The goddess Kali
The goddess Kali
Has anyone ever worked with the goddess Kali?
What are your experiences?
I'm thinking about invoking or (most likely) evoking her, but I'm really not sure about it.
I had experiences only with Maat (she didn't like me, but it was obvious - I'm a cunning mage, after all) and with Lakshmi (I only evoked her, and not even her true form, just a "copy").
I want to evoke or invoke a dark, yet loving goddess (I've always felt more comfortable to work and interact with women than men, I don't know why).
The other candidate is Nyx.
What do you think?
What are your experiences?
I'm thinking about invoking or (most likely) evoking her, but I'm really not sure about it.
I had experiences only with Maat (she didn't like me, but it was obvious - I'm a cunning mage, after all) and with Lakshmi (I only evoked her, and not even her true form, just a "copy").
I want to evoke or invoke a dark, yet loving goddess (I've always felt more comfortable to work and interact with women than men, I don't know why).
The other candidate is Nyx.
What do you think?
"Nothing is true. Everything is permitted."
- cyberdemon
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Re: The goddess Kali
Kali's tongue is weird. She's very Astaroth, I think. Good luck, post results.
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Re: The goddess Kali
You mean: Kali = Astaroth = Ashtoreth = Astarte = Ishtar?cyberdemon wrote:Kali's tongue is weird. She's very Astaroth, I think. Good luck, post results.
And what's wrong with the tongue?
Does it really matter?
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- the_spiral
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Re: The goddess Kali
It's a side note but this type of syncretism really bothers me.You mean: Kali = Astaroth = Ashtoreth = Astarte = Ishtar?
And one of my teachers was a devotee of Kali and told me both her fearsome and loving qualities can be intense and overwhelming, and it's important to do purification rituals before invoking or making puja for her. If she begins to influence your life expect HUGE and rapid changes, many of which appear negative at first (disorientation, nightmares etc.) but are her way of throwing your fears and delusions back in your face so you can battle them, put them to rest and move on with your evolution. The Black Faced Mother demands a lot from her children, but no one will protect them with more ferocity. She loves incense, skulls, candles and red flowers, especially hibiscus. Good luck and Om Kali Ma!
"Follow the path of the radiant life force as she flashes upward like lightning through your body." - Vijanabhairava Tantra
- cyberdemon
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Re: The goddess Kali
Possibly. I believe in the Singularity theory, which extrapolates to every soul/entity being a reincarnation of the One, so every female goddess is equivalent to each other as well as every male god equivalent to each other etc etc.. It's a confusing thing even for me anyway. I won't argue that each deity can have vastly different traits from one another, though.the_spiral wrote:It's a side note but this type of syncretism really bothers me.You mean: Kali = Astaroth = Ashtoreth = Astarte = Ishtar?
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Re: The goddess Kali
This information is very helpful; thank you, the_spiral!the_spiral wrote:It's a side note but this type of syncretism really bothers me.You mean: Kali = Astaroth = Ashtoreth = Astarte = Ishtar?
And one of my teachers was a devotee of Kali and told me both her fearsome and loving qualities can be intense and overwhelming, and it's important to do purification rituals before invoking or making puja for her. If she begins to influence your life expect HUGE and rapid changes, many of which appear negative at first (disorientation, nightmares etc.) but are her way of throwing your fears and delusions back in your face so you can battle them, put them to rest and move on with your evolution. The Black Faced Mother demands a lot from her children, but no one will protect them with more ferocity. She loves incense, skulls, candles and red flowers, especially hibiscus. Good luck and Om Kali Ma!
Huhh - it's maybe just me, but I like these kind of loving, yet "crazy" goddesses.
Serious goddesses, like Maat, are pretty boring and don't really like me (I wonder why? ).
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Re: The goddess Kali
Hmm...so how does the Singularity theory address the issue of cultural appropriation? Because I don't have a problem with the idea that different deities may be different facets or aspects of the same Divinity, but I've seen people end up with simplistic, distorted or surface-level understandings of spiritual traditions by lumping them together without recognizing their differences. I've also found some deities really dislike being equated with others or approached by people who don't take the time to get to know them, and are likely to either not show up or just mess with them and give them false information during invocations (and Kali is one of those with that reputation BTW). But maybe I'm just misunderstanding your paradigm since I'm not a chaote.cyberdemon wrote:Possibly. I believe in the Singularity theory, which extrapolates to every soul/entity being a reincarnation of the One, so every female goddess is equivalent to each other as well as every male god equivalent to each other etc etc.. It's a confusing thing even for me anyway. I won't argue that each deity can have vastly different traits from one another, though.the_spiral wrote:It's a side note but this type of syncretism really bothers me.You mean: Kali = Astaroth = Ashtoreth = Astarte = Ishtar?
