Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

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DarkSchneider
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Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by DarkSchneider »

I've had a large collection of gemstones in my possession. They didn't cost me very much and I'm still identifying many of them. But I come across conflicting opinions as to whether gems with drilled holes in them, are still alive/magickal or not. I'm rather confused if I can still use them at all. Any ideas?

I was told from an occult supply store (I didn't buy the stones there btw) that the stones will still be useful. But my book that I am reading entitled The Modern Witchcraft Spellbook by Skye Alexander suggests it kills a stone to drill a hole in it.
"...You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints—know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world." -Anton LaVey

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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by Spida »

DarkSchneider wrote:I've had a large collection of gemstones in my possession. They didn't cost me very much and I'm still identifying many of them. But I come across conflicting opinions as to whether gems with drilled holes in them, are still alive/magickal or not. I'm rather confused if I can still use them at all. Any ideas?

I was told from an occult supply store (I didn't buy the stones there btw) that the stones will still be useful. But my book that I am reading entitled The Modern Witchcraft Spellbook by Skye Alexander suggests it kills a stone to drill a hole in it.
I think they can still be used. The only thing that would bug me about that is they would be diminished aesthetically. In the case of a crystal, the act of drilling a hole would maybe disrupt any energy already stored on it.

In the case of ordinary gemstones(and stones in general). Lately i've been using them primarily for color, since the color is what determines their frequency in the EM Spectrum. So in this case the hole matters not.

Maybe some of the gems with holes could be used for a necklace, or some other craft project.

Also, maybe consecration might be an idea for any stones you want to use for Magick.

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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by RoseRed »

The stones with holes drilled in them are usually used for jewelry, amulets, talismans, crafty things, window hangers, etc.

I have bunches of stones, tiny ones to softball sized ones. My big rose quartz has a hole drilled in it to hold a headlight candle. When you use smaller stones, it's helpful to use a bunch of them. No, I don't agree that drilling a hole in it kills it.
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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by Desecrated »

There is a belief that the stones are really good at holding energy that you charge them with. So when you buy them in the store they don't have much energy and drilling a hole in it would technically kill of what ever was in the stone from before.
BUT, that doesn't mean that you can't charge it again.

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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by RoseRed »

I've never heard that before. I still don't agree with it but I've heard of it now.

Stones are made of the earth element. Do you really think drilling is going to kill it?
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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by Spida »

The stones themselves are not killed, just whatever is on them(maybe). Anyways, im not sure about the properties of any given stone. Crystals on the other hand, can hold data like the hard drive in your computer. And drilling a hole through that would not only(Probably) kill the data but the drive as well. Crystals(and some stones)are much more robust, since they are a fractal, you can take a piece of a stone or crystal, and its the same as the donor, only smaller.

Crystals are an interesting formation...we use them everyday, in radios, watches, scanners, and other ways that dont come to mind. Alot of gems seem similar to crystals and probably work the same way. As far as common stones. I use them for color. to me the form and aesthetics is important as well.

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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by Shinichi »

There are a few things here to consider in order to understand why the answer is "yes."

Each physical mineral as an individual physical substance has its own specific vibration of energy that results from its unique composition of other energies and other material (periodic elements, etc), which is part of why each mineral and metal and so on has different magical applications. Different energies do different things. Now, this innate energy comes from the composition of the mineral itself (among other things), so it will still be there whether you drill a hole in it or smash it to dust or do other strange things to it - as long as you are working with the mineral, on a base level, it will always have its unique physical and metaphysical properties until you change it into something else.

But then you get into alchemy, complex enchantment, and other generally advanced subjects. Every physical object also has a natural "capacity" for energy. This is true of minerals and metals as much as it is true for your body. If you push too much electricity through a copper wire, you can see the copper melt, break, and other things. Likewise, if you push too much energy through your physical body, your nervous system will experience issues rather similar to the previously mentioned copper wire. And likewise, this is also true for mineral stones. Many stones can hold a lot of energy, but there is a point where they, too, burn out.

This is for the same reason as the wire and the body analogies. A strong wire will be able to handle a strong current, while a weak wire will break under the pressures of a strong current. A strong body will be able to handle a strong charge of energy, while a weak body will break under the pressures of a strong charge. And, of course, a strong mineral stone (one with few impurities and a strong physical integrity) will be able to handle a strong charge of energy, while a weak mineral stone (one with many impurities and a weak physical integrity) will break under the pressures of a strong charge.

