Dream recall 101

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Re: Dream recall 101

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Cerber wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:20 am "Scary things" is such mean term, so unexpected to hear it from someone who's advocating for peaceful coexistence and mutual understanding between all forms of life.. tsk tsk.. :P
Few times I would run to one of my friends after some exciting encounter, and be like "Oh my gods, I met this amazing person, she/he looks amazing, so beautiful, looked like this and like that, and here, I even found similar picture.." and they're like "uh that looks scary." and I'm like "huh? what you're talking about? why you are so rude?..".. Yeah I stopped talking about a lot of what I see and meet with others.
I mean, beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder, or how does that saying goes.
I don't advocate fear, per se, but neither I advocate "unconditional love and acceptance", I advocate caution and awareness, or ideally mental and emotional stillness, self discipline, and kindness. Appearance usually does not indicate ill intentions. And at least in my personal space negative words like scary or even ugly etc are completely banned from usage.
hehe, well i didn't mean to say "scary things" as a slur.
Scary things can be beautiful to me. Not as a facade (which some sorts of scary things utilize), but elegant in their true nature.
perhaps I should rephrase, and just say that not every entity is likely to engender a 'fun time' for a novice.

Although that depends on the novice too. Literally anything can be a learning experience, and personally I value learning things over comfort.

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Re: Dream recall 101

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Kath wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:16 pm hehe, well i didn't mean to say "scary things" as a slur.
Scary things can be beautiful to me. Not as a facade (which some sorts of scary things utilize), but elegant in their true nature.
perhaps I should rephrase, and just say that not every entity is likely to engender a 'fun time' for a novice.

Although that depends on the novice too. Literally anything can be a learning experience, and personally I value learning things over comfort.
Yes, I know you didn't mean it as a slur :) I just had few experiences after which become hypersensitive to what kind of words I use to express my self, and sometimes even start nitpicking choice of words of others :P
I used to subscribe to that general wide spread notion, that it's all about intentions and not so much about the words it self. As if, as long I don't mean something negative using some negative word, it should be perfectly fine, surely all those spirits and entities understand ways of human expression. But it turned out, repeatedly, that things don't seem to work quite that way.
One time I made a very close friend with one entity, or so I thought, she was awesome in so many ways, and was always near by. But one time during one conversation with some friend (on this side of the things), I told that friend of mine about that my new found spiritual friend, and during that conversation I used some not very kind word, as a joke (be it in a poor taste), and didn't think much about it. But soon after I noticed my spiritual friend is not as close any more, nowhere near as close as she used to be and even apologizing didn't really fix it. Even though she was like "It's fine, nvm..", but that relationship never recovered from that damage, and shortly after she just left (officially, supposedly for some other personal reasons)..
The other time, I simply had strange dream, that I was in some strange place with some interesting people, and didn't think much about it, I should have about it first, but instead and first thing in the morning I told my friend about that dream, and again I used one not very nice word to describe that place I dreamed of. It didn't even crossed my mind, that perhaps I should choose my words more carefully, because I thought it was just a dream. The next even evening, during my meditation, one of spiritual friends shows up fuming, like "WTF?! I showed you my home and you said this and that?!", and I'm like "But I thought it was just a random dream, I didn't know it meant that much.." but she just "whatever, not taking you anywhere ever again.."
And similar things. And what bothers me the most, I often see other people use words as bad, or even worse, and I don't see them being beaten for it, why do I get so much whipping and have to suffer long lasting consequences every time some "not exactly appropriate" word slips out? All those ideas "oh, it's just all about intentions" - that was all a lie!
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Sorry I grabbed this opportunity for some purely personal rant about unfairness of my existence :D Not a single sentence here was really aimed at anything or anyone or anything specific.
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Re: Dream recall 101

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Cerber wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:29 pm things
uh, i mean, I'm sure it varies.
what's the underlying, deepest, most truthful reason, why you used the words you did?

I described an entity i know in a less than respectful fashion, and it did seem to hurt his(it's?) feelings kinda. So i get your vibe here.

I would only ever call my patron a bitch to her face though :P

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Re: Dream recall 101

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Kath wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:22 am
Cerber wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:29 pm things
uh, i mean, I'm sure it varies.
what's the underlying, deepest, most truthful reason, why you used the words you did?

I described an entity i know in a less than respectful fashion, and it did seem to hurt his(it's?) feelings kinda. So i get your vibe here.

