Conscious Intervention

[Haelos]

I got some inspiration from that active topic from the past couple days, hanging around here.

Does anyone else have issues with your brain being like "Hey dude, that isn't really possible. Stop doing that stuff."?

Occasionally when I perform a serious spell that effects the physical plane, my brain freaks the hell out. I can't really describe the experience with words that make sense. It's unpleasant, say the least.

Most of our low magick works on causality and coincidence. To perform a spell that effects the physical in a way that can truly astound you is something else entirely.

I've been trying to understand repressed memories (especially my own) and there is a relation between truly magical things and memories getting blocked out.




Okay, my words got scewy here, so let me just rephrase this for anyone who needs it;

Do you ever have issues with your conscious mind interfering with your magick, or other types of subconscious programming (such as hypnosis, autosuggestion, etc.)?
If so, how do you combat these issues?

[WillowDarkWytch]

Motumbá Àse!

Most of our low magick works on causality and coincidence. To perform a spell that effects the physical in a way that can truly astound you is something else entirely.

Sorry, I desagree. Maybe Causality, but coincidence, not much. As most esotericists and hermeticists, we don't believe in "chance". I would say that low magick may be more relate to something called Synchronicity. That would be a better concept and is also related to Causality.

Either way, magick as in "magical energy/power" moves through channels of "least resistance". It's like a river, unless it comes like a gigantic wave down the mountain, if water finds an obstacle, it mostly goes around it. Magick is almost the same. It "flows" through "least resistance" channels.

Do you ever have issues with your conscious mind interfering with your magick, or other types of subconscious programming (such as hypnosis, autosuggestion, etc.)?
If so, how do you combat these issues?

I believe that everybody has this "That's in no way realistic" thought. Some have a lower or higher "reallity" bar than others, but we all do have this issue in some point or another. Whats absolutely possible for me, for other magickians or witches it's too "harry potter". I have actually a really high bar, I've seen a lot of things that once I thought they where just part of fantasy, so that made my "spectrum of possible" much wider

But, when I do have this mind evil devil telling me that what I want to achieve is not possible, I just try not to think "is it possible or not?" I just do it, without over thinking, like "reapeating a recipe" that when done it has to have the effect or product expected. Not giving the importance that it might have. And usually get the best results of that, of not caring.

Saravá
Idansinají

[Shinichi]

Most of our low magick works on causality and coincidence. To perform a spell that effects the physical in a way that can truly astound you is something else entirely.

Not mine. [tongue] I know someone who lost power in their house last month because of an ice storm. She didn't want her dogs to be cold all night, so she called a salamander she had made friends with a little while before and asked him to hang out in her living room for the night so the dogs would be warm. He did, and while the rest of the house was freezing cold all night, that one corner of the living room remained perfectly warm until the salamander left. It freaked out her roommate a bit, but it wasn't anything astounding or complicated to her or me.

Just stop over thinking everything. Magick is simple, people complicate it. [gz]



~:Shin:~

[Desecrated]

Most of our low magick works on causality and coincidence.

Causality and coincidence is two completely different things in my mind.
Causality is something that is absolutely certainly going to happen.
Coincidence is randomness and uncertainty.

[Haelos]

Delete this

First of all, shut up.

I'm not here to argue subjective interpretations of the definitions of words.


Shinichi, let's take your example a few steps further:
I'm focusing my intent at an unlit candle wick, filling it with red light (fire).
After a long time in meditation while staring, the wick suddenly ignites.
Then, my brain goes into lockdown mode, trying to somehow justify such an occurrence with science (even though I'm well aware of the magick performed), and I sort of "black out" in attempted ignorance.
As my brain freaks out, the flame dissipates, and I'm unable to reignite it in the same way.

Clearly, it goes against modern conventional thought that starting fire with your mind is possible. Anyone else in the world who would see such a thing would try and justify an event like that in a way that can make sense to them.
This is common fact. People shut out things they don't understand. It's actually a really simple process to follow, in psychology.

My problem is, my conscious and egotistical mind still tries to do this to me. And I'm not sure how to push past it.

[Shinichi]

And I'm not sure how to push past it.

Because you are trying to push.

There is no barrier, grasshopper. There is only you. Relax, be, and stop thinking incorrectly.

~:Shin:~

[Desecrated]

Delete this

First of all, shut up.

It was meant to the mods "delete this" as in delete this message. Not delete your thread.

[Desecrated]

I'm focusing my intent at an unlit candle wick, filling it with red light (fire).
After a long time in meditation while staring, the wick suddenly ignites.
Then, my brain goes into lockdown mode, trying to somehow justify such an occurrence with science (even though I'm well aware of the magick performed), and I sort of "black out" in attempted ignorance.
As my brain freaks out, the flame dissipates, and I'm unable to reignite it in the same way.

Your thinking to much, your talking to much, your posting to much, you're all over the place thinking about 500 different things at the same time. Slow down, calm down, find your center.

[Desecrated]

Occasionally when I perform a serious spell that effects the physical plane, my brain freaks the hell out.

That's because you're pushing it to hard. Just relax and let it come naturally.
There is nothing unnatural about magic, nothing supernatural or paranormal, it's all natural and normal. Just because science hasn't caught up to it all doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are tons of things that science can't explain that we experience every day.
Like gravity.
And women.

[Nahemah]

Deleted as requested, Desecrated. [thumbup]

@Haelos, you do come across as a bit reactionary and overwound, I saw no rudeness, just an error post that went over the edit window so required staff to get rid of it, is all.

