Breaking the 4th wall

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Amor
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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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It looks to me as if they are back.

What implied permissions have you given? For example the entity at the back of your head may have a permission related to your closing your heart to someone over several lives.

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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None that I know of.

Also I think my synchronizities mean that someONE is stealing something from me. Not someTHING. Those entities might be sent to me by that someone, but I think they are a separate problem.
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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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> may have a permission related to your closing your heart to someone over several lives.


Drift back in time to 1750. There is a tall grey stone castle. Go to the top of the tower. There is a woman that hates you. Why?

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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My synchronizities say that if I do that, I'll most probably uncover one of the false memories implanted in my mind. The source of the false memories being those spiritual downloads I've mentioned on these forums couple of times. I.e. the thing you're seeing is a result of an adverse spiritual download.

But I'll do it anyway, since I might learn something new about adverse spiritual downloads.
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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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OneOfFourth wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 4:26 pm My synchronizities say that if I do that, I'll most probably uncover one of the false memories implanted in my mind.
So the same false memory appears in my mind when I look to see sources of your problems.

Perhaps I should look without using my mind

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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I tried looking into year 1750 and here's what I saw:

An impossibly tall medieval like tower, way too high to be build for real.
On the top was an old wizard looking man, pacing back and forth, looking like it was waiting for something.

How exactly do you trace your vision to the year 1750? How do you know the connection/link has not been tampered with and is a reliable source of information?

I'm asking because I'm fairly convinced that unlike in physics, in spiritual world information CAN be destroyed, thus concealing/hiding certain information and giving opportunities to fake things.
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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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To go back in time I usually visualize this 3D timeline and drift back along until a period attracts my attention. That is what I did in the above post. 1750 attracted me and there I saw a grey stone castle with a tall tower with you and a woman in the top room. She was hating you.

It looks like she was then your paternal grandmother. She appears to reincarnate in the 1920s - probably as a great aunt.

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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Amor wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 6:18 am To go back in time I usually visualize this 3D timeline and drift back along until a period attracts my attention. That is what I did in the above post. 1750 attracted me and there I saw a grey stone castle with a tall tower with you and a woman in the top room. She was hating you.

It looks like she was then your paternal grandmother. She appears to reincarnate in the 1920s - probably as a great aunt.
Didn't find anything like that in my memories. I did find some drama triangle fake memory kind of thing. I asked the memory itself if it was an implant and the lady's face in the memory transformed into some demonic disformity, hinting it was implanted by an adverse spirit.

I made a quick test to see if it's "a fake memory bank" I'm accessing. Go back in your own life to year 1900 and see if there is anything noteworthy.
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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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>Didn't find anything like that in my memories.

It was not a memory experiment but a past-life discovery process. Why do you change it to a memory process?

> Go back in your own life to year 1900 and see if there is anything noteworthy.

I was born about 1903 in a one room cottage with thatch roof and earth floor, near a cliff above the ocean in Cornwall

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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Amor wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 1:30 am >Didn't find anything like that in my memories.

It was not a memory experiment but a past-life discovery process. Why do you change it to a memory process?
Past life memories.

Amor wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 1:30 am > Go back in your own life to year 1900 and see if there is anything noteworthy.

I was born about 1903 in a one room cottage with thatch roof and earth floor, near a cliff above the ocean in Cornwall
Hmm, didn't work. Try the exact year 1900 and see if you can see anything in there. If not, didn't work.
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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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>Past life memories.

Past life memories may be colored by beliefs and trauma. Better to go exploring without preconceptions

>Try the exact year 1900 and see if you can see anything in there.

There is an awareness but not physical body

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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Amor wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 6:15 am >Try the exact year 1900 and see if you can see anything in there.

There is an awareness but not physical body
Not a problem for my experiment. Actually perfect for it.
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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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Here's an update from the past few days:

For about the past hour I've been testing the boundaries of the "magick method" (with lots of attention put into respecting Free Will and good morale) I described earlier in this thread. I'm almost 100% convinced that the effects go like this: Instructions are given to The Universe/God/Source which adjusts the "divine plan" so that whatever is required for the effects to take place, will happen. This in turn is executed by lesser spirits to actually make it happen.

