Farewell

Announce your presence, if you will.

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Cam Revillot
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Farewell

Post by Cam Revillot »

Clockwork_Ghost wrote:Cam Revillot has been removed from the group after making threats to conduct anti-social behaviour within the school. He took offense at his views being questioned by another member, and then became angry when I asked that people accept that other people have views different to their own. This is a reminder to everyone - there is no one set way of doing things, there are always two sides to the coin, and different things work differently for different people. Claiming that your way is the only way is ignorant and arrogant.

If you disagree with something I say here then question it - I am still learning to, and my ego isn't so fragile that I fear being wrong. Much of what I write about is my own experiences, my own views, I'm not a guru and I don't want what I say to be taken as gospel. Thank you to everyone who is taking part here, it is really great to be able to speak with you all.
I guess I'm about to get banned or something, for the record that's not what happened.

I just don't like there only being one side of the story out there, in a post I don't have access to reply to, so here's my side.

(plus he literally just invited this reply "If you disagree with something I say here then question it")

The thing I took offense to was not having my views questioned, it was the ignorance and arrogance which clockwork mentioned above, which he conveniently doesn't seem to connect to the original complaint even though he acknowledges it right here. Clearly it just makes me sound sillier to say my complaint was that someone questioned my views.

All I heard from that was an automated forum email saying the request was closed before finding that he posted about the report publicly in such a way that it was obvious who made the complaint.

I messaged him to say that it's not really cool to out someone publicly when they come to you in confidence privately for help with a situation, and that I might as well just handle it myself next time someone is being a dick instead of filing a report.

He apparently disliked this criticism of his moderation so much that he decided to put as negative a spin as possible on everything that transpired, and kicked me out of the school for "antisocial threats", telling me how poorly he takes "threats", demanded an apology from me (which I gave him), told me he talked to the mods about having me banned, and embarrassed me publicly AGAIN by posting this biased story about what transpired privately and how he is punishing me, saying I made "antisocial threats" which sounds way more sinister than saying "oh dear god, he's going to just continue the argument another dude started with him rather than report it to me so I can embarrass him."
Clockwork_Ghost wrote:If you disagree with something I say here then question it - I am still learning to, and my ego isn't so fragile that I fear being wrong."
indeed.


1. politely asked for help privately
2. shoots it down publicly
3. I privately say that wasn't really cool to do as a mod
4. He attacks me publicly again, and kicks me out of class for "antisocial behavior"

The big "antisocial threat" was that I would confront the person being "ignorant and arrogant" to me personally next time instead of reporting the post since I got screwed for that in both the action department, and the discretion department.

This simple little PM from me in response to a huge breach of nettiquette is what he describes as "became angry when I asked that people accept that other people have views different to their own." and "making threats to conduct anti-social behaviour within the school"
Wow thanks for publicly announcing I privately reported a post.

Guess I'll just publicly tell him he's acting like a dick next time and avoid looking like a tattle tale for trying to not be confrontational in your classroom.

The whole thing was a teeny tiny issue that could have been handled with 1 reply to me, but instead it was "moderated" into this.

demonized publicly by a mod who got defensive when I said he embarrassed me by posting publicly about our private conversation when I came to him for help.

It was great while it lasted, and thank you everyone for your help answering my questions etc. I will continue practicing on my own even though I sincerely wished to integrate with this community. Keep changing reality and doing your thing! Just don't report someones post whatever you do! haha.
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Re: Farewell

Post by cyberdemon »

Cam Revillot wrote:Wow thanks for publicly announcing I privately reported a post.

Guess I'll just publicly tell him he's acting like a dick next time and avoid looking like a tattle tale for trying to not be confrontational in your classroom.
So, what exactly did you report, if you don't mind letting me know?

Either way, the School is there for teachers teaching their methods as a stepping stones into elaborating a certain subject. Clockwork Ghost does a great job of explaining the theoretical givens but also how his methods are affecting the world. Even as the teacher he has the right to remove someone from his class. It's nowhere near a ban worthy infarction.
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Re: Farewell

Post by Cam Revillot »

cyberdemon wrote:
Cam Revillot wrote:Wow thanks for publicly announcing I privately reported a post.