Most people, generally speaking, do not have the actual magical skill to charge a typical mineral stone with so much energy that it shatters. But it can happen, and I've seen it myself. It just depends on your talents, tradition and what sort of work you are going for.

So, considering all of this, I can easily say that "yes, a gemstone drilled with holes is still magical." All mineral stones are magical, because they all have a unique energy signature and unique magical properties. As long as the composition of the mineral is there, it is magical, and has magical applications. But if you are going to do higher level work with high level enchantments and charging, then other factors are meant to be taken into account, the same way a jewelry smith takes into account many factors before he makes a diamond ring. Magick is a craft, and the work produced by a craft is ultimately only as good as the craftsman.



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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by Desecrated »

RoseRed wrote: Do you really think drilling is going to kill it?
No, but I think it will disturbe the energy/vibrations in it so that it needs to be charged again.

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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by RoseRed »

That depends. Most stones and crystals don't need to be charged at all. They have their energy signatures, their associations and they do what they do without human interference. Charging a crystal or stone is kinda like steering a car. You want it to go a certain way (or focus on a specific attribute) so you steer it that way. There's way more to both than just the steering wheel.

I'll cleanse my crystals but until they're used in a working - I let them do what they do naturally. Why fuck with perfection? Why think I know better than Mother Nature or whatever force made these things in the first place. I don't know how to make a rock but I can use them as a tool.

And there are times that drilling or removing pieces is part of the working.
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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by Desecrated »

If i have a stone in my hand i try to feel it's energy, i visualize it being almost like a ligth. And then I try to boost that light or boost the energy,
So I don't change what mother nature has done, I just enhance it.
It's like finding a small pot with raninwater and then adding more rainwater.

And then when I need the properties of the stone, I draw that light/energy into me.
So they are like carry on batteries. And of course the pot is empty, so I have to fill it up again later.
But I've also noticed that just leaving the stone outside it tends to fill itself up, even If I don't charge it.

There is other ways to work with stones, but this is my prefered method.

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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by Neko-phyte »

Desecrated wrote:
RoseRed wrote: Do you really think drilling is going to kill it?
No, but I think it will disturbe the energy/vibrations in it so that it needs to be charged again.
+1

There are of course different forms that you can get gemstones in, and each form will affect a gem's energy levels. The less treatments, drilling, faceting and polishing, etc a gem undergoes, the less disturbed it is. I work in a jewellery store (just 'regular' retail job), and a lot of the gems there are faceted... and the poor things feel very sad. The only exceptions are the Citrine jewellery pieces, as they're one of the two gems which never need cleansing/charging.*

I also had a gemstone of mine made into a pendant, and the poor thing was so disrupted by that process that it was crying out for some good extensive TLC. I gave it as soon as I could. Everything was fine after that [thumbup]

Here's a rough order of what I've noticed disrupts gems from least to most:
-Digging them out of the ground
-then tumbling them
-then putting in a simple drill hole
-then cutting them/rough shaping into 'gem' shapes often found in retail etc
-polishing into a cabochon
-polishing into a brilliant cut or other facets that have points

the more extensive/intricate the cutting and polishing, the more disrupted the gem will be. If it set into jewellery, or dyed, or heat treated etc--each of these things adds additional stresses.

*Interesting note on Citrine: most Citrine commercially available is actually heat-treated Amethyst. It still works as Citrine, but sometimes you'll find clusters of Citrine that look a very deep brown colour on the top--these always feel 'burnt' to me and their energy is never as good as a heat-treated orange Citrine, let alone a natural one.

...That's probably more than what anyone was asking for, but it's nice to find a place where I can talk about it. :-X

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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by Suba »

Blessings DarkSchneider,

As RoseRed pointed out, stones and gems that have holes in them have been used for a long time as jewelry and amulets, and under those conditions their effect are just as powerful, if not more powerful in some situations.

I agree with Spida, in that, even a smaller "piece of a stone or crystal" will retain some of the properties of the larger donor stone/crystal.

