Breaking the 4th wall

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Breaking the 4th wall

Post by Cerber »

Maybe the title not entirely correct, but just some random twist in storylines that blurs the lines a bit, at times.

There I was having a pretty serious conversation with this lovely lady, about serious stuff and whatnot. Then mid conversation, she goes silent for moment, as if thinking of something, or for a moment "detaching" her self from our immediate reality, while I'm left waiting for her response. But only for a second or two. Then suddenly she looks me straight in the eye, smiles, and says "Knock, Knock.."
And I'm standing there, completely bamboozled, like "What? That's completely out of context. Is it a knock knock joke?.."
But just before I could get any explanation from her, I heard very loud "Bang! Bang!", which knocks me right out my bed. My father was standing behind my locked doors, while I'm sleeping and I got no doorbell.
Anyone ever get "dream people" telling you when it's time to wake up?
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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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>"dream people" telling you when it's time to wake up?

I recall dreaming of being in a church, sitting in a pew. In the pew behind me a female figure was standing, putting me in a head lock, pulling me backwards, while saying to the other female present: It's no good. I can't wake him up.

So in the dream I thought: I suppose I should wake up. And I did. But there was no physical sign of why I should wake up

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

Post by Cerber »

oh, interesting. I find in dreams "waking up" (or being asleep for that matter) has double meaning. By "waking up" sometimes they don't mean in physical sense, sometimes they mean "waking up your awareness". Perhaps in your case, they were trying to "wake you up" in some other way, not the physical sense, "waking your mind up, without waking up the body", maybe?
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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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Some of my dreams are data transfer from parallel timelines. When I go back to that dream I see three timelines converging at a future point. This is probably a positive as by some accounts there is only one timeline for this 3D world. Presumably when several timelines converge there is a sharing of experience that enables an acceleration.

In that context the timeline on which the real Arthur exists is likely to converge with this 3D world early in 2032.

There have been early signs of that. The "court" of JFK was repeatedly called Camelot but he asked the wrong questions and was dealt with.

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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Amor wrote: Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:04 am In that context the timeline on which the real Arthur exists is likely to converge with this 3D world early in 2032.
Arthur who?
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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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King Arthur.

Oddly enough my grandson has been given the names Arthur Rex. In Latin that is Arthur the King - but he is not showing any signs.

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

Post by Cerber »

Oh that Arthur. Well I'm more of a Julius Caesar kind of guy :)
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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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I've had stuff like this happen.

I've also woken up from a dream because I was fed up with how the dream was going, and I was just kinda like "screw you guys, i'm going home", and woke up.

I've also had nightmares which I woke up from because it became apparent that I was "being messed with" and I woke myself up to go sort it out. Although more often i'd just "go lucid" in the dream in that circumstance, which is no less effective.

Was awoken by an entity in my room once, which kinda interrupted my dream to make itself known and interact with me.

It's possible your father knocked more softly first, you heard it in your dream? and then he knocked harder when he didn't get a response?
I'm not AT ALL saying that is the case, just exploring that possibility. It is absolutely possible for a dream to be precognitive like you describe. I just like to apply a harsh standard of proof to make sure I only count the real examples ;-)

I am always fascinated by the sheer range of possible interesting things which occur in dreams. I once had a dream which was entirely in german, and I don't even speak german. (as a result I can't vouch for it being accurate german, but it "seemed" legit). Oddest of all was that I was speaking and thinking in german in the dream. And it all made sense in the dream, but the words became unintelligible once i woke up, because my waking mind doesn't speak german, although I recall all of the conceptual content of what was said. It was a very long and coherent dream, set in a time period where glass windows made of small panes set in a lead lattice would be attainable by the modestly wealthy in eastern germany. And where fashion would dictate that wearing riding boots under your long dress was seen as somewhat inappropriate, but admittedly rather practical with all the mud, since cobblestones didn't cover all that much walking area in a small-ish town. BTW, those long dresses I think attracted mud like a white shirt attracts spaghetti, or a carpet attracts the buttered side of toast.

