My little theory

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inMalkuth
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My little theory

Post by inMalkuth »

So yeah, Ive returned. Ive decided that I will take someones advice, and just post my ideas on one thread, as it seems to me that making many threads with different ideas is annoying to people somehow. It also seems that people dont appreciate when others make declarative statements, and as far as that goes (as it pertains to my thread here) I am only making declarative statements as an exclamation of discovering some sort of absolute, or to push the door down into a room that might hold some truth. Please dont take offense, and please dont think that I am not liable to change my mind. If you post here, please try to address the topic or idea that I am attempting to analyze, and save your otherwise noble criticisms for private messages, I am open to advice. I want to speak plainly from my experience, and from what I have read, and deliberate on things logically. If this doesnt suit you, I expect that you wont come to visit this thread. As this is the off topic occult forum, I assume that I am within my rights to post such a topic here. If not, then please tell me so, and dont punish me. Thank you, and now to begin!

I come from a Deist perspective. I have neither name nor personality nor religion for this Deity, but my experience has told me that at least one of some type exists. From this perspective, which I found to be very valuable as I began to pursue intelligence, I discovered the door to many things. I highly recommend taking on a perspective that there is some God, or if you do not hold a faith that there is; then to realize that something within you in the form of an ideal could just as easily be that God, if you could simply identify the root of it. This is easiest to explain by using the word love. If all of your observations of the World focus on a perspective of analysis thinking whether a thing or action is of the loving nature, then you can easily see that love is your God (or one of them). In my opinion, love is a God that we all look to. There are many other ways to analyze this point of view, and I will leave that up to you to decide any further. I speak of it now to share what I understand in way of hope that you might benefit. I welcome logical discussion about what your God is, and what it does for your worldview.

I dont want to put too many topics into one post, so I will move onto the next one now.

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Re: My little theory

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My next assertion is that mankind seeks to understand the nature of reality, the nature and possibility of a God, and the lessons of nature herself, in an attempt to define themselves, and to decide what to do and how to act.

That is a big proposition so I will stop here for you to ponder it for a moment.

Okay, so... I and possibly, we, seek this origin or root of meaning to figure out what we want to do. Meaning is a fundamental force in our activity. I know some people will say that there is no meaning, and that there is no morality, and that there is no truth outside of the immediate result of whatever action was inspired in the moment of observation. I am not of that kind of thinking. I believe that all idea has an origin, and that even should we ultimately decide that there is no origin, we can still recognize certain qualities of the World that will guide us into the right action, and the knowledge that not only will provide for us a productive healthy life, but could possibly be the answer to all questions.

So... what is that fundamental thing that we can all understand? The answer will follow soon.

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Re: My little theory

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So I promised to reveal the ground on which we can all comfortably walk. Regardless of whether one believes that there is a God, or that there is any meaning to be found in the Universe, the fact is that we exist together. We are not alone, and we cannot survive alone. This is easily assessed from examining nature, which is the fount of observation from which all knowledge emerges.

You dont have to call it a morality. There is no requirement that you directly associate virtue with your actions, but we all must recognize that our actions directly affect our surroundings, the lives of others, and our own life. I need you, and you need me; and together we build a society.

Its really this simple, and doesnt need to be any more complex. All the rest of the virtue and vice, and everything nice, should fall easily into place. Our selfish drives (because we fundamentally cannot ignore that all I truly know and possess is my own self) wants us to reject this light of truth. I imagine that after reading these words a certain awareness dawns on the reader and altruistic ideas start to form, but are suddenly assailed by things that occurred in the past, prejudices that we have developed because of a poor choice to react negatively towards an injustice made to us, and all kinds of fear, and fear of vulnerability.

The question one must ask themselves is this: Am I going to live in fear and ignorance and hate, or live in the light of truth, peace and love?

This is the fundamental premise from which all occult matters, philosophical matters, and religious matters are formed. It is also the foundation of all that we recognize as society and culture and law.

I hope that this truth was worth the price of admission. Thanks for reading, all for now.