I tested if people in video footage make some specific completely non-attention raising gesture if they are of some specific opinion. The opinion itself was chosen to be such that it's almost 100% true to absolutely everyone in those videos I used for testing. I changed the gesture itself all the time, from person to person, to different kinds of things and almost 100% of the time the specified gesture was made by the person for which it was intended to happen. This also worked for small group of specific gestures the target could pick from: often they picked several of the gestures and did them at the same time. It also worked for multiple people at the same time. This worked for completely new videos, videos from couple of years back and even for video footage from 1920's Paris/France, in which all the people have already passed away. So the effects don't care about time nor distance. They work equally effortlessly and using the exact same method, with no modifications of any kind.

I also noticed yesterday, accidentally, that it's possible to enter a memory of some specific event another person has in his/her mind, if I was present there or if I witnessed the event realtime over internet video stream. There seems to be a fairly strong emotional imprint in those memories what the person felt during that time and some feel to the current thoughts at that specific moment. The visuals of the surroundings look rather blurry and dim, but give a fairly good indication of what it was like at the time, even if I wasn't there in person. I have to experiment more to see how much my own mind fools the results. I also have to figure out a way to do it with respect for good morale.

The above also felt like revealing to me the information that each person's memories are usually separated from other people's memories, but trained people can reach out to them and inspect them without the target noticing at all. It is almost 100% likely that it's also possible to adjust those memories and also add fake memories. My guess is that it's rather simple to do. I believe a standard procedure for some specific mage groups is to create a permanent "link" between memories of groups of people. I think this might have been what I accidentally did and had to undo. The foreign memory was super-easy to re-enter if I even slightly put my thoughts to that direction, bringing me the strong emotional feelings in that other person's memory. It felt a bit distracting to be honest.

It also looks like the effect can accidentally stay on, broadcasting effects, if not closed properly...
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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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Talking about affecting people in recorded video clips and other things:
I've been passively observing for couple of days when, how and how easily the above mentioned effects happen without me actually trying to create them. I've come to the clear conclusion that if something actually slightly catches my interest, I seem to be subconsciously "broadcasting" effects to that thing which piqued my interest. There's no way around it. It simply happens in random and quite often. To not make it happen I seem to have to concentrate fully on something else, which obviously spoils any experience I wanted to enjoy in the first place, i.e. watching a Youtube video about something etc. It would be nice to know if that effect broadcasting could actually be turned into happening only when fully consciously wanting to do the broadcasting instead of it also happening subconciously by accident. (EDIT: My synchronizities are letting me know that mental balance does the trick. I.e. I should stop worrying about it and react to things in a more balanced way.)

One example of this that happened to me two days ago by complete accident:
I was watching an interesting reaction video about a piece of music on Youtube when someone from The-37 started attacking me again (I felt clear effects of the attack). I quickly switched my attention to the feeling of the attack and instructed it to bounce to the attacker as a "scared shitless" feeling, since I've had enough of their attacks. Unfortunately my attention seemed to still be slightly also on the Youtuber. The reaction video guy's facial expression immediately changed to something like disgust or something. After a moment of listening more to the song he stopped the song and sounded agitated and complained that the song felt nightmarish. At that point I realised I better consciously try and send corrective effect that removes the previous accident, which I did. Still I think the guy won't listen to that song ever again.

Another example that happened yesterday:
I have always thought words "aloud" in my mind when thinking. Yesterday I was watching someone make a movie reaction video. At one point while I was enjoying the show, I thought just a usual thought (to me) "You loved it, didn't you?". Immediately the woman's expression in the video changed, she looked directly into the camera, looking confused and gave a hand + eye sign. I know that she is in The-37 and I recognized that handsign from quite a few occations before when bumping into members of The-37. So she definitely received my completely unintentional "thought broadcast". Her reacting to the camera with signals is also a clear indication that The-37 are fully aware of being able to send messages to people in recorded videos, i.e. through time. The natural reaction of hers to the accidental incoming message was also a clear indication that this must be one of their standard techniques of communication.

I have a very strong reason to believe that I've been doing this kind of subconscious broadcasting on a daily basis, without knowing, throughout my whole life since I was a small kid. That would explain large number of situations and things that have happened to me. This includes many of the things I've mentioned on these forums about weird situations with me and other people in local food store, on streets, and some completely different effect, etc.

I have to experiment to see if there is a way to learn how to restrict the accidental broadcasting.