Guess I'll just publicly tell him he's acting like a dick next time and avoid looking like a tattle tale for trying to not be confrontational in your classroom.
So, what exactly did you report, if you don't mind letting me know?

Either way, the School is there for teachers teaching their methods as a stepping stones into elaborating a certain subject. Clockwork Ghost does a great job of explaining the theoretical givens but also how his methods are affecting the world. Even as the teacher he has the right to remove someone from his class. It's nowhere near a ban worthy infarction.
I can't see the forum anymore, and I think only admins can see the actual report, so nothing verbatim, but basically a guy (not the teacher) in a classroom environment being a big know it all, and presenting his opinion as fact, and alluding to how he was once fooled like I am now fooled.

I tried to be diplomatic and point out maybe we had different perspectives or read the article differently to diffuse it and he just doubled down with the "THAT METHOD IS WRONG, MY METHOD IS RIGHT!"

It was only a little rude, not like a death threat or anything. Not a huge deal, I figured he might get a pm from mod saying to be more polite , or I might get one saying suck it up, and that would be the end of it.

Instead he got a public post about "someone" reporting his post for saying exactly what he said to me (not a difficult puzzle to figure out) and that the report did not deserve a warning because the comments weren't that bad.

I've never been on a forum where filling a private report resulted in a public outing and declaration that the report was lame.

Some weird shaming trip he's on.

If he didn't think the report deserved action be could have simply not acted.

I know he can remove whoever he wants from class as teacher, I'm not trying to get back in his class I'm just telling my side of the story since he has decided public shaming is the way to handle it.

His original handling of the situation is baffling to me, and being so bent out of shape when I say "hey that's not cool to make our private convo public" that he goes full jihad on me and tries to paint me as a forum-terrorist making threats to destroy public discourse is equally baffling.

I suggested in my pm apology to him that maybe there was some language barrier, I know we are from different countries. I just can't believe this happened from me filling a report that said "hey this guys being kind of rude but I don't want to disrupt your class by getting into a big argument with him so I filled a report instead"

That's like calling the cops for a burglar and they come beat you up instead, then issue a press release saying you are an idiot, lol.

Maybe I'm not banned even though he was pushing for it with his story about "antisocial threats". I don't know. I'm just telling my side of the story since he has decided to publicly issue his instead of just quietly removing me from his group like a normal person.

If I'm not banned, I'm not exactly currently encouraged to connect either based on the recent chain of events, yaknow. That just sucked. I was asking for help with a situation and I received,,, this, lol.

The only thing I can come up with is maybe he is just really old and doesn't know about the internet, and how moderating forums is supposed to work. Possibly also having a really bad day, overworked and looking for someone to lash out at. Possibly also a language barrier helping to grossly misinterpret my pm. That's the only way his reaction makes any sense to me.

I've been in many online groups and never seen a leader do that for reporting a post.

Besides that I have no issue with him as a teacher besides maybe he is very busy and doesn't reply very often. I remember only getting one word of encouragement, and that was right after my initial report, like he forgot I was there and that reminded him. As a teacher generally he has good info and good presentation. He adapts to the way individuals learn.
Last edited by Cam Revillot on Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Farewell

Post by cyberdemon »

You're making it sound like a big deal, while trying to tell me it isn't.
In fact, you're right. Clockwork Ghost could have done his thing quietly. Either way, it's nothing personal against you.
The way the forum works at the moment is only people within the Students Of Magic group can view the board. If you're not in any other teacher's classes, if Clockwork Ghost removes you from his class, you lose access to the School.
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Re: Farewell

Post by the_spiral »

I also want to point out that those of us who aren't in the school can't view that board and didn't know anything about this conflict until you posted it here. So whatever CG did or didn't do, you are the one making it public now.
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Re: Farewell

Post by Cam Revillot »

cyberdemon wrote:You're making it sound like a big deal, while trying to tell me it isn't.
In fact, you're right. Clockwork Ghost could have done his thing quietly. Either way, it's nothing personal against you.
To clarify then, I think the original post I reported was not a big deal, and the way clockwork choose to handle it is kind of a big deal to me, (in the context of this community, not the universe) as it was baffling behavior, and also spreading stories about me.

