthy. In history there have been a number of figures that were magicians that were employed by kings.

Personally I think we are all occultists in a fashion.

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AbraxianChaos
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Re: Why most occultists are dirt poor?

Post by AbraxianChaos »

chowderpope wrote:I dunno anything about Islam but some coworkers were trying to convert me once. I visited a mosque with them but didn't bite.

Sufism is the cool mystical aspect of Islam right? That's the direction I would go. Dunno if I would get involved with the other stuff. Culturally speaking, it'd be easier for me to go to an exoteric Christian church if I wanted that kind of thing.
I don't know how I got to Islam. I spent the better part of my 20s bouncing from one thing to another, trying to extract some sort of meaning from it. I somehow never even considered that many, if not all, of my answers might be found in occult knowledge. I guess there was a hint of that as I was experimenting with the mystical side of Islam (and Christianity as I deeply researched the Gnostics)... but I didn't fully find this path until much later.
"The hero is he who smashes idols... and the idol of every man is his ego." - Ibn Arabi

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Re: Why most occultists are dirt poor?

Post by Mr. Fenrir »

Desecrated wrote:
Draco20 wrote:It just seems to be a fact that most occultist, famous or not, lean towards meager income or downright poverty. Why?

Can they not conjure up money? Become rich?
Because most of them are frauds.
^^^^This.
The ones who really got rich through their occult skills are not known. (If there were any) If you had succeed this way you wouldn't want others to get rich. (Human nature unfortunately) Plus you could say the same about most scientists too, if industrialists didn't give them money for their research they couldn't do reasearch as they wouldn't have money to buy equipment.

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Re: Why most occultists are dirt poor?

Post by Desecrated »

I'll try and answer this a bit more serious.

Magic is a paradox.
Most people get into it because they want something out of it. In fact, I don't think you have what it takes to reach the higher levels without an almost obsessive drive and motivation.
However, to reach the highest levels you need to cast of silly things like desire for money, sex or fame.
And it's only at those levels that you can actually manifest your will onto reality.

Basically, the only way to be able to perform magic that can actually change the mundane world, you need to reach to a spiritual level were mundane things don't mater to you anymore.

----------------------------------------------------------

Part 2.

There is actually some famous magicians that are doing well for themselves. Not in that sense that they have millions of dollars on a bank account, but if they need something in their life it seems to manifest itself. I've seen people who have a certain flow in their life that things just come to them very easy.sometimes things they don't even need or desired at the moment, but things that can come in hand later on.
But to achieve that flow they are also very outgoing, very sociable and they also sell, buy, trade and move things around. That way things tend to move in their direction as well.

And this bring me to the next part:

Magic is a verb.
I've seen to many practitioners doing rituals for things and then not doing anything else for these things to manifest. Doing magic is at best like opening a door. but if you don't step through that door, it will close itself.
Doing magic for money and then sitting on your couch and just waiting for it will never do anything. Do a spell for money might instead mean that you get a chance to work overtime or get your vacation cut of. You'll get a little bit of encouragement from the universe, but you still have to do most of the work yourself.

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Re: Why most occultists are dirt poor?

Post by inMalkuth »

I talk about this in another post, about whether losing our humanity in the attempt to help mankind would make us ineligible for a position to do so.

The common state of man is to seek pleasure. Forget that, and you lose sight of all of it.

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Napoli
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Re: Why most occultists are dirt poor?

Post by Napoli »

Another point is that they are not that powerful to become filthy rich.
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Re: Why most occultists are dirt poor?

Post by Desecrated »

inMalkuth wrote:
The common state of man is to seek pleasure. Forget that, and you lose sight of all of it.
What man is, and what we are supposed to do with ourself is pretty much the basic of late Greek philosophy. Epicurus might agree with you, but Plato wouldn't.

If you haven't already done so I highly recommend listening to Dr Arthur F Holmes lectures about the stoic, cynics, epicureans and Plato/Aristotle.

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Re: Why most occultists are dirt poor?

Post by the_spiral »

Is that a "fact", though? I've met plenty of rich occultists. It's just that the ones who scream the loudest about being occultists tend to be the ones with not much else going for them [wink]
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Re: Why most occultists are dirt poor?

Post by 777Sloan »

Can the accumulation of stuff and/or funny munny be a corresponding reflection of magic ability? Sure.

That said, a magic practitioner may find it more meaningful to invest energy in directly manifesting what they desire, rather than goofing around with middlemen systems such as fiat currency.

Generally, any system of control invented by another mortal isn't something for which I personally care to submit energy. Though others may be, respectfully, more inclined to submissive temperament.

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