Imagination affecting reality

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OneOfFourth
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Imagination affecting reality

Post by OneOfFourth »

I started thinking about a semi-philosophical question:
How much of our imagination is real and how much of it is just random garbage which has no meaning nor connection to reality at all?

The reason I'm asking is the following:
Let's say you experience an astral attack. You do something visual in your minds eye to deflect/absorb/etc. the attack. What you do looks and feels the same as if you just imagined things, but still you perceive the resulting effects later in the real world. So essentially your imagination affected the reality.

What about if you just day dream about random events or about things not of this world? Where can one draw the line what will affect our world and what does not?

What about if I spend days imagining happy thoughts on unicorns? I doubt one suddenly pops into existence, but will it still somehow affect the reality? So what part of imagination is "real", i.e. part of our reality, and what part of imagination is just imagined non-reality? In other words if I imagine pushing unicorns around, what's the difference to imagining doing defensive measures against astral attacks?
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Re: Imagination affecting reality

Post by Cerber »

Yes, maybe, I guess, possibly..
To me personally, question is just too abstract to be answered in any other way but "yes, possibly, likely". It's too hard to generalize in these cases and i try to avoid it.
While some abstract hypothetical person might be just riding imaginary unicorns around, fighting imaginary monsters - does not mean that some very specific Jane was fighting imaginary monsters when she did some very specific ritual, with very specific spells, because she had some very specific experience from which she drew very specific conclusions, etc etc.
So yes, but depends..
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Re: Imagination affecting reality

Post by Amor »

There is a difference between imagining and looking. Mostly the process starts with visualization and then it moves somewhat by itself and we see things that we don't quite expect.

So we concentrate until the system starts to respond then we relax somewhat and watch the show, intervening as appropriate

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Re: Imagination affecting reality

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Hmm, both answers make sense.

I also started thinking a reason why only occasionally I get results when trying to learn how to make a simple spell work:
Maybe I should not start simply by imagining the end result, but first somehow connect/observe the world/astral/something before moving on to visualising the outcome?

How do you two approach a quick and simple spell? Do you simply visualise and imagine the feeling you have when the end result happens or do you do something else before that? Or do you approach this process in a completely different manner altogether?
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Re: Imagination affecting reality

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I am about to move residence as my rental is for sale. Every time I have moved it has turned out well. One time, I was too late for a place, and over the weekend the would-be renter dropped out so I had the place anyway. Another time I arrived at a rental but the owners were out. Just as I was about to leave they turned up and let me have the place.

This happens without any spells. I like to think that I am a net contributor to the planet and in return the planet looks after me.

I am of course positive in my attitude to obtaining what I need.

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Re: Imagination affecting reality

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I call that manifestation. I make a distinction between manifesting and spell casting:

Manifestation is usually more "ambient" or undefined in nature. When your subconscious is one with yourself, things start magically happening in your favour. Luck will be on your side and when you need something, things usually end up well. The key is not to want something, but be confident that you'll be worthy and get whatever you happen to need in any given time. Manifesting brings more into your life what your subconscious feels it already has. So if your subconscious is in the constant feel of needing X, you'll get more of that feeling of needing X, which is not what you wanted. But if your subconscious is in the state of feeling OK with what you have, you'll manifest things in your life which will keep you in the same state of mind. I.e. you'll receive things when you need them, so your feeling wont change. I've noticed that both Universe AND spirits would fit the description of working like this: spirits are attracted to subconscious feelings and do their best to boost that feeling even more, or prolong it if they can. Universe is said to do the same: it is said to give you more of what your subconscious state is currently. Are they the same thing? Dunno.

Spell casting has a clear direct goal and is usually fast in response time (but not always). So you have a clear end result in mind, do some mental exercises to achieve that one specific goal and then things work out for you one way or another.

So the approach is different. Opposite actually.
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Re: Imagination affecting reality

Post by Amor »

>So the approach is different. Opposite actually.

Are spells are about obtaining what Nature will not give you voluntariliy?

I wonder if Nature remembers what you have done? Is there a debt incurred?

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Re: Imagination affecting reality

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Amor wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:43 pm Are spells are about obtaining what Nature will not give you voluntariliy?

