Limits of accumulating energy?
Limits of accumulating energy?
Hi everyone,
So I'm working on a method to accumulate as much energy as I can (a kind of an "aetheric" energy, chi, life force, etc).
I'm still experimenting with the whole thing, but I'm curious what do you think about these questions:
- What are the limits of absorbing energy?
- What are the advantages and disadvantages of accumulating too much energy?
- Can you recommend me books about this topic?
So I'm working on a method to accumulate as much energy as I can (a kind of an "aetheric" energy, chi, life force, etc).
I'm still experimenting with the whole thing, but I'm curious what do you think about these questions:
- What are the limits of absorbing energy?
- What are the advantages and disadvantages of accumulating too much energy?
- Can you recommend me books about this topic?
"Nothing is true. Everything is permitted."
Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
I'm going to fall back on the handy weightlifting analogy here: there are two limits as I see it, your "base" limit, or how much energy is circulating your system as you go about your day to day business. This is comparable to the size of a weightlifters muscles - they increase through lifting weights (energy work) but remain large even when at rest, and their larger size allows for greater lifting (accumulating) in the future.- What are the limits of absorbing energy?
The second is your "total" limit, that is, how much energy your energetic anatomy - your nervous system, meridians and aura etc., can hold at once if you accumulate as much as you can handle. The weightlifting equivalent would be how much weight the individual can lift at one time.
Obviously there's going to be some correlation between the two, but it isn't as strong as you'd think, and this is where the weightlifting analogy falls apart. There are systems which work like batteries, slowly accumulating energy through extended hours of daily practice and condensing it in an energy center (usually the navel, or the lower dantien below it). The process of "recharging" takes a long time, but the amount of energy means that the practitioner can then discharge it at will for whatever purpose. You see this in a lot of Chinese systems of internal alchemy, where the release of energy needs to be instant during martial situations. So you're looking at a high base limit, but a relatively low total limit (although obviously it has to be high enough that they can expend enough energy to achieve their goals, whether it's an enhanced blow or performing healing, but many systems only increase the limit along specific pathways depending on their goals, although eventually there's going to be a bit of spillover across the whole system I would think).
By contrast, there are systems (Bardon's IIH being the most famous) which focus on working through the total limit - through repeating (relatively) short daily sessions of practice, increasing the amount of energy that can be accumulated at one time, storing it in the whole of the body (or sometimes different sections, organs or centers) for short periods of time before discharging it instead of using one specific center as a long term battery (although running so much vital energy through the body on a regular basis is going to naturally result in an increase in the capacity and storage level of not just the navel/dantien area, but the entire energetic anatomy, granting increased vitality etc.) So there's a bit of crossover, but you can think of it as roughly turning your dantien/navel center into a battery which charges slowly then discharges quickly, or turning your entire energetic anatomy into a kind of balloon which pumps up quickly then pumps back out quickly.
Of course a lot of systems of training combine both practices to some degree, and by nature increasing one will increase the other, it's just not a direct correlation. And there are ways of working energy without passing it through the body at all (thereby avoiding mixing your own energy with that of a sick person, in the case of healing, or an enemy, in the case of fighting), but they tend to be fairly advanced techniques that require a high level of mental and spiritual development.
By definition, if you've accumulated "too much" then you've exceeded any advantages. Generally speaking, it's not a good idea to go around buzzing like broken electric wire on vital energy - it's taxing on every level of your being and can cause damage. You want to work like a weightlifter - slightly exceed your limit for a short period of time to allow your system to grow and adapt to the increased energy load, then release it back to baseline and allow your system to adjust.- What are the advantages and disadvantages of accumulating too much energy?
IIH goes without saying, Bruce's N.E.W. is also a great read and incredibly helpful for anyone working with any system of energy work. Jerry Alan Johnson's works come highly recommended (although they're very much textbooks, dense and academic), although I can't speak for them personally.- Can you recommend me books about this topic?
"The path of the Sage is called
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"
- DDJ, Verse 27
"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"
- DDJ, Verse 27
"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett
Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
Energy needs to flow.
If you have nothing to spend it on its harder to accumulate.
If you have nothing to spend it on its harder to accumulate.