One thing that inevitably comes to my mind is that internet videos about something bad happening during live broadcast are now and then probably someone doing intentional harm on people using the above method. I.e. if you're a really immoral/evil person, you're watching a video about something and decide that X happens during the video. If the video wasn't originally a live broadcast, various things lead to another and eventually the video got published anyway. I'm convinced this is something The-37 use for attacking their targets.
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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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Still accidentally broadcasting. I'm predicting there's going to be quite a few annoyed Youtubers this year :(
I have to learn to find that balance so the accidental broadcasting happens less and less often.
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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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OneOfFourth wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:09 pm I.e. imagine something you want to change. Now instead of concentrating on that event in your mind, move your attention to that THOUGHT ITSELF about what you were thinking about. (thought of the thought) I.e. move one abstract level above your original thought. Now give clear, short, precise instruction to that thought you are concentrating on. (that is: thought of the original thought) Just like it was a living, breathing person you were talking to who was listening to your instructions. Then observe how things start rolling the way you instructed.
One of the central focuses, foremost among them I'd argue, of the things I learned interacting with my mentor, was a very deep dive into the nature of mind, thought, and consciousness. To peel away the layers and self-observe cognition at it's very root tips. So to me ideas like "the thought of the thought of something" is already very familiar.

The thing which most people regard as the self, is really a kind of abstraction of the actuality of the self. When we "think something to ourselves" in daily life, that's really more like a summary of a digest of an outline of what we're thinking, encoded into a format like self dialogue or conceptual-visualized thought. Out internal thoughts which we direct at ourselves are a kinda strange phenomenon. Almost a sort of neurosis. Like we create within ourselves something almost like a tulpa or quasi-sentient construct, which contains a very parsed down, simplified version of the full breadth of our consciousness. In a sense we create a puppet show in our minds, and imagine our 'self' to be the main character. But in reality, the thing that is us, is the consciousness putting on the puppet show. The internal dialog is a sock puppet which we regard as being the real us. It is an expression of us, but far from a fully encompassing representation.

Sometimes, we have multiple conversations at once. Sometimes even multiple different conversations with the same other person, at once. I found that I started doing this more often after working on this aspect of mind some. Kinda jumping from idea to idea, following not one progression of linked ideas, but multiple progressions, side by side. Where 2 statements I might make, one after the other, could be like: "Were they able to fix your brakes cheaply?" "oh I don't care for asparagus at all, how can you eat that?" where nothing the other person said would bridge that gap in ideas. Not a meandering train of thoughts, but a fork in trains of thought. Other people seem perfectly able to reciprocate, so I don't think it's especially odd behavior. What IS interesting about it, is how it kinda illustrates the presence of the underlying consciousness.

Similarly in internal thoughts, I don't try to force thought into strict regimentation. I let multiple threads play out at once. It's not alien to the human brain at all. We all walk & chew gum at the same time. I just allow that multitasking to be the modus operandi in my abstract thinking (which is less commonly practiced). People often say they get great ideas in dreams, or in the shower. I'd argue that it's just that a lot more of what mind is doing can slip through when there's a breakdown of the regimented internal dialogue. I guess in essence I try to allow the free-association of dreaming to play out in abstract cognition. I've kinda turned away from the internal puppet show, and want to focus on what the 'entire' consciousness is doing.

I'd liken it to approaching abstract thought with the same multi-threaded, dialogue-less, state of mind which we apply in hand-eye coordination. I never wonder where a thought came from anymore. Arguably because I'm observing the whole transcript of thought, not just cliffs notes.

I think it's good practice to frequently do two or more things at once, which are difficult to do simultaneously. Building muscle with mental multitasking is I think beneficial to moving away from a simplified form of self awareness. Visualizing impossible shapes in the mind, and then making them 'possible' in the mind, is also useful. Basically teaching the mind to be able to work with unreal geometry. Or even work with ideas which lack synchronized time. Kinda deconstructs the rules in which we formulate thoughts.

Therein lay the point where i kinda drift away from format-focused magical practice (and by that I mean both ritual and energy visualization). Kinda getting the ego-mind out of the way of connecting Will to Effect.
In so doing, I find it easier to perceive things as well. Little we perceive through ESP, intuition, second sight, visions, etc. Is really ideally suited to verbalization or visualization in our physically-bound sense of geometry. Better to just absorb the full breadth of sensation & conception, in it's ineffable entirety, heavy with nuance and hyper-linked ideas & associations, without carving it down to simpler forms like shapes, colors, words, motions..
To regard the underlying thing, to which any communicable explanation is really representative symbolic art of.
But all symbols are reductive. All labels strip nuance. All categorizations lack differentiation. All abstractions lack detail.
As a buddha once said, "all words are lies". The shadows on the wall of the cave are not quite the things casting the shadows.

I think to regard or interact with the raw entirety of anything external to self, is very related to the capacity to regard the raw entirety of self.

