Reading Books While Astral Projecting/ Lucid Dreaming

[Dr Strange Stuff]

Hey all! Before you read any further, there will be spoilers for the movie Dr. Strange! Continue at your own risk.

Spoiler:

So I recently watched Dr Strange (I would recommend it; I mean it was so good I based my forum name off of it psh!) and in the movie I noticed as he was sleeping he astral projected and was reading a book by his bedside. This may be Lucid dreaming, but as far as I have been able to find on the internet, you can't read in lucid dreams, and if you can it is only material you've read before. I would like to think that as his body slept, he astral projected and read books to further his knowledge base. I would like to be able to do this. That would give me at least 6 hours of reading per night, and I won't have to ask so many questions on here hah! Please let me know if there is a book or two regarding this, and if you have any experiences. Also if it is overwhelmingly obvious so those with more knowledge than me that this is and will forever be impossible, let me know so I don't waste my time.

Again, thanks for any and all responses. And seriously, the movie was pretty badass. You should watch it.

[Rin]

I've never heard anything about people reading physical books while projecting during sleep, as you describe. There are other possibilities along that line though - it's possible to have dialogues with spirits or attend lectures given by spiritual teachers while projecting during sleep.

There are also plenty of sources which are, in my view, reliable, which claim that it is possible to practice certain meditations while lucid dreaming/astral projecting (or, in some cases, in place of sleeping). Finally, it is supposedly possible to access the akashic record while sleeping and projecting, which would theoretically allow one to access any recorded information (although the amount of information accessible is supposedly limited by the spiritual maturity of the reader).

[Shinichi]

It depends. I've read books and things while in other realms, and I've seen others who have as well (this and this both come to mind). I'm also reminded of how Edgar Cayce fell asleep on his school books, and woke up with all of the information of the books in his head (a kind of Psychometry, I believe, as I've experimented with similar things).

But most people don't have the natural talents of Edgar Cayce, and most people do not sufficiently train their mental and astral bodies before running off to explore this or that thing. There are a lot of people who cannot even see the material plane when they leave their body, much less interact with it. So if you want to do things like that, it's going to take you years of training and education.



~:Shin:~

[Dr Strange Stuff]

It's possible to have dialogues with spirits or attend lectures given by spiritual teachers while projecting during sleep.
Finally, it is supposedly possible to access the akashic record while sleeping and projecting, which would theoretically allow one to access any recorded information (although the amount of information accessible is supposedly limited by the spiritual maturity of the reader).

These two things interest me very much. Is there any chance you have any experience with either? Maybe a book or two on the subjects? I'm not sure if you have experience with the NAP Magic Mentor but this sounds a lot like that and if it is then I (might) have made an introduction already hah. Thanks for your response.

I'm also reminded of how Edgar Cayce fell asleep on his school books, and woke up with all of the information of the books in his head (a kind of Psychometry, I believe, as I've experimented with similar things).

How did your experiences go with Psychometry? That sounds like an invaluable skill to have, expecially if you have narcolepsy xD. I all seriousness, would it be useful for me to read all of Edgar Cayce's books or will I be able to experiment with this when I finish the IIH?
[quote/"Shinichi"]So if you want to do things like that, it's going to take you years of training and education. [/quote]
The training I get, do X every day 1 or 2 times a day. The education is where I am lacking the books or courses to lead me in the right direction. Could you recommend some books or authors of material that I could use to hone this skill? Also, would you recommend any other programs besides or in addition to the IIH?
Thanks again.

[Shinichi]

How did your experiences go with Psychometry?

They were fun.

That sounds like an invaluable skill to have, expecially if you have narcolepsy xD.

How useful any given skill is depends on your capacity to use it. If you want a popculture example of Psychometry, I rather like Steven Kings The Dead Zone - the book, the movie, or the TV series.

I all seriousness, would it be useful for me to read all of Edgar Cayce's books or will I be able to experiment with this when I finish the IIH?

Cayce didn't write any books. He would lay on a couch, go into a trance wherein a higher spiritual force could speak through him (not Mediumship, per se, but something else), and he would answer whatever question was asked of him in this trance because he was speaking from the Akashic Records. Cayce gave more than 14,000 readings like this, many of which have been organized into specific subjects (his readings on Atlantis, or his readings on health issues, or his explanations of reincarnation and karma) and published into books. You can also read them online as I recall, but I don't remember the website.