I'm going over the details of many exchanges, so don't mistake long-windedness for "the sky is falling"

Just posting my side of the story since he decided his side needed to be publicly posted (and responding to your question)
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Re: Farewell

Post by Cam Revillot »

the_spiral wrote:I also want to point out that those of us who aren't in the school can't view that board and didn't know anything about this conflict until you posted it here. So whatever CG did or didn't do, you are the one making it public now.
Edit: you can see this without even being logged in
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 61#p505161
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Re: Farewell

Post by Clockwork Ghost »

I would just like to point out that taking quotes directly from private messages and posting them publicly is against forum rules. I would also like to point out that starting flame wars on the forum boards regarding decisions made by staff members is also against forum rules. In regards to the topic, Cam Revillot was never mentioned in the original post in the school, but took offense to my asking people to respect each others opinions. His comments made to me direct included threats that he was going to cause drama in the forum, and he was removed from the group. A message was posted in the group to this effect, as has always been done in the past when conflicts have occurred between members, and he again took offense to this and decided to fight about it.

cyberdemon would have moderated this issue, but decided instead to make statements that directly threw my own handling of the case into question. The moderation team have a hidden board where we discuss any forum issues, and a thread had been started regarding this particular issue, but cyberdemon decided instead to make his comments public.

I apologise to all forum members for making cyberdemon a moderator - when I did so I was administering the forum alone and desperately needed help, so took the first help I can get. I deeply and unequivocally regret that decision.

Peace.

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Re: Farewell

Post by Cam Revillot »

Clockwork_Ghost wrote:Cam Revillot was never mentioned in the original post in the school, but took offense to my asking people to respect each others opinions. His comments made to me direct included threats that he was going to cause drama in the forum,
Please stop dictating what I took offense to, while I'm right here saying "no that's not what I took offense to."

I already posted the singular "threat" above verbatim. Everyone can judge for themself if it seemed serious or like a guy saying "geez that's the last time I come to you for help"

Is blatantly telling lies about someone against the forum rules?

Sorry for "starting" a flame war by *replying* to your story about me with my side of it, after you directly invited people to question anything you said.

You bad mouth me and im the one who "started a flame war" for replying. That's rich.
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Re: Farewell

Post by Cam Revillot »

Clockwork_Ghost wrote:
I apologise to all forum members for making cyberdemon a moderator - when I did so I was administering the forum alone and desperately needed help, so took the first help I can get. I deeply and unequivocally regret that decision.

Peace.

Did you just demod someone for not agreeing with you completely on this? Lol. dat power trip.
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Re: Farewell

Post by Cam Revillot »

Clockwork_Ghost wrote:, Cam Revillot was never mentioned in the original post in the school, .
This is true, but when only two people are going back and forth and you announce that you received reports about comments one made, it's completely obvious the other one reported it.

For a magick school teacher you are having a very hard time grasping any of the simple concepts in bringing up.

You're still telling people I took offense to something I didn't, in this thread which is about explaining that, after countless pms explaining that.

Are you having problems understanding English or deliberately misrepresenting me?
Last edited by Cam Revillot on Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Farewell

Post by Cam Revillot »

Lol he just pmd me to tell me this forum isn't for "people like me" so I should leave, said that I am the one defaming him by responding in my defense when he defamed me, call me a "fucking retard not worthy of his time", and let me know I shouldn't bother messing him because he quit the forum.

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Re: Farewell

Post by Cam Revillot »

Apparently he thinks making private conversations public and publicly calling people out is only bad when other people do it but a-ok when he does it.
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Re: Farewell

Post by Clockwork Ghost »

Seeing as you want to have a big argument in public and make yourself out to be some wounded hero who has been publicly wronged, take the following chain of events into consideration.

1. You reported two posts in the School as being blatant attacks against you, claiming that a well respected forum member who has never attacked anyone and has always been open and accepting of others was challenging your own statements in order to defame you or put you down, when in fact he was asking you to expand on your own statements and saying that they didn't work for him.

2. After reviewing your two reports I made a post that didn't mention you or your comments in any way whatsoever, asking people to be more tolerant of other peoples views.