------------
The Only Constant is Change
--------------
1. What is a Magician
2. The Human Experience
3. The Jail, The House, and The Temple
--------------
Magari vs Illuminati Conspiracy Theories
The Only Constant is Change
--------------
1. What is a Magician
2. The Human Experience
3. The Jail, The House, and The Temple
--------------
Magari vs Illuminati Conspiracy Theories
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Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
In traditional Taoist alchemy, it is believed that unused chi stagnates and creates illness. For example sexual chi in men. The energy is released less often later in life, so men develop issues with the prostate. From a Chinese energy tradition too much (more than you need) is a bad thing. As someone else said above, movement of energy is key.
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Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
Michael Tse - Qigong.Haqim wrote: - Can you recommend me books about this topic?
Beginners Book List
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... =2&t=39045
Information Resources
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 57&t=36162
Fundamental Development
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 57&t=37025
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... =2&t=39045
Information Resources
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 57&t=36162
Fundamental Development
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 57&t=37025
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Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
Do you have any titles or isbn numbers, because googeling for bruce new comes up with way to much stuff.Rin wrote: Bruce's N.E.W.
Beginners Book List
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... =2&t=39045
Information Resources
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 57&t=36162
Fundamental Development
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 57&t=37025
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... =2&t=39045
Information Resources
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 57&t=36162
Fundamental Development
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 57&t=37025
Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
Thank you, everyone!
Rin, thanks for the long post!
I already have the Bardon book, and I'll definitely read it!
magari and witchpriest: Yeah, I've studied Taoism for years, so I know what you're talking about.
Maybe you're right and flowing is the key, not the stagnating, unused energy.
Thank you for the book recommendation, Desecrated!
***
Meanwhile, I got a new question: What if using the information model is actually better than using the energy (or the spiritual) one?
After all, everything we perceive is information - even energy (which is basically moving information).
Have you ever worked with the mixture of these two models?
Rin, thanks for the long post!
I already have the Bardon book, and I'll definitely read it!
magari and witchpriest: Yeah, I've studied Taoism for years, so I know what you're talking about.
Maybe you're right and flowing is the key, not the stagnating, unused energy.
Thank you for the book recommendation, Desecrated!
***
Meanwhile, I got a new question: What if using the information model is actually better than using the energy (or the spiritual) one?
After all, everything we perceive is information - even energy (which is basically moving information).
Have you ever worked with the mixture of these two models?
"Nothing is true. Everything is permitted."
Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
Whatever works for you.
------------
The Only Constant is Change
--------------
1. What is a Magician
2. The Human Experience
3. The Jail, The House, and The Temple
--------------
Magari vs Illuminati Conspiracy Theories
The Only Constant is Change
--------------
1. What is a Magician
2. The Human Experience
3. The Jail, The House, and The Temple
--------------
Magari vs Illuminati Conspiracy Theories
Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
I'll update this topic if I have news.magari wrote:Whatever works for you.
"Nothing is true. Everything is permitted."
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Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
No, never heard of it, but it sounds interesting.Haqim wrote: Meanwhile, I got a new question: What if using the information model is actually better than using the energy (or the spiritual) one?
After all, everything we perceive is information - even energy (which is basically moving information).
Have you ever worked with the mixture of these two models?
Beginners Book List
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... =2&t=39045
Information Resources
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 57&t=36162
Fundamental Development
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 57&t=37025
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... =2&t=39045
Information Resources
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 57&t=36162
Fundamental Development
http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 57&t=37025
Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
Typing in Robert Bruce, New Energy Ways in Google should get you the result, it's public domain - there's a kindle version, but imo it's not as good as the original.Desecrated wrote:Do you have any titles or isbn numbers, because googeling for bruce new comes up with way to much stuff.Rin wrote: Bruce's N.E.W.
True, but there's more than one way to use energy. You can prevent sexual energy from stagnating by expending it, but you can also utilize it in internal alchemy if you have the proper instruction, using the abundant and powerful generative force to fuel your spiritual and energetic work - kundalini yoga is a good example, where it is frequently the buildup of generative energy which is the trigger for breaking the kundalini free upwards from the sacrum. There are also many systems of Taoist internal alchemy which work off the basis of transmuting generative energy (jing) into vital energy (chi). Even if your system doesn't intentionally utilize this process, cutting back on your expenditure of sexual energy can have a lot of benefits - but of course as you say, it can also cause stagnation. Like most things in Taoism and TCM, it comes down to balance and to the individual's situation.witchpriest wrote:In traditional Taoist alchemy, it is believed that unused chi stagnates and creates illness. For example sexual chi in men. The energy is released less often later in life, so men develop issues with the prostate. From a Chinese energy tradition too much (more than you need) is a bad thing. As someone else said above, movement of energy is key.