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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Kath wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:00 pm It's possible your father knocked more softly first, you heard it in your dream? and then he knocked harder when he didn't get a response?
I'm not AT ALL saying that is the case, just exploring that possibility. It is absolutely possible for a dream to be precognitive like you describe. I just like to apply a harsh standard of proof to make sure I only count the real examples ;-)
That was one of the first things I thought to my self too. But there should have been some record of that first knock too in my short term memory, at least usually right after waking up I can at least vaguely recall past few seconds, if anything happened. But was just that gentle lady voice whispering "knock knock", and a moment after a loud Bang Bang!. Still, your theory is very likely. A human mind of a complicated machine, that always find new ways to surprise us :)
I am always fascinated by the sheer range of possible interesting things which occur in dreams. I once had a dream which was entirely in german, and I don't even speak german. (as a result I can't vouch for it being accurate german, but it "seemed" legit). Oddest of all was that I was speaking and thinking in german in the dream. And it all made sense in the dream, but the words became unintelligible once i woke up, because my waking mind doesn't speak german, although I recall all of the conceptual content of what was said. It was a very long and coherent dream, set in a time period where glass windows made of small panes set in a lead lattice would be attainable by the modestly wealthy in eastern germany. And where fashion would dictate that wearing riding boots under your long dress was seen as somewhat inappropriate, but admittedly rather practical with all the mud, since cobblestones didn't cover all that much walking area in a small-ish town. BTW, those long dresses I think attracted mud like a white shirt attracts spaghetti, or a carpet attracts the buttered side of toast.
I once was woken up by my sister, and I start talking to her in Russian (not our native language, although I know few words), and I realized there was something wrong with the sounds I made only after she start to laugh at me. But couldn't remember what was I dreaming about. Every now and then I do dream in different languages, sometimes even having conversation with one person in multiple languages, switching from one to another every few words. Thankfully it's usually only in those 3 languages I know.
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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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Cerber wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:36 pm knock knock
One time, when I was around high school age, I had moved a high-back chair in my bedroom, because I was rearranging things. So the high-back chair was near my bed. While that chair was in an odd place, later I changed the sheets on my bed (or perhaps planned to) anyway, either the old or new sheets, I had tossed onto the high-back chair.

That night, I had a nightmare where I was being chased by a comically stylized ghost. You know, the old white sheet style depiction. It wasn't a particularly terrifying nightmare, but I couldn't seem to escape the "ghost". Eventually I woke up from the nightmare. And just as I was thinking to myself that running away from a white sheet was pretty silly... out of the corner of my eye in the dim light, I noticed that there was a white sheet figure looming right at my bedside!

I jumped out of bed, and ran out the door. Or at least that was what I tried to do. My bedroom door opened inward, so instead I ran into the door while slamming it open into myself. I fell back on my butt. And before I could get up, I realized I had left a white sheet on a high back chair next to my bed earlier before bedtime. I had to laugh at myself.

My theory is that I must have briefly opened my eyes during my sleep, and as a result, the visual of a white sheet looming close to me invaded my dream content. With a kinda comical result when I woke up and saw the object of my nightmare poorly in the dark.


That said, I've had dreams which were very blatantly precognitive and/or prescient, often in highly explicit ways which don't fall into the category of being able to be explained as "good guesses". So the idea that you dreamed of your father knocking before he did, without any earlier softer knock, as a precognitive perception of events, strikes me as very definitely possible.

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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Kath wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:01 pm
Cerber wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:36 pm knock knock
One time, when I was around high school age, I had moved a high-back chair in my bedroom, because I was rearranging things. So the high-back chair was near my bed. While that chair was in an odd place, later I changed the sheets on my bed (or perhaps planned to) anyway, either the old or new sheets, I had tossed onto the high-back chair.

That night, I had a nightmare where I was being chased by a comically stylized ghost. You know, the old white sheet style depiction. It wasn't a particularly terrifying nightmare, but I couldn't seem to escape the "ghost". Eventually I woke up from the nightmare. And just as I was thinking to myself that running away from a white sheet was pretty silly... out of the corner of my eye in the dim light, I noticed that there was a white sheet figure looming right at my bedside!

