Crowley,newage,true occult....what?

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landing
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Crowley,newage,true occult....what?

Post by landing »

Lately i met people keep warning me about Crowley and golden dawn, saying they r new age occult and they r false.
but what i m reading and watching such as the book Modern magick and youtube ( including wicca and witchcraft ), r all influenced by Crowley ,Blavatsky,etc.

They say the true hermetic tradition is by the Greek.
Golden Dawn and Theosophical Society teaches what they know about Kabbalah, Gnosticism , Hinduism and Buddhism, but what they taught r wrong information, they mislead people.

So,what is real occult, real magick?
i start to ask .... today i even received an email from an occultist,he said the real magick is mysticism and it is Labyrinth-Maypole Dances. i didnt know things about this Labyrinth-Maypole Dances and even dont understand the image he attached....

so, what is real hermetic knowledge,
Can i still trust Kabbalah, Gnosticism , Hinduism and Buddhism?
if not,and what is the difference from his teachings and the others?

someone says a true magician should be able to handle his personal life, but Crowley was addicted
to drug and led a bad lifestyle, suffered physical disease all his life and died in pain.

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landing
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Re: Crowley,newage,true occult....what?

Post by landing »

and also Goetia, Crowley made a lot attribution , can i still trust Goetia? also wicca ,witchcraft, pagan...

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Re: Crowley,newage,true occult....what?

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landing wrote:Lately i met people keep warning me about Crowley and golden dawn, saying they r new age occult and they r false.
but what i m reading and watching such as the book Modern magick and youtube ( including wicca and witchcraft ), r all influenced by Crowley ,Blavatsky,etc.
They are incomplete or incorrect, but we do build our modern systems on what they did.
They say the true hermetic tradition is by the Greek.
Golden Dawn and Theosophical Society teaches what they know about Kabbalah, Gnosticism , Hinduism and Buddhism, but what they taught r wrong information, they mislead people.
It's not misleading for the sake of being evil. They did the best with the information they had at the time, and since then, we have found more information, corrected some of the old mistakes and built upon what they built.

There is hermetic and hermeticism. One is referring to the old Greek style, and one is referring to what came after the Renaissance.
So,what is real occult, real magick?
i start to ask .... today i even received an email from an occultist,he said the real magick is mysticism and it is Labyrinth-Maypole Dances. i didnt know things about this Labyrinth-Maypole Dances and even dont understand the image he attached....
Labyrinths and maypoles are what most people call folk magic. They are elements in some forms of witchcraft. There is also a lot of Neopagans who confuse these rituals, and I recommend looking into your local tradition. Here in Sweden we have a similar pole raising festival, but it turns out it's not actually pagan, It's medieval.
There is a lot of stuff we though was pagan 100 years ago that now with accurate dating shows to be a lot more modern then we used to think.
so, what is real hermetic knowledge,
Can i still trust Kabbalah, Gnosticism , Hinduism and Buddhism?
if not,and what is the difference from his teachings and the others?
There has always been this trend in western thinking of including everything into everything else.
It's called 'philosophia perennis' and basically assumes that all religion share it's core values.

Originally, Hermeticism was the mixture of Egyptian, and Greek religions. (simplified version of what actually happened)
Obviously this also led to Jewish and christian influences. (simplified version)
Neoplatonism and such. (simplified version)
During the Renaissance Jewish mysticism and Kabbalah was added. (simplified version)
During the golden dawn period Indian philosophy like Hindu and Buddhism was added. (simplified version)
And now people are talking about quantum physics and so on.
someone says a true magician should be able to handle his personal life, but Crowley was addicted to drug and led a bad lifestyle, suffered physical disease all his life and died in pain.
Crowley was a flawed human being. I personally think his writing was flawed as well, and if it was up to me, I would scrub his existence from history. BUT some people like him.
The good thing is that you don't need to study his writings anymore, because there are better modern texts available.
landing wrote:and also Goetia, Crowley made a lot attribution , can i still trust Goetia? also wicca ,witchcraft, pagan...
If you want to study Goetia you need to read the new translations, get up to speed with what is going on right now and then study it. We do not have complete translations of all the texts yet. And since Crowley, A.E Waite and Matters fucked up, it has taken a lot of time just to redo their work.
If you want to work with Goetia as it stands right now, you must learn greek, french, latin, english and preferable hebrew.

The origin of wicca is a bunch of bullshit. However I do recommend some books on wicca form time to time, because they have some fun ideas about magic.

Witchcraft suffers the same as Goetia. We are desperately trying to scrub ourself free from the stain that wicca left, but the texts are few and far apart.
Last edited by Desecrated on Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Crowley,newage,true occult....what?

Post by Desecrated »

Here are some books you should read:

Anoine Faivre - Access to Western Esotericism
David s Katz - The occult tradition
Oven Davies - Grimoires
Ronald Hutton - The triumph of the moon

Those should give you a good understanding of the historical background needed.
There are obviously more books, but those 4 are really easy to read, pretty cheap and easy to get.

When it comes to the goetia the reading list becomes a lot larger, but Oven Davies explains the problems of studying it pretty good in his book including what is and isn't included in Goetia and western esotericism.

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Re: Crowley,newage,true occult....what?