His readings are interesting if you have the time and interest, but they won't help you much with training. As for the IIH, you can develop Psychometry later on, usually after the work of Step 7. Psychometry is, after all, just a matter of reading the metaphysical and psychic information in any given object. The memories of an object or a space. Oh, if you read the very end of Step 10 where Bardon talks about all the different skills you can learn, he has a small section on Psychometry there.

The training I get, do X every day 1 or 2 times a day. The education is where I am lacking the books or courses to lead me in the right direction. Could you recommend some books or authors of material that I could use to hone this skill? Also, would you recommend any other programs besides or in addition to the IIH?

My book recommendations depend on what you want to focus on. Desecrated has a good beginners book list here. I think he had another thread around here recently too, but I can't find it right now.

Education takes time, so don't try to rush it. I've been actively studying and training for more than a decade, and I'm still learning. Just read one book at a time, practice the basics daily, and over time you will grow.



~:Shin:~

[Dr Strange Stuff]

Well, I am very new to the occult scene in general, and I have read that setting long term goals is required before establishing steps to those goals, and establishing steps is required before you can take meaningful action towards the long term goals. Since I really like the sound of mental/psychic copies of myself going about and reading on my behalf or being taught by a magic mentor would increase the amount of information I gain and photographic memory would allow me to keep that information forever, those goals are most obvious to me. And by what you say, the psychic copies aren't all that "amazing" to someone at your level of development. Is there somewhere I could go that realistically categorizes skills that can be obtained in a sort of hierarchy? You have to know how to write sigils before you can make a servitor, then know how to charge the servitor or "feed" it before it can be useful. Before you can make an egregore you have to know how to make a servitor etc. Could I find anywhere a list or explanation of other "higher level" skills that will help me figure out what my foundation should be built on? I know life isn't like Skyrim, but it makes for good metaphors. If I wanted to summon a Daedra, I would have to learn how to summon a fire imp first. My problem is, that I don't know if daedra are a part of our reality, or if I compiled the skills X, Y, and Z, I might be able to create one, if that makes sense.

[corvidus]

Shinichi has a wonderful thread dedicated to Fundamental Development

[Dr Strange Stuff]

I'll check that jazz out then. Thanks for the link

[Shinichi]

Well, I am very new to the occult scene in general, and I have read that setting long term goals is required before establishing steps to those goals, and establishing steps is required before you can take meaningful action towards the long term goals.

Then pick a system that you want to focus on. Hermetics, Traditional Witchcraft, Chaos Magick, Daoist Alchemy or Western Alchemy, Yoga. Pick a system and focus on it for a while, reading all the books you can and doing the training to grow. A lot of us can point you to books on certain systems, or advise you on practices that build you up in a particular system. But those are your short term things. If you want a long term (ie, several years) goal that is doable, pick a system and start your research and experimentation.

Maybe, if you are just not sure about what path to walk, learn a good system of divination first. Then, Divine your way to the path. Ask the gods, your Higher Self, your HGA, or whatever you consider a higher power to guide you. Ask Fate to show you the direction best suited to your personal nature - not the direction that is most powerful, or coolest, or whatever. The best direction suited to your personal nature, because you can have all the love in the world for something and still suck at it. [tongue] Once you get an answer, walk in that direction.

And yes, in the mean time, there are methods of practice that will provide you skills (Concentration, ect) which are applicable to pretty much every system in existence. Fundamental Development was designed to be that kind of "Neutral" practice, designed to build almost universally basic skills. I've gotten mostly good reviews on it so far. [thumbup]

Since I really like the sound of mental/psychic copies of myself going about and reading on my behalf or being taught by a magic mentor would increase the amount of information I gain and photographic memory would allow me to keep that information forever, those goals are most obvious to me. And by what you say, the psychic copies aren't all that "amazing" to someone at your level of development.

