Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

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Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

Post by Clockwork Ghost »

Stay as motionless as possible and begin to deliberately make the breathing slower and deeper. The aim is to use the entire capacity of the lungs but without any undue muscular effort or strain. The lungs may be held empty or full between exhalation and inhalation to lengthen the cycle. The important thing is that the mind should direct it’s complete attention to the breath cycle. When this can be done for thirty minutes, proceed to not-thinking.
The trick with this exercise is not to count whilst breathing like other methods teach you to. This isn't 4/2 breathing, you don't breathe in to the count of four and hold it to the count of two, you simply breathe in, stop, then breathe out. Go for natural, deep breathing - focus on the feeling of the air entering and then leaving your body. Your breathing will naturally slow as your blood becomes more oxygenated.

Try to focus your mind solely on your breath. Combine this discipline with Motionlessness to create a state of hyper-focus - nothing should move except your mouth, nose, and chest. Try alternating the way you breathe to develop a deeper conscious focus on the breaths you are taking - breathe in through your mouth, out through your nose, then switch - try to make the act of breathing become absolutely everything.

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Maya The Generator
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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

Post by Maya The Generator »

I quit smoking 2 months ago, my lungs are quiet mess but I was diving a lot when I was younger and Taekwondo too helped me develop good lungs. Everything destroyed in last 3-4 years of lazyness and not giving a crap about my body. BUT I tried today this practice and my little problem is that I have big lungs that could inhale all the air in the univerese and 60kg body that is 2 meters high. After 2 minutes of deep breaths I am high. I feel tingling in my fingers and all over my body. Hyperventilation is not a thing I like very much. My breath slows down after breaking limit of feeling normal but thats doesnt help as I feel like I just get more and more oxygen. I am working currently on my body but It is hard for me to make some muscles because of overactive thyroid. If you need more info, just ask.
Illusion is the first of the pleasures.
The bomb of entropic chaos.
If some assholes levels a twelve gauge your way, you drain him, skin him and bash in his skull. Self-preservation is vital part of humanity after all. My favorite part, in fact
My mind is telling me NOOO but my BODY, MY BODY is telling me YEAS

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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

Post by Clockwork Ghost »

The key here is to try to start off breathing naturally and then to slow down. As you slow, you will breathe deeper, but the space between the breaths will also become longer, levelling out the effects of more oxygen in your bloodstream. Remember - this discipline builds upon motionlessness, to fully achieve a good outcome here you shouldn't be moving anything except your mouth, your nose, and your chest. Starting off with deep breaths will simply cause you to twitch uncontrollably as your body becomes oxygen drunk.

I tried this last night, but my mind wandered too much as a result of lack of focus. By the time I drew my attention back to my breathing it had become ragged and uneven. Went for maybe eight minutes motionless and breathing evenly.

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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

Post by Eremita »

I managed 15 minutes of deep breathing this morning. I was not totally motionless as in the first exercise, having to subtly shift my posture a couple of times, and stop at 15 minutes because I was experiencing back and neck pain. I attempted this in the university library, and the couch wasn't particularly comfortable. I was also somewhat distracted by a conversation happening behind me.

I recommend a good chair, or lying down for this one. Having your back and abdomen/chest straight and unconstricted helps a lot.

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Maya The Generator
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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

Post by Maya The Generator »

My current breathing is very shallow. Only when I focus I fill 100% of my lungs. But I will try today to better control quanity of oxygen in my body. I wanted after lesson one today make lesson two but my phone didn't give me best time so I will do it properly this evening. I must say I love the idea of school. It is 100% better to have others perspective on things and keeps me motivated(note: Not like my teenage self, ekhem!)

Praise teh Sun [cool]
Illusion is the first of the pleasures.
The bomb of entropic chaos.
If some assholes levels a twelve gauge your way, you drain him, skin him and bash in his skull. Self-preservation is vital part of humanity after all. My favorite part, in fact
My mind is telling me NOOO but my BODY, MY BODY is telling me YEAS

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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

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29 and a half minutes of deep breathing managed this evening (not even kidding LOL - half a freaking minute under!). Relented due to upper back and neck pain. If I attempt this exercise again I must do so lying down.