I wonder if Nature remembers what you have done? Is there a debt incurred?
Yes, yes and yes:
https://www.thelawofattraction.com/12-s ... -universe/

From what I've gathered, every time you break any of the Natural Laws, you will get a backlash, one way or another, at some point. It doesn't necessarily happen immediately. It can take a minute, an hour, a day, a week, or even several months, but it will eventually reach back to you. I've also gathered that if you bring good fortune for yourself by breaking Natural Laws, it might also cause harm to others without you knowing. (not 100% sure about this but it looks like it) I.e. good things are taken away from someone else so you can have that good thing. Kind of like stealing in a sense. So spells should be done very responsibly. Breaking Natural Laws probably causes collective harm to the whole humanity. Again, this is why I find it really disturbing that Law of Attraction is being taught everywhere on the internet to large audiences without teaching its side effects.

The key takeaway is that breaking any of the Natural Laws will bring backlash with 100% certainty. There is absolutely no way around it, ever, under any circumstances. It's the law of the universe. That's how absolutely everything works.

Also notice that Natural Laws don't care the slightest bit if you are aware of them or not. They still apply to everyone equally. Natural Laws are like gravity: if parents leave a child unattended and the child walks off a cliff, does gravity feel pity for the ignorance of the child and not affect it? Nope. The child still falls just like everything else, and gets hurt. Such is Natural Law also. Break a Natural Law unknowingly? Too bad: here's the backlash!

This is also why I'm an advocate of doing spells that only affect yourself mentally or spiritually. Then it's really hard to affect anyone else; you won't be harming other people.
Last edited by OneOfFourth on Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Imagination affecting reality

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>I'm an advocate of doing spells that only affect yourself mentally,

A reasonable position, but still you are imposing on the nature spirit that operates your personal mind. If that nature spirit gets upset with you then it will sometimes withdraw cooperation - and go on strike.

The transpersonal mind, properly has both a nature spirit and a higher deva - but most Earth humans are not conscious in their higher mind.

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Re: Imagination affecting reality

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Amor wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:46 pm >I'm an advocate of doing spells that only affect yourself mentally,

A reasonable position, but still you are imposing on the nature spirit that operates your personal mind. If that nature spirit gets upset with you then it will sometimes withdraw cooperation - and go on strike.
Quite possibly. If you affect a spirit by breaking or pushing back to any of the Natural Laws, there will be some kind of backlash. Maybe even in the form of an annoyed spirit who won't co-operate.
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Re: Imagination affecting reality

Post by Amor »

Since the Being that uses this solar system as Its body of manifestation (the Solar Logos) is at this stage of development, a god of love, right relationship is the basis for most constructive dealings.

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Re: Imagination affecting reality

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Now that I think of it, I think there is probably a loophole in the Natural Laws regarding what gives a backlash and to whom:

I don't think Natural Laws actually take into account things affecting the mind, due to Free Will. Or if they do, the effects are greatly diminished when operating in that area. Natural Laws give backlash to the one who breaks them aka. ACTS AGAINST them. So basically this would mean that if you can persuade/manipulate/coarse/threaten/blackmail/etc. someone to act against Natural Laws, that person (not you) gets the backlash. Free Will after all. The victim has a choice given by Free Will to either comply to your demands or to not act upon them.

This also means that you can use implanted suggestions, demonic possessions, illusion magick, and other ways to affect person's thinking process and mental state to get them to co-operate or to do what you want them to do. All without backlash. That kind of nasty mind game practise will most likely eventually get the victim in such a mental state, that Law of Attraction will start kicking in and destroys that person's life, while those manifestations probably break some Natural Laws.

All this fits 100% perfectly and explains exactly why and how the mage group operates, which I've mentioned couple of times.

This would also mean that if someone wants to be as evil as possible without getting a backlash, they should consider career in politics ;-)
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Re: Imagination affecting reality

Post by Amor »

>Natural Laws give backlash
>that person (not you) gets the backlash.


Which intelligences operate Natural Law?

How smart are they?

You may consider that Natural Law is an allegory used to teach humans.

>due to Free Will

Again we have a teaching allegory.

Ultimately free will may merely consist of deciding to face upstream or downstream as the River of Life sweeps us to the Cosmic Ocean. Those that look downstream have opportunities to steer around obstacles to the flow.

>someone wants to be as evil

Again the concept of good and evil are teaching devices. The appropriate light-dark balance for a human changes hour by hour. It is excess light or excess darkness that gives rise to what humans call evil. Even then their perspective is personal and localised.

Much of what is called evil is the out-working of cosmic karma.

You may recall that Mao Tse Tung was once asked if the French Revolution was a success. He replied: It is too early to tell.

Similarly with good and evil.

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Re: Imagination affecting reality

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Amor wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:44 pm Which intelligences operate Natural Law?