Don't become too obsessed with any particular skill. The Path is about building up you, not about learning this skill or that. Years spent gaining a photographic memory can go down the drain with one bad accident that leaves you with amnesia, a diagnosis of Alzheimers, or any one of a million other things. But if you work on your spiritual development, if you evolve, then it doesn't matter if you forget everything, or if you can't send ghosts around, or read minds, or make the wind blow when you tell it to. All of that can come and go, but you will remain, left better or worse by the initiations you have done.

Is there somewhere I could go that realistically categorizes skills that can be obtained in a sort of hierarchy? You have to know how to write sigils before you can make a servitor, then know how to charge the servitor or "feed" it before it can be useful. Before you can make an egregore you have to know how to make a servitor etc. Could I find anywhere a list or explanation of other "higher level" skills that will help me figure out what my foundation should be built on? I know life isn't like Skyrim, but it makes for good metaphors. If I wanted to summon a Daedra, I would have to learn how to summon a fire imp first. My problem is, that I don't know if daedra are a part of our reality, or if I compiled the skills X, Y, and Z, I might be able to create one, if that makes sense.

Kinda, but generally no. Different schools categorize skills in different ways. Bardon has a very plain organization of work. Orders like the Golden Dawn have a particular organization of doing this ritual, then that one. Most schools of Daoist work have stages of practice with different skills learned at each level of initiation. Yoga is especially categorized, but Yoga will also especially tell you to not focus too much on Siddhis (Skills) because they can be a distraction from your real work, your spiritual evolution.

But every single one of those schools or systems organize things differently. Bardon leaves Telepathy as something to experiment with after completing Step 10, for example, yet that is something I learned how to do years before I even really started practicing the IIH. In many schools, including Bardon, leaving your body is something highly advanced and not to be done unless you go through many stages of other training. Yet in Shamanistic schools, or for folks like Robert Bruce, something like leaving your body is relatively basic.

In Elder Scrolls, let's see...the analogy would be like choosing your guild, I think. Been a while since I played. Each guild has it's own organization of skills, yes? But they are different skills, and organized in different ways, according to the needs of the profession or whatever. So you can't just expect a universal organization. The organization is certainly there, that's what schools and Orders and "systems" are for, after all. But you have to pick a path to walk, then level up within that guild's ranking system. [tongue]



~:Shin:~

[Dr Strange Stuff]

Then pick a system that you want to focus on. Hermetics, Traditional Witchcraft, Chaos Magick, Daoist Alchemy or Western Alchemy, Yoga. Pick a system and focus on it for a while, reading all the books you can and doing the training to grow. A lot of us can point you to books on certain systems, or advise you on practices that build you up in a particular system. But those are your short term things. If you want a long term (ie, several years) goal that is doable, pick a system and start your research and experimentation.


Maybe, if you are just not sure about what path to walk, learn a good system of divination first. Then, Divine your way to the path. Ask the gods, your Higher Self, your HGA, or whatever you consider a higher power to guide you. Ask Fate to show you the direction best suited to your personal nature - not the direction that is most powerful, or coolest, or whatever. The best direction suited to your personal nature, because you can have all the love in the world for something and still suck at it. [tongue] Once you get an answer, walk in that direction.

Well, since I am about a week into the IIH, I guess I'll continue that until I finish it. I feel like all magic is doable and a possibility, but I do need to talk to my Higher self to establish my path. Part of that making contact is begin able to use divination effectively, so I am practicing that daily as well.

Don't become too obsessed with any particular skill. The Path is about building up you, not about learning this skill or that. Years spent gaining a photographic memory can go down the drain with one bad accident that leaves you with amnesia, a diagnosis of Alzheimers, or any one of a million other things. But if you work on your spiritual development, if you evolve, then it doesn't matter if you forget everything, or if you can't send ghosts around, or read minds, or make the wind blow when you tell it to. All of that can come and go, but you will remain, left better or worse by the initiations you have done.

The way you worded this interests me. "If I work on my spiritual development, if I evolve , then it doesn't matter"... Do all initiations have to do with spiritual evolution? I have always (wrongly) thought of spiritual evolution as going and doing activities with a guru or monk or something, and magic being distinctly different.