Possibly TMI, but I've found that, when single, once or twice a month is a good balance. More than that (especially the 5+ times a week most men orgasm) and I lose a certain level of vitality and health, less than that and it builds up to uncomfortable levels which become both a distraction in my spiritual practice and in my daily life via. enhanced libido. More frequently doesn't seem as bad when in a relationship (although if your practices rely on sexual alchemy specifically, you'd wanna check with your teacher), as actual sexual intercourse seems to carry an exchange of energies (especially when there's a close emotional bond, or some kind of emotional context or interpersonal connection, aka. not a one night stand), not just an expenditure like the regular pornography watching which is common in most 21st century men.
"The path of the Sage is called
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"
- DDJ, Verse 27
"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"
- DDJ, Verse 27
"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett
Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
Indeed, it is.Desecrated wrote:No, never heard of it, but it sounds interesting.Haqim wrote: Meanwhile, I got a new question: What if using the information model is actually better than using the energy (or the spiritual) one?
After all, everything we perceive is information - even energy (which is basically moving information).
Have you ever worked with the mixture of these two models?
If our physical part is the hardware (even if we think that the prime substance is spiritual, energetic, or even pure information), then the mind or consciousness is the software.
Then you need information and also energy, at the same time, because information is moving, ergo it has some kind of a substratum, a carrier.
Interesting.Rin wrote:True, but there's more than one way to use energy. You can prevent sexual energy from stagnating by expending it, but you can also utilize it in internal alchemy if you have the proper instruction, using the abundant and powerful generative force to fuel your spiritual and energetic work - kundalini yoga is a good example, where it is frequently the buildup of generative energy which is the trigger for breaking the kundalini free upwards from the sacrum. There are also many systems of Taoist internal alchemy which work off the basis of transmuting generative energy (jing) into vital energy (chi). Even if your system doesn't intentionally utilize this process, cutting back on your expenditure of sexual energy can have a lot of benefits - but of course as you say, it can also cause stagnation. Like most things in Taoism and TCM, it comes down to balance and to the individual's situation.
Maybe I should take care of this:
.transmuting generative energy (jing) into vital energy (chi)
Generating energy is one thing - using or transmuting it is another.
I've created a technique that allows me to take in a lot of life force (absorbed and converted from pure aetheric energy) and transmute it at the same time.
I'm going to experiment with it, to see what happens.
I sense a lot of heat, by the way, and sometimes it's hard to fall in to sleep.
Sometimes I decide to stop the experiments, because it makes me feel... well... like a "zombie".
I fear that it causes distraction from percepts.
Because, you see, it makes you think that life force "attracts" things in / to your life.
But it's a reversed model of magical perception.
KIA is will and perception, at the same time - if you focus only on a perceived life force accumulation, it can harm your will... I think.
"Nothing is true. Everything is permitted."
Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
I'm not sure what you mean by pure aetheric energy?
It sounds like an Elemental imbalance.
It sounds like an Elemental imbalance.
When my wings get tired I grab my broom.
Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
Aether.RoseRed wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by pure aetheric energy?
Chaos stuff, between the physical and psychical plane and KIA / Chaos / life force.
But let's just call it life force, in this case.
I'm not sure what you mean by Elemental imbalance?RoseRed wrote:It sounds like an Elemental imbalance.
"Nothing is true. Everything is permitted."
Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
Now I get what you're talking about. Thanx for the explanation.
Earth, air, fire, water - elements. Sometimes, one is stronger or one is weaker and then they're not in balance.
Earth, air, fire, water - elements. Sometimes, one is stronger or one is weaker and then they're not in balance.
When my wings get tired I grab my broom.
Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
Absorbing energy, in the sense of simply sucking it in and putting it somewhere and not letting it go is going to cause bad internal tension and blockages.Haqim wrote:- What are the limits of absorbing energy?