As for Shinichi's first argument, I totally agree that no matter what, be it a whole specimen or ground up in a powder, it will still retain its base energetic formations. I have made charger wands where I would break up a crystal and magnet to place inside it, and I found it to be even more energetically intense then before.

Shinichi's second argument about a stones capacity to hold a charge is true in my book as well. In fact, some would argue that a chipped or holed stone would actually leak its energy out. I have not found this to be true myself, but I could imagine there being some truth to it.

As for RoseRed and Desecrated stance on stones carrying their own vibration – that is totally true in my experience. The catch I would say is that the crystalline structures of the stones also retain all the energy and information that has passed through them. So, energetic cleansing as Desecrated pointed out is a good idea as is mentally boosting the signal. I also agree with RoseRed in regards to directing the energy.

Thanks Neko-phyte, your list of things that disturb gemstone energies is beautiful.

Now to my take, psychologically I have found drilled holes to be a huge distraction unless they are bound together. While I have experienced broken crystals retaining their energy and information, I also found them to be considerably depleted, much like a holograph that has all the information in every part, but drastically reduced in clarity.

Having said that, I have worked with holed stones with great effect/affect. One thing that you can do with a holed stone that is more difficult with a whole one, is to direct light, water, or some other substance through them. This imbues the stones energy upon that substance. Try shining your candle's light through the hole upon your face or upon some object on your altar and see what happens for yourself. I have found it to be quite powerful in projecting the stones energy.

Another thing you can do is string the stone with metal wire. I have found this to be effective in circulating the stones energy, especially when you add a few different types of stones – it actually integrates their energies better than just holding them together.

Although there are some things you can do with holed stones, I still personally prefer whole ones. Aesthetically, psychologically, and tactually, they are more pleasing for sure. Energetically, the difference is minimal in most circumstances. Though, I can say, in one experience I had where my selenite wand broke, it affected me for a very long time. It wasn't until I repurposed it energetically that I was able to move on.

Blessings Be,
Suba
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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by RoseRed »

Neko and Suba, wonderful posts.. It's so wonderful to see others that work with stones on this level. You don't find it often.

I haven't come across a problem with energy leaking out. I never even heard of it before. I wonder if it got mixed up with a horseshoe? Some of the things I'm coming across as 'common knowledge' on fb if just plain inaccurate. And hag stones? I wonder if those leak too lolol. (I really don't lol)
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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by Desecrated »

Do anybody want to go into the difference of what a talisman is compared to an amulet and how the character of a stone changes from being a stone or a stone-pendant?

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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by Shinichi »

The leakage thing isn't really as common as most seem to think, but it does happen. It mainly has to do with damage to the energy body of the stone, rather than the physical body, and it most often occurs when a charge is accumulated beyond the capacity of the stone. Just like how a human body can burnout from charging too much energy, all other objects can too. The energy body breaks first, then the physical body.

For most stones, even this snaps back together when the material separates into smaller shards, the energy usually adjusts itself accordingly. But, sometimes it doesn't, or sometimes the "break" is only partial, and things like this cause damage. Leakage (in regards to "it won't hold a charge" leakage, not "it has no energy of its own" leakage) is one kind of problem caused by this, there are lots of other kinds of changes that happen too.

But like I said, most of this comes from higher level energy work and alchemy stuff. As long as you're only using the stone's natural essence, working with it via physical means, that kind of damage shouldn't happen even in big ass ritual work.
Desecrated wrote:Do anybody want to go into the difference of what a talisman is compared to an amulet and how the character of a stone changes from being a stone or a stone-pendant?
In my own lessons, a talisman is primarily a magical object that has been charged with certain energy using either its natural essence, or natural energies and magical symbols that are resonant with the natural essence (Ruby with Fire + Mars, etc). Its magical power doesn't come from imposing your will onto it as much as it is simply a matter of "activating" what is already there. You can make a Planetary Ring of Sol, for example, by taking a simple gold (metal of Sol) band, and putting it through certain "blessings" at certain hours on Sunday. Then, always wear on Sunday, and only on Sunday. Once the ring is properly consecrated as such, it will be a talismanic object that will emit an aura, which will cause magical influence via the energy and powers of The Solar Ray. Going down another route, I have a personal grimoire that is talismanic not because I worked a bunch of spells upon it, but because the spells and magical symbols I have written upon the paper have been absorbed into the book, and so the book of magick became a magical object.