It's interesting how physical reality separates things with distance and time. Yet I think it's an expression of a layer of reality which is not dispersed apart in this way. Like the universe is a single point. But in this expression of it which we call our consensual reality, it's stretched out far & wide, and forward & backward. But there's still a relationship between all of "this" (waves arms around), and the singularity of existence. Like the universe as we normally think of the universe, is just the singularity of existence as expressed through the lens of dispersion and time. But it's not entirely isolated from it's singular nature.

And perhaps more importantly for pragmatic purposes, the phenomenon of 'consciousness' in this dispersed universe, is capable of functionality which represents causality violations, at least a sliver of mind shows it's connection to an aspect of reality not burdened by the rules of this material expanse.

My focus in magical practice has been largely on this layer of things, where minds don't 'entirely' obey the rules of the material universe as we commonly know it. And how minds interact with other minds in ways which don't make sense in an entirely material examination of what's occurring. Does consciousness affect material aspects of this universe as we commonly know it? I suspect so, but I don't know how. At least I don't know 'how' directly. Though the principal of one mind affecting another mind, which is anchored in a physical body other than your own ...is a pretty straightforward approach to empowering Will to break the rules of interaction in this physical expanse. I am certain that it's also possible to break the rules of interaction in this physical expanse by way of violating time. But I don't know how to control that yet. I do think direct physical manipulation is possible though, but I'm less concrete on that.

There's an effect in ESP research (the more serious research out there, not the obvious sensationalist junk). I think its called micro-telekinesis (I haven't had any coffee yet, so i might be using the wrong term). Where a person focusing on a desired outcome, can statistically skew the odds of what seems like a random event like dice rolls. I think that form of "intention manifestation" describes the underlying function of much of what people do when they practice magic. It's worth noting that the success rate is not high though. It only shows up in large data sets as a gentle skew in probability. In less scientific settings you might see similar effects in trying to influence a candle flame, etc.

I'd argue that shows the required mechanism is in place. But our approach to utilizing it is very inarticulate.
Is it a fundamental limitation? Or do we just lack the right approach?
I dunno. I'd like to know.

Granted physically manifest results hasn't been my primary focus. I've leaned more into the consciousness exploration and inter-consciousness effects aspect.

Speaking of, I thought of an interesting way to describe energy manipulation. I don't think any way of explaining energy manipulation is entirely "correct", but it can be useful to have more models within which to ponder it. Anyway, it could be useful to regard all of the 'stuff' of energy or astral nature, as all being made of basically 'consciousness'. And that a minds (as we think of minds) are kinda like a nexus of more intense, more concentrated, consciousness. Not separate from the greater field of consciousness really. More like a tangled knot in a vast array of christmas tree lights. So exerting influence in that field is relatively easy, thought of in this way.

I wonder if the nature of the physically manifest reality is governed by the broader entirety of the whole of universal consciousness? If so, that might explain the potential for miniscule effects, within an overarching difficulty of large effects.

I dunno. I'm definitely not an expert on physically manifest magical effects.

But I do think that the idea of throwing intentions out into the ether, to get a desired result, through an unknown series of random synchronicities... is a sound approach. I just can't help pondering the potential for a more sound, more impactfull approach.

I'm quite good with the mind stuff though :) Direct physical manifestation wasn't a focus of what I was taught. My mentor wasn't particularly interested in transient physical matters. I kinda think the understandings are an asset though, relatable to physical influence effects (as a side hobby), If I could better figure out how to leverage it.

I'd actually go as far as saying that the word "magick" itself is highly misleading about the reality what's going on when people create their magickal effects. I'd also claim that the big names such as Blavatzky, Crowley, etc. knew fully well on an intimitate level about this thing I'm speaking of but decided to "privatize" it and obfuscated the knowledge under countless layers of misdirection and diluting techniques. Thus doing a major disservice to everyone.
Completely agree. In particularly I noticed this with Crowley. Initially I thought he was a quack. But there were nuggets of wisdom. So i dug deeper. I tended to grow frustrated with his nonsense, until I was suddenly struck by the realization that he's deliberately fucking with the reader. That he's throwing nonsense on top of quite valuable concepts. As if to bury it, or gate-keep it, for only a small number of people to find.