How smart are they?
Natural Law is said to be:
- created and operated by the Universe/Source/God/whatever_you_want_to_call_it/all encompassing universal intelligence/mind.
- immutable.
- same throughout the universe.
- discoverable and testable; you can test it whenever and where ever and you always get the same results from testing it. (i.e. more science than religion)

Amor wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:44 pm >due to Free Will

Again we have a teaching allegory.

Ultimately free will may merely consist of deciding to face upstream or downstream as the River of Life sweeps us to the Cosmic Ocean. Those that look downstream have opportunities to steer around obstacles to the flow.
That is possible. However, the below points are also been said how the real Natural Law really fits the big picture of the universe. It's left to be decided who is right and who is wrong.


World view schism / Left brain dominant imbalance / Randomness ideology:
- The Universe is a Grand Accident
- There is no Creator therefore there is no underlying Intelligence in Nature
- There is no such thing as Spiritual/Moral/Natural Law
- Existence has no Purpose other than to continue to exist

World view schism / Right brain dominant imbalance / Determinism ideology:
- God controls every event in creation
- All occurences are pre-ordained
- Free Will is an illusion and does not exist
- Since God controls everything, Change is impossible
- Action is ultimately meaningless

Truth lies in between those two extremes:
- Natural Law (deterministic component) + Free Will (random component)
- Natural Law is determined/deterministic. It's set in stone and works 100% of the time.


I'm trying to decide what's true and what's not. But looking at what people do and what are the consequences, Natural Law sure does seem like a real thing.
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Re: Imagination affecting reality

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So what intelligences operate the Natural Law locally? (The Lords of the Planes and the Lords of Karma?)

Was Natural Law the same before the pralaya - when perhaps there were different experiential learning objectives for the manifested universe?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pralaya

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Re: Imagination affecting reality

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Amor wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:48 pm So what intelligences operate the Natural Law locally? (The Lords of the Planes and the Lords of Karma?)

Was Natural Law the same before the pralaya - when perhaps there were different experiential learning objectives for the manifested universe?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pralaya
I have no idea what Pralaya is so can't comment on that.

Natural Law is probably operated by the same intelligence which operates gravity.

Natural Law is said to affect sentient beings. It says that specific actions cause chaos/order, etc.
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Re: Imagination affecting reality

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I don't really believe in Natural Laws, or a governance over such.
I avoid cruelty because I don't like it.
I'm not beholden to play nice, I just choose to play nice. It's not set in stone, but it's my preference.
I think things get very convoluted and twisted and hypocritical when people put the onus of enforcing ethical conduct outside themselves.

Free will very very rarely exists in an unmolested state. Hell, even belief in an overseeing ethics enforcement system (whether it's real or imaginary either way) molests free will quite a lot.

If there were an overseeing ethics board, I'd tell he/she/it/them to kiss my ass. Even if i were to be judged, I'd rather be judged for what I Will to do, not what I am coerced to do. If an overseer dislikes my behavior, then it is my judgement that they have poor taste. I am not a subject. To me that seems fundamental to even begin to have free will.

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Re: Imagination affecting reality

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The Lords of Karma are usually satisfied when right relationships are established. At that stage, if asked politely, they will often cancel karma - at least for individuals

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Re: Imagination affecting reality

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Imagination is the microcosm - the mind of man. Reality is the macrocosm - the mind of God. The former cannot affect the latter, unless it is the will of the latter.

Neither here nor there : CCoburn : The Road Scribe

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Re: Imagination affecting reality

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Spida wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:11 pm Imagination is the microcosm - the mind of man. Reality is the macrocosm - the mind of God. The former cannot affect the latter, unless it is the will of the latter.
Yet consciousness, and self, are not strictly speaking finite. The incarnation is finite. But self is broader than the incarnation. The self is something non-finite, truncated into a finite thing. I think this is the basis by which magic is possible. And what is magic if not imagination affecting reality? And how often do we do magic without even the thought or intent to do so?

None of which really contradicts what you said.

But the will to do something, anything, is born of the finite aspect of self, which embodies individuality, and through individuality, persona, and will. Perhaps to put it more poetically (and maybe more clearly); does the infinite really have a preference? An ego saying "I want this, but not that"? Neteru have names and faces, but neter neteru has neither.

Which isn't to say that a being possessing individual thought couldn't stand between a person's Will and it's effect.
Perhaps we just have something slightly different in mind regarding the word "god".

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Re: Imagination affecting reality

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Spida wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:11 pm Imagination is the microcosm - the mind of man. Reality is the macrocosm - the mind of God. The former cannot affect the latter, unless it is the will of the latter.
One of the interesting characteristics of the mental plane is that its substance is breathed in and out of the minds that are operating in that plane. This means that my mental substance, when discharged is used by other intelligences that operate in that frequency range. My pre-use of the substance may be of benefit to lesser beings, by making the mental substance more amenable to forming structures.