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Re: My little theory

Post by blindwake »

If you post here, please try to address the topic or idea that I am attempting to analyze, and save your otherwise noble criticisms for private messages, I am open to advice. I want to speak plainly from my experience, and from what I have read, and deliberate on things logically.
I suspect this means that constructive criticism is welcome? You say to vocalize noble criticisms in private, but that you are open to advice pertaining to the subject. This seems contradictory. I will not participate in discussion without a verification that my responses will actually be read.

The most logical way to develop a paradigm is to give a list of axioms, support them with proofs (logical or otherwise), then beg the community to tear it to shreds. Believe nothing unless it cannot be invalidated by a group of peers. I cannot fathom why you would post without asking for criticism. Unless to stroke an ego.

On a side note, though I disagree with most of what you usually say, I greatly appreciate our different views. A constant influx of data that I could not produce logically myself, means that my intelligence is constantly given new random data to ponder over. Usefulness can be found in anything, so long as there is a level of newness.
When everything makes too much sense, that's when you know you've got none. It's this confidence in reality that makes me uneasy.

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Re: My little theory

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I dont think you understood that I was welcoming criticism on the topic, and that should you have any criticism about the way I present it, or any personal criticisms about my character (as has been the want of board members in the past) then to please send them my way via PM. In other words; stay on topic and leave the rest for behind the scenes convo.

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Re: My little theory

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Now I would like to switch gears and talk about another theory that I developed. It is based off of the Solar and lunar aspects of the occult Deity worship.

I see that there are at least these two primary forms of Deity, but that in them we create a number of others. Lets first examine the Solar:

The Solar Deity is the Sun, and it is always emitting life-sustaining light and energy that penetrates the density of matter and provides for the constant evolution and creation of everything manifest. As a Deity, the Sun represents absolute charity without demand, for against whom does the Sun discriminate? If this is the type of Deity one wishes to call God, then all life is giving with no expectation for return, and that means no expectation for result.

Then there is the Lunar aspect which essentially is a filter or a form that reflects this gift. The lunar aspect represents the subconscious, the emotional, and our ability to be a filter of the Suns light. I place among the Lunar Gods the Gods of religion, who govern our liberty with restriction for the betterment of community. We are all under the influence of these Gods in some form.

Essentially Satan, JHVH, Jesus, Buddha and all the rest are Lunar Deities. We are filtering the wonderful gift of constant light through our bodies as we interpret the surrounding activity with emotions and mind, and develop rules to govern ourselves.
In consideration that the Sun is actually God, one would ask themselves what other God best represents the limitless gift of the Sun?

Within us is a land of subconscious dream that has taken hold of each of us in different ways, guiding our personalities and desires in different directions which create our culture. I dont know if this God of dream is the same as the Solar God. Truth be told, the Solar God may not be a God at all, but just a form of energy that sustains us. More likely, when it comes to figuring out who we are and what we are doing, we turn to the subconscious, and to the influence of dreams. If this were the case, then God is not an all-giving presence, but someone that has expectations for what we do with our bodies.

Perhaps then, nature is not the governess that I claimed her to be? Perhaps the true God is in our subconscious. To be continued...

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Re: My little theory

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After some consideration I have to admit that Nature is not our friend exactly. The truth about Nature is that we are exposed to Her elements, and Her tests, and while She gave us life, She could just as easily take it from us. Eventually, She will- I will die and decay and my body will return to Her. So what then, is lasting? Within our subconscious is a factory that churns out our personalities. These personalities become us, and it is directly attached to the one thing that animates me; my consciousness. Descartes was right- I think and so I am. The only lasting part of me is my awareness and when that is gone, so am I. Do I exist after this? If I did not, then it would matter not a whit what I do in this life. I declared that regardless of this, we must accomplish security and prosperity for all of us, because together we survive. Still, some God exists, and it is not the ever-giving Sun. The God is a personality, and is the God of personality; and for that reason we must refine our personalities into the mold that this God seeks. If there were any reason for any of this, it must be that it is a test of our Will, and our personality. Ultimately the real question is: "Who are you, and what did you do?"

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Re: My little theory

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If you believe in a God... any God; you will have to answer to these questions. And if you do not believe in a God, you will still need to answer to these questions to one another. Community is the absolute measure of our deeds and words. Even our thoughts could be subject to scrutiny. What matters is who we are, and what we do.