3. You sent me a rant about how this post was defaming you, and advised that you would simply respond to any comments in an anti-social manner, rather than reporting them to moderators, obviously because you were butt-hurt over not getting your own way and decided to lash out like a petulant child. You also told me in this message that I had singled you out, and had made a post that directly identified you as reporting the other members comments, which wasnt the case - I asked you to quote where I had done that, and asked for an apology as you were being so rude and aggressive.

4. You were removed from the group, and a statement made to the effect that you were no longer a member of the school due to anti-social behaviour. If you read the school rules you will see that anti social behaviour, ie saying you are going to start fights when you feel threatened, is grounds for removal from the group. We have always advised forum members when we have taken direct action against people in the forum as a result of threats, as it keeps the moderation out in the open, and doesn't cause people to worry that they will be unfairly treated, or their posts removed without warning.

5. You sent me not one, but five messages full of aggressive hate filled ranting about how horrible I was being to you in treating you like I would have treated anyone else, ie by making a decision on whether the original posts did in fact attack you, which they didn't, and then asking that people not be intolerant of one another.

6. You started a thread which publicly attacked me and the entire moderation of the forum, drawing attention to a post that many would have ignored who have no interest in the school. You used this to grand stand and show boat, making out that you were somehow special and above rebuke.

7. You're now being defamatory and your libelous, and I will be seeking legal advice as to whether or not to sue you for defamation. I have your IP address, and will be in touch with your ISP if I decide to sue you for defamation. Continuing this discussion, and continuing to attack me for the actions of the moderation team in deciding that your original reports didnt justify warning someone, will result in me definitely taking action against you outside the forum. This is your only warning.

What you should have done is let it go - your reports involved two posts that were deemed to not break forum rules. You got your knickers in a twist over that, and decided to toss your toys out of the cot. I haven't demodded anyone, I merely made a statement that I was sorry that cyberdemon didnt do his job and actually close this thread before it got out of hand.

This thread isnt about explaining anything, nobody knew about any of this before you decided to make it public - this thread is about your ego being bruised and you attempting to save face. As you have now broken several forum rules I would hope that one of the moderators either warn or ban you - I'll be reporting all your posts to them for defamation, libel, and breach of the forum rules.

I left this forum a while ago because of people such as yourself, but came back to help people work through their studies. Having this discussion with you has just shown me that returning here was the wrong thing to do. I have now left, and will not be coming back. Rant away all you like in response to this post, I don't care - I wont be reading any of your responses, so any comments you make will make you seem yet more of a child, but choose your words wisely or I will take legal action against you for defamation and libel.

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Re: Farewell

Post by Cam Revillot »

Not reading that ridiculously long post, I just skimmed and saw you are still lying and misrepresenting my pms to you and demonizing me.

Any member of the mod team who wants to see all the pms I can send them to you. I have nothing to hide. I came at him like a normal person. As you can see he came at me with name calling and threats to track me down.

I came to tell everyone you were now threatening to sue me by tracking me down irl based on my ip address which you have because you are a mod.

I see you already announced that. Super professional. I'm sure that's exactly they made you amod, so you could see ip addresses and threaten to track people down for disagreeing with you.

I'm sure a ton of lawyers would be happy top prosecute me for not letting you dictate the narrative, and telling my side of the story, bwahaha
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Re: Farewell

Post by Cam Revillot »

Clockwork_Ghost wrote:
Cam Revillot wrote: Nobody is ever scared of ridiculous lawsuit threats :-)
Keep laughing fuck head. I know where you live.
See THAT, is a threat.

Me saying I would just handle my own argument next time doesn't really look like a threat compared to that now does it?

Does he own the forum or can someone please remove him now? He's acting like a dangerous crazy person.
Last edited by Cam Revillot on Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Farewell

Post by Cam Revillot »

More ACTUAL threats from my inbox
Clockwork_Ghost wrote:
Cam Revillot wrote:
Clockwork_Ghost wrote:Nope, but I'm sure you will be hearing from my lawyers if you keep this up.
Weren't you quitting?