Haqim, glad I could help! I think if you do manage to work with Kali, your path will be far from boring [thumbup]
"Follow the path of the radiant life force as she flashes upward like lightning through your body." - Vijanabhairava Tantra
- cyberdemon
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Re: The goddess Kali
You've pretty much answered your own question. The Singularity theory is broad-spectrum, it allows for differences between derivatives of the Singularity, just like you're almost certainly at least 80% different from me. I won't lie, I don't have enough research into each individual demon's name to concretely state who's not who.the_spiral wrote:Hmm...so how does the Singularity theory address the issue of cultural appropriation? Because I don't have a problem with the idea that different deities may be different facets or aspects of the same Divinity, but I've seen people end up with simplistic, distorted or surface-level understandings of spiritual traditions by lumping them together without recognizing their differences. I've also found some deities really dislike being equated with others or approached by people who don't take the time to get to know them, and are likely to either not show up or just mess with them and give them false information during invocations (and Kali is one of those with that reputation BTW). But maybe I'm just misunderstanding your paradigm since I'm not a chaote.
But for example if you look hard enough, you'll see Shiv's trident and Satan's pitchfork are the same thing, or Shiv's cobra draws parallels with Lucifer in the form of the Serpent of Eden.. yet completely it's all completely different because of the two different cultures that they went into.
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- hyperion5225
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Re: The goddess Kali
yes actually, Kali is the only deity to ever respond to me that quick and strong. but let me tell you what, your setting your self up for some crazy times man. my first experience was invoking during meditation, i was devoured whole and "reborn" as a child. i would suggest using a mantra to align with her for a few days prior, om Kali ma / om krim Kali work well. also you get what you put in with her , approach her as a child and you will find your mother, fear a big scary goddess and you will get a big scary goddess. but Kali is great once you get to know her.
hail chaos and have fun
hail chaos and have fun
hail chaos and have fun
Re: The goddess Kali
Thank you hyperion5225, that was really helpful!hyperion5225 wrote:yes actually, Kali is the only deity to ever respond to me that quick and strong. but let me tell you what, your setting your self up for some crazy times man. my first experience was invoking during meditation, i was devoured whole and "reborn" as a child. i would suggest using a mantra to align with her for a few days prior, om Kali ma / om krim Kali work well. also you get what you put in with her , approach her as a child and you will find your mother, fear a big scary goddess and you will get a big scary goddess. but Kali is great once you get to know her.
hail chaos and have fun
Actually, I haven't started to work with Kali (yet), but I downloaded her mantra and I really like it.
Does this count as Kali-worship?
But seriously: Does her mantra have any (positive!) effect?
(Please do remember: first I was talking about invocations and evocations, not about mantras - that's why I asked you this.)
"Nothing is true. Everything is permitted."
- the_spiral
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Re: The goddess Kali
I agree with hyperion5225 that doing mantra work with her prior to invocation is a good idea. I'd also recommend grounding and cleansing meditations and maybe even setting up a small altar for her. And the "child to mother" thing is no joke, Kali is very possessive of her devotees and you may find yourself unable or uninterested to work with other goddesses if she takes an interest in you! Since we're in the Kali Yuga (Aeon of Kali) right now, I personally believe her energy is more powerful than ever and anyone who's sincerely looking for her WILL find her. This is going on with a friend of mine right now; she began working with Kali and her life is suddenly a crazy roller coaster with her deepest fears powerfully manifesting lately. She's freaking out right now, but I have faith the long-term effects will assist in her spiritual evolution. Anyway, I'm excited to hear your results!
"Follow the path of the radiant life force as she flashes upward like lightning through your body." - Vijanabhairava Tantra
- hyperion5225
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Re: The goddess Kali
Glad to be a help my good sir or madame, and yeah it might count as worship, but its realy just getting a relationship up and running. a puja is closer to worship , om kali ma will be like calling her on the phone and saying good morning , om krim kali is good if you want to open up and lower energy if your into that , when i started useing it my solar plexus vibrated and felt like electricity ran through it. it is the root mantra for kali if i understand corectly, also one you use it for a while and actuly evoke her , she will take away your fear, or atleast let you know that some minor demon /spirit / jiin is not much to worry about with her on your side . i agree with the spiral that clenseing before hand is a good idea, but i wouldent banish after , just for good mannors .but yeah thats about as much as i know about her, i have only been with her for a moth ish now , but its a relly fun time
hail chaos and have fun
hail chaos and have fun
hail chaos and have fun
Re: The goddess Kali
Wow!
