The Contending of Horus and Set

[Hadit]

This is a basic story in both Egyptian mythology as well as modern, western occultism. Here is a brief overview if you are unfamiliar, or if you need a memory jog. Note that there are many versions of this story, but they follow this general path. First there are three important siblings – Isis, Osiris, and Set – all born to the goddess Nuit. However, Set is the last of these to come through, and he enters the cosmos by tearing his way in through the side of Nuit. Eventually Set kills Osiris by locking him in a coffin, and later chopping him into numerous pieces. Isis then finds these pieces, and uses the phallus to impregnate herself with Horus. Horus grows up to challenge his uncle Set, with Horus ripping of Set’s testicles, and Set ripping out one of Horus’ eyes. Set then tries to rape Horus, after which Horus, well, masturbates onto Set’s food. To prove he has penetrated Set, the seed rises to Set’s forehead, becoming the moon god of wisdom, Thoth. Eventually Set is brought under control by Isis, Horus, and Thoth, and attains a role in protecting the gods, all of whom carry his Was scepter.

There is a hell of a lot of occult information in there. Let’s begin.

Isis and Osiris are born to Nuit (the sky) and Geb (the Earth) through “natural means”. Metaphorically this is through Nuit giving birth to the siblings. How this is meant in reality is quite debatable. It seems to me that there was Order, and Isis and Osiris came about as part of that order. In other words, Isis and Osiris are natural. Set is not. Instead of coming to exist in a natural way, Set tears his way into the Order from Outside. It is important to realize that the Egyptian believed in the idea of “primordial chaos” existing before order arose, meaning that there was a duality between the order of the universe and the Chaos outside. Myth seems to imply that Set came from Chaos and tore his way into Order aggressively. This is supported by some of Set’s numerous attributes, including the god of outsiders and foreigners, the god of storms, the desert, war, domination, strength, and so on. Therefore, Set can be seen in almost a gnostic sense, he is to Chaos what the gnostic Christ is to the Light, with order/the demiurge separating the two.

Next, we must realize that only through his murder does Osiris become a god in the first place, the god of resurrection and the afterlife. Set comes in and makes Osiris a deity, and without Set’s presence Osiris would never have been a god at all. This already makes Set extremely more important than he is commonly viewed. Further, it is only through the magical, post-mortem sex of Isis that she had her magical child, Horus. Isis would never have become a mother, nor would Horus have ever been born in the first place, if Set had not come into being. Indeed, even if Osiris and Isis had a child, he would have never become Pharaoh unless Set had killed Osiris anyways. Set is absolutely necessary to the equation. To make Set even more powerful of an entity, he steals Horus’ eye. The symbolism here is obvious and powerful, that Set stole the Sight of the magical child, the Sight of the Pharaoh. On top of being a Gnostic savior of Chaos, he also has the sight of the Pharaoh.

The sexual aspect of the story has two important parts. First, it shows Set as a gods associated with non-traditional sex. That is, Set is associated with homosexuality, through both anal sex and oral sex, as well as “domination” or even rape, in that he attacks Horus, all of which is condemned in various books of coming forth by day. Second, the mixing of Set and Horus brings about Thoth, the god of wisdom. In all this combat there was no actual thought, just two forces battling. It was only when the two forces brought forth Thoth that balance was struck. This makes perfect sense, as Thoth was a god of mediation, and all was the one who created the equations of the cosmos.

It seems to me that modern occultism, with its incessant need to remain solar based, completely misses and diminishes the role Set plays in Egyptian mysticism. Without him there would be no proper gods, no universe as we know it at all. Yet we prefer to demonize and shun him and his various avatars, even in occultism. Perhaps we should reconsider.

[the_spiral]

Thanks for providing this overview. Although I wanted to note there's some differing in interpretations of the El-Lahun papyrus as to whether said salad masturbation caused the birth of Thoth or whether he mediated the conflict between Set and Horus. Either way I think your over-arching point is true in that occultists often get caught up in the trappings of dualism and feel compelled to "pick a side", when in reality the balancing of both light and dark forces is necessary for spiritual progression.