In Elder Scrolls, let's see...the analogy would be like choosing your guild, I think. Been a while since I played. Each guild has it's own organization of skills, yes? But they are different skills, and organized in different ways, according to the needs of the profession or whatever. So you can't just expect a universal organization. The organization is certainly there, that's what schools and Orders and "systems" are for, after all. But you have to pick a path to walk, then level up within that guild's ranking system. [tongue]



~:Shin:~

I feel like the guild analogy is very appropriate for this. Now all I need is the tutorial for the game to pop up and say "Joining the Hermetics guild will give you Skills X,Y, and Z Skills and 1,000 Soul Experience" haha
Slow and steady wins the race, so now I'll master the basics and build from there.
Great responses as always Shinichi.

[corvidus]

The way you worded this interests me. "If I work on my spiritual development, if I evolve , then it doesn't matter"... Do all initiations have to do with spiritual evolution? I have always (wrongly) thought of spiritual evolution as going and doing activities with a guru or monk or something, and magic being distinctly different.

I think the evolution that Shinichi is talking about is technically an "involution" (please correct me if I'm wrong).

However, "initiations" can occur on any level -- material, astral, mental, spiritual, etc...

[Shinichi]

The way you worded this interests me. "If I work on my spiritual development, if I evolve , then it doesn't matter"... Do all initiations have to do with spiritual evolution? I have always (wrongly) thought of spiritual evolution as going and doing activities with a guru or monk or something, and magic being distinctly different.

There are different systems of Magick, with some being more spiritual than others. The whole Low Magick and High Magick distinction, and all that. Thaumaturgy and Theurgy. There are also different kinds of initiations.

In Traditional Witchcraft, there is an initiation called being Remade. Sarah Lawless talks about her experience a little here. When I was a kid and the Elemental Spirits put me through the Four Trials, those initiations included a can of gasoline exploding right in front of me (though it didn't burn me) and a bike wreck that totaled my bike and didn't leave a scratch on me even though I flew so high into the air that I bounced like a ball when I hit the ground. [tongue]

Some initiations will strengthen you. Some initiations will evolve your spirit. Some initiations are as easy as sitting in meditation and one day, suddenly, you break through to a new place. Some initiations will try you by fire, and be so intense you wonder if you'll survive and why you exist at all.

It all largely depends on what path you walk and how well you do so.

I feel like the guild analogy is very appropriate for this. Now all I need is the tutorial for the game to pop up and say "Joining the Hermetics guild will give you Skills X,Y, and Z Skills and 1,000 Soul Experience" haha

Unfortunately, there is no tutorial, because real life is not standardized. Like, a thousand different people can do the same exercise and each one will get different exp from it. That's why you have to find the best path for you, which is not always necessarily the most established.

I think the evolution that Shinichi is talking about is technically an "involution" (please correct me if I'm wrong).

I meant evolution. I am by no measure the same person that I was ten years ago, nor am I the same person that I will be in ten years from now.

However, "initiations" can occur on any level -- material, astral, mental, spiritual, etc...

Indeed.



~:Shin:~

[Dr Strange Stuff]

So, what I'm hearing is

Divination>Path>Initiation

That's the best course to take.

[Rin]

These two things interest me very much. Is there any chance you have any experience with either? Maybe a book or two on the subjects? I'm not sure if you have experience with the NAP Magic Mentor but this sounds a lot like that and if it is then I (might) have made an introduction already hah. Thanks for your response.

The akashic records aren't something I have a lot of experience with, the only non-theoretical exposure I've had to it was corresponding briefly with one practitioner who could access the records, and if I recall correctly she gained her ability to access them as a result of an spontaneous spiritual encounter which took place while practicing something unrelated

A lot of the really interesting abilities seem to manifest this way, I know another man who gained some truly amazing clairvoyant abilities - really next-level stuff - spontaneously after an encounter with a Hindu deity. So in these situations, it was the case that these people had dived in deep with certain systems of training, and after a certain point something beyond their control stepped in and took a hand in directing their development. As opposed to making a conscious effort to activate certain abilities.

The dream encounters I have experienced, both with incarnate teachers and discarnate entities of assorted varieties. The former took place while I was studying under some teachers who had developed the capacity (to project and then draw others into the astral), I believe through yogic training and the IIH system.