Accumulation exercises need to work more towards "stretching" your energy body, where you pull in a lot of energy to create tension and "exercise" your energy body, then release the accumulated energy. Doing this every day over time improves the Quantity that you can hold with each accumulation and also improves the Quality of your own internal energies. Rin's Weight Lifting thing is good for helping you understand this. You don't benchpress your body weight and then hold it up for the rest of the day. You lift, lower, lift, lower, and then rest until the next session.
Cultivation exercises, like those popular in Asian arts, work a bit differently. Instead of pulling in a lot of energy all over your body, you exercise your internal battery so that it grows stronger and holds more energy. I do this simply by breathing from the Dantian without accumulating anything at all, which is a rather powerful method that doesn't seem to be commonly talked about.
There are no advantages to accumulating too much energy. At best, you will get sick and not be able to concentrate for a few days while your body purges your screw up and rebalances itself, if it can at all. At worst, you may fry your nervous system and never be able to practice any sort of metaphysical exercise again. Ever.Haqim wrote:- What are the advantages and disadvantages of accumulating too much energy?
Accumulation should be a metaphysical stretching exercise. If you go a little at a time over a long period of time, you get really strong and elastic and you end up able to do amazing things. If you go too far too fast trying to push yourself, you'll break.
However, if cultivation is done right, there really aren't any limits. If you practice every day, watch your diet and how your lifestyle affects your life force, then every day your soul will get a little bit brighter and stronger. Day after day, year after year, you'll both charge your internal batteries and improve the elasticity of your energy body so that you can temporarily accumulate larger and larger quantities.
The Science of Breath is a good start. Learning how to actually breath and strengthening your life force enough to actually work with it is a prerequisite to more advanced methods, but also, detoxing your energy body is a good foundation to charging your internal battery.Haqim wrote:- Can you recommend me books about this topic?
Initiation Into Hermetics by Bardon has the best described Accumulation exercise that I can possibly recommend.
Embryonic Breathing by Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming is a good introduction to the nature of Dantian Meditation, though it's not the method that I personally use for internal cultivation.
What I do can be called a either a mixture of all of those "models" or something that transcends them all one. Reality, at the end of the day, really doesn't like fitting neatly into all of those nice little labeled categories.Haqim wrote:Meanwhile, I got a new question: What if using the information model is actually better than using the energy (or the spiritual) one?
After all, everything we perceive is information - even energy (which is basically moving information).
Have you ever worked with the mixture of these two models?
As an example of using the Information, Energy and Spiritual model simultaneously: when I touch a plant, I can do three things. I can, via what is commonly called Psychometry read the information of the plant - its history, its Metaphysical Qualities ("Occult Virtues"), who else and what else has touched it, what plant produced the seed that grew into this plant, what plants have grown from the seeds of this plant, and a potentially great deal more depending on various factors. I can, via Clairsentience, read the energy patterns and essence of the plant, in order to determine the "flavor" of this individual plants Life Force and whether it is healthy or sick among other things. This Energy bit also includes determining the dominant Element in the plant, what Planetary and Zodiacal energy is dominant in the plant, and other things depending on paradigm and the energies you are initiated into. And lastly, I can communicate with the spirit of the individual plant, any spirits living in the plant (not all that uncommon with large trees and the like), and the spirit that governs the species of the plant - each spirit being an intelligent being with its own personality, knowledge, and appearance unique to itself.
The whole "model" division of occultism, then, is completely and entirely irrelevant to my own practices. Doing just one of those things when I can do all three and learn so much more would be silly.
I'm not extensively familiar with contemporary opinions on KIA, but I have worked extensively with Life Force and the idea that accumulating it can harm your volition is ridiculous to me (unless, and only unless, you do it very very wrong). Life Force is the blood of the soul and is tied to both mind and body, and if you strengthen your Life Force then you will strengthen your volition, and every other part of your mind, along with your body and many other little bits I don't have common labels for.Haqim wrote:KIA is will and perception, at the same time - if you focus only on a perceived life force accumulation, it can harm your will... I think.
Aether, Khaos and Life Force are three completely different forces, though...Haqim wrote:Aether.RoseRed wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by pure aetheric energy?
Chaos stuff, between the physical and psychical plane and KIA / Chaos / life force.
But let's just call it life force, in this case.