I jumped out of bed, and ran out the door. Or at least that was what I tried to do. My bedroom door opened inward, so instead I ran into the door while slamming it open into myself. I fell back on my butt. And before I could get up, I realized I had left a white sheet on a high back chair next to my bed earlier before bedtime. I had to laugh at myself.

My theory is that I must have briefly opened my eyes during my sleep, and as a result, the visual of a white sheet looming close to me invaded my dream content. With a kinda comical result when I woke up and saw the object of my nightmare poorly in the dark.


That said, I've had dreams which were very blatantly precognitive and/or prescient, often in highly explicit ways which don't fall into the category of being able to be explained as "good guesses". So the idea that you dreamed of your father knocking before he did, without any earlier softer knock, as a precognitive perception of events, strikes me as very definitely possible.
I agree, anything is possible :D
I mean, over the years I learned to be contented, comfortable with all those "half-truths", "conflicting truths", with all the possibilities, and never really "knowing anything for sure". Either is possible, but neither of those I can prove. Our minds can be deceiving, can never really trust them :) can never really trust the perceived reality either. I feel much distrust within and without every single moment of my waking and dreaming life.. :)
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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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The essence of truth is that the statement is true to some reference. If we know what is the reference then we can construct experiments to measure the trueness of the statement.

Experiments are a major source of learning for the magician.

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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Amor wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:19 am The essence of truth is that the statement is true to some reference. If we know what is the reference then we can construct experiments to measure the trueness of the statement.

Experiments are a major source of learning for the magician.
Well yes, in theory, but in practice I don't know any instance where there would be any any kind of experiment which would prove anything metaphysical beyond any shadow of doubt. So we are all doing our experiments, but those mostly just for our selves, those mostly prove or disprove something (or imply existence or non-existence of some strong correlation) only to the individual performing the experiment. Yet the results every time have no impact outside of that personal space of said individual.
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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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>I don't know any instance where there would be any any kind of experiment which would prove anything metaphysical beyond any shadow of doubt.

As people develop inner senses it is useful to have observers for experiments. Thus when the process and results of an experiment have been generally agreed, that result can be used to generate hypotheses for following experiments.

While there is never absolute truth (since all realities exist within specific energy beings) it is possible to develop functional understandings and use them fairly reliably (until the encompassing entity changes direction)

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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Amor wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:25 am >I don't know any instance where there would be any any kind of experiment which would prove anything metaphysical beyond any shadow of doubt.

As people develop inner senses it is useful to have observers for experiments. Thus when the process and results of an experiment have been generally agreed, that result can be used to generate hypotheses for following experiments.

While there is never absolute truth (since all realities exist within specific energy beings) it is possible to develop functional understandings and use them fairly reliably (until the encompassing entity changes direction)
Well yes, but that still only works only for our selves, of if we work with people who already "believers". But I meant, there isn't any experiment (to the best of my knowledge), that would prove anything metaphysically related to someone who is not "metaphysically-minded". And even if, let's say, we both are "metaphysically-minded" but are on a different paths, with different views on some or many things, and one of us claims A, but the other one convinced of B, which is maybe very different, or complete opposite of A, virtually there would be no way to prove even experimentally which is more right. You can convince somebody of certain metaphysical "truth", but you can never prove it. "Proof" must be easily reproducible by anyone, as long as the same exact steps are followed by anyone indiscriminate of their experience, qualifications etc, the results of experiments must always be the same without any margins for personal interpretations, feelings, wishes etc, and every single time. In metaphysics, nothing ever exactly the same for anyone single individual, let alone two or more.
So we do experiments mostly for our selves. I personally wouldn't even use word "proof" when looking at the results of any of my experiments. At best can just say "Yeah, I did A with some B few times, and did A with some C few times and it seems that A with B have certain tendencies, while with C slightly different tendencies, it seems.."
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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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>"Proof" must be easily reproducible by anyone, as long as the same exact steps are followed by anyone

Years ago I worked as an electrical mechanic - unqualified. I was putting in pyrotenax - a copper tube with magnesium oxide powder and internal conductors. It is reasonably fireproof and I was using it for fire alarms.