The latter started taking place spontaneously as I was drawn into the spiritual path (it was a dream experience which really kicked off my training), and seemed to increase in frequency as I ramped up my practice under aforementioned teachers, and then decrease as I ramped it down again while I dealt with some blockages (and also, I believe, as a result of parting ways with the teachers and disconnecting from the egregore they had built up around their student base).

From the research I've done since then, my theory is that opening myself up to these experiences and increasing their frequency was largely a result of performing practices which draw energy down through the central channel and activate the primary energy centers along it, since this would have had the effect of activating the higher energy centers (which have always been associated with psychic experience and spiritual encounters) and the central channel, one of the functions of which is, according to Daoist thought, to serve as a kind of "spiritual antenna" which draws down energy/information from the "heavenly realms" and into the consciousness.

If you're interested in such practices, probably the most mainstream source would be Regardie's work, in particular the LBRP ritual (which performs this function in a less intensive level with the Qabalistic Cross segment) and then later the Middle Pillar ritual, which serves to activate the energy centers more intently and open the central channel on a denser, more complete level. I can't guarantee they'll yield these results though, since I am just theorizing based on my experiences and research, but they are worthwhile nonetheless if you're looking for hermetic style practices to cleanse and activate the energy body (although the MP is an intense one, and I'd highly recommend not starting it until you've been doing the LBRP for 6 - 12 months and accompanying it with some other fundamental training).

[Shinichi]

So, what I'm hearing is

Divination>Path>Initiation

That's the best course to take.

Essentially. You may end up going through several systems before you find yourself, but that's fine too. I've spent time studying and training in more than a dozen traditions. Each one was a good learning opportunity that helped me grow and was important to my initiation process. So, don't stress over it too much. Accept each learning opportunity for the fortune that it is, and as you grow you will better understand your path.



~:Shin:~

[Dr Strange Stuff]

A lot of the really interesting abilities seem to manifest this way, I know another man who gained some truly amazing clairvoyant abilities - really next-level stuff - spontaneously after an encounter with a Hindu deity. So in these situations, it was the case that these people had dived in deep with certain systems of training, and after a certain point something beyond their control stepped in and took a hand in directing their development. As opposed to making a conscious effort to activate certain abilities.

So I need to strengthen my ability to contact these deities.

If you're interested in such practices, probably the most mainstream source would be Regardie's work, in particular the LBRP ritual (which performs this function in a less intensive level with the Qabalistic Cross segment) and then later the Middle Pillar ritual, which serves to activate the energy centers more intently and open the central channel on a denser, more complete level. I can't guarantee they'll yield these results though, since I am just theorizing based on my experiences and research, but they are worthwhile nonetheless if you're looking for hermetic style practices to cleanse and activate the energy body (although the MP is an intense one, and I'd highly recommend not starting it until you've been doing the LBRP for 6 - 12 months and accompanying it with some other fundamental training).

I have used the Middle Pillar ritual from the NAP, and I have used it with great success. I have even used it to calm me down and I get a feeling of being grounded, I normally do it before I do my Step 1 IIH daily thought exercises. It seems to help me keep a level head.
Are we talking about two different middle pillar rituals or is mine a watered down version of the one Crowley uses? During the last few invocations of mine I have been incorporating the MP as well and then "flowing the energy down my front, then up my back, then down my left, then up my right" then the fountain ritual as well. These feel... refreshing and helps me feel the energies in my body before the invocation.

[Rin]

So I need to strengthen my ability to contact these deities.

Possibly. In these specific cases, I don't believe either individual sought out the abilities they developed. And generally speaking, I don't think deities hand out abilities on demand. I mean it can't hurt to foster a connection with them if you feel genuinely called to do so, but I don't think it's a reliable method of generating specific abilities.

But if you look in, for example, Bardon's second book, he describes multiple spirits who can teach different skills and abilities when contacted, and in general, gaining knowledge from spirits is a cornerstone of the Western tradition of evocation, at least in theory. Of course, by the time you're working with evocation in Bardon's curriculum, you're expected to have mastered astral projection, and would likely have control of your dreams as well.