~:Shin:~
Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
IMO it's completely irrelevant in general. None of the models in that selection exclude the others, and imo they all necessitate eachother to some degree. Information has to be stored or composed somehow - likewise, a spirit has to be composed of something. I'm not sure where those models came from, but they're not a very good division of anything, imo.The whole "model" division of occultism, then, is completely and entirely irrelevant to my own practices. Doing just one of those things when I can do all three and learn so much more would be silly.
Anyone looking for ways to understand the composition of the universe and the mechanics of magic would be best to start by brushing up on the modern sciences - especially physics, math and biology. You don't need to go crazy (although exploring them further if they grasp you can't hurt, more knowledge is always good), just a basic high school level understanding will do. From there I'd say The Kybalion is probably the best point to jump off from with the spiritual metaphysics - it's a short, condensed work which gives you a spiritual metaphysics 101, the concept of the spiritual dimension, planes, energies, vibration, duality, etc. The only subject it doesn't touch on much is the spiritual anatomy, for that I'd recommend the Robert Bruce book I mentioned earlier if you want a shorter, more modern take, or Steiner or Powell's works for an older and more extensive (although dated in many places) overview - although neither really grasps the core of the subject, in my personal opinion, but they're good jumping points, Bruce especially for practical work. From there read the older philosophies depending on which ones call to you most - Buddhist, Hermetic/Hellenistic, Daoist, Hindu, etc. to grasp a certain mapping of the wider cosmology. If you feel drawn to more than one, then read more - each is just an attempt to map a terrain which can only be truly understood through personal experience. There are also interesting modern takes on the subject of broader metaphysical cosmology like the classic Tao of Physics, or My Big T.O.E. and a lot of works came out of the Occult Revival of the 19th century, but I'm not sure I'd recommend many of them other than maybe Regardie. Aaaaaand of course Bardon, but I'm pretty sure I should just put a reminder to read him in my signature so I don't have to mention it every time we talk books at this stage :p
Just remember that no one source is going to give you everything, none of them are perfect, they often contradict, and even more frequently seem to contradict. For example I've found Daoism excellent for mapping the energy body and providing philosophical advice on how to live in harmony with the universe, but near useless when it comes to categorizing the different forms of external substance/energy which comprise the universe. For that I find Hermetic sources infinitely more concise, although they're often (but not always) somewhat dry and less spiritually inspiring - they complement eachother excellently this way. Hinduism provides excellent advice and techniques for spiritual progression, but very little by way of practical magic (at least to the uninitiated, I'm sure Hindu systems of magic are out there, but you might have trouble finding them without going to India and putting in some serious effort to find initiation) or even working with the denser internal energies for goals other than enlightenment, and I'm not fond of their habit of constantly anthropomorphizing universal forces/concepts. It also doesn't appeal to me on an aesthetic level. Buddhism I find entirely too morbid, and doesn't appeal to me at all. But everyone is different.
Anyway as I said, this will seem confusing and contradictory, so in the end you'll have to pick a system of practice which appeals to you and dedicate yourself to it (nothing wrong with including a few side practices from another system, but stay focused and don't end up with a jumble of practices from 3 or 4 systems). Once you've practiced and experienced these things first hand, you'll understand concepts which you struggled with on a theoretical level - some things just have to be experienced to be understood.
Anyway I kinda rambled way off topic there - hopefully someone random will read this and find it useful - I dunno [question2]
Not to mention that different people often use the same labels for different forces. I frequently see Aether, Ether and Vital Force (or some equivalent) used interchangeably, even though everything I've been taught has been that they're vastly different (although intricately interrelated) concepts/forces.Aether, Khaos and Life Force are three completely different forces, though...
Someone needs to publish a Spiritual Dictionary and standardize this stuff :p
"The path of the Sage is called
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"
- DDJ, Verse 27
"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"
- DDJ, Verse 27
"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett
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Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
I agree so much! This would be very handy and would allow to recognise thrash and good stuff on the first glance, not after hour of reading(and thinking all the way, wtf am I reading [crazy] ).Someone needs to publish a Spiritual Dictionary and standardize this stuff :p
Praise Teh Sun\[T]/ [cool]
Illusion is the first of the pleasures.
The bomb of entropic chaos.