[cactusjack543]

Thanks for providing this overview. Although I wanted to note there's some differing in interpretations of the El-Lahun papyrus as to whether said salad masturbation caused the birth of Thoth or whether he mediated the conflict between Set and Horus. Either way I think your over-arching point is true in that occultists often get caught up in the trappings of dualism and feel compelled to "pick a side", when in reality the balancing of both light and dark forces is necessary for spiritual progression.

may I ask you a question I only collect dark forces so as to heal them.... seems id say hello to evil how his day is even off earth for I do not dare bother good

[one-off]

I read numerous times that when set penetrated Horus it was through seduction not and attack and rape. Which makes sense because if set had the power to Rape Horus against his will then Horus wouldn't be able to actually fight and battle Set. Set would just kill him outright.

Now the eye. I've also read that the eye wasn't stolen but gouged out. Maybe he kept it... Anyway, the eye was then recreated by Hathor or Thoth and formed another deity. The female known as Wadjet The ancient Egyptian word Wadj signifies blue and green. It is also the name for the well known Eye of the Moon.

The all seeing eye. It's a goddess in itself and is the eye of another god.

This had me thinking about body parts a while ago. Cellular intelligence is something I'm going to put some study into in the future, but each cell has rules and functions that it carries out in order for our entire system to work. All of the cells in our body are alive, individually. You cut some living tissue away and supply it with the fuel it requires it'll survive independently of the body and subconsciousness. The organ of the eye...you know where I'm going.

Pretty crazy right? Not so much when you understand how the human body really works. The more I get into this occult stuff the more parallels I find with science. Science is just something that used to be called magic. haha, autonomous cells. Ancient symbols of snakes spinning around each other as the same double helix of dna. I don't want to make this post too long and off topic.

Where did you get your info that the penetration was a rape and not a seduction? That doesn't make any sense seeing as Horus was able to battle it out with Set on equal grounds.

[Hadit]

I've always seen it explained as rape, as Horus would never, under any circumstance, agree to sexual relations with Set.

[one-off]

Why wouldn't he? All things have both male and female energies within them. Regardless of gender. God's are no different. It makes sense that Set could seduce Horus. But, Horus being raped by someone who was of equal battle skills is highly unlikely.

Horus was dominated through seduction not force. That would indicate that Set was stronger than Horus, and could have defeated him during any one of the battles. Set couldn't prove that he was stronger than Horus through force which is why he resorted to the insemination to prove his dominance. Which came from a seduction not a rape. You can't rape someone who is capable of fighting you equally or even beating you.

[Hadit]

Why wouldn't he? All things have both male and female energies within them. Regardless of gender. God's are no different. It makes sense that Set could seduce Horus. But, Horus being raped by someone who was of equal battle skills is highly unlikely.

Horus was dominated through seduction not force. That would indicate that Set was stronger than Horus, and could have defeated him during any one of the battles. Set couldn't prove that he was stronger than Horus through force which is why he resorted to the insemination to prove his dominance. Which came from a seduction not a rape. You can't rape someone who is capable of fighting you equally or even beating you.

Whether Set raped or seduced/dominated Horus is actually irrelevant anyways.

[one-off]

I don't think any distinction of events is irrelevant. A rape implies characteristics that Set in fact Defeated Horus in combat in order to subdue him to the point where he could be raped. Which means Set is stronger than Horus.

A seduction indicated Horus willingly allowed himself to be penetrated for pleasure. It also sets the tone of seduction being the most powerful force in the universe. Especially because it is something that makes one go against their better judgement. Even a God.

Indicating that as a man looking for power and dominance he should study something like seductive arts along with whatever else he is doing.

Women as well. Women have a seductive advantages because they can leverage looks far more on men than men can leverage looks on women.

Two extremely different circumstances which should not be overlooked.