If you're interested in such practices, probably the most mainstream source would be Regardie's work, in particular the LBRP ritual (which performs this function in a less intensive level with the Qabalistic Cross segment) and then later the Middle Pillar ritual, which serves to activate the energy centers more intently and open the central channel on a denser, more complete level. I can't guarantee they'll yield these results though, since I am just theorizing based on my experiences and research, but they are worthwhile nonetheless if you're looking for hermetic style practices to cleanse and activate the energy body (although the MP is an intense one, and I'd highly recommend not starting it until you've been doing the LBRP for 6 - 12 months and accompanying it with some other fundamental training).

I have used the Middle Pillar ritual from the NAP, and I have used it with great success. I have even used it to calm me down and I get a feeling of being grounded, I normally do it before I do my Step 1 IIH daily thought exercises. It seems to help me keep a level head.
Are we talking about two different middle pillar rituals or is mine a watered down version of the one Crowley uses? During the last few invocations of mine I have been incorporating the MP as well and then "flowing the energy down my front, then up my back, then down my left, then up my right" then the fountain ritual as well. These feel... refreshing and helps me feel the energies in my body before the invocation.

I'm not sure which version is in NAP, this is the one I'm referring to:

http://www.davedavies.com/splanet/magic3.htm

And this warning in particular is what I had in mind:

It is my confirmed belief that several weeks at the very least of patient application to the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram should precede any effort to perform the Middle Pillar. For one thing, it will have trained the student in several little tricks of routine and magical technique quite apart from the intrinsic virtues of the exercise, which is to purify and cleanse the entire sphere of personality to the end that the higher self may manifest through a purified body and mind.

It will be realized how necessary analysis is as a preliminary rou tine to magic. The student should have arrived at a fair understand ing of himself, his motives, and the mechanism of his mind, and integrated himself more or less thoroughly so that no dissociation or serious neurosis exists within the psyche. For the presence of a powerful complex of associated ideas in the unconscious, or a marked dissociation splitting off one part of the psyche from the other, will have the effect of short-circuiting the flow of energy generated or released by the Middle Pillar. An explosion in the form of a complete nervous breakdown, or even of the destruction of mental stability, will be a likely result. Many instances have been known of unprepared students contracting fatal physical illnesses through attempting work of this nature, though this is more true where Eastern exercises have been unwisely attempted. Some of these unfortunates, when the dis sociation was rendered complete, have succumbed to chronic melancholia or taken their own lives. These warnings are not intended to be portentous or terrifying, but only to impress upon the student the solemnity of these undertakings, a journey of self-conquest than which nothing could compare in importance or seriousness.

The MP as described in that link is a powerful working, it's easily one of the most powerful of the publicly available energy practices I've attempted, in terms of the sheer amount of energy it moves and generates. At least, it was for me, your experience might be different.

The problem is that all that energy can have adverse effects on the system if you aren't used to it, straining the mind and the nervous system. It can also blow through energetic and emotional blockages far more forcefully than is healthy, causing any kind of subconscious or repressed psychological issues to rise to the surface, which can create intense mental stress or even physical illness, as Regardie describes in the quoted paragraphs. The level of risk this poses is dependent on the extent to which these blockages exist in your system (everyone has them to some degree, but it varies based on how healthy and balanced you are, and your life experiences).

On the flip side, it can be a causal factor in blockages - if energy isn't flowing smoothly through a certain part of the body and you try and direct it through that area, it can accumulate and stagnate, causing all sorts of problems.

Anyway, I'm not saying the MP is necessarily going to cause some horrible problem for you, but you have to be careful when practicing energy work of any kind, and twice as careful when using exercises like the MP which generate large amounts of energy indiscriminately. Traditionally speaking, something like the MP would be an intermediate practice which would come after months or years of working to establish a healthy body and a balanced mind, to develop a greater understanding of your inner self and to gradually acclimatize the nervous system to greater flows of energy. If you compare to Bardon, for example, you'll notice that he starts out with developing mental calm and balance across all levels of being in Step 1, then gently running energy through the body and specific organs to start to clear them out, revitalize them and acclimatize them to the increased energy flow in step 2, before moving on to actually accumulating the energy in Step 3, and he's explicit that each step is finished and completed before the next is begun, for precisely this reason. I'd say the MP is at least as intense as the Vital Force Accumulation method Bardon gives in Step 3 - probably moreso, since it specifically directs the flow of energy through the Central Channel and into several major energy centers.

