Something is here, I don't know what or who...

[RoseRed]

That is actually the definition of language. It's a way to describe and communicate ideas. As the ideas change, the words sometimes also changes

.

I know. How do we describe and communicate, if not with words? Words have definitions and meanings for a reason. You can call whatever you like by whatever name that you like. I'm not required to agree with you.

A mojo bag is a Hoodoo thing. It is not a hex bag. A real mojo has a summoned spirit within it that needs daily care. The recipe list instructions people find on the internet do not include that part usually. There's a huge difference between what can be found with research and the parts that are purposely left out of public information.

But, like I said - call it whatever you like. I came of age during the New Age Movement. I'm watching the world change again with the Wiccan Movement. So many people think there is so much information out there but so much of it is still hidden - in a purely occult like fashion. It's a beautiful symmetry if you like syncopated movement. That sad part is that the information that is out there is already watered down and by calling things by incorrect names - only serves to further that decline. Which is why I think OF is an important resource in the occult community. It's a library.

You can call me traditional, old fashioned, out of date, an old fart - whatever. We can simply disagree, dude. Is that good with you?

[solace_of_shadows]

I'm a bit tired at the moment so I will respond more in detail later, but for the record, if peeing into anything is needed I don't have a problem with it...haha. I don't know if what I saw and what is going on are even related. Also what of the good feelings associated? I will add more that I had in mind later when I can think more clearly.

[the_spiral]

That is actually the definition of language. It's a way to describe and communicate ideas. As the ideas change, the words sometimes also changes

.

I know. How do we describe and communicate, if not with words? Words have definitions and meanings for a reason. You can call whatever you like by whatever name that you like. I'm not required to agree with you.

A mojo bag is a Hoodoo thing. It is not a hex bag. A real mojo has a summoned spirit within it that needs daily care. The recipe list instructions people find on the internet do not include that part usually. There's a huge difference between what can be found with research and the parts that are purposely left out of public information.

But, like I said - call it whatever you like. I came of age during the New Age Movement. I'm watching the world change again with the Wiccan Movement. So many people think there is so much information out there but so much of it is still hidden - in a purely occult like fashion. It's a beautiful symmetry if you like syncopated movement. That sad part is that the information that is out there is already watered down and by calling things by incorrect names - only serves to further that decline. Which is why I think OF is an important resource in the occult community. It's a library.

You can call me traditional, old fashioned, out of date, an old fart - whatever. We can simply disagree, dude. Is that good with you?

Thank you for stating this so beautifully. Your wisdom comes through in your words. I see so many people following magic spells and advice from the internet (which isn't itself a bad thing, we all have to start somewhere) but these recipes often leave out the actual spiritual energies summoned by such work. Then they don't get results and dismiss occult practice as bunk. If anything, you can get negative results if you make a mojo hand and expect it to do work for you without feeding its spirit. Calling things by their names isn't just a matter of semantics, it's a way of understanding what traditions they come from and the specific energies and powers behind those traditions.

[solace_of_shadows]

Although I'm new I think I understand to a degree what you mean, Rosered and the_spiral with the last post/quote. It makes a lot of sense to follow these things in a certain manner, it is why I am taking so incredibly seriously. Also, the nature of my life events have been so bad as for me to be left with no choice. I began this journey more or less a skeptic. I feel myself changing all the time. I never thought I would experience anything like this, but it is so powerful. There is one aspect to this I can't really explain on here, if someone wants to PM me they can, it's a question involving this matter that may be partly why it is all occurring, or it could be nothing. Either way though, I suspect I really need to get my crap together. Not sure if it's in my head but I saw something else and experienced something else again involving that same magic that tends to affect me (by others). It could've been an accident but I've been hearing more shuffling etc and something fell off one of the speakers connected to my computer. I checked and it was "Sign Language", something one of the toxic people I used to know left. It makes me wonder... If not an accident, than whose side is this "thing" (energy, or entity or whatever - of my mind or not) actually on? Also before that I heard bizarre sounding "breathing" noises from around the house and behind me on my left. I haven't been the only one experiencing this stuff in this place.