The pyrotenax bends somewhat but easily becomes work-hardened so that the stripping tool does not work properly and I would have to tear off tiny pieces of copper when putting a fitting on the end of the cable. Unfortunately the weather was damp and by the time I had made the fitting the powder was damp and the fitting was shorting out. So start again.

I found after a few months that if I altered my consciousness that the work-hardened copper would behave properly and come off in nice spirals, so the fitting would be put on before the powder got damp.

I found that same with brass that I was working with. I would get the thought: it is going to break. If I ignored the thought, it would break, but if I focussed my consciousness it would not.

Thus it seemed to me that some metals had got used to me and would moderately change properties when I applied my intent.

I spoke to a blacksmith friend and he said it took 14 years before the metals would behave properly for him.

This skill is critical in forms of alchemy.

What then for your proposition that anyone should be able to do any experiment?

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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I haven't read the whole thread yet, so I hope to write more here in a few days (if there's time).
Amor wrote: Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:12 pm I recall dreaming of being in a church, sitting in a pew. In the pew behind me a female figure was standing, putting me in a head lock, pulling me backwards, while saying to the other female present: It's no good. I can't wake him up.

So in the dream I thought: I suppose I should wake up. And I did. But there was no physical sign of why I should wake up
This woman seems to be quite brutal in her trying to wake you up. [eek] I don't know who or what she represents, but concerning your belief (the church) I am sure, she won't reach her goal by doing it in such an aggressive way, right?

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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I have seen on occasion a person's death entity, putting the person into a head lock to pull them out of the body. In the cases I have seen the person was dead within a week.

In the case of my dream, I suspect that the head lock imagery is the nearest that my mind could match with the circumstance. In that case the imagery was inverted. She was trying to put me back in my body.

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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How did you know it was meant inverted? Did you feel it or know it in the dream? It seems whatever she is doing there, it's not working the way she wants. How did you feel while she was pulling you backwards?

If this would be my dream (these ideas might have nothing to do with you and your dream at all), I would understand it the way you told about what happened to the people who died. Maybe I wouldn't have understood it as 'killing', but nevertheless she is trying to force the dreamer out of (or aggressively wake him up from) his belief (=church). So yes, you could say she wants to kill the belief. The two women could represent a situation or maybe even real people who told the dreamer: "Wake up to reality! Wake up from your (naive) beliefs!"

Our beliefs are nobody else's business. Nobody has the right to tell you to stop believing into something. Yet people do this very often, because they think they know better. And there can be situations, bad situations which might be too big and too hard for us to cope with them. They can question our beliefs, they can hurt us in our beliefs and even give us the feeling, that they kill our beliefs. There even can be an aggressive aspect within our own belief (mostly when our belief is influenced through doctrines and paths of other 'wise' people or groups), which attacks another beloved aspect of our belief.

In my opinion it is important to change our belief due to our experiences. Sometimes it can be very hard to realize that our belief is completely opposed to what happens to us. This can be quite painful. Yet I think most of the time it is not necessary to 'kill' our belief, to cast it completely off. Sometimes you just can look at everything from another point of view and realize, that there is needed only small adaption.

However I've experienced times where I had to find out that I believed in something (or even someone), which was totally different to what I thought it would be like. It hurted, but in the end I was glad to realize it. It took some time to change and to find a clearer view on these things, but it's worth the effort!

... well, as I said, this might have nothing to do with your dream. Would you like to tell me, how you understand your dream?

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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Cerber, besides what was already said about your dream, there could be another meaning. Maybe your dream was about to tell you something within this intense conversation, then, while still asleep, there was a first knock of your father. The dream knew you would wake up very soon, so it told you it's message in the shortest way it could: a smile and knock knock. Couldn't this mean, that something or someone is about to appear in your concious life very soon? Maybe something connected to this lady in your dream or to your conversation with her?