Anyway, only you know your own experiences and health and mental state, but at the least, you absolutely want to proceed with caution with something like the MP, paying careful attention to the effect it has on your mind and body.

Personally speaking, I think It wouldn't be a horrible idea to hold off on practicing the MP until you've completed the first Step of IIH. You can replace it in the meantime with the LBRP, which has a similar but far less intensive effect, and is designed for beginning practitioners to help them prepare a healthy and balanced foundation. But it's your choice at the end of the day.

[Dr Strange Stuff]

http://www.davedavies.com/splanet/magic3.htm

Yes... I have been conducting this ritual exactly as it is in this guide except for the fact that instead of focusing on each center for 5 minutes each, I was focusing on the centers for about 30 seconds each. I wasn't aware of what everything meant and how they were to interact with each other, but the locations and names I have been focusing on and vibrating are exactly the same.

It is my confirmed belief that several weeks at the very least of patient application to the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram should precede any effort to perform the Middle Pillar. For one thing, it will have trained the student in several little tricks of routine and magical technique quite apart from the intrinsic virtues of the exercise, which is to purify and cleanse the entire sphere of personality to the end that the higher self may manifest through a purified body and mind.

It will be realized how necessary analysis is as a preliminary rou tine to magic. The student should have arrived at a fair understand ing of himself, his motives, and the mechanism of his mind, and integrated himself more or less thoroughly so that no dissociation or serious neurosis exists within the psyche. For the presence of a powerful complex of associated ideas in the unconscious, or a marked dissociation splitting off one part of the psyche from the other, will have the effect of short-circuiting the flow of energy generated or released by the Middle Pillar. An explosion in the form of a complete nervous breakdown, or even of the destruction of mental stability, will be a likely result. Many instances have been known of unprepared students contracting fatal physical illnesses through attempting work of this nature, though this is more true where Eastern exercises have been unwisely attempted. Some of these unfortunates, when the dissociation was rendered complete, have succumbed to chronic melancholia or taken their own lives. These warnings are not intended to be portentous or terrifying, but only to impress upon the student the solemnity of these undertakings, a journey of self-conquest than which nothing could compare in importance or seriousness.

This makes a lot of sense. I do have a background in Psychology, so these things (fair understanding of himself, his motives, and the mechanism of his mind, and integrated himself more or less thoroughly so that no dissociation or serious neurosis exists within the psyche. For the presence of a powerful complex of associated ideas in the unconscious, or a marked dissociation splitting off one part of the psyche from the other) have been in my frame of reference for at least 10 years with me strengthening them. I'm not trying to convince you of anything but I do want to make sure I'm not skipping steps or anything to that nature. I have performed this ritual at least 10 times and I have only had 1 negative experience. That was also in addition to the bornless one, circulation ritual, fountain ritual, and a lengthy invocation of Jupiter during the super moon. I will wait a while before attempting all of that again. After I juice up my energetic body [cool] .
I have been applying my will to my blockages from the mental/logical realm for a lot of my life and I am nowhere near complete with that but I feel comfortable with this ritual at this stage in my development. Maybe because I only spent 30 seconds on each center that allowed me to bring to the surface enough I could handle.

Personally speaking, I think It wouldn't be a horrible idea to hold off on practicing the MP until you've completed the first Step of IIH. You can replace it in the meantime with the LBRP, which has a similar but far less intensive effect, and is designed for beginning practitioners to help them prepare a healthy and balanced foundation. But it's your choice at the end of the day.

Thanks, after all I am on the forum for the personal views of other occultists. I do like the LBRP, when I complete it i feel like the air is more receptive to me and my energies... if that makes sense.
Thanks again for the great feedback and ideas.

[Rin]

Yes... I have been conducting this ritual exactly as it is in this guide except for the fact that instead of focusing on each center for 5 minutes each, I was focusing on the centers for about 30 seconds each. I wasn't aware of what everything meant and how they were to interact with each other, but the locations and names I have been focusing on and vibrating are exactly the same.