[minervajane]

This book might be of help to you: http://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Symptoms-Br ... 1440452121
Although it might not be a ghost you are dealing with, the method in that book can be adapted..and it is a good read. If you follow the recommendations already given in this thread, tho, things should start to calm down. Most importantly, try to stop worrying about it and just do what you need to do to send it on it's way. It can't hurt you physically so get rid of any fear. You don't seem like a negative person at all (negative people seem to attract things), and I think you will have great success at getting rid of the disturbances once you put the advice here in effect. Good luck!

[powessy]

Although I'm new I think I understand to a degree what you mean, Rosered and the_spiral with the last post/quote. It makes a lot of sense to follow these things in a certain manner, it is why I am taking so incredibly seriously. Also, the nature of my life events have been so bad as for me to be left with no choice. I began this journey more or less a skeptic. I feel myself changing all the time. I never thought I would experience anything like this, but it is so powerful. There is one aspect to this I can't really explain on here, if someone wants to PM me they can, it's a question involving this matter that may be partly why it is all occurring, or it could be nothing. Either way though, I suspect I really need to get my crap together. Not sure if it's in my head but I saw something else and experienced something else again involving that same magic that tends to affect me (by others). It could've been an accident but I've been hearing more shuffling etc and something fell off one of the speakers connected to my computer. I checked and it was "Sign Language", something one of the toxic people I used to know left. It makes me wonder... If not an accident, than whose side is this "thing" (energy, or entity or whatever - of my mind or not) actually on? Also before that I heard bizarre sounding "breathing" noises from around the house and behind me on my left. I haven't been the only one experiencing this stuff in this place.

Hello Solace_of_shadows

When was your last sleep paralysis event? what was the duration of the last attack you had the one with pushed thoughts like getting mad for no reason or feeling very strong about something more so then you ever have? These events should have happened over the same time frame. There are two forces at play here the first one is just having fun with you and your thoughts the other is not. The things you are experiencing has nothing to do with majik I promise you that much. No mojo bags or reverse spells or majic words are going to remove the one on the outside of you till he is ready to leave, has he started to touch you yet. I am here looking for them, just tell him to find me I really need them to find me, Just say " find powessy and he will leave you to find me, then he will be gone it is that easy. I have been looking for all of them for over a year now.

Powessy

[magari]

[powessy]

picture of some mad cow

I like your picture does it symbolize something?????

Powessy

[magari]

Maybe you should look closer

[powessy]

Maybe you should look closer

Hello magari

I spent ten minutes looking at your uploaded photo which was nine and a half more minutes then I should have. I did get the water mark name in the middle of the cows face and took almost a half hour looking through diviantart.coms picture galleries which was full of very nice works from many artists around the world, think you. You are an anime fan I take it, Naruto, dragonball, and sword art online are still my favorite. Well back to the cow image you uploaded, I find nothing about it that is, I don't understand your intention, it makes me happy [unsure] or creative [unsure] is this its meaning? I have never in my life had a nightmare not even one, the funny thing is every time I see something entering into my dreams I just become it I am excited to see if this cow shows up, I haven't been one of them yet. I am sorry if I am missing it's meaning I am confused perhaps that is it's meaning to confuse people?


I think this smilie would have had the same thoughts [rage] as your cow image.

Powessy

[magari]

I think its hilarious you see a cow.


Moooo

Do you eat beef?

[Desecrated]

You can call me traditional, old fashioned, out of date, an old fart - whatever. We can simply disagree, dude. Is that good with you?

You know, I'm twice your age.
Your not old fashioned, your just stubborn. The changing of language is one of the very basic ideas behind linguistics and has been so since the 70's.

https://www.ling.upenn.edu/courses/Fall ... hange.html

A mojo bag is a Hoodoo thing.

No and yes.
That is an oversimplification.
It's like saying that the cross is a christian symbol.

[Desecrated]

I see so many people following magic spells and advice from the internet (which isn't itself a bad thing, we all have to start somewhere) but these recipes often leave out the actual spiritual energies summoned by such work.