One could object to Deism by saying that God put the impulses into them to become something undesirable to community, like a thief. They could say that God wanted a thief and so God made me a thief. A thief is obviously against community, and perhaps this God of life gave you the free will and opportunity to be a thief. The question should not be "Does God not want me to be a thief?" but rather. "Do I want to be a thief?" In light of what you know to be right and just, and in light of your very survival; is being a thief something you want to be? It may be likely that God does not judge any of us. More than likely we create our world now, and the world that we inherit after death. The point is to stand up against Nature, and to stand up against those habits and traits that do not provide for us the lives that we desire, and to apprehend our Will and become that person that we desire to be. When using community as our wall, it is difficult to go wrong in deciding what is best.

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Re: My little theory

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I imagine that people are reading this and thinking "How simple and common" but it is exactly that reason that it is so profound! Every day should be an act of recognizing the choices made between the self and the community, and weighing each decision against what is best for them, and for others. Always keeping in mind that essentially all constructive thought is formed around this basic principle. Reminding ourselves just how easy it is to get caught up in the moment and being forgetful that it all evolves from this premise should be our daily prayer or mantra. Without an eye on this idea, we will be easily overcome by someone elses passions, or point of view, or need. Every good Governor, and we are all meant to govern ourselves and are therefor Governors; always reminds themselves that what matters is community, and the rights of the individual. Strip all of the occult free of its symbolism and romanticism and fantasy spell craft magick illusion and this is what remains. It is the heart and essence of wisdom, and THAT is why we choose to do any of this. It is the Mother of Spirituality, and it is the God of our destiny.

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Re: My little theory

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You will have to excuse me for not properly editing my last post, I noticed a couple points where I made an unclear statement, but overall I think the idea is well represented.

My point is this:

The Occult sciences are all about discovering ourselves, our desires and our personalities. Everyone; including the religious, want to mold society into their vision. It is the constant struggle of defining the limitations of the self, and the will of the community. It is fine to pursue ones own ideals and in fact, it is as necessary to discover ones strength for themselves because it is necessary for the growth of community. Above all of this discovery is the fact that we must be aware of our interactions and influence. We must govern ourselves in accordance with what is best for all concerned. We all therefore, have a moral limit.

I feel that I need to point out a fact that is well recognized by the Christians, which is that there is no discovery that we can find, no truth that we can learn- no science that we can create- that is not already known to God. In light of this, is it no wonder that they decide to focus instead on the virtues of community, and how to love one another? Food for thought.

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Re: My little theory

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A friend asked me how my theory comes from Magick, and what it has to do with the study of it.

Magickal acts are willful observations of thought that we aim to prove as we examine the outcome of our actions. I make a Magickal pact to summon a demon, I wait for that demon to reveal something to me, I decide what the message is based on my surroundings and the possibility that the demon is revealing something. I am essentially making reality manifest by looking to define it. All of this is making an observation and trying to make it real in the world. We all do this daily, in small ways and large. We are constantly focused on an ideal that we are looking to make real, or looking to understand through experience. That we all do this in different ways with no real common link creates a surrounding of chaos. The only thing that prevents us from being victims of this chaos and the Laws of Nature are the points I laid out in this thread. We must establish an order for our survival, and that order starts with recognizing that I need you, and that you need me. From there we create the rules that keep us alive.

It may be true that it is all ultimately chaos, and that there is no meaning, and that I should get what I can get when I am able and to hell with the rest of us. This is an individual choice. The Order that we establish by understanding a morality that keeps us from slitting each others throats is the only thing keeping Chaos at bay. Lines are drawn; choose your side.

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Re: My little theory

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It occurred to me yesterday that there is really no difference between Thelema and the OTO and Christianity or Judaism. For all the talk of liberty and free will, the further up the chain of initiation that one goes in the OTO, the less freedom they have. This is a system that is all about service, and yet they revile Christianity and the servant mentality. Their main headline for recruitment is "Tell me Brother, are you Free?" and its a lure... of course they are free! They belong to no system!