I'm not a big fan of the gatekeeper mentality. I'm not sure if I'd go so far as to call it a "major disservice", I'd probably soften the word choice. But I get what you mean, definitely.
I also realised (and received some information about) some interesting points about how certain mage groups (including The-37) seem to have false beliefs about there being a loop hole in the Natural Laws. I.e. if you manipulate someone to accept adverse spiritual downloads on themselves, adverse entity attacks, etc. they aren't actually avoiding any of the backlash from those manipulative actions, regardless of how many middlemen/proxies they were using to get their victim to get into trouble and distress. The backlash is simply delayed, but will hit the manipulator in full force later on.
Ah. Personally I don't believe in "backlash". Sure there's "obvious consequences", uh, predictable outcomes, etc. And in physics there's 'equal and opposite effect'. And there's a less common taoist version of explaining 'karma' which I think is very insightful (basically that when one acts in a way not aligned with their greater self, they harm themselves, and quite immediately, in that moment). But I'm not convinced of a cosmic morality/fairness policing system. Be that hell, karma, a rule of 3, whatever.

On the contrary, I think that faith in a cosmic balancing of wrongs, is insidiously helpful to wrong-doers. It engenders inaction, an excuse to avoid discomfort in pursuing justice. It's wishful thinking, and lazy. The lions aren't going to stop eating the wildebeests until the wildebeest bulls form a line, and protect the herd. The lions aren't going to go to hell or suffer anything other than a fully belly, just from wildebeests wishing it was so.

Fear and desperation leads to powerhunger,

true~ish. I'd more describe it that the desire for power comes from the sensation of helplessness. It can be closely related to fear, very often is. But I draw a subtle distinction, because you don't HAVE to fear helplessness to dislike helplessness.

Brandishing power, is definitely a strong indicator of insecurity though (usually). Which is a form of fear.
Fear is one of the main tools to cause evil in to the world.

definitely.
I see those poeple as victims. But it doesn't have to be so. I can't hate them anymore. I believe I know the truth which can get them out of their dire situation. I'll post an essey about this topic on these forums.
A spirit of conflict resolution rather than reaction, comes from a place of low-fear. Tends to be a sign of power or strength, but it can just be a sign of maturity as well. 2 paths to that frame of mind.
I'm a huge fan of conflict resolution. Though I come by it the 'dirty' low minded route :P accumulate enough power, and you start to feel silly using it.
"It does not breathe" is one attack, word for word, that was targeted on me a short while ago. It's a bit longer story where and how those words were heard. I'm not going to those details in this post.
that sounds interesting.
Kath wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:44 pm Energy manipulation can run into the same problem though. Or at least a highly parallel problem. You can easily visualize something without putting any "oomf" into it, without having traction or effect on energy. To get energy manipulation to work, there has to be a visceral sense of working the energy, instead of just picturing imaginary stuff. There's a feel for the energy which is difficult to describe. Good visualizations can help you dial in a of state of mind with a visceral feel for the energy. Much like in ritual, a good ritual helps achieve an altered state of mind, which is tapping into something beyond the rote paint-by-numbers motions of the ritual.

Fairly early on I realized that the visualizations are not 'literal', they convey ideas, and help guide intention, but the actual energetic effect is not necessarily literal to the imagery you choose.
I feel that the energy manipulation you're describing fits almost perfectly to my above mentioned view on what magick is and how to work it. Actually it was your very own idea about thinking of magick/psychological interactions as energy interactions between people, which made me realize the identical connections between such phenomena and tons of other magickal practises also. Especially the ones I've tested and used countless of times, imagining they are completely different things and methods, but there was a clear identical thing on their meta level, making them all exactly the same phenomenon.
I never cease to be amazed how many ways a blind man can describe an elephant completely differently, and yet all be talking about the same elephant ;)

Kath wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:44 pm I mean if you visualize hardening the energy into a sphere around you to act like a buffer against outside energetic influence, that works fine, and I think it's fairly close to what's actually happening. But, what if you visualize the energy turning into a sphere of fierce plushie toys?
I'm still using methods you describe above. I still find them useful and convenient. Also partly becuase I haven't spent enough time figuring out how to choose the proper words to achieve the same effects using my above mentioned "approach".
Makes sense.
I was just illustrating the non-literal nature of visualized energy manipulation.
As kind of a precursor concept to the idea of just 'doing things' through an interplay of perception and will, without encoding it into an effable relatable form.
I kinda think using words as you describe is another representative form. I think it's super helpful! but ultimately there's the underlying 'doing', which isn't married to any of the possible approaches.