I would only ever call my patron a bitch to her face though :P
Well, our patrons tend to have more "mass" and ticker skin, than many of slightly "smaller" spirits and entities, so those are not as sensitive. But I try be considered even when I talk about and with them, because as far as I'm aware, even if they are not as sensitive, they tend to have a very long memory, which I find an important aspect to keep in mind, a certain double edge sword to keep in mind.
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Re: Dream recall 101

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Cerber wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:40 am Well, our patrons tend to have more "mass" and ticker skin, than many of slightly "smaller" spirits and entities, so those are not as sensitive. But I try be considered even when I talk about and with them, because as far as I'm aware, even if they are not as sensitive, they tend to have a very long memory, which I find an important aspect to keep in mind, a certain double edge sword to keep in mind.
I've a long memory too.
I rather value that quality.

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Re: Dream recall 101

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Kath wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:03 pm I've a long memory too.
I rather value that quality.
I think people with shorter memory enjoy life a bit more, a bit happier.
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Re: Dream recall 101

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Cerber wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:24 am I think people with shorter memory enjoy life a bit more, a bit happier.
happiness is largely a decision

if you hope for circumstance to 'make' you happy, you're in for a rough ride. Even if you're extraordinarily lucky for a prolonged period of time, it will only spoil you, leaving you harder to make happy in the future. practicing emotional hygiene is a much more sound approach.


Negative experiences stand out in the memory about 10x as strongly as positive experiences. It's an evolutionary trait. Helps you avoid repeating negative experiences, which in a darwinian setting could be fatal. So on that basis, having a crap memory could be a bit more 'care-free'. I wouldn't say that a long memory is necessarily depressing though.

You know, the number 1 trait shared by those who are unhappy?
if you think of a 4-square grid, 2x2...
And across the top you write internal sense of control, and external sense of control.
And along the side you write internal sense of blame/attribution, external sense of blame/attribution.
then you have 4 squares where these different conditions coexist.
The quadrant which enables, fertilizes, and promotes chronic unhappiness is the one where there's a strongly externalized sense of control, but internalized sense of blame.
It's rather unfair to put oneself in the situation of having all the blame for everything, with none of the authority to fix anything. Some jobs put people in a position like that, but those are bullshit jobs with asshole bosses. Don't be your own unrealistic asshole boss ;-) there's plenty of other people who will do that in life.

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Re: Dream recall 101

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I think "care-free" is a good synonym of "happiness". What other definition there is which could be applied to everyone?
Not sure I understood the that grid bit, you mean people are unhappy when they internally blame them selves for everything yet feel like they have no control over anything externally?
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Re: Dream recall 101

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Cerber wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:55 pm Not sure I understood the that grid bit, you mean people are unhappy when they internally blame them selves for everything yet feel like they have no control over anything externally?
Ya.
the grid was just a way to visualize it. But a high sense of external control, authority, agency, etc. mingled with a high sense of internalized 'blame' or responsibility, etc. Is the combination wherein chronic unhappiness is able to thrive. Anyone can be unhappy for a time. But chronic unhappiness tends very strongly to only thrive where that combination exists.

It's not a widely known aspect of human psychology. It's well and thoroughly established by scientific evidence, but it doesn't point to a marketable chemical cure, so it's largely ignored.


But you've made an accurate point, that knowledge/intelligence (things arguably associated with a good memory) are associated with some degree of melancholy. I myself lean that way, if I do nothing to marshal the direction of my thoughts. I would not call myself melancholic, but if I take my hands off the steering wheel, I drift that way. But why take the hands off the steering wheel? emotions are born from thoughts are born from emotions are born from thoughts are born from emotions... there are innumerable opportunities to influence the direction of this cycle towards whatever outcome you prefer.

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Re: Dream recall 101

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I generally prefer self discipline. Emotional, mental etc. Although I could not ever say "that's the the right way" for everyone. It just something I've come to accept as the "best way" for me personally, or the way I'm most comfortable with.
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Re: Dream recall 101

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>(things arguably associated with a good memory) are associated with some degree of melancholy.

A few days ago it occurred to me that I could delete unhelpful memories - lots of little embarrassing events. So I decided to do that - delegating the job to the intelligence that operates my personality - and it seems to be working well.

So now my memory of my youth is misty and seems to be getting mistier.

My objective is to keep my memory capacity for important matters that are forward-looking. I have forgiven my past so now want to live in the present and future.

Long ago, working for an electricity commission, we were having trouble with the deputy commissioner who seemed to me to have filled up his mental capacity.

So I proposed to my boss that he do an experiment. He would tell the deputy commissioner a new important thing and I predicted that the deputy would then forget something else that was also important. And the experiment worked as I expected.