I feel certain I remember you saying there was no point replying because you wouldn't read it.
I remember you writing a thread titled 'Farewell'. In English it means 'Good bye'. Not a very smart guy, are you Cam? Sort of person who hides behind user names on forums so they can bash other users with impunity? Like I said, I know your address, and your real name - see you around.
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Re: Farewell

Post by Clockwork Ghost »

I'm not threatening to track you down for disagreeing with me, what you are doing by defaming me is libel, the definition of which is as follows:
Libel is a method of defamation expressed by print, writing, pictures, signs, effigies, or any communication embodied in physical form that is injurious to a person's reputation, exposes a person to public hatred, contempt or ridicule, or injures a person in his/her business or profession.
...it is also defamation of character, the definition of which is as follows:
Defamation—also calumny, vilification, and traducement—is the communication of a false statement that harms the reputation of an individual person, business, product, group, government, religion, or nation.
...the false statements in this case being all this stuff about me being some evil bastard who is picking on you, not someone who is trying to stop trolls with massively over inflated egos and victim complexes from causing all the drama you have caused. Both libel and defamation are serious things - you cant just go onto a forum and start trashing people - you've been here a couple of weeks and have already caused some serious drama.

And this whole 'I'll post a bunch of PM's to show how mean you're being to me' business is a joke too - you're selectively taking parts of messages and blowing them out of proportion, plus you can change any of the contents of the message at will to make it say anything you want, for example...

...this is one of the messages you sent to me, I'll post it in full first...
Cam Revillot wrote:Your narrative of what transpired is not actually what happened. Again, is there a language barrier? The reasons you just publicly cited that I complained are not why I complained, and I'm not sure how you consider it a "threat" to say I would not use the report feature in the future since you have punished me for doing so, and just let the argument which SOME OTHER GUY STARTED play out naturally.

Is there an english speaker who can look into this?

Have the other mods actually seen what I typed when they decided this or just heard your version of it explained? You have badly misinterpreted me and managed to moderate the form in such a way that a very small problem has spiraled into something bigger.

In the future: this would have made literally everyone happy:

Public post: Hey you shouldn't present your opinion as fact (no mention of private complaints at all)

Private message to me: "I spoke to him and It's handled (whether you did or not), thank you for using the report feature instead of yelling at that guy and disrupting class further. I will now NOT make up a reason to throw you out."

Why do you mention your ego is not so fragile that you can't take criticism if you are going to go on the offensive the minute I imply you didn't handle my situation great? Real classy posting this attack in response to a post where I was being gracious and thankful to you.
Yeah, pretty reasonable, apart from all the insulting crap about not being able to speak English and the like, but now lets do what you have been doing and remove some of it, plus maybe add in a little, as you have also done...
Cam Revillot wrote: Is there an english speaker who can look into this?

Why do you mention your ego is not so fragile that you can't take criticism if you are going to go on the offensive the minute I imply you didn't handle my situation great?
See? Isolate the comments that make you seem like just a troll and your message loses all context.

Bah... I'm through with you, and I'm through with this forum. Congratulations on closing the school down for good, Cam - I'm sure that all the people who were learning things are going to want to thank you in person.

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Re: Farewell

Post by Cam Revillot »

Originally you made a legal threat yes, but when you go on to send creepy messages like "I know where you live, see you around" it becomes much more than a legal threat.

That's going to look very bad for you in your make believe court case, where you attempt to sue me for defending myself when you say a bunch of stuff about me first.
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Re: Farewell

Post by Cam Revillot »

Gone wrote:
Yeah, pretty reasonable, apart from all the insulting crap about not being able to speak English and the like
Its an international medium. Two people not sharing the same first language is often the cause of confusion. That's not an insult.
Gone wrote:
but now lets do what you have been doing and remove some of it, plus maybe add in a little, as you have also done...
That's a blatant lie.

I am perfectly happy to share all the pms with anyone. I have nothing to hide because you are the one acting like a crazy person.

The best you can do is post one of my pms which is reasonable and say it is reasonable?
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Re: Farewell

Post by Cam Revillot »

Thank you sincerely, whoever did that.
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Re: Farewell

Post by Nahemah »

Thread will be locked for obvious reasons, while the matter is looked into.

Cam Revillot, please forward me all correspondence regarding this issue, as soon as possible. I can't deal with this unless I have all the facts to hand.

Please also be assured that no bans or infractions will be issued over this matter.
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