If some assholes levels a twelve gauge your way, you drain him, skin him and bash in his skull. Self-preservation is vital part of humanity after all. My favorite part, in fact
My mind is telling me NOOO but my BODY, MY BODY is telling me YEAS
The bomb of entropic chaos.
If some assholes levels a twelve gauge your way, you drain him, skin him and bash in his skull. Self-preservation is vital part of humanity after all. My favorite part, in fact
My mind is telling me NOOO but my BODY, MY BODY is telling me YEAS
Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
A truly effective "standardized" dictionary is almost impossible, precisely because there is more than one legitimate paradigm that uses the same terms in different ways. There are a lot of commonalities, but the closest truly accurate thing you could come up with is either a dictionary for each paradigm, or a completely new paradigm formed with its own meta-dictionary.
Last time someone tried to standardize worldwide occultism, we ended up with Theosophy. And we all know how that turned out.
~:Shin:~
Last time someone tried to standardize worldwide occultism, we ended up with Theosophy. And we all know how that turned out.
~:Shin:~
Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
Lol
There is no paradigm/religion higher than truth right?
There is no paradigm/religion higher than truth right?
------------
The Only Constant is Change
--------------
1. What is a Magician
2. The Human Experience
3. The Jail, The House, and The Temple
--------------
Magari vs Illuminati Conspiracy Theories
The Only Constant is Change
--------------
1. What is a Magician
2. The Human Experience
3. The Jail, The House, and The Temple
--------------
Magari vs Illuminati Conspiracy Theories
Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
That's nice in concept, but it breaks down when you face the fact that there is more than one legitimate version of Truth. If Truth is the peak of the tallest mountain, then two people can look at it from opposite sides, see completely different scenery, and both be right about what is there.magari wrote:Lol
There is no paradigm/religion higher than truth right?
This is why we have different paradigms and different labels from different cultures and traditions. And we will always have this sort of variety, just as we have always had it, because different people need to work their way up the mountain in different ways and at different paces.
~:Shin:~
Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
What about someone who reaches the peak and is looking down on all the different sides of the mountain from there? After all they say all paradigms merge when you go far enough.Shinichi wrote:That's nice in concept, but it breaks down when you face the fact that there is more than one legitimate version of Truth. If Truth is the peak of the tallest mountain, then two people can look at it from opposite sides, see completely different scenery, and both be right about what is there.magari wrote:Lol
There is no paradigm/religion higher than truth right?
This is why we have different paradigms and different labels from different cultures and traditions. And we will always have this sort of variety, just as we have always had it, because different people need to work their way up the mountain in different ways and at different paces.
~:Shin:~
But yeah, it's not a realistic option, I was being flippant about the whole thing. It is a pain having to constantly ask people what they mean when they say different words though.
"The path of the Sage is called
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"
- DDJ, Verse 27
"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"
- DDJ, Verse 27
"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett
Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
Someone who truly and properly initiates to the highest levels of more than one paradigm is very rare. Usually, high initiates and adepts simply view other high truths through their own initatic "lens." Someone who completes the IIH, for example, will see most of the world through the lens of the Neoplatonic Elements, while someone who is initiated in Daoyin will see Wu Xing and Ba Gua, and someone who is strictly an Alchemist will see lots of Salt, Mercury and Sulfur.Rin wrote:What about someone who reaches the peak and is looking down on all the different sides of the mountain from there? After all they say all paradigms merge when you go far enough.
In the rare instance that someone does capture an "essence" of something, the result is usually a completely new paradigm or lineage of thought. A la Aleister Crowley, Eliphas Levi, and even the Golden Dawn and Theosophy were attempts at this. But when you take something really refined and bring it down to an unrefined world, you bring it down to the same traps and pitfalls all the other refined things got stuck in when they were brought down. Then you're back where you started, as Crowley and everyone else found the hard way.
Mortals are notoriously bad at understanding immortal things.
~:Shin:~
Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
Rin wrote:What about someone who reaches the peak and is looking down on all the different sides of the mountain from there? After all they say all paradigms merge when you go far enough.Shinichi wrote:That's nice in concept, but it breaks down when you face the fact that there is more than one legitimate version of Truth. If Truth is the peak of the tallest mountain, then two people can look at it from opposite sides, see completely different scenery, and both be right about what is there.magari wrote:Lol
There is no paradigm/religion higher than truth right?