The deputy's mind was overloaded and he could not take in more knowledge unless he dropped off some other knowledge. Hence my policy of discarding memories that are now of little value.

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Re: Dream recall 101

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I always wondered how their brain works for people with photographic memory, there must be some kind of limits in everything.
There was a period, at one job, after promotion (like it usually goes, 10 times more responsibilities with a whole 10% higher pay), I became walking talking database of the company, constantly updating, few times a day, knowing everything from the stock, how much exactly we have of every individual item hundreds of them, where every item is located, where each item coming from, from which supplier, what day and time, at what price, and staff, knowing often two weeks in advance, who exactly working which day, who's on holidays, what time who is starting and what time exactly finishing, and even sales predicting day by day with only small margin of error.. I only lasted 1-2years before my brains started to melt, and both physical and mental health went out the window.
So very curious how some people manage to fill up their "fleshy computers" with all the information and still function normally.
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Re: Dream recall 101

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>very curious how some people manage to fill up their "fleshy computers" with all the information and still function normally.

Some humans have additional intelligences that take on the more difficult work.

For example J S Bach would often start a piece of music with a simple theme - that would then be played at double speed and half speed simultaneously, still being harmonic.

Then the same theme forwards and backwards at the same time -still harmonic.

Then upside down and right side up at the same time - still harmonic.

That is not a human mental skill

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Re: Dream recall 101

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Some human brains do have more capacity for certain things than others, but still there has to be limits. There is just certain number of brain cells in every brain, and those can be rearranged in a limited number of ways, be it very large number, still a finite number. Most of which dedicated to basic functions of physical form, like eating, shitting, making coherent sentences with facial muscles to talk other humans etc.
Unless we start sacrificing, relocating large chucks of brain mass from "basic functions" departments and in to areas in charge of some non basic abilities. I wonder now, how well those very intelligent people function in normal settings, what were their social skills, are they able to feel difference between freshly baked pizza and the 4 days old one already beginning to grow mould? etc
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Re: Dream recall 101

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>Some human brains do have more capacity for certain things than others

There are quite a few cases of people that were clinically dead with no brain activity, who, when they came back to life, were able to give detailed accounts of what was going on in the room when they were dead.

One might conclude that the brain is not necessary for mental activity.

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Re: Dream recall 101

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Amor wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:06 am >Some human brains do have more capacity for certain things than others

There are quite a few cases of people that were clinically dead with no brain activity, who, when they came back to life, were able to give detailed accounts of what was going on in the room when they were dead.

One might conclude that the brain is not necessary for mental activity.
Maybe "mental activity" does require brains, but perhaps observation and awareness of self and surroundings does not require "mental activity"?
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Re: Dream recall 101

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>Maybe "mental activity" does require brains,

I found it useful to read some accounts by those that have been clinically dead.

> observation and awareness of self and surroundings does not require "mental activity"

Awareness certainly can operate on any plane on which the entity is competent. Observation requires a focus and a probably a concept of self. Awareness may not require those.

For example long ago I was in a spiritual workshop and we were asked to think of a being (e.g. dog) and put our consciousness into that being. For some reason I chose a piece of stone inside a hill. When I put my attention to that piece of stone, I was immediately aware of all the other stones and soil in the hill.

Later experiments indicate that the etheric body of a piece of quartz is connected intimately to all the quartz in the galaxy. What a communication system!

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Re: Dream recall 101

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Amor wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:33 am >Maybe "mental activity" does require brains,

I found it useful to read some accounts by those that have been clinically dead.

> observation and awareness of self and surroundings does not require "mental activity"

Awareness certainly can operate on any plane on which the entity is competent. Observation requires a focus and a probably a concept of self. Awareness may not require those.

For example long ago I was in a spiritual workshop and we were asked to think of a being (e.g. dog) and put our consciousness into that being. For some reason I chose a piece of stone inside a hill. When I put my attention to that piece of stone, I was immediately aware of all the other stones and soil in the hill.