It is a very warm evening in Australia again. The concentration required had me sweating fairly constantly after about 10-15 minutes in. This has been quite an interesting revelation, as it never occurred to me how much mental energy these exercises actually take. Just sitting at my computer and reading, typing, listening to music, whatever - these activities do not cause me to sweat in such a way as these exercises have.

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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

Post by Eremita »

Despite maintaining the exercise for a fairly long period, I do not feel that success was achieved, owing to this fact:
Peter Carroll wrote: The important thing is that the mind should direct it’s complete attention to the breath cycle.
The presence of back pain and uncomfortably high temperature prevented me from focusing undivided attention on my breath. I continued to breathe deeply, but the process was strained and I feel I attained little benefit as a result.

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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

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Eremita, you are doing extremely well - don't give up! Like you said, these disciplines seem so easy from an outside perspective, but in practice they require a great deal of concentration to fully achieve. I've been doing Liber MMM every day for six years, and I find each discipline still rather tricky to fully perform to a high degree of success on a regular basis. I've founf the key is to first make sure you are as comfortable as you can be, then to achieve motionlessness without worrying about breathing. Once you feel relaxed and still, dirct your concentration fully to your breathing, and hyper-visualise it as a complete living thing - an all encompasing act that takes up your entire body. Feel the air enter your body, feel it as it moves down your throat and into your lungs. Feel the swell of your lungs, and the reaction from your body. Make the breath your entire world, your body your entire universe. [thumbup]

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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

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I managed twenty minutes of meditative breathing this morning. At one point I felt a strange loss of reality, and found myself on an old sailing ship. My breathing became the waves, my body the boat. I even heard sea gulls, and the glint of sun on sea. Upon the boat were the three fishermen who were my guides recently, their eyes replaced by paua shell pieces. The grandfather, father, and son stood on the forecastle of the ship, their clothes dripping with sea water, their faces marked with salt.

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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

Post by Eremita »

Jeez, that sounds amazing. Was it as relaxing as it sounds? Did the sailors communicate with you?

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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

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35 minutes of motionless deep breathing achieved this evening. I made this attempt lying on my back on my bed without a pillow in only underwear (no more summer sweats for me [rofl]). I feel this position is far better than a sitting position for reaching the 30 minute goal. I set my radio to turn on so I would know when the time was reached, and gave it another 5 minutes for good measure.

I found it easier to take full, deep breaths in this position. The body is also more readily relaxed, and staying motionless is therefore easier.

I drifted close to sleep at one point - I see this as the only potential downside of meditating in bed, though once I brought myself back to focus, I was in a very pleasant zone.

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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

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Eremita wrote:Jeez, that sounds amazing. Was it as relaxing as it sounds? Did the sailors communicate with you?
Yeah, was very relaxing indeed - the hallucination was extremely vivid and encompassing. The three fishermen were a trio of ghosts I contacted recently while working with Tangaroa. They were once real people, killed in a boating accident. The son was trapped in the boat when it went down, and his father drowned going back to save him. The old man was asleep, and never woke up. I was rather drastic when I evoked them, and carved their names into my leg with a scalpel. So I could better work with them, I then rubbed powdered caustic soda into the cuts.

They don't say anything - I have seen them on several occasions. Once they manifested at the foot of my bed, and just watched me for a while - they are extremely sad, yet the father is proud in a way - he feels almost vindicated in death that he didn't save himself and sacrifice his son. The old man is half senile - I don't think he even knows he's dead. They herald periods of turbulent storms, and the coming of messages borne by gulls.

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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

Post by Eremita »

Wow.

I don't want to risk dragging this thread too off topic, but I'm interested to know what your thoughts are on ghosts generally. You mentioned that the oldest man is senile and doesn't realise he's dead - does this suggest that people who die with, for example, Alzheimer's disease are unable to move on? Or is the figure you are in communication with some sort of residue of the original man, who presumably ceased to exist in that form a long time ago?