The minute you decide to join an organization you lose your liberty for the sake of community. This is a fact that no one can escape, unless they are born on an island with unlimited resources to provide for their every need. We all must conform to the walls of community, because community provides for us a defense against Nature. The one gift of nature that we all can appreciate is the gift of life and its limitless potential, but none of us are born free. I am born an invalid that is reliant on others to survive. That is the truth about Nature. This is an inescapable proof that community is the root of reason, and if there is a God, it is the lesson from that God.

All religions acknowledge that liberty will cause us to make errors. The Christians have a sacrament of confession that we can make use of to excuse ourselves from punishment by showing that we understand the crime and display sincerity that we will not do it again. The OTO is much less forgiving in that regard. Before joining the OTO we are indeed free. The minute we align ourselves with it we are taught to begin pursuing restraint and selflessness, and to learn how to serve one another. But what am I serving in the OTO? I am to be serving those that preserve liberty. But what is the liberty that they possess that is not found within Judaism? Well, women are allowed to have a voice, but its still a patriarchal society. And what else? We are still expected to harm no one, that is no different. So what liberty is there? Both honor the laws of the land in which they live, so the laws are essentially no different. Both have a high standard of nobility and virtue. Probably the only real difference is in how magicians regard sex. Other than that, I am having a difficult time figuring out the personality variances between a religious Christian and a religious member of the OTO. This could easily all be boiled down into the simple fact that Aleister Crowley wanted to bed whomever would bed with him. That he knew what sex provided for the ego, and he felt that we all should have access to that inner strength of conquest and submission, pursuit and capture, and dominance with sexual release. There is perhaps more talk of a brotherly way of recognizing your neighbor, and a more imagined chivalry in the way we deal with one another- but is the answer to be that we all must fight over resources with honor, or is it that we should trade peacefully and evenly? It could easily be the difference between the hunters and the gatherers. The perceived masculine and feminine roles in society as Nature supposedly intended. Either way, virtue and honor are the highest measure of integrity for both systems.

I am not complaining; for I know full well the need for the walls around liberty. I have no objection and willingly work to build this border between chaos and order. What I wonder now, however, is that, isnt the point of liberty invention? What is the cost of restraint? It is losing our ability to create. Essentially this Magick is about creation, invention, discovery and science- but it leads to a restraint that stifles that. Ultimately there is either Chaos and Order- and those that ride the line between them. I would ask you: how willing are you to restrain your creativity in the name of security? Is there even a need to create anything anymore? Perhaps within the walls of civilization we possess all external knowledge.

We are essentially all soldiers and sailors and knights pursuing the great invention- or we are serfs and nobles and kings protecting the land that we have. Which appeals more to you? The sailor should always come home with his goods, and to rest. For some soldiers the war never ends. What would make you most content?

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Re: My little theory

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I am thinking of this chivalry, and I recognize that Satanism is all about strength and honor and glory and victory and pride and lust. These are not virtue-less things. But, is this the most virtuous path in view of a World society? If we lived in a land of peace, without prejudice or fear, or lack of resources to trade; there would be no more need for conquest, and for lust, or victory- the only need for strength would be to get up and do that which needs doing, and would have no value outside of a spiritual strength, because we are probably going to have machines that will do everything for us. And pride- well, we might still have moments of accomplishments that make us generate a sensation of pleasure, but even that is suspect.

My message now, is again; in a future world, or a world where we reside among Gods, or an advanced society of aliens, or whatever perfect idea you can imagine- and should there be something that formed all of this, such a place certainly exists; then there would be little use for anything other than the most peaceful way to coexist. No wars, no deceptive trades, no lack of need- and no consequences except for those that cant get along. In a culture such as this, the virtues of the OTO and Thelema would fall and the Christian virtues would rise. I imagine that the answer here is found in how these systems regard the afterlife. Jews and Thelemites (or members of the A A) believe in reincarnation or inheritance of THIS world, and not some other, heavenly perfect world. Taking this path, essentially, would ensure that you will come back HERE and not go THERE. And the real question one would have to ask is; How long will this world be allowed to be imperfect? The Christians say that it wont last forever. I cannot say either way.