I still can't feel the magickal energy. I can only observe the effects such practises have. I also have to experiment how much it affects the effect I produce.
It's a subtle thing.
go stand inside someone's personal space. uncomfortably close. (ideally someone who won't call the police or freak out hehe).
what do you feel? why? what's the substance of that feeling?
Sure there's this feeling self conscious because you're violating a social norm. But there's more to feel. Why is it a social norm in the first place? feel 'that'. Observe it, analyze it from within the visceral experience of it, and from a detached mindset (maybe both at once if you feel able). Touch the person (not inappropriately). What was that you felt? What intensified at the moment of contact?
Eventually notice that you don't just feel that from people, but objects too.
extrapolate.
And then realize that there are objects and entities you can't see.
And that 'touch' is just one of multiple channels of interaction.
That you're immersed in a sea of such interactions. That the hard part in feeling it, is that you're constantly feeling it.

If a fish lives it's whole life in a lake. It would struggle to conceive of the idea of not being immersed in water. That can make it almost hard for the fish to realize that water exists. That being wet is something other than just 'the nature of the universe', a background acceptance, never consciously contemplated. I think it's not so much that you don't feel energy, it's that you've never NOT felt energy, so it's hard to discern it. Like if there was a background sound throughout all of existence, you'd just regard it as the nature of hearing, and never understand it as a sound. Unless the sound went silent, that would be a panic, "wtf just happened to my ears???" hehe.
Shielding (if done very effectively) can give glimpses into perceiving things better, by way of this.
I have noticed that the more I do shadow work, the more I peel off useless/harmful layers from my psyche. From under those layers I start noticing more and more easily from where my throughts are coming from and what kind of thoughts they really are before coming to my conscious mind. In essence this is what you instructed me to do some while ago. I have started to reach the point where I can tell that I notice a clear difference to my old self in self-observation. In other words: my mind clarity has been hidden under tons and tons of crap which was only hindering my progress and sense of what's happening in my mind. I still have lots of work to do thought. The process has become much faster and easier after learning some simple truths which to compare my thoughts against. I.e. "I think I'll do this... AH! There's the underlying thought again, peeking slightly from under covers!" etc.
Shifting the sense of self, or the sense of your center-point of mind, from the internal dialogue towards the underlying 'raw' thought.
It's multi-threaded though, a little more chaotic. And it entertains ALL of the facets of yourself, not just the facets you've come to welcome as 'self'. So it takes a fearless and non-judgmental approach to really dive into it.

When you think of something that happened to you years ago all the time, you are thinking about the thought of the thought. For example if you think of your dishwasher in your previous apartment, you don't think it in a very visual sense nor do you think of it in any kind of detail at all. What you're doing is acknowledging it's existence and what it meant to you, what it used to do to you, i.e. it gave you clean dishes once you had loaded it with dirty ones. You don't go into the details, but stay on the abstract level of it. Idea level. That's the thought of the thought of something. Now with that thought-of-the-thought in mind give it some simple and clear instruction. Like "make a sound I can hear" and observe if you hear a click from your dishwasher. :)
I'd argue it goes even deeper than that. I'd argue that most people who are in love, aren't in love with the other person, they're in love with their thought of the other person.

Kinda ties into the idea of my mentor not wanting to use a phonetic name. Labels intensify one's focus on the idea of a thing, rather than the essence of it.

Kath wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:44 pm For example, you could make a very short string which connects two points that on a material level are on opposite sides of the globe. You could even do something which mechanically seems like a causality violation to our sense of time. So in a sense, the 'tool-set' in terms of physical principals is much broader, and that helps expand your potential options with engineering.
My experience leans towards the observation that distance has zero effect on the effectiveness of a "spell" or magickal effect.
Ya, but i mean, there's multiple aspects to the immaterial realm which differ from material, dispersed, time-bound reality. And those represent a sort of toolbox for applying leverage which would not work if you built a material version.
How to put it... you can use impossible geometry and causality violations in your magical constructs.

For that I have started using the method I mentioned in this post. It seems to be effective for my own emotions as well as emotions heightened and induced by adverse entities. I can also as easily use the exact same method to target "the thing that's causing this feeling in me" without having to figure out if it's a spirtual entity or something else. :)
ya, that approach targets the symptom rather than the cause. but it can be pretty effective and has a lot of utility.
I was just really shocked at how easy it is. how unbound from effort or determination, just a the right approach and a tiny application of will, and 'woosh', effect accomplished.

Kath wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:44 pm Lastly, I find myself shifting more and more away from "visualizing" when doing energy manipulation. In many ways, visualizing is itself a sort of ritual format. A rather loosey goosey, freelance form, but still. I find myself leaning more on the sensation/perception of energy, and the sensation of control of energy, directly. Rather than envisioning it and then trying to connect effect with what's envisioned. So in a sense my "method" is increasingly on just using focus/will/intent/mental state to just "do" things, sans-technique.