Later experiments indicate that the etheric body of a piece of quartz is connected intimately to all the quartz in the galaxy. What a communication system!
I meant, we assume because we are aware and able to observe environment, to some extent even react and even interact with it, we assume there is some some sort of "mental activity" going on in the brain, or "mental activity" is required for such very basic metaphysical functions. But what if it's not the case? I do think we are capable of basic functions of sentience without brain, but key word here "basic". I don't think any of those clinically dead people, in that moment when their brain ceased all function, were actually able to perform more complex mental activities, cognitive functions, like doing some math, or physics calculations, even writing a twitter post or something.
In many of my deep meditations sessions, when I "go out" I often find my self struggling with some situations and tasks, and in that state I'm not even clinically dead, only half-asleep, in physical sense, some parts of my mind simply very relaxed or suspended.
And it's very odd feelings to find your self feeling perfectly functioning, yet unable to write or read, or do math, or have no access to your own memories, or struggle to handle some simply social situations as gracefully as you would with fully functioning brain, etc etc.
Most of us really can't imagine how much of our "selves", our personality, abilities, behaviours are not really part of our spirit self, most of it is actually the the machine, we are just so deeply fused with the "metal" that we can't imagine what we would be like without it, until the day are actually are without it, again.
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Re: Dream recall 101

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>I don't think any of those clinically dead people, in that moment when their brain ceased all function, were actually able to perform more complex mental activities, cognitive functions, like doing some math, or physics calculations

It is strange that those resuscitated do not report doing maths calculations but they do often recognize places, objects and people.

"It's like the emotional part of my brain stopped working before the intellectual part did. I basically was just patiently waiting to find out whether I was going to be dead or not. I had no feeling about it at all at the time."

"I remember hearing a lot of slamming and banging around, which I assumed was the crash cart and nurses shoving into this small testing room. I felt a pressure on my chest, like when you have someone stand on your back to crack it, which I found out later was the nurses doing CPR. I saw an array of vivid colors kind of dancing around forming objects in the dark. The scariest thing was how peaceful it felt, just pure 100% peace. No panic, no pain, no sadness, nothing just bliss. I coded for just under two minutes and as soon as I came too and opened my eyes"

"She said it was the most amazing feeling she’s ever experienced. It was blank black nothing, but that was perfectly fine, and she felt a comfort she can’t even explain. She remembers being angry at the man working on her when she finally came back to her body because she wanted to stay there. "

"I ceased to care that I was dying; time seemed to change, it could have been hours it seemed. It was only about 30 seconds. I felt as though I was floating and floated toward something that I eventually realized was my body and reality. Upon joining with whatever it was I was floating towards, I became self-aware in my body and heard the electricity making horrible noises and knew I was in danger."

"Former co-worker of mine died during heart surgery. I think she was out for 90 seconds or close to it. She wasn't religious or anything. She said that she remembered being in the room and seeing her dead uncle and cousin standing at the far end of the room watching everything going on."

"my grandmother after giving birth to my uncle was clinically dead for a bit. She told me that she felt herself rising out of her body and she ended up in the top corner of the room with a view over her bed and the doctor. It was then that she willed herself back to her body and was alive again. -"

Of course lots of people experience only blackness and peace and wish to stay.

Others experience nasty places and are happy to return to the body.

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Re: Dream recall 101

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All those examples indicate full awareness, not cognitive functions of the brain. To which I completely agree, awareness does not require physical brain, brain is only required for complex data processing and calculations. Brain is merely an "upgrade", giving advantage of superior cognitive abilities and some other things, over those without all that extra computational machinery.
At the same time, we receive those testimonies from the brain, not from the spirit in that moment. On the moment of their return, all the data of the experience were processed by the brain, turning them in to memories. After which we can't be exactly sure how much of it, which parts of this or that experience are the actual data and which parts are artefacts brain processing/filtering and/or product of our minds innate drive to fill all the gaps and errors with "creative liberties", in and effort to create coherent and sensible story, to present us, the driver, with on the spot generated "illusion" of reality that seems sensible, and as comfortable as possible. To some extent our minds even often take extra effort to protect it's self and us, by filtering out or at least soften out parts of reality that may be harmful, emotionally, mentally.
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Re: Dream recall 101

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Long ago I lived in a spiritual community in which one of the founders had God speak to her regularly. Several times I heard her asked: how did you know it was God? Each time she replied: I just knew.

I did not think that a particularly useful answer.

Still, a few months later, deep in meditation, I heard a voice. Immediately, without mental process, I recognized it as the voice of God. When I came out of meditation I could not remember what He said. I dare say He understood.

Such recognition may be called Direct Knowledge. It occurs without mental process, being a function of the heart (buddhic plane chakra).

This gap between direct knowledge and brain memory is quite common. For example something important will happen in a dream and on waking I will try fruitlessly to remember. Then when I next meditate (thus reducing/stopping personality function) I will recall the matter and then impress it into the brain so that I later have the memory.

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Re: Dream recall 101

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Amor wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:41 pm Long ago I lived in a spiritual community in which one of the founders had God speak to her regularly. Several times I heard her asked: how did you know it was God? Each time she replied: I just knew.