... just a thought ... ;)

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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>how you understand your dream

I just took it as an out-of-body experience. In the dream I thought that someone was trying to wake me up so I did wake up to see if there was something to deal with. And when I woke up all seemed as usual.

When I go back into the scene now, the female trying to wake me up says that it was about waking me into higher consciousness.

That would make sense in that I was experiencing being in a spiritual place (chapel).

As usual the mind pictures are limited by the imagery available to the mind. This we call symbolic, but perhaps more accurately it is is fuzzy matching

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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ah, okay. ... thank you. :)

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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Amor wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:23 pm >"Proof" must be easily reproducible by anyone, as long as the same exact steps are followed by anyone

Years ago I worked as an electrical mechanic - unqualified. I was putting in pyrotenax - a copper tube with magnesium oxide powder and internal conductors. It is reasonably fireproof and I was using it for fire alarms.

The pyrotenax bends somewhat but easily becomes work-hardened so that the stripping tool does not work properly and I would have to tear off tiny pieces of copper when putting a fitting on the end of the cable. Unfortunately the weather was damp and by the time I had made the fitting the powder was damp and the fitting was shorting out. So start again.

I found after a few months that if I altered my consciousness that the work-hardened copper would behave properly and come off in nice spirals, so the fitting would be put on before the powder got damp.

I found that same with brass that I was working with. I would get the thought: it is going to break. If I ignored the thought, it would break, but if I focussed my consciousness it would not.

Thus it seemed to me that some metals had got used to me and would moderately change properties when I applied my intent.

I spoke to a blacksmith friend and he said it took 14 years before the metals would behave properly for him.

This skill is critical in forms of alchemy.

What then for your proposition that anyone should be able to do any experiment?
that's a good point.
I wanted to say something similar, but had no idea where to begin to formulate the thought in words.
glad you answered it!

still one must allow for the likelihood that 'some' other people could have or learn the inutterable skill of a thing, so there should be 'some' capacity for reproducibility.

haha "capacity for reproducibility" I'm just going to blanket-apologize for the big words I seem to be using today. I'm very tired, and that really cripples the self-censoring I usually use to try to be more concise and plain spoken. I don't think in words, so when I'm tired the verbal part of my brain (really the weak link in my brain) just frantically grabs whatever words it can think of to fit the ideas, and sometimes it's just a hippopotomostrosequipedaliophobic's worst nightmare (or an incomprehensible word salad), without meaning to be that way.

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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Amor wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:08 pm I have seen on occasion a person's death entity, putting the person into a head lock to pull them out of the body. In the cases I have seen the person was dead within a week.

In the case of my dream, I suspect that the head lock imagery is the nearest that my mind could match with the circumstance. In that case the imagery was inverted. She was trying to put me back in my body.
I had an entity knock me out of my body once.
This was apparently a required precursor to doing physical harm to my body (my hypothesis anyway)
I didn't have a good time.

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Re: Breaking the 4th wall

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Kath wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:28 pm still one must allow for the likelihood that 'some' other people could have or learn the inutterable skill of a thing, so there should be 'some' capacity for reproducibility.
The tradition was that you hung around with a skilled practitioner until you got the hang of it. (Apprenticeship) The learning was by several chakra intelligences in parallel.

As for metaphysical experiment, it seems that humans with close connections (e.g. a meditation group) on occasion form a shared lightbody that can be used for simultaneous observation of inner experiments. In practice the various participants see the events from slightly different perspectives and through different filters. With a trained group this provides a much richer data stream than that experienced by the experimenter. The experimenter is too involved in making things happen to observe from outside the vortex.

Once, long ago, I was on a small island in the community's house for the solstice. I was alone and very introverted. Some ex-members, with no approval, decided that they were going to come and stay in the house and rang to tell me.

I thought that inappropriate and using geometry built a modest deva standing on the jetty facing the mainland. The deva was instructed to stop them. I told no one. A few hours later the ex-members rang the community saying that I was preventing them from coming on to the island. There is a public ferry and plenty of tourist accommodation on the island.

About midnight the deva that overlights the island complained that other people were having trouble getting on to the island so I took down my little deva.

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