Although there is still method/technique in the manner which energy is moved/formed/imbued, there's not much technique in the approach to moving/forming/imbuing. As though energy manipulation is kinda like breathing, rather than something I have to think about how to accomplish or tap into.

All of this while bearing in mind that I feel like "energy manipulation" is a slightly inaccurate term for it. Like there must be a more accurate, more nuanced term, but I don't know what that term would be. Words are very limited things. Perhaps "effecting immaterial reality in accordance with Will & intent", which in turn can have some possible material effects.
You are describing about moving closer and closer to the exact method I explained here. No need of energies etc. You aren't actually using any energies at all. You are simply directly instructing The Universe/God/The Source itself what you want to happen and it does all the heavy lifing and process design for you. You simply describe the end result you wish to have and be done with it. :) That's why I think "magick" is a really misleading word to describe what's really happening under the hood. Once you think everything through that lens, things start making a lot of sense, including every single form and rule about backlash and what's possible using magick, etc. Also a lot of history of magick and what's happening in the world starts making a lot of sense, including which parts of religions are probably bullshit and what's the true original (and also the present but forgotten and lied about) meaning of "magick". I.e. why does it exist at all? Why do humans have it in the first place? Who is meant to have it? (hint: absolutely every single person in the history of mankind, but people were made distracted and forget about the "magick" or rather communication method/channel/connection) And last but not least: why do evil spirits also teach it but only the more obfuscated and less effective form of it?
I'm not convinced it's god/source etc.
It seems more to me like just realizing the "non-separateness" of everything, and exerting self-directed will onto a broader scope of the diffuse reality of which 'self' is more like a concentration rather than a distinct object.

Kath wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:44 pm There's also entity interaction. Solicitation of services, rendered by sentient beings which are innately immaterial. That can work well.
I haven't tried, but I'm fairly sure the method can be used to conjure any kind of spirit. I haven't tried it but I'd be a bit surpriced if it wouldn't work, considering what's happening when using the method and what's really causing the effects.
I don't really 'summon' for entity interaction though. I just use the 'no two points are separate' principal, and adjust my focus to touch upon another being, wherever it is. Just to clarify.

anyways, Happy New year :)

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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Kath wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:27 pm The thing which most people regard as the self, is really a kind of abstraction of the actuality of the self.
It is my experience over some decades of observing humans, that almost all have an interloper operating at the top of the personal mind (4th subplane). The entity explains that it is the human and thus the human must do what it says.

The entity forces the human to get its act together to protect the entity. This is a valuable learning for the human until late in the human stage.

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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>Does consciousness affect material aspects of this universe as we commonly know it? I suspect so, but I don't know how.

Usually there are elementals that may cooperate with the human - until they get bored. Hence beginner's luck

> I do think that the idea of throwing intentions out into the ether, to get a desired result, through an unknown series of random synchronicities... is a sound approach.

Quite so. At an intermediate stage the human may usefully intend an outcome without knowing the implementation path. Mostly it is past the human stage when the individual may choose the path as well as the outcome just by intent. Sometime other entities intervene - for good or bad

Right relationship is central to the proper use of intent

>most people who are in love, aren't in love with the other person, they're in love with their thought of the other person.

Quite so. Few humans love themselves so they go searching for love - mostly physical and emotional

> leaning more on the sensation/perception of energy, and the sensation of control of energy, directly.

When I am involved in a significant energy event, as the energy moves, I take a large involuntary in-breath - as if I have been somewhat freed by the event

>The Universe/God/The Source itself what you want to happen and it does all the heavy lifing and process design for you.

This is true at early stages but if we are sons of God then we must inherit the family business. There are many skills and achievements required

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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Amor wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:44 am It is my experience over some decades of observing humans, that almost all have an interloper operating at the top of the personal mind (4th subplane). The entity explains that it is the human and thus the human must do what it says.

The entity forces the human to get its act together to protect the entity. This is a valuable learning for the human until late in the human stage.
Interesting.

Sounds like an element of psyche within the human psychology layer of things.
>Does consciousness affect material aspects of this universe as we commonly know it? I suspect so, but I don't know how.

Usually there are elementals that may cooperate with the human - until they get bored. Hence beginner's luck
Well yeah, but I really like to know how all the nuts & bolts work.