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One small detail the New Age 'Wizards' seem to forget.The Goetic type Grimoires carry a strict and rigid regime of preparation before the actual operations can even be attempted.Here is an example:

"The Pseudo-Solomonic texts are particularly insistent on the need for ascetic regimen – the regimen animarum which Gregory had bequeathed to the middle ages as the Ars Artium – with its attendant mortifying corporeal practices. The practitioner must be “well confessed, and fast on bread and water for three days, and he must not eat until all the stars are in the sky [...] and give alms to the poor”.
He must “fast during the days which he looks upon the diagrams”.
He must only call on the angels and God “after having acquired the grace of God” by “good works, confession, fasting [and] chastity”.
He must be “pure and unpolluted, and make his devotions disingenuously, neither eating nor drinking”.
He must be “very penitent and trewly confessed of all his sinnes, he must vtterly forbere
the company of women and all there intycements, in so much
that he may nott looke upon them [...] [nor] kepe no company with
wicked or sinfull men [...] [and] lett not his apparryll be filthe but rather new, or elles very cleane waschyd.”


Extracted from:
STEPHEN CLUCAS
JOHN DEE’S ANGELIC CONVERSATIONS AND THE ARS NOTORIA :Renaissance Magic and Mediaeval Theurgy

But of course,the web is full of claims to have 'commanded' and worked with all the Demons listed.Of course they did.
Woe if I reveal,Woe if I do not reveal...

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Re: Crowley,newage,true occult....what?

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Aside from the obvious superstitious meanderings, types and names of creatures and use of differing symbols, the entirety of the occult can be summed up with one phrase. Paying attention to what is being said is much more important than who or what they say they communicate with, and how. If I think about my nail clipping long enough I can figure out all I need to know about anything.

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Re: Crowley,newage,true occult....what?

Post by chowderpope »

There are so many branches of occultism, paganism, mysticism, etc. And they all sort of borrow from different lineages, so it's bullshit to say that one is true and all others are false. So whoever said Hermeticism is the only true path, and everything else is not right, is wrong.
Can i still trust Kabbalah, Gnosticism , Hinduism and Buddhism?
Yes, absolutely. All those traditions have so much wisdom embedded in them. In my opinion, in this day and age, you'd be a fool to go with only one path completely and not recognize other paths to truth. I think that it's a good idea to stick with one path, and maybe supplement it with knowledge of other paths, so that you can become proficient in the study and practice of one path. So I would say it's good to choose one to stick with but you can't discount everything else.
Awake from sleep! Remember you're the son of a Great King, see to whom you're enslaved!

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Re: Crowley,newage,true occult....what?

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I think the beauty of having many systems available to analyze is to synthesis what you believe and fit it into your own way. The beauty of Crowley is that he did this pretty well.

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Re: Crowley,newage,true occult....what?

Post by landing »

I did a great reading.....
can u recommend something on planetery magick to read or watch ,too? not too difficult ones.

about checking my tradition,my current background is christian ,but i just did a reading lately, discoverd my past life was in the place between russia and mid east.

I m also wondering when u call a Geotia spirit to help healing etc, how do u know it works/by your feeling..? will it have a side effect?

Thanks

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Re: Crowley,newage,true occult....what?

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Consider that all religions, and mystical truth, and spirituality of the world was accomplished at a given point in time, by a certain culture that prevailed over a certain amount of resources. This will put a lot into perspective.

Ask yourself why you are looking into this, and you will discover more than reading any book. Once you know why you are looking, you will know what to look for.

There is nothing wrong with Christianity if you enjoy a safe path that promotes peace and goodwill, and want to assist your fellow man in a great way. For some people, it is too safe, and not what they consider to be "the noble art of living as a man/woman" and this is what Crowley stood up against. His version of a noble person did not meet eye to eye with the servant mentality of Christianity, and so he looked elsewhere. He looked so far, that he actually tried to readjust the axis of the Sun as it shines down onto us. This was no simple observation of how things work, and I am sad to hear that people think he is flawed. He was and still is, the most bold and determined and probably noble occultist of all time, and deserves consideration. Even if you disagree with how he lived or what he stood for, you have to respect his vision and level of determination. I believe that he was an honest initiate into crossing the abyss, and for anyone that has faced this challenge, it would be easy to see why he turned to opiates.

For a good starting point, I highly recommend The Equinox vol 3 book 1. You can get it online for 15 bucks.

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Re: Crowley,newage,true occult....what?

Post by landing »

inMalkuth wrote:Consider that all religions, and mystical truth, and spirituality of the world was accomplished at a given point in time, by a certain culture that prevailed over a certain amount of resources. This will put a lot into perspective.

Ask yourself why you are looking into this, and you will discover more than reading any book. Once you know why you are looking, you will know what to look for.

There is nothing wrong with Christianity if you enjoy a safe path that promotes peace and goodwill, and want to assist your fellow man in a great way. For some people, it is too safe, and not what they consider to be "the noble art of living as a man/woman" and this is what Crowley stood up against. His version of a noble person did not meet eye to eye with the servant mentality of Christianity, and so he looked elsewhere. He looked so far, that he actually tried to readjust the axis of the Sun as it shines down onto us. This was no simple observation of how things work, and I am sad to hear that people think he is flawed. He was and still is, the most bold and determined and probably noble occultist of all time, and deserves consideration. Even if you disagree with how he lived or what he stood for, you have to respect his vision and level of determination. I believe that he was an honest initiate into crossing the abyss, and for anyone that has faced this challenge, it would be easy to see why he turned to opiates.

For a good starting point, I highly recommend The Equinox vol 3 book 1. You can get it online for 15 bucks.
Is it this book?http://www.the-equinox.org/vol3/eqv3n1/index.html
i feel it hard to comprehend it....

I m already not limited by christianity, its just my family background.
the reason i m learning esoteric, because my life seems to come to a corner, that i can only find answer here.....
and by encountering spirits accidently also leads me to this direction.

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Re: Crowley,newage,true occult....what?

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Is it this book?http://www.the-equinox.org/vol3/eqv3n1/index.html
i feel it hard to comprehend it....
It is very hard to comprehend. Crowleys texts usually needs more than one read-trough.
I would not recommend reading anything by him at all.

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