Amulets, in general, can be made the same way. They can also be made via direct energy work and enchantment, but the one distinction I personally hold is that amulets tend to serve a specific purpose. Whereas the talismanic ring mentioned previously is magical only because it has been consecrated to Sol, an amulet would take the Solar Ray in the ring, focus it into a spell, and then the spell would use that energy as fuel. With Sol in particular there are lots of things you could do, such as a general protection amulet, an amulet to make you more noticeable and charismatic, or even an amulet to regulate body heat and keep you warmer when out in the cold (bit trickier, but doable). To offer another personal example, I have a white jade doughnut pendant that I have literally not taken off for years. It was charged with a particular energy relevant to white jade, and then that is applied to influence my consciousness so that I am more spiritually aware. It becomes further consecrated when I do spiritual exercises, and it continues to exert aid me in meditation - not just to enter trance easier, but also to develop permanent change in my spirit. That is an amulet: something that works a specific purpose, directing the energy that is present in a talismanic object.

So: a talisman is any object that is magically charged or consecrated, intentionally or not. An amulet is any object that is magically charged or consecrated to intentionally serve a purpose, such as protection as is most common.

I'm not sure what you mean by the character of the material changing, so unless you can elaborate on that point more, I can't really say there is much of a difference. A stone on its own has its own natural energy. A stone that has been turned into a talisman has its own energy, and been charged with an energy relevant to it through consecration (elemental forces, planetary rays, zodiacal rays, runes, etc) - energy that exerts influence due to its natural properties, not due to human programming. A stone that has been turned into an amulet has its own energy, and that energy has been charged further and directed to serve a specific purpose, indicated by specific intent.

But the stone itself is pretty much the same all around. It's just how its applied that matters. A gun used by a hungry farmer to hunt a deer is the same as a gun used by a murderer enraged by something. The gun itself is effectively the same, it's how it is used that indicates a significant difference.



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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by ThyNegative »

i think if you really can use stones for your magick, you can test them to see if they work or not. wouldn't that be more logical?
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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

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I wouldn't call I can't hold a charge leakage. I didn't realise hats what we were talking about. Cool.
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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by Neko-phyte »

Thank you to both Suba and RoseRed! I really appreciate it :)

and thank you to Shinichi for the amulet+talisman explanation. I haven't actually looked into it much yet, though I probably should! I've now realised I've been doing something similar to this all along.

I tend to keep a small pouch on me with a few gems inside, each programmed for a specific purpose, all gems included in harmony with each other. I guess that's something quite similar? Sometimes I'll switch them out if I need to redirect my focus. Gosh I need to do more research!

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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by RoseRed »

Similar? Very : )
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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by DarkSchneider »

If anyone is curious what my stones look like, this is what I do. I intend to sell them someday, if I decide to learn more elaborate patterns of wrapping stones.

http://i.imgur.com/fxl5DlD.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VQwk8MB.jpg
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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by RoseRed »

I think you did a lovely job. I'd be happy to purchase a couple necklaces from you when you get started.
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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by Neko-phyte »

RoseRed wrote:I think you did a lovely job. I'd be happy to purchase a couple necklaces from you when you get started.
Yes! Nice job! I'm terrible at wrapping, but if you ever need supplies I am happy to send you things. :)

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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by DarkSchneider »

Thanks guys :) I'm not sure about how to go about mail orders yet, but I'm about to call the Gem Club of Montreal today.

I might get a membership for $20, and they will charge $1 every time I got in to use their stuff.

If I were to sell my necklaces and other sorts of jewelry, I'd like to try simple street vending, a common practice in town. But you need a permit. However, mail orders wouldn't be a bad idea either :D
"...You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints—know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world." -Anton LaVey

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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

Post by RoseRed »

oof - Montreal? I didn't realize you were in Canada. I'm in the states. Does anyone know about international shipping between the two?
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Re: Gemstones with drilled holes, are they still magickal?

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I'm not sure as now, the mailing system has changed here. We have such infrequent use of mail, that public boxes with keys are going to be used for our mail. Thankfully mine isn't far from my house.

I'll look into it soon.
"...You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints—know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world." -Anton LaVey

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