This is why we have different paradigms and different labels from different cultures and traditions. And we will always have this sort of variety, just as we have always had it, because different people need to work their way up the mountain in different ways and at different paces.
~:Shin:~
But yeah, it's not a realistic option, I was being flippant about the whole thing. It is a pain having to constantly ask people what they mean when they say different words though.
It is a pain.
I was also joking, but its why I choose to use as few words as possible lately. The more words we use, the more we tend to get bogged down in the details. When two people are sharing a perspective, words aren't even necessary.
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The Only Constant is Change
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1. What is a Magician
2. The Human Experience
3. The Jail, The House, and The Temple
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Magari vs Illuminati Conspiracy Theories
The Only Constant is Change
--------------
1. What is a Magician
2. The Human Experience
3. The Jail, The House, and The Temple
--------------
Magari vs Illuminati Conspiracy Theories
Re: Limits of accumulating energy?
But that's my point, as the consciousness expands, the need for these "lenses" is lost. Once you have true experiential understanding of the terrain, then you don't need a map except as a method of explaining things to people who don't have that understanding. A, say, Hermetic Adept and a Buddhist Adept might have different goals, or ideas on how they should conduct themselves as Adepts, but having been to the peak, they've been able to gain a 360 degree view of the terrain and no longer need maps or lenses for themselves, or to converse with between each other. IIH is the perfect example - Bardon took the training he gained in his lifetime as a Tibetan Buddhist Tantrika and used it to convert those practices into the Hermetic paradigm more familiar to the West to fill the large gaps which existed in magical teaching in Europe at the time. The only difference between what he learned in Tibet and what he taught in Europe is the language and philosophy he used to describe it, and the little I know about Tibetan Buddhism suggests even those differences aren't overly large (although I don't doubt that he excluded much of the internal alchemy - possibly it was intended for his fourth publication, or possibly he decided it was too dangerous/sacred to be published, which is pretty much saying the same thing, as I imagine if he wanted the 4th publication to emerge, it would have - according to accounts he was very reluctant about even the first 3 books, although he dedicated himself to the task once he relented to it).Shinichi wrote: Someone who truly and properly initiates to the highest levels of more than one paradigm is very rare. Usually, high initiates and adepts simply view other high truths through their own initatic "lens." Someone who completes the IIH, for example, will see most of the world through the lens of the Neoplatonic Elements, while someone who is initiated in Daoyin will see Wu Xing and Ba Gua, and someone who is strictly an Alchemist will see lots of Salt, Mercury and Sulfur.
I'm not sure I'd call any of those "completely new paradigms or lineages of thought." Thelema is a mashup of (in no special order) Hindu Yoga, Kabalah, Grimoire Magic and Rosicrucian style Ritual Magic with primarily Egyptian aesthetic and mythological trappings, Eliphas Levi, to my knowledge, drew from medieval grimoires and Rosicrucian teachings, the Golden Dawn was quite explicitly a mashup of Rosicrucianism, Hermeticism, Kabalah with a few Hindu teachings thrown in (mainly the Tattva's) and Theosophy was likewise a combination of Western Esotericism and Hindu mysticism.In the rare instance that someone does capture an "essence" of something, the result is usually a completely new paradigm or lineage of thought. A la Aleister Crowley, Eliphas Levi, and even the Golden Dawn and Theosophy were attempts at this. But when you take something really refined and bring it down to an unrefined world, you bring it down to the same traps and pitfalls all the other refined things got stuck in when they were brought down. Then you're back where you started, as Crowley and everyone else found the hard way.
That's the whole purpose of spiritual practice and internal alchemy, to convert the mortal into immortal, the brass into gold, matter into light. Paradigms, maps, lenses, they only exist for those of us who don't yet have the experiential knowledge to cast them off, in the same way that a contour map, a street map and a terrain map might look totally different to someone, even if they depict the same area, but to someone who lives in the area and knows it intimately, all 3 maps will both make perfect sense and be utterly unnecessary.Mortals are notoriously bad at understanding immortal things.
"The path of the Sage is called
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"
- DDJ, Verse 27
"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett
'The Path of Illumination'
he who gives himself to this path
is like a block of wood
that gives itself to the chisel-
cut by cut it is honed to perfection"
- DDJ, Verse 27
"It's still magic even if you know how it's done." - Terry Pratchett