Does the mind of God operate on the mental plane? Perhaps it operates on the higher analogues: the Cosmic Mental Plane, or even the Universal Mental Plane.

If so, what resonances occur between the Cosmic Mental Plane and our mental plane? Is resonance how God communicates to Man?

http://esoteric-guide.blogspot.com/2017 ... ng-to.html

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Re: Imagination affecting reality

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Kath wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:21 pm Yet consciousness, and self, are not strictly speaking finite. The incarnation is finite. But self is broader than the incarnation. The self is something non-finite, truncated into a finite thing.
Individuality and the defining of it is something I've been drawn to a bit more lately. Currently I've been leaning more towards the concept of the soul, or, identity, as recurring eternally, but not existing eternally. The physical vessel does appear to be paramount here in defining identity, but of course there is something "broader" that does exist eternally, for the most part, that is "truncated" into individual existences that are finite.

And the only thing that comes to mind relative to the above would be the primordial consciousness, and the fact that the term consciousness(for lack of a better) is used to denote both the micro and macrocosmic occurrences is most likely a disservice.

I do like the idea that a thing that is not faith based renders such a pleasing model when viewed through a particular lens. I enjoy the thought that everything that has ever existed came from a single source, and will return to it, and although it may not be what most have in mind. It does give an impression of reunification after death, and reminds me of this passage from a while back :

The Silence

Ex nigrum holoserica mare silentium ego veni et ex unde ego revertetur noli timere eam erat origo de omnia quod erat habetis dilexit...

From the black velvet sea of silence I come, and from whence I return, but fear not, it is the source of all that was ever loved.


Neither here nor there : CCoburn : The Road Scribe

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Re: Imagination affecting reality

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Spida wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:19 am The physical vessel does appear to be paramount here in defining identity, but of course there is something "broader" that does exist eternally, for the most part, that is "truncated" into individual existences that are finite.
I was with a female friend who is a visitor to the planet and currently subject to a standard oppression system. I wanted to make it clear to her that she was a visitor, not human.

So I had her project outside the galaxy to look at her real self. She immediately said: Oh what a lovely gown.

So I asked her what form her real self was taking outside the galaxy. She was unsure, but I could see clearly that out there she is an insectoid.

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Re: Imagination affecting reality

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Amor wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:38 pm The Lords of Karma are usually satisfied when right relationships are established. At that stage, if asked politely, they will often cancel karma - at least for individuals
I've been thinking about this post on & off. I read it a while ago, but wanted to dwell on my thoughts about it. Every part of it seems wrong to me, but I didn't want to speak in haste. Wanted to find a vaguely articulate way to express the bad vibes I got from it.

What is karma? The idea that people do things rightly or wrongly, and should feel shame or retribution if they do it wrongly? Worded differently yes, much more poetically, but that is what's being said. "Right action (...or else)" Wrongly according to whom? It is no different than the idea of heaven & hell, it's just wrapped up in an idea about equal and opposite reactions, taking physics wildly out of context. The physics principal merely posits that when a person shoots someone, that the gun will recoil. Applying it to ethical questions of behavior is most definitely not physics.

I'm not saying that there is no right & wrong. But right & wrong is individually derived. Seeded by our own philosophies, fertilized by those ideals taught to us, and watered our sense of empathy. I'm perfectly happy to behave monstrously towards someone in the name of what I think is right. But I don't surround it in any pretenses of 'being' right in some absolute sense. Who is the hero and who is the villain doesn't have the same role casting in every story. I'm the heroine of my story, and there is no official cannon. That is enough.

Sva-Dharma is grossly misinterpreted, and this is intentional. It is twisted to mean that people of different classes or genders have different karmic responsibilities & rules. In other words, it is twisted to mean that unfairness is just. Twisted to support the hierarchies of social stratification. It's not coincidence that India has one of the biggest gaps in wealth and personal agency in the world. What everyone seems to think of when they think of karma is a twisted and dim shadow of the concept, remade to serve social cohesion and the interests of those in power, rather than some higher purpose.

Karma is just this: That you have a higher self. Or perhaps more accurately a broader self. That the small sliver of self which most people hold dear as their identity is only a fraction of their whole. And that when you act in resonance with that broader, more holistic self, you reinforce that which you are. While if you act in discord to that broader, more holistic self, you diminish that which you are.