That's not a bad way of doing it. When I was working with the MP I also scaled back the time, because the full 25 minute version was just too much for my system. Particularly, the stimulation of the Yesod center was so powerful that it induced a pleasurable sensation that bordered on overwhelming, and the stimulation of the Malkuth center became quite painful because a problem with the alignment of my hips prevented the energy flowing down my legs properly, resulting in an intense burning & tingling sensation. Of course there's a bit of "do as I say, not as I did" here, because I only did the LBRP for a fortnight or so before commencing the MP, from memory. But, you know, live and learn.

If you stick to 30 seconds per center and keep an eye on the effects it has on your body, you should have a lot less to worry about than if you were doing the full 25 minute ritual. And of course you can slowly ramp it up as your system adapts to the energy flow.

This makes a lot of sense. I do have a background in Psychology, so these things (fair understanding of himself, his motives, and the mechanism of his mind, and integrated himself more or less thoroughly so that no dissociation or serious neurosis exists within the psyche. For the presence of a powerful complex of associated ideas in the unconscious, or a marked dissociation splitting off one part of the psyche from the other) have been in my frame of reference for at least 10 years with me strengthening them. I'm not trying to convince you of anything but I do want to make sure I'm not skipping steps or anything to that nature. I have performed this ritual at least 10 times and I have only had 1 negative experience. That was also in addition to the bornless one, circulation ritual, fountain ritual, and a lengthy invocation of Jupiter during the super moon. I will wait a while before attempting all of that again. After I juice up my energetic body [cool] .
I have been applying my will to my blockages from the mental/logical realm for a lot of my life and I am nowhere near complete with that but I feel comfortable with this ritual at this stage in my development. Maybe because I only spent 30 seconds on each center that allowed me to bring to the surface enough I could handle.

It sounds like you know where you're at and what you're doing then. I sometimes get a little intense with the warnings on this stuff, but only because I've experienced firsthand the negative effects of working with powerful practices without establishing a proper foundation, and it's not something I'd wish on my worst enemy :p

Thanks, after all I am on the forum for the personal views of other occultists. I do like the LBRP, when I complete it i feel like the air is more receptive to me and my energies... if that makes sense.
Thanks again for the great feedback and ideas.

It makes complete sense, and that's one of the things that should happen as a result of working the LBRP. It's really a rather extraordinary little ritual with a ton of applications and benefits.

Glad to help

[Dr Strange Stuff]

That's not a bad way of doing it. When I was working with the MP I also scaled back the time, because the full 25 minute version was just too much for my system. Particularly, the stimulation of the Yesod center was so powerful that it induced a pleasurable sensation that bordered on overwhelming, and the stimulation of the Malkuth center became quite painful because a problem with the alignment of my hips prevented the energy flowing down my legs properly, resulting in an intense burning & tingling sensation. Of course there's a bit of "do as I say, not as I did" here, because I only did the LBRP for a fortnight or so before commencing the MP, from memory. But, you know, live and learn.

I'm sorry this happened to you. It could have easily been me because the New Avatar Power book doesn't say anything about injuries messing with the energy flow. (I guess it makes sense, after I think about it)

If you stick to 30 seconds per center and keep an eye on the effects it has on your body, you should have a lot less to worry about than if you were doing the full 25 minute ritual. And of course you can slowly ramp it up as your system adapts to the energy flow.

I will be experimenting with this. I'm glad it makes logical sense, as such that the more you stimulate the energy center, the more energy is concentrated in it/therefore in your entire system. Small inscreases it is.

I sometimes get a little intense with the warnings on this stuff, but only because I've experienced firsthand the negative effects of working with powerful practices without establishing a proper foundation, and it's not something I'd wish on my worst enemy :p

I do appreciate the warnings, because without them I would have already tried to evoke a demon for money by now... and after further research, I know I am not ready for that haha. I remember when the LBRP, MP, evocation and invocation and godforms were "things I couldn't wait to mess with" hahaha

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Astral project while awake in the body.

Lucid dream while awake.

Access the akashic record on the fly while awake.

Subtlety is the key to realizing it's already happening 24/7.

If you're greedy for results and are seeking an explosive hit, treating the astral like a crack pipe, you're gonna miss everything.