[RockDemon]

This is something I am struggling with occasionally.
First of all, as is suggested by everybody relax indeed.
2nd, what I find that is helping me in such cases is the acceptance. If it works then it works, great! You do not need to know how car works in order to drive it. However if you want to know how it works then study it.
Finally there is nothing wrong in something being scientifically explained. After all there is no such thing as "supernatural". Hermetic principles are natural laws. And as Shin once said, Hermeticism is a scientific method. It's the institutional science that causes definition of natural and supernatural because it is bound to the material yet.

[CCoburn]

All the time! My rational mind will be like: Dude! Are you fucking nuts?! With your colored candles, chants, and all this other shit. At this point, there are any number of things I can point out to my rational mind to justify my apparent madness. Like some other fantastic reality that I've become somewhat cozy with. Like how I live on a spinning rock out in infinite fucking space, surrounded by a bunch of other spinning rocks, that circle around this big flaming ball of fire. Sure hope nothing is left to chance here. Of course not Spida, how could there be, afterall, this has been going on for almost 5 billion years! Not to mention the strict time schedule maintained here.

Plus my results helps to alleviate this apparent insanity.

I push on, I want to know whats behind all this. I want to feel it. I love the slight rushes of energy I get sometimes.
Science can't help me. I need the Occult!

Cheers

[cyberdemon]

you guys are weird
my consciousness never tells me such things, it's more "omg ya lets do dis" at everything

[WillowDarkWytch]

Motumbá Àse!

Now I've got the thread!

Haelos isn't talking about Magick, he's talking specifically about physical effects like set up in fire or telekinesis, etc. which is part of magick, not a really important one, but magick as it is, no it's not.

My advice is the same, just "repeat the recipe", do what you do to cause the effect and just let it happen. As Desecrated said above, you're thinking it too much. Just don't do it. When I was younger I had that problem, I guess that you'll come over it in time.

There are certain things that just time and experience can fix, no book, no forum, no talk. Just Time and Experience.

And remember what Bardon said about trying to do those things. It's a waste of time and you could do some REAL work, real HERMETIC work.

Saravá!
Idansinají

[Haelos]

That's the big problem.
*I'm* not doing anything. It's an automatic reaction that I cannot control.

Maybe you guys should look into the concept of "vulgar magick".

[Desecrated]

That's the big problem.
*I'm* not doing anything. It's an automatic reaction that I cannot control.

Maybe you guys should look into the concept of "vulgar magick".

Nothing happens by itself, you and your mind are not two separate things.

I looked into vulgar magic, seems to be a roleplaying idea that reality is a certain way and that magic breaks with reality.
The solution is simple, change your concept of reality.

[Haelos]

That's the big problem.
*I'm* not doing anything. It's an automatic reaction that I cannot control.

Maybe you guys should look into the concept of "vulgar magick".

Nothing happens by itself, you and your mind are not two separate things.

I looked into vulgar magic, seems to be a roleplaying idea that reality is a certain way and that magic breaks with reality.
The solution is simple, change your concept of reality.

First off, I apologize, as I thought your comment before was in reference to the thread. It didn't seem to have any relevance, and I'm not sure how that post ended up there.


That's a really, really good solution. In theory.
And that's honestly what I'm kind of working on.
But it isn't quite as simple as it seems.

You can't just shut off parts of your brain. At least, not easily.

[WillowDarkWytch]

That's the big problem.
*I'm* not doing anything. It's an automatic reaction that I cannot control.

Yes you are, you need to find out what to do to control that unconscious aspect that boicots your practices. Yes, unconcious. You don't know "why it happens" or "when" it's going to happen. It's an unconscious reflex. there's something in the back that's doing it. not your consiousness.

Maybe you guys should look into the concept of "vulgar magick".

Yes, I'm familiar with it and it still is a waste of time and energy.

Yes, you do that kind of things to prove yourself, and no, after that it has no practical use, not in your daily life (no, you're not gonna light cigarettes with your eyes) and ofcourse not in your spiritual life. It's to prove yourself and for stage shows, just as "Frabato" did in the book. And even he did it with a spiritual task, to demonstrate people that there were invisible principles.

You're loading your head with questions about something that doesn't have any importance at all. Maybe it's your own Inner Self blocking trash. You know what you did, you know it happened. So, don't give it more thinking

[Shinichi]

That's the big problem.
*I'm* not doing anything. It's an automatic reaction that I cannot control.

You are more than you think you are. That is why I said you have incorrect thinking.

That's a really, really good solution. In theory.
And that's honestly what I'm kind of working on.
But it isn't quite as simple as it seems.

You can't just shut off parts of your brain. At least, not easily.

What is simple? What is easy?

You think it is difficult, therefore it is. You think it is complex, therefore it is.

Relax.

Be.

Then you will see things differently.



~:Shin:~

[Desecrated]

You can't just shut off parts of your brain. At least, not easily.

What is simple? What is easy?

You think it is difficult, therefore it is. You think it is complex, therefore it is.

[Shinichi]

[rofl]

Don't forget my favorite proverb. Life is easy, people complicate it. [grin]



~:Shin:~

[CCoburn]

Life can be easy unless the Universe decides to take a dump on you. Easy is only one end of the spectrum. One person goes through hell, for another only bliss. Choices, luck, or fate - the big wheel of fortune in the sky.

[Shinichi]

A mans life is not defined by how many trials he faced, but by how he faced them.



~:Shin:~

[WillowDarkWytch]

Motumbá Àse!

Our life depends on our decisions, the ones made before coming and the ones we make here on earth. And, as Shin says, it depends on how we face our problems. Wether you believe in fate or not, the choice it's always yours

Saravá,
Idansinají!

[CCoburn]

Anyways, as far as the original topic goes. I'd say that Magick transcends reason, and exercises absurdities that conflict with the rational mind. I suppose the majority of this could be a matter of convention, and social programming.

It's not that big of a deal really though, if you have been pondering this sort of thing long enough. I'd consider it negligible.