I did not think that a particularly useful answer.

Still, a few months later, deep in meditation, I heard a voice. Immediately, without mental process, I recognized it as the voice of God. When I came out of meditation I could not remember what He said. I dare say He understood.

Such recognition may be called Direct Knowledge. It occurs without mental process, being a function of the heart (buddhic plane chakra).

This gap between direct knowledge and brain memory is quite common. For example something important will happen in a dream and on waking I will try fruitlessly to remember. Then when I next meditate (thus reducing/stopping personality function) I will recall the matter and then impress it into the brain so that I later have the memory.
In my personal gnosis and experience..
Yes, if we are "greeted" by someone greater than us, we are able to sense, be aware, that the presence is greater than us, perhaps even greater by many orders in magnitude in every way, greater in power, in radiance, in influence, in presence and every possible way.. Just greater.. And that's where it ends, when it comes to "direct knowledge". Because what comes after that point, is entirely personal interpretations what/who actually is that "greater person", usually such circumstances those kinds of visitors gets interpreted as "The God", of some sort, depending on individual's in question conditioning, religious believes, etc, and it's to no one's surprise.
When you find your self standing right in front of the mountain, it will always seem like this particular mountain is the tallest, the biggest mountain it the entire known universe, even if behind that one perhaps there is many taller ones, even if that specific one might actually even be the smallest in the range of maintains spanning far in to distance much further than our awareness can grasp. It's all relative.
Many years, decades ago, long before I start walking occult paths, or learning ap/obe, once I got such "divine visit" too. And in that moment, I too was so awestruck by his awesomeness, his radiance, and power and greatness, felt so tiny in his presence, and had no other reference to someone like that, apart of him being the god. After few days I still somewhat got over that whole experience, and concluded that despite my initial impressions and immediate interpretations that mostly was not "the god", even if he was "divine" in some sense. But that memory eventually faded.
Only decades later, after spending years of nurturing all my skills, expanding my awareness, learning to actually recognise and track those "energetic signatures" of entities this and that. One day for some reason I was remained by that incident and I revisited that faded memory, and only then I did "recognize" the visitor with fair amount of confidence. He was divine, but not the god.
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Re: Dream recall 101

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I wrote God rather than god, to refer to one of the Planetary and Solar Logoi, rather than humanoid gods.

"A solar Logos uses for His energy centers the planetary schemes, each of which embodies a peculiar type of energy, and each of which, therefore, vibrates to the key of the logoic solar Angel, of which the human solar Angel is a dim reflection."

http://www.energyenhancement.org/Alice- ... e1433.html

The parallel between the logoic solar angel and the human solar angel gives a sense of one of the seven paths possible for a perfected human

1. The Path of Earth Service.
2. The Path of Magnetic Work.
3. The Path of Training for Planetary Logoi.
4. The Path to Sirius.
5. The Ray Path.
6. The Path the Logos Himself Is On.
7. The Path of Absolute Sonship.

Details here:
https://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/ihas/ihas21.htm

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Re: Dream recall 101

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I have read the account of the 7 paths several times over the last decade and each time the same path moves me to tears.

Anyone else have that?

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Re: Dream recall 101

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Amor wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:34 am I wrote God rather than god, to refer to one of the Planetary and Solar Logoi, rather than humanoid gods.

"A solar Logos uses for His energy centers the planetary schemes, each of which embodies a peculiar type of energy, and each of which, therefore, vibrates to the key of the logoic solar Angel, of which the human solar Angel is a dim reflection."

http://www.energyenhancement.org/Alice- ... e1433.html

The parallel between the logoic solar angel and the human solar angel gives a sense of one of the seven paths possible for a perfected human

1. The Path of Earth Service.
2. The Path of Magnetic Work.
3. The Path of Training for Planetary Logoi.
4. The Path to Sirius.
5. The Ray Path.
6. The Path the Logos Himself Is On.
7. The Path of Absolute Sonship.

Details here:
https://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/ihas/ihas21.htm
I tend to avoid paths that deal in very abstract and ethereal terms, especially if abstract absolutes. I prefer, most of the time even insist, on boundaries in all of the existence. And all "reasonable existence" been willing to accommodate such preferences of mine, so far.
If a young "great one" say "I'm boundless" that is fine, it only means They are still searching for their purpose, their form, their place in the greater universe. But if an old "great one" say the same thing, more often than not, it only means they are not being honest, and they say this or that not because it is so, but only because this or that is what they want/need me to believe to advance their personal objectives.
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