The girly side of the occult.

[Sypheara]

a sub par tool becaues its cheap, shoddily made, isnt sigilised or otherwise activated.

If you can't take a shoddily made cheap tool and charge it to something powerful, it's your magic that is sub-par.

There are some seriously talented folks using US Games tarot cards and those are really cheap 'printed in china' plastic crap.

I can, i just dont see the point in using a shit tool in the first place. Why handicap yourself and set the ceiling low from the outset.

Think of it from a musicians perspective. A genius violinist can make even a £50 junk shop, mass produced instrument sound like a thing of beauty, but thats going to be nowhere near as clean, and beautiful as if he played it with a stradivarius..

Same with smelting weapons. Give a master smith shit metal and hes likely justs not going to bother with it, because itll make an awful, brittle material that isnt even worth spending time TRYING to craft it into anything worthwhile. Give him something that isnt full of carbon and impurities..

I dont see why people think different rules in that regard apply to magick. Ive recently bought and acquired a smooth, almost perfect obsidian orb, 160mm in diameter, to act as a central ritual tool. My choice to buy that rather than some plastic crap from china is for the reason that well worked natural obsidian has better inherent energies integral to the work that they simply lack.

[Desecrated]

I can, i just dont see the point in using a shit tool in the first place. Why handicap yourself and set the ceiling low from the outset.

Restricted budget

[Hadit]

You do divination and spirit communication through go fish, uno, candy land, shoots and ladders, etc?

You could actually do that if you wanted to. Some of the absolutely earliest form of divination was done with dices.
As long as you are using anything that is symbolically representative and it triggers your subconscious you could use it for magic.

In a Crowleyan sense, yes. I don't consider that magic.

[RoseRed]

People are here to talk about occult things - not daily mundane life.

The fact that you think those two are different kinda makes me sad.

So, my Beloved just put in a new patio in front and I'm almost due for an oil change. What's doing in your life?

-----------------------------------------

Hadit, now I think you're just trying to find offense. It's not a matter of 'it's my way or the highway'. It never is with me. It's your life. These are your choices. Do whatever you want to. I have strong opinions and I speak my mind. No one anywhere at anytime said that you had to agree with me. I have no idea what you find so offensive about my actual life. Is that I actually walk my talk or because I suck at sugar coating things?

[RoseRed]

You do divination and spirit communication through go fish, uno, candy land, shoots and ladders, etc?

You could actually do that if you wanted to. Some of the absolutely earliest form of divination was done with dices.
As long as you are using anything that is symbolically representative and it triggers your subconscious you could use it for magic.

In a Crowleyan sense, yes. I don't consider that magic.

Good. It's not magic. It's divination.

[Desecrated]

People are here to talk about occult things - not daily mundane life.

The fact that you think those two are different kinda makes me sad.

So, my Beloved just put in a new patio in front and I'm almost due for an oil change. What's doing in your life?

Dogs just woke me up demanding breakfast. Other then that we are just trying to get the house ready for winter. Checking all the windows and things like that.

[Desecrated]

Good. It's not magic. It's divination.

There's a difference?

[Desecrated]

In a Crowleyan sense, yes. I don't consider that magic.

So you are going with the textbook definition of magic as a noun:

"the art of producing a desired effect or result through the use of incantation or various other techniques that presumably assure human control of supernatural agencies or the forces of nature. "

I think of magic as a verb:

"to create"

[RoseRed]

According to Crowley, any act of Will is an act of magic. That would include walking out to the mailbox and bringing in your mail. He had a very open definition of magic.

He's really not the end all and be all of the occult world. It's a big heading.

Descrecrated, no, I don't think they're the same. People that aren't capable of wielding magic still have different psychic gifts and abilities. Have you ever talked to a psion and seen them freak about the difference between psychic gifts and magic?

[Cybernetic_Jazz]

As a kali practitioner I can understand the idea of being able to use 'anything' to divine so long as you understand the meaning.

In kali we have long-ranged weapons, mid-ranged weapons, short-ranged weapons, sometimes some combination of both! A knife, a pen, a beer bottle, a palm-stick, all short range and can be used very similarly. Similarly a retractable baton, a short-stick, a machete, a hammer, a fireman's ax, there are a lot of blocks you say would do for the baton or stick that you wouldn't do for the machete but the same body-movements clear it both in striking and passing.