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Re: My little theory

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Im thinking a little more, and I recognize that the pursuit of pleasure causes a lot of strife and conflict and aggression and pain, and that this kind of hedonism cannot be the answer to our existence. Pleasures should be moderate and surprising rewards for our efforts, and not a pursuit. What may be the reason for our lives is to experience and promote joy- for a true joy comes from accomplishing the good, or from seeing life as an innocent, or mystic (these are cherubs). There is no harm in pure moments of joy- at least, not real joy. Perhaps the message is to become strong (these are defender angels)? I am certain that there are unmovable evils that exist- that no amount of conversation or experience can convince that creature not to do harm (REAL devils and demons), and so, we are meant to be warriors for the righteousness of truth and purity? There could be a number of reasons for life. The more I consider these ideas, the more inclined I am to recognizing Judaism and Christianity as the most valid group of thinkers in history, and that they are what they say they are, which is: Gods chosen people.

Certainly community is the precedent for all things good and true, and restraint is necessary so as not to cause harm. Just what DOES lie behind the veil...?

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Re: My little theory

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It occurs to me tonight that Christians and pagans are more similar than I first mentioned. They both worship themselves! Christians take part in communion and become Christ, and worship Christ, and are therefore worshiping themselves. Funny how all this works out...

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Re: My little theory

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I would like to encourage people to seek out something that I believe to be a great and grand explanation of the steps it takes to acquire true awareness of the kind that I am speaking. It can be found in the transcription of "The Voice of the Silence" in the Equinox volume 3 book 1. This is probably the most thoroughly synthesized explanation of the major traditions that one can apply to ones self in an attempt at achieving an enlightened consciousness.

As far as the benefits of enlightenment goes, of which I can claim to know but a few meager scraps, I can say that it is most definitely the gold of the spirit. It is by no means material wealth, but it can easily lead one to the success of the material should that be what they require from life. For in its bosom lies the peace to apply ones self to all efforts easily, and to conquer the observations that prevent true relationships and good counsel. The greatest wealth of enlightenment is akin to realizing that one would trade ten years of luxury and success for one day of the mystical state of perfection that is made possible by it.

Remember that Magick is a spiritual system of attainment, and not some method to make manifest something from nothing, or to be allowed to do whatever action one thinks they want to do, or to have power to influence action by use of material objects such as is the nature of typical spell craft. Typical spell craft is simply a tool to understand that which one desires, and to teach one to focus their Will to a higher degree. For, without knowing desire, one is unable to attain enlightenment. Enlightenment is to know the desire of ones soul, and to understand the spiritual desires that rest in the souls of others. Desire leads to understanding, and understanding leads to truth, and truth leads to peace.

No, enlightenment isnt spell craft and potion making and conjuring spirits to do thy bidding. For to whom does a god bend? It is indeed, being so highly trained in observation that one could tangibly manipulate their surroundings to convince Nature to bend to their will, but not in the ways of using their soul energy to do so. This is not the application of spiritual energy or intention, but rather, it is the application of knowing symbol and using word to make things occur. This is not the goal of enlightenment, but it is the reward of it. The goal is to recognize the intricate beauty of all the steps of life that each individual is on, and to see it as the beautiful process of spiritual development that it is. It is the ability to walk out into a field and experience oneness with the wind as it blows through the grain, and to take that heightened moment of oneness with Nature and apply it to the environment of the city, or an office; for all scenes are Nature scenes. It is the ability to navigate through the most complex puzzle with little effort; to be able to perceive the smallest obstacle as being large, and to be able to remove it from thy path.

We all experience moments of enlightenment more often than we imagine. This is not something that is unavailable to the average person. So far as I can imagine, there is no end to attainment; for we are finite, and there are billions of people in the world causing even more billions of moments to experience and understand, and so the opportunity for perception is infinite. The greatest gift one can receive from understanding is the ability to guide their vessel through troubled waters, and to find safe harbor.

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Re: My little theory

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One does not live on the top of the mountain: They climb the mountain to get a better view of their home, which is in the valley.

Thank you for listening.

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Re: My little theory

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I wonder... when one thinks of the power of the Gods- or that they might be able to possess Divine Power... what do you imagine doing with it?