Thank you, everyone!
Ok, this question will surely sound a bit weird, but I'll ask it anyway: Does Kali need anything else besides simple worship?
I mean: from a chaos magic perspective, gods need attention, which is energy.
They feed on worship.
So besides the obvious - does Kali need anything else?
Why does she need worshippers?
Thank you, everyone!
Ok, this question will surely sound a bit weird, but I'll ask it anyway: Does Kali need anything else besides simple worship?
I mean: from a chaos magic perspective, gods need attention, which is energy.
They feed on worship.
So besides the obvious - does Kali need anything else?
Why does she need worshippers?
"Nothing is true. Everything is permitted."
- Deathquota
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Re: The goddess Kali
It's really strange, sometimes posts seem to occur at such a convenient time and synchronous with my life events and interests. Basically I have dedicated myself to Kali recently, and been reciting mantras and words of praise to her. When you give energy to Kali, you also give energy to speed and liberation. I just learned the hard way, that it gets extremely dangerous really quickly to your life style and sanity. All this has taught me is that I only exist as I know myself because of habit. If all the static constants were destroyed: my routine, my location, my beliefs, I would cease to be the same person. It is stranger that life can be "mundane" rather than a fantastic, chaotic, and an enjoyable mess. And I personally believe that Kali interacted with me, and existed before I acknowledged her.Haqim wrote:Wow!
I mean: from a chaos magic perspective, gods need attention, which is energy.
They feed on worship.
So besides the obvious - does Kali need anything else?
Why does she need worshippers?
This summarizes the initial experience as a whole for me. To answer your question: I think that Kali demands commitment because she was a violent, quick, and much needed awakening in my life. Expect much pain. Oh yes, things can't all be pleasant and your own way. She's the first relationship with a God that has really "worked" with me. It's exciting that more and more people are finding her. Perhaps it has to do with humanity's state today, but I digress.i was devoured whole and "reborn" as a child
Studying tantra with my entire soul right now, If you mind.
- ultimafool
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Re: The goddess Kali
The Kali of the Kali-Yuga is not the goddess Kali. The goddess Kali (pronounced kah-lee, long vowels) is a deity of time and death and birth, somewhat like Saturn. The Kali of the current yuga (pronounced kay-li, short vowels) is a male demon of chaos and suffering. According to the wiki entry, in the Kalki Puran, he is personified as the source of all evil. Might be important to know the difference between the two if you want to work with either.the_spiral wrote:Since we're in the Kali Yuga (Aeon of Kali) right now, I personally believe her energy is more powerful than ever and anyone who's sincerely looking for her WILL find her. This is going on with a friend of mine right now; she began working with Kali and her life is suddenly a crazy roller coaster with her deepest fears powerfully manifesting lately. She's freaking out right now, but I have faith the long-term effects will assist in her spiritual evolution. Anyway, I'm excited to hear your results!
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Re: The goddess Kali
I got through maybe half of Jan Fries' Kali Kaula and had to jump to something else (nothing wrong with the book - just on hiatus for now) and I can't help Kabbaling/Qabalizing her.
When I see all the heads and fingers she has as necklaces I vividly see a parallel to Father Time as the grim reaper in a particular vintage NYE poster - the one where the years to come are depicted as a line of children being lead to the slaughter. In that sense she seems to make for an incredibly Saturnian Binah - and it makes me wonder whether there might be something more global to the linkage between Mother Goddess and Saturn than just an Alexandrian Platonist filing cabinet.
When I see all the heads and fingers she has as necklaces I vividly see a parallel to Father Time as the grim reaper in a particular vintage NYE poster - the one where the years to come are depicted as a line of children being lead to the slaughter. In that sense she seems to make for an incredibly Saturnian Binah - and it makes me wonder whether there might be something more global to the linkage between Mother Goddess and Saturn than just an Alexandrian Platonist filing cabinet.