Asking an entity or force to do something 'for' you, without knowing the specifics of how it's accomplished, has utility, within the interests of the small self's physical wants & needs. But I'm more interested in "exactly" how it works. If one only ever subcontracts the work, there is no learning of the artisanship of the 'doing'.
> I do think that the idea of throwing intentions out into the ether, to get a desired result, through an unknown series of random synchronicities... is a sound approach.

Quite so. At an intermediate stage the human may usefully intend an outcome without knowing the implementation path. Mostly it is past the human stage when the individual may choose the path as well as the outcome just by intent. Sometime other entities intervene - for good or bad
Generally speaking, there is nothing one can want in life which is not attainable through hard work, determination, good habits, etc.
And what one 'needs' in life is far easier than that.
So, I don't see a huge need for the "utility" of magic. I'm more interested in unraveling the nature of it, than using it to provide for me some basic want or need.

I'm interested in the mechanism of effect, down to the exacting details of how it works.
If an entity can do it, then so can I. I am an entity as well, so why not? If I lack the capacity in my current form, that too can be addressed, as I've already shown a dramatic evolution of nature as an entity. So what is the threadwork which weaves together intent and result at the most fundamental level? Not by way of leaning on the knowledge or efficacy of another entity, but as a science and art of my own capacities.

I'm quite good at inter-mind effects. I find it intuitive. But I have no intuition for the translation of will & intent into physical results. Be that telekinetic, manifestation, etc. There's something different between touching another mind with my mind, and touching a physical object with my mind. And I don't fully grasp the nature of the difference, at least not to the extent of being able to cause material effects with will. I know that sounds like "Oh, Kate just wants to cast Fireball"... but I have seen both macro-telekinetic and micro-telekinetic effects, synchronitic event-crafting, and at least one instance of possible physical material manifestation. And I dislike not knowing exactly how to do that, entirely by way of personal agency.

I mean, it's not on my "must do" list. I don't think it's necessary for my path. It's an interest though.

> leaning more on the sensation/perception of energy, and the sensation of control of energy, directly.

When I am involved in a significant energy event, as the energy moves, I take a large involuntary in-breath - as if I have been somewhat freed by the event
Hmmm, I haven't notice any reflex to breath in. Not even when creating a significant energy event. Granted I haven't paid close attention to my breathing in a long time. I remember a couple decades ago, that breathing control & focus was very helpful for engineering states of consciousness with which to interact with such things. I know some would regard it as a fundamental with timeless value, but honestly I just think of it as a stepping stone which was helpful for a time.

While at one time controlling breathing seemed to help focus the consciousness regarding energy. My current self is more likely to just be so focused on energy interaction that I might forget to breath. Not that I often forget to breath, just that it seems distant from what I'm focused on. I know that kinda steps on some toes in some paths I tapped into in my earlier energy manipulation practice background.
>The Universe/God/The Source itself what you want to happen and it does all the heavy lifing and process design for you.

This is true at early stages but if we are sons of God then we must inherit the family business. There are many skills and achievements required
(replying more to OneOf4th): That's the thing though, I don't want the heaving lifting and process design done for me. My interest is on learning to lift and design the process. And to be able to do so with the bare minimum (or elimination) of relying on existing lines of code.

Perhaps I should take a step back though. And first solicit an entity adept at such things for the purpose of manifest effects, and then just observe closely.

I'm reminded of when I learned how to OBE. It took me 3 years of trying to learn how to OBE, and one afternoon of trying to OBE in a way which worked for me. I feel that there is a similar turn-key "OHHHHH!" moment to the subject of creating physical effects. I want my damn epiphany moment already [rofl]

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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My own path might be called application of scientific processes to inner plane work.

Thus: observation, deduction, hypothesis, experiment (with real time peer review if possible) and observation.

So I like to observe details of mechanisms to learn how to do them.

On the other hand my physical body has some trillions of intelligences, and generally I provide them with a loving environment, reasonable living habits and some higher intent. Then I leave them to get on with it, only intervening where failure becomes a problem.

Similarly with etheric, emotional, mental and higher bodies

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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Amor wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:22 am On the other hand my physical body has some trillions of intelligences, and generally I provide them with a loving environment, reasonable living habits and some higher intent. Then I leave them to get on with it, only intervening where failure becomes a problem.
There is most definitely a lot going on that we need not concern ourselves with. I feel that the primordial has done very well in preparation with all of this, perfection on so many levels, so the quote was very much in the style of panpsychism which is what got my attention.

Ashim(A-Sheem) - souls of fire
Cornelius Coburn; Nothing

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