Spiritual energy is just one way of looking at things. It's one belief and although it is traditionally right, it doesn't necessary mean that everybody wants to continue that practice.
Plus there is always difference of opinion, beliefs and other factors that play in.

[Desecrated]

Although I'm new I think I understand to a degree what you mean, Rosered and the_spiral with the last post/quote. It makes a lot of sense to follow these things in a certain manner, it is why I am taking so incredibly seriously. Also, the nature of my life events have been so bad as for me to be left with no choice. I began this journey more or less a skeptic. I feel myself changing all the time. I never thought I would experience anything like this, but it is so powerful. There is one aspect to this I can't really explain on here, if someone wants to PM me they can, it's a question involving this matter that may be partly why it is all occurring, or it could be nothing. Either way though, I suspect I really need to get my crap together. Not sure if it's in my head but I saw something else and experienced something else again involving that same magic that tends to affect me (by others). It could've been an accident but I've been hearing more shuffling etc and something fell off one of the speakers connected to my computer. I checked and it was "Sign Language", something one of the toxic people I used to know left. It makes me wonder... If not an accident, than whose side is this "thing" (energy, or entity or whatever - of my mind or not) actually on? Also before that I heard bizarre sounding "breathing" noises from around the house and behind me on my left. I haven't been the only one experiencing this stuff in this place.

I don't think you should concentrate on why or how this is happening.
You should focus your energy on how to stop it.

If you have objects from people you no longer wish to associate, get rid of those things.
If you have given away things to others that you might think wants you harm, you can cut those things out of your life. Uncrossing rituals might be worth looking into.
Although the rituals I mentioned earlier has some elements of uncrossing in them as well.

[RoseRed]

Wow! I had no idea you were in your 80s Desecrated. Which really has little to do with anything because I was called old-fashioned when I was still in my teens. I was brought up in a traditional Ruskie household.

I certainly can't argue with stubborn LOL. But, show me a damn good reason and I am always open to changing an opinion based on further education. You should know that about me by now.

Try to remember that I'm not speaking for anyone else but myself. Myself being a lineaged trad witch. Trad - as in Traditional. As in I'm not going to change the words and definitions I use because someone on the internet says 'I can make it up as I go and call it whatever I like cuz this is Wicca!' (in my best 300 voice) [yay]

THIS is what's wrong with the whole 'solitary, eclectic, i'm gonna call myself after a religion that i don't follow or know jack shit about, water it all down and make it palatable for the masses' bullshit!

It was brilliant! I wonder if the authors that started the solitary wiccan movement had any idea that by making it so mainstream that the occultic practitioners can speak openly like we're doing right now. People barely bat an eye when I say I'm Pagan. Witch is a totally different story.

Just because I give a great big sincere THANK YOU to those that made is soooooooo easy to hide in plain site doesn't mean I agree with the watering down of things. And you know what? I don't have to. I have my own Tradition. Now, before you accuse me clinging to something outdated or whatever other diatribe we've all heard before - just remember you know very little about my personal practice.

the_spiral wrote: I see so many people following magic spells and advice from the internet (which isn't itself a bad thing, we all have to start somewhere) but these recipes often leave out the actual spiritual energies summoned by such work.

Desecrated: Spiritual energy is just one way of looking at things. It's one belief and although it is traditionally right, it doesn't necessary mean that everybody wants to continue that practice.

Plus there is always difference of opinion, beliefs and other factors that play in.

And this is the difference between people that actually do Spirit Work and those that read about it. If you're going to perform a 'summoning' - by definition you are calling something to you. What's the point in wasting your time doing a summoning if you don't think there's anything out there to summon? I just can't wrap my brain around 'I don't think any of this is real but imma gonna go thru the motions'. I don't get it.

And you're right - not everyone wants to practice that way. Not everyone is able to either. How much a person wants to has very little to do with anything. People can do and call things whatever they like. This thread is perfect proof of this. Really.