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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

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Eremita wrote:Wow.

I don't want to risk dragging this thread too off topic, but I'm interested to know what your thoughts are on ghosts generally. You mentioned that the oldest man is senile and doesn't realise he's dead - does this suggest that people who die with, for example, Alzheimer's disease are unable to move on? Or is the figure you are in communication with some sort of residue of the original man, who presumably ceased to exist in that form a long time ago?
I believe in echoes in space-time, these echoes continuing through time due to their corporeal bodies having no movement through space any longer. The echoes accelerate until they reach the speed of light, and we no longer see them. I don't believe in ghosts in the truest sense of the word - more an energy signature that's left when the soul departs the body, a process that is scientifically measurable as the human body loses a small quantity of mass immediately upon death.

These aren't ghosts, they're summoned spirits. I called them from the sea, and Tangaroa gave them to me for a while. They act as guides from time to time, but I must give them back to Tangaroa eventually, at which point they will rest once more. The boy knows he is dead, and is terrified. The father also knows that he is a spirit, but his role is still to protect his son. The old man's thoughts are clouded, and reflect only dreams of days long gone.

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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

Post by Maya The Generator »

Clockwork_Ghost wrote:I believe in echoes in space-time, these echoes continuing through time due to their corporeal bodies having no movement through space any longer. The echoes accelerate until they reach the speed of light, and we no longer see them. I don't believe in ghosts in the truest sense of the word - more an energy signature that's left when the soul departs the body, a process that is scientifically measurable as the human body loses a small quantity of mass immediately upon death.
Thank you so much! I wanted to make post like that but lack of skill(the harderest! [crazy] ) made me abandon my quest(just kidding, I am hyped by you guys but I lacked time in work to post that xD) but I would never make it that cool!

TOPIC:I start to slow down my breath faster(english stronk from me, I know, you don't have to thank me). Yesterday I was Very aware of my breath for 7 minutes. I chocked on saliva which disrupted everything(yeah, my cat wanted to hang me after breaking her evening nap :( ) It was my first time to experience this kind of focus as everything that is connected with body of mine is now my obssesion. It was very calming and deep feeling but I lack of proper words to express it.

Only thing I know that would fit the feeling of this practice is "mind flow with breath".

Praise teh Sun [cool]
Illusion is the first of the pleasures.
The bomb of entropic chaos.
If some assholes levels a twelve gauge your way, you drain him, skin him and bash in his skull. Self-preservation is vital part of humanity after all. My favorite part, in fact
My mind is telling me NOOO but my BODY, MY BODY is telling me YEAS

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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

Post by Clockwork Ghost »

Friday I combined Breathing with Motionlessness, achieving a good 15 minutes steady breathing while in a motionless state. This morning I couldn't get comfortable motionless, and never got started with the Breathing discipline. I will try again tomorrow.

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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

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I was really depressed today, and never really got into the exercise. I wrote a lot of very dark poetry and stuck it in my Deviant Art folder. Eventually just found myself breathing steady and went with it - managed twelve minutes. How's everyone else doing? Don't give up guys, things are going to start getting really freaky next discipline...

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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

Post by Eremita »

Sorry to hear you aren't feeling well, Ghost!

I did about 15 minutes of breathing on Friday, though I forgot to write in.

This evening I managed 18 minutes in a sitting position, which was really nice. My right thigh was resting on my left foot, which began to go numb at around that point so I stood up. I also had what seemed like unusually chaotic thoughts thoughts buzzing around while trying to focus on the breathing. I put this down in part to being tired after the weekend.

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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

Post by Maya The Generator »

Mobile device info from field: lot of work and party after! Didn't have will to train more than 15 minutes after all that. More work incoming so I dunno how often I will post. My focus was bad but I felt a lot better after practice. I have a funny feeling in middle of forehead. [rofl]

keep up ur work
aaaaand Praise teh Sun [cool]
Illusion is the first of the pleasures.
The bomb of entropic chaos.
If some assholes levels a twelve gauge your way, you drain him, skin him and bash in his skull. Self-preservation is vital part of humanity after all. My favorite part, in fact
My mind is telling me NOOO but my BODY, MY BODY is telling me YEAS

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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

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4 minutes of motionless.
There is no Lucifer to folow, no God to obey
There is no Hell for punishment, no Heaven for reward
There are no Demons to fear, no Angels to listen
There is you and your fate
Wake up Alice
You are in Truthland.