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Re: My little theory

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All religion and magick and ceremony and initiation and philosophy leads to becoming a true human being, and a real citizen. Depending on your teacher or guru, there are different attributes that you will decide to be noble and virtuous. The point is to decide for yourself who to be.

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Re: My little theory

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There is a difficult veil between the expression of reality and reality herself. The veil is language. It is an unfortunate byproduct of conveying idea that we have produced ideas like Demons, Devils, Heaven, Hell, and all manner of magical language that people tend to employ without understanding the spiritual nature of the message. The point of myth is to give the listener something to identify with- and is not meant to be observed as the actual reality of the supernatural. This is true from top to bottom of all religions and magick. For, what difference is there between practical witchcraft and Christianity? The point behind them both is the only real power of magick- and that is the transformation of the perspective and the actions taken thereof.

It may sound preposterous to say that one is following the thread of prophecy and contemplation, and observing ritual, only to discover that it all comes down to making a personal decision about who a person wants to be, and why- but that is the truth of it. True, there is no real mystery to it, except in the trans-formative process itself. Depending upon who a person is, based on the system used to construct their views, their logical process may need some adjustment. At the end of the day it is still the basic question of: Who am I? Why did I do what I have done? Did I like the outcome? Aleister Crowley does not hide this fact, and he has said that there is probably no way to appease the Gods, and so why bother? Still, we must appease one another- and we all would like to be in command of ourselves in any situation. That is why the study of myth and the development of logic is so important. No one wants to be at the mercy of Nature and Chaos.

Friends, aside from recognizing community as the golden mean- one needs to understand that the whole of action is formed around the self. It comes down to trade, because all interaction is a trade off. We cannot escape interaction. Because we only know ourselves, and ultimately look to preserve ourselves first, all the decisions of life come come down to the desire to possess and the intention to share. This is the core of morality, and of good and evil, and of building a society. From here we have the development of many mythological things.

So far as Universal concepts, or cosmic principals- the idea of Chaos is supreme in expanding our concept of potential, and to aid us in understanding its opposite precept- which is order. Chaos is the key to initiation- and should your religious system not provide you with this key you should forgive them, because Chaos is not to be trifled with. There are a few more complicated tools of initiation, but this is the password that will open the door. Should you so desire to have hands on contact with the Divine, remember; it never hurts to ask (although I cannot say there wont be pain).

I am losing steam for posting more on this site, but I consider it an honor to fulfill my obligation to society for being allowed to post my knowledge here. I pray that I have done enough to provide for a practical guide into the mysteries. Though I could explain more, I recognize that much of what else I have to say is not for the uninitiated, and so I will rest now. Thank you. Peace and good day.

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Re: My little theory

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inMalkuth wrote: I am losing steam for posting more on this site, but I consider it an honor to fulfill my obligation to society for being allowed to post my knowledge here. I pray that I have done enough to provide for a practical guide into the mysteries. Though I could explain more, I recognize that much of what else I have to say is not for the uninitiated, and so I will rest now. Thank you. Peace and good day.
Well, I just want to be the first to say thank you so much for gracing the small minds of this forum with your supreme wisdom and understanding. You are by far the least foolish person to ever post on this forum, and your humility knows no bounds. You shall be missed, but the light of your mystical understanding will linger in our hearts.
Awake from sleep! Remember you're the son of a Great King, see to whom you're enslaved!

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Re: My little theory

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It is over the definition of virtue that men argue, and not whether there is such a thing as good and evil.

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Re: My little theory

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I would like to speak a little about the virtues of devoting ones self to a spiritual path or tradition.

Aside from the waking state of inspired perspective, a spirituality provides for the construction of a subconscious mind that is also active in dream states. By intellectually educating my mind on a certain view of life, when I sleep my subconscious works with the ideas and tools that I have discovered with my waking state. Freed from the personal and the day-to-day, my subconscious is able to analyze and process without prejudice or desire, and is working for me while I sleep, providing inspiration to understand waking states from a dream world.

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Re: My little theory

Post by inMalkuth »

I think that I have exhausted myself here. Good day.

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