Of course then there is the problem of knowing the Will of the 'whole' of yourself. That is no small feat. And the answers are always merely partially true, as you are a broad and divergent gem of many facets. But if you know the whole of self, you can at least ensure that you take the course of the most broadly representative action.

There is no delayed effect. No arbiters of rightness. No gatekeepers or overseers. Nothing of the trappings of human hierarchies, spanning out into the infinite all, to play parental figure. No absolute. You simply be you, and the you-ness of you is increased. Or you be not you, and the you-ness of you is diminished. And the latter should be most accurately considered "self harm". And it is immediate in it's effect.

You don't work off bad karma like a cosmic community service sentence. You simply learn (...eventually) to stop incurring it, and move on to greater purposes.

I don't dislike the idea of kissing the ass of a perceived higher power to be edgy or petulant. And I have nothing against politeness. If anything, I practice it in daily life diligently. If there are 2 things I am guilty of more than anything else, it is that I overthink things, and that I am almost too easy to get along with. The later doesn't always come across in text though, I admit. But if some cosmic entity wants any greater deference paid to it than a friendly smile, then my smile only lessens.

Setting aside the existence of "lords of karma": Even a fascination with kissing their ass is IN ITSELF bad karma, subjugating the truest expression of self on the altar of complaisance. Self harm.

There was one other issue which struck me as well. The idea of trying to uh... how to put it. "weasel out of karmic debt" That vibe kinda turned me off too. I don't believe in karmic 'debt', or 'lords of karma'. But if I did, kissing their ass to get out of trouble just sounds lame as hell. Even if karma worked exactly as you suggest, I'd be frankly insulted by any karmic lord who would want me to kiss a ring to get off easy. If I were actually approached by a lord of karma, and they actually had an ethics log-book on me, etc. and wanted me to bow low to get a lighter sentence, I'd just tell them that they're shit at their job, and to peddle their ego trip on someone else.

Anyway, your post didn't bother me in a debate-minded argumentative way. I rather like to debate and see ideas spar, that's not bothersome at all. And usually i'm not particularly married to the ideas themselves, even if I want each idea to perform valiantly in the gladiator's pit of discussion. This reaction isn't that impulse of mine. I always allow for the possibility of being wrong, and actually rather embrace it as an opportunity. But I'm not just playing devils advocate with ideas here. My reaction to what you said is more emotional. I got a bad feeling from it. I think that I'm correct. And if I am, then what you typed is hurtful, not to me, but to you. So I wanted to say something. Because I don't like seeing people hurt. I'm not saying your hurt my feelings or anything, but through empathy, I have heartfelt concern.
And I'm not playing the "kindness as insult" card. Not at all. I really hate that in RHP circles hehe. I wouldn't do that.

Granted if I were any sort of guru, it would be as a fairly heretical one. I tend to think that organized religion (like any organization of humans) is prone to twisting even the best of ideas into something drastically apart from its original intent. So perhaps take me with a grain of salt, as I'm not stating anything like a majority viewpoint. And if after carefully pondering this, you disagree with what I've said. I'm genuinely and openly anxious to hear your thoughts.

and sorry, I'm being overly wordy as always :P

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Re: Imagination affecting reality

Post by Kath »

Spida wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:19 amCurrently I've been leaning more towards the concept of the soul, or, identity, as recurring eternally, but not existing eternally. The physical vessel does appear to be paramount here in defining identity, but of course there is something "broader" that does exist eternally, for the most part, that is "truncated" into individual existences that are finite.
That's been my focus for a pretty long time.
Initially as a kind of focus on the idea of something like an 'immaterial & non-technological transhumanism'. But eventually as a more pure interest for the sake of knowing.
And the only thing that comes to mind relative to the above would be the primordial consciousness, and the fact that the term consciousness(for lack of a better) is used to denote both the micro and macrocosmic occurrences is most likely a disservice.
yet there is a thread of connection betwixt

Ex nigrum holoserica mare silentium ego veni et ex unde ego revertetur noli timere eam erat origo de omnia quod erat habetis dilexit...

From the black velvet sea of silence I come, and from whence I return, but fear not, it is the source of all that was ever loved.
I googled the latin but didn't see a source. I'm curious what that's from? I like it.

Ok, now that's just uncanny. I was perusing bands covering songs like this (nightwish and similar), right at the time you posted your post.

Also a little uncanny is that Minniva (the lady doing the cover song there) could pass as a younger sister to me.
I hadn't seen her in a video before. IF she's using colored contacts (pretty sure she is) and IF her underlying eye color is a coppery color, then even more so.

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