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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

Post by Eremita »

Only managed 10 minutes this evening, and this with two interruptions. First I needed to shift my position due to back pain/pressure - a couple of minutes later I sneezed. Discomfort caused me to relent entirely 10 minutes in. I attempted this in a seating position on my bed; I was too tired to try it lying down.

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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

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Fifteen minutes Breathing, starting ten minutes into Motionlessness. This is starting to get much easier - finding the positions that allow for the longest spells of motionlessness, where I don't get sore.

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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

Post by Maya The Generator »

My main goal was to archive 15 minutes of motionless and breathing pratice. Now I try to earn some more time for longer sessions. I started going to swimming pool and I need to share that after physical workout this exercise is easier to do(for me [eg] ). Maybe I will try to do same exercise in the mornings and after work.

Today I manage to keep focus on breath for 14 min, after that time I started daydreaming a little. Thought I would just relax and prepere for work. Every day is easier and more motivating. I get a feeling my mind is sharper. I became more focused on some matters thanks to reworking myself. [yay]

Keep good work guys
Praise teh Sun [cool]
Illusion is the first of the pleasures.
The bomb of entropic chaos.
If some assholes levels a twelve gauge your way, you drain him, skin him and bash in his skull. Self-preservation is vital part of humanity after all. My favorite part, in fact
My mind is telling me NOOO but my BODY, MY BODY is telling me YEAS

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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

Post by Solarus »

Shoot I didn't see we were onto discipline 2 until today lol I know what I'll be trying tonight...

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Re: Liber MMM discussion - Discipline 2: Breathing

Post by Haelos »

I'm late getting started to both of the first two lessons, but I figured I would report in before moving on to the next lesson.

I have been practicing these techniques for several years now, and even with all of my practice, I could be better. This is the work of a life time to master.
I meditate for at least two hours before going to bed every night. I use meditations to combat my insomnia.
Motionlessness is most difficult for me. It takes about five minutes of fussing and adjusting before starting for me to remain a constant stillness for any extended period of time. If I try to just meditate without getting comfortable first, I manage about five minutes of not moving if I'm lucky.
When I properly prepare myself ahead of time, I've managed an hour without moving, but a good estimated average is about 15-20 minutes.
I usually get attacked with extremely powerful itches on my body, that cause me to lunge myself up to scratch it with no forethought in resisting the itch.

As for breathing control, I think I've pretty much gotten this down.
I use the mantra "So Hum" to focus my attention immediately to my breath. After using this mantra enough times, I've removed the pin, and it takes almost no effort to focus my breath work in a calming manner. I found a good spot in my lungs that I can keep them constantly half full and half empty, and I was also a band geek, so I'm well aware of proper breathing technique needed.
I practice proper and intentional breathing constantly. I don't breathe to any specific count, just what feels comfortable, but I try to keep at least part of my attention focused on breathing from my diaphragm, and energetically, at all times of the day.
I'm a smoker, so my lungs are quite damaged, and I need to constantly practice breathing control to even retain the ability to slow my breathing down.

Using the mantra that I use, it also allows for an easy transition into not-thinking, because after a certain point, the words of the mantra just dissolve to nothing inside my head, and it leads to that split second of gnosis I'm looking for.

After this point, I'll attempt to record better progress for daily or bi-daily updates.
This was the first day I was on this board.

A note on proper breathing as well, I've always read to breath in through the nose, and out through the mouth. So really, the only things that should be moving on your body are your nostrils, your chest cavity (lungs, ribs, diaphragm), and your tongue (because you ought to keep your mouth open, and simply press the tip of your tongue to the roof of your mouth as you inhale.)
If your stomach rises higher than your chest when you breath in, you're doing it incorrectly.
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