We're not going to change each other's opinion here. We simply disagree. And when you write about it - I'll pipe up with my 2 cents, you'll fuss and me, we'll carry on like an old married couple for a bit and then we'll quit sidetracking the conversation. Hows that sound to you? [happyface]

[the_spiral]

Spiritual energy is just one way of looking at things. It's one belief and although it is traditionally right, it doesn't necessary mean that everybody wants to continue that practice.
Plus there is always difference of opinion, beliefs and other factors that play in.

See, but I'm not talking about belief or opinion. I'm talking about practice. You're speaking as someone who reads a lot and enjoys debating semantics. That's cool, I really respect that. But I'm not speaking semantically, I'm speaking pragmatically as someone who works mojo rather than just reading about it. And I can tell you making a mojo hand with random ingredients and calling it something else and acting as though it has no spiritual energy of its own simply doesn't work as well as making it with traditional ingredients and empowering it with its own name and personality. And any other root worker will tell you the same. These traditions don't just appear out of nowhere, they're honed through generations of trial and error and practice. If something works, we keep using it. If it doesn't, we throw it away. Regardless of personal belief or opinion, the Work is the Work.

Although I do greatly enjoy reading these debates between you and RoseRed [yay]

[Desecrated]

Wow! I had no idea you were in your 80s Desecrated. Which really has little to do with anything because I was called old-fashioned when I was still in my teens. I was brought up in a traditional Ruskie household.

I certainly can't argue with stubborn LOL. But, show me a damn good reason and I am always open to changing an opinion based on further education. You should know that about me by now.

Try to remember that I'm not speaking for anyone else but myself. Myself being a lineaged trad witch. Trad - as in Traditional. As in I'm not going to change the words and definitions I use because someone on the internet says 'I can make it up as I go and call it whatever I like cuz this is Wicca!' (in my best 300 voice) [yay]

I really wish you would have read the article I linked. here it is again:

https://www.ling.upenn.edu/courses/Fall ... hange.html

THIS is what's wrong with the whole 'solitary, eclectic, i'm gonna call myself after a religion that i don't follow or know jack shit about, water it all down and make it palatable for the masses' bullshit!

It was brilliant! I wonder if the authors that started the solitary wiccan movement had any idea that by making it so mainstream that the occultic practitioners can speak openly like we're doing right now. People barely bat an eye when I say I'm Pagan. Witch is a totally different story.

Just because I give a great big sincere THANK YOU to those that made is soooooooo easy to hide in plain site doesn't mean I agree with the watering down of things. And you know what? I don't have to. I have my own Tradition. Now, before you accuse me clinging to something outdated or whatever other diatribe we've all heard before - just remember you know very little about my personal practice.

I hope you don't think I'm a wiccan.

And this is the difference between people that actually do Spirit Work and those that read about it. If you're going to perform a 'summoning' - by definition you are calling something to you. What's the point in wasting your time doing a summoning if you don't think there's anything out there to summon? I just can't wrap my brain around 'I don't think any of this is real but imma gonna go thru the motions'. I don't get it.

What you call a spirit or deity, I might just call a fiction of my own imagination. As far as I know 'god' or anything else I can think of is exactly just that: Just another thought. They are a representation of an idea. I'm not summoning the person, I'm summoning the idea or that particular mindset.
Not that summoning is what I've been talking about so far, but that is the gist of it.

And you're right - not everyone wants to practice that way. Not everyone is able to either. How much a person wants to has very little to do with anything. People can do and call things whatever they like. This thread is perfect proof of this. Really.

We're not going to change each other's opinion here. We simply disagree. And when you write about it - I'll pipe up with my 2 cents, you'll fuss and me, we'll carry on like an old married couple for a bit and then we'll quit sidetracking the conversation. Hows that sound to you? [happyface]

Nope, you're wrong and I'm right.

[RoseRed]

[lol]

and no, I've never thought you were wiccan.

And yes, I did skim over that long article. I know. I'm being stubborn. [tongue]


[lol]

[Desecrated]

Spiritual energy is just one way of looking at things. It's one belief and although it is traditionally right, it doesn't necessary mean that everybody wants to continue that practice.
Plus there is always difference of opinion, beliefs and other factors that play in.