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Re: The goddess Kali
Yes, you're totally correct! I brain farted on that one (and don't work with either personally, although I have several friends/teachers in India who work with her):ultimafool wrote:The Kali of the Kali-Yuga is not the goddess Kali. The goddess Kali (pronounced kah-lee, long vowels) is a deity of time and death and birth, somewhat like Saturn. The Kali of the current yuga (pronounced kay-li, short vowels) is a male demon of chaos and suffering. According to the wiki entry, in the Kalki Puran, he is personified as the source of all evil. Might be important to know the difference between the two if you want to work with either.the_spiral wrote:Since we're in the Kali Yuga (Aeon of Kali) right now, I personally believe her energy is more powerful than ever and anyone who's sincerely looking for her WILL find her. This is going on with a friend of mine right now; she began working with Kali and her life is suddenly a crazy roller coaster with her deepest fears powerfully manifesting lately. She's freaking out right now, but I have faith the long-term effects will assist in her spiritual evolution. Anyway, I'm excited to hear your results!
Sadhguru gives a thorough explanation of the four yugas for those who are interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAgd5KS-ULc#t=116. And Robert Svoboda and several others have floated the theory that the goddess Kali is manifesting more strongly in Western cultures lately, presumably to draw in new devotees: http://www.drsvoboda.com/kali.htm
And Cybernetic_Jazz, there are also some interesting parallels between Kali Ma and Aida Hwedo, the Rainbow Serpent of the Fon/Dahomeyan pantheon, who is also associated in some accounts with Saturnian cycles of time. So...possibility of an African connection as well?
Last edited by the_spiral on Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- ultimafool
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Re: The goddess Kali
It happens to the best of us!the_spiral wrote: Yes, you're totally correct! I brain farted on that one (and don't work with either of them personally, although I have several friends/teachers in India who work with her):
I've noticed this as well. It seems westerners of both genders are fascinated with this mysterious, seductive, horrifying, paradoxical deity. I did a bit of work with Kali and Ganesha in my early days and they both still hold a special place in my heart. That reminds me... Although there may have been other factors involved, I would recommend getting in good with Ganesha if you're working with Kali - he seemed to make the ride a little less bumpy if that makes sense.the_spiral wrote: Sadhguru gives a thorough explanation of the four yugas for those who are interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAgd5KS-ULc#t=1160
And Robert Svoboda and several other Western occultists have floated the theory that the goddess Kali is manifesting more strongly in Western cultures lately, presumably to draw in new devotees: http://www.drsvoboda.com/kali.htm
I think so, Cybernetic_Jazz. It seems that initiates from many cultures throughout history encountered the same forces, which only lends to their independent veracity. These forces are real. The differences between the various deities are culturally manufactured - variations seen through the filters of geography and language. Discovering these correspondences can help to enrich our knowledge and thereby enrich our experiences and relationships with theses forces. That being said, the differences shouldn't be ignored, especially when working with living deities, like Kali. She still has a huge following in the East and might not take to kindly to being mashed up with some obscure, forgotten Egyptian gods or fictional characters or whathaveyou. It's all about respect I suppose.Cybernetic_Jazz wrote:I got through maybe half of Jan Fries' Kali Kaula and had to jump to something else (nothing wrong with the book - just on hiatus for now) and I can't help Kabbaling/Qabalizing her.
When I see all the heads and fingers she has as necklaces I vividly see a parallel to Father Time as the grim reaper in a particular vintage NYE poster - the one where the years to come are depicted as a line of children being lead to the slaughter. In that sense she seems to make for an incredibly Saturnian Binah - and it makes me wonder whether there might be something more global to the linkage between Mother Goddess and Saturn than just an Alexandrian Platonist filing cabinet.
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Re: The goddess Kali
Kali aka Kundalini is very dangerous if you are not ready for her.
I would not encourage anyone to toy with her unless she is calling your name so loud you cannot ignore it.
I would not encourage anyone to toy with her unless she is calling your name so loud you cannot ignore it.
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Re: The goddess Kali
One question I might ask of some who've thought these matters over; would you consider Kali and Babalon fundamentally the same entity, one an Eastern version and one a western? I'd consider Babalon a 3-5-7 goddess (or Goddess if you're Thelemic) and I can see the 3 and 5 with Kali but I don't know if there's any tradition of her having a Venus/Aphrodite/Ishtar/Astarte role to make her a 7 as well.
(in case that might have been cryptic my numbers are spheres of the ToL)
(in case that might have been cryptic my numbers are spheres of the ToL)
You don't have to do a thing perfect, just relentlessly.