It's that scrappy 'you can use anything' so long as you keep in mind length and edges that I think can be carried right over to divining. You can read tarot cards, you can read playing cards, runes, some people read the bottom of espresso cups, you can read your bowl of cheerios in the morning or your bowl of minestrone you make for lunch if you decide how to assign enough meanings to the configuration of your cereal or the way a bit of basil is stretched over a diced tomato.

Point being - it's you communicating with a panentheistic monist universe. It lets you decide the protocols, once you're sure of those protocols it's more than happy to talk to you.

[Cybernetic_Jazz]

So you are going with the textbook definition of magic as a noun:

"the art of producing a desired effect or result through the use of incantation or various other techniques that presumably assure human control of supernatural agencies or the forces of nature. "

I think of magic as a verb:

"to create"

I think it was also Crowley who also said that you have to get things in order as much as you can by mundane means and that the magick is worthless (at least in the external use sense) unless one has already done that to the best of their ability. I understand that as the Hierophant not speaking on a particular matter unless you've carried out the activities of the Fool, Magician, High Priestess, Empress, and Emperor already to solve a particular problem and that progress of applications didn't get it done.

To me, in a manner of speaking, that puts oil changes, cement-floating, feeding dogs, and draft-proofing houses on the same gradient as Enochian magick and scrying in the astral, just that it's experienced differently much like electromagnetic radiation is what it is just that colors of light, AM/FM radio, and X-rays yield very different experiences and have different applications.

[Hadit]

Good. It's not magic. It's divination.

Lol!!

[Hadit]

In a Crowleyan sense, yes. I don't consider that magic.

So you are going with the textbook definition of magic as a noun:

"the art of producing a desired effect or result through the use of incantation or various other techniques that presumably assure human control of supernatural agencies or the forces of nature. "

I think of magic as a verb:

"to create"

You could always ask how I view magic, instead of making incorrect assumptions.

[RoseRed]

But he just did in a round about way. He even provided a textbook definition of the word that's being discussed.

Have fun guys, I'm done wasting my time.

[Desecrated]

According to Crowley, any act of Will is an act of magic. That would include walking out to the mailbox and bringing in your mail. He had a very open definition of magic.

He's really not the end all and be all of the occult world. It's a big heading.

I usually stay as far away from Crowley as possible, but I might have to get some more material from him now.

Descrecrated, no, I don't think they're the same. People that aren't capable of wielding magic still have different psychic gifts and abilities. Have you ever talked to a psion and seen them freak about the difference between psychic gifts and magic?

I have not. And I'm completely dumbfounded by that notion and don't understand how there can be a difference.

[Desecrated]

You could always ask how I view magic, instead of making incorrect assumptions.

What is the fun in that?

[Hadit]

You could always ask how I view magic, instead of making incorrect assumptions.

What is the fun in that?

I like this response. We need a like button or reward system on this forum.

[magari]

You could always ask how I view magic, instead of making incorrect assumptions.

What is the fun in that?

I like this response. We need a like button or reward system on this forum.

Seconded
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 28&t=38454

[RoseRed]

Because one is a part of you and the other is an ability to interact with something outside of yourself.

[Desecrated]

Because one is a part of you and the other is an ability to interact with something outside of yourself.

All I see is 'YOU' and 'YOURSELF'. Inside, outside, that's all just part of me anyway.

[Hadit]

Because one is a part of you and the other is an ability to interact with something outside of yourself.

All I see is 'YOU' and 'YOURSELF'. Inside, outside, that's all just part of me anyway.

WE NEED A LIKE BUTTON!!!!!

[RoseRed]

And if we had a big smoochy kiss button - I'd lay one on Desecrated. Dude - I love that you have no problem questioning me. [thumbup]

Similar yet different - like brownies and birthday cake. They're both baked cake like products but not quite the same thing.

[Desecrated]

Dude - I love that you have no problem questioning me. [thumbup]

Why should I? you are just an aspect of me.
gnōthi seauton

[RoseRed]

Does that mean that your library is part mine? Whoohoo!!!!!!!!! [yay]

[EEHC]

The Ouija® Board always has been manufactured as a 'game'. Hasbro made it by all mean, a toy. The wooden (now more of a plastic type these days) board doesn't have any intrinsic occult properties BUT can be used as a convenient medium for channelling spirits.

A child usually ''outgrows'' his toys and while some of them may be getting a few things out of the Ouija® , it is usually very sporadic or incoherent. A child without experience lacks the occult knowledge to make the most out of it. He\she is not commited to it.