See, but I'm not talking about belief or opinion. I'm talking about practice. You're speaking as someone who reads a lot and enjoys debating semantics. That's cool, I really respect that. But I'm not speaking semantically, I'm speaking pragmatically as someone who works mojo rather than just reading about it. And I can tell you making a mojo hand with random ingredients and calling it something else and acting as though it has no spiritual energy of its own simply doesn't work as well as making it with traditional ingredients and empowering it with its own name and personality. And any other root worker will tell you the same. These traditions don't just appear out of nowhere, they're honed through generations of trial and error. If something works, we keep using it. If it doesn't, we throw it away. Regardless of personal belief or opinion, the Work is the Work.

Although I do greatly enjoy reading these debates between you and RoseRed [yay]

You do realize that you are speaking about a subject that is older then the language you are currently using...
Mojo is just a slang for the thing that we are talking about and yes depending on what region the speaker is from the terms might slightly differ.
"Alternative American names for the mojo bag include hand, mojo hand, conjure hand, lucky hand, conjure bag, trick bag, root bag, toby, jomo, and gris-gris bag."


Some of those names aren't even American in origin. Heck these practices was around long before Africans set foot in America. And hoodoo has so many influences that it is hard to say where everything is from.
And thinking that it is only tied to hoodoo is just like thinking that the cross is only a christian symbol-

[the_spiral]

Yup, thanks for the history lesson, but I know all of this already. Again, the fact that language evolves over time and throughout geographic regions doesn't mean it's meaningless and you can call anything whatever you like and get the same results. If a rootworker from Louisiana calls their work a mojo hand and one from North Carolina calls theirs a conjure bag, are they talking about exactly the same thing? Maybe, maybe not. But they're sure as hell not talking about witch bottles or hex bags or poppets or anything else that doesn't have African diasporic roots. A groundhog, a woodchuck and a gopher may or may or may not refer to the same type of critter depending on where you go. But that doesn't mean you can call them jaybirds without people looking at you crazy.

Again, you are arguing semantics. Not praxis. There's a difference and I'm guessing it's the reason why we're talking past each other.

[Desecrated]

If a rootworker from Louisiana calls their work a mojo hand and one from North Carolina calls theirs a conjure bag, are they talking about exactly the same thing? Maybe, maybe not. But they're sure as hell not talking about witch bottles or hex bags or poppets

Actually, they kinda are.
Some of the earliest examples of mojo bag are tied to dutch folk magic such as hex bags.
Of course this is only because we have literary works that points toward it, the exact origins of both of these items are unknown.
As I mentioned before, witch bottles and hex bags are much much older and comes in many different varieties here in Europa.

Now, you can certainly argue that a witch bottle usually is in a bottle and a mojo bag usually are in a bag/pouch. But in reality this would be pretty narrow-minded and focused only on the American tradition. Which again only stretches back a couple of hundreds year.
In my culture and my language the two items are interchangeable. Claiming that a mojobag has to be a hoodoo tradition and nothing else is simple wrong. From where I'm standing mojobag is just the American word/term for it. Especially since mojo is just a slang and hoodoo is just one variation of a much larger network of schools.

Now, Since this is an international forum which has many different practitioners from many different schools we sometimes use a broader sense when speaking to each other. If you say chakras, I have a rudimentary idea of what you are talking about, even though we don't have chakras in traditional witchcraft, we are certainly aware of power centers, nerve-centers and points of observation.

So a spell in a bottle can be referred to as a witch bottle because 99% of the time, you can probably guess what the hell I'm talking about.
And if I choose to use ammoniac in my recipe, I'm not pissing on anybodies tradition. (pun intended)

[RoseRed]

[lol] [lol] [lol] [lol] [lol]

[Nahemah]

I can split the topic, so the argument over language and practice can continue elsewhere, or everyone can return to the OP's subject.

Which should it be?

And please remember to keep the discussion civil too.

[RoseRed]

Whatever you think is best. I agree that it's time to get back on topic.

[the_spiral]

No interest in continuing the conversation since it's likely to go in circles. Apologies for my part in taking it off-topic Nahemah!