[Hadit]

I don't think any distinction of events is irrelevant. A rape implies characteristics that Set in fact Defeated Horus in combat in order to subdue him to the point where he could be raped. Which means Set is stronger than Horus.

A seduction indicated Horus willingly allowed himself to be penetrated for pleasure. It also sets the tone of seduction being the most powerful force in the universe. Especially because it is something that makes one go against their better judgement. Even a God.

Indicating that as a man looking for power and dominance he should study something like seductive arts along with whatever else he is doing.

Women as well. Women have a seductive advantages because they can leverage looks far more on men than men can leverage looks on women.

Two extremely different circumstances which should not be overlooked.

You ignore that Horus IS weaker than Set.

[one-off]

Where is it stated that Horus is weaker than Set? According to the texts Horus had many battles with Set with neither of them coming out as the victor. Then when Set took Horus's eye Horus took Set's testicle. Everything points to them being on par with each other.

[Hadit]

Where is it stated that Horus is weaker than Set? According to the texts Horus had many battles with Set with neither of them coming out as the victor. Then when Set took Horus's eye Horus took Set's testicle. Everything points to them being on par with each other.

Upper Egypt was the conqueror and uniter of Egypt.

[one-off]

So in your estimation because the people were able to do that and they worshiped Set it automatically made set stronger?

I don't think they correlates. I could be an non-believer and take a dagger and stab and kill a Set worshiper. That doesn't make me stronger than Set himself.

[Hadit]

So in your estimation because the people were able to do that and they worshiped Set it automatically made set stronger?

I don't think they correlates. I could be an non-believer and take a dagger and stab and kill a Set worshiper. That doesn't make me stronger than Set himself.

Egyptian mysticism wouldn't overlook the fact that the people of Set defeated Upper Egypt. Today we separate the gods from their people, but henotheistic religions wouldn't.

[one-off]

I'd much rather examine the battles that they specifically had vs the battles of their worshipers to determine who was stronger 1v1. Since we're taking this a measure of if Set was strong enough to rape Horus.

Horus was seduced. Set never defeated Horus 1v1 otherwise he would have just killed him there and then like he did Osiris.

[Hadit]

At the time Horus and Set did battle they were mindless forces, incapable of thought (Thoth did not exist). How could there be calculated seduction?

[one-off]

Oh...I could write you a book in response, but I'll keep it short.

Seduction is something thoughtless. If we even observe human seduction you can't make a woman want to sleep with you through pure logic. Most of seduction is counter intuitive. Urge and impulse driven. But, it has many forms.

I used to think it was all about trying to make a girl like me and impress her enough to sleep with me. way, way, off. That type of behavior actually turns most women off. Or at most put's you into this provider category in her mind where she intends to use you for your resources. This is courtship behavior. It's not the same thing as seduction.

In a more basic form when I started seducing women successfully my aim was to actually shut down and overpower her logical brain with other instinctive things and emotions. That got sex, but it was hard to transition into connections and relationships. Guys who use this method get lots of sex, but often women experience something called buyers remorse after her logical faculties return to her. They regret sleeping with the man.

I don't use such manipulative, and basic tactics anymore since just getting sex is really pointless at a certain point.

[Hadit]

Oh...I could write you a book in response, but I'll keep it short.

Seduction is something thoughtless. If we even observe human seduction you can't make a woman want to sleep with you through pure logic. Most of seduction is counter intuitive. Urge and impulse driven. But, it has many forms.

I used to think it was all about trying to make a girl like me and impress her enough to sleep with me. way, way, off. That type of behavior actually turns most women off. Or at most put's you into this provider category in her mind where she intends to use you for your resources. This is courtship behavior. It's not the same thing as seduction.

In a more basic form when I started seducing women successfully my aim was to actually shut down and overpower her logical brain with other instinctive things and emotions. That got sex, but it was hard to transition into connections and relationships. Guys who use this method get lots of sex, but often women experience something called buyers remorse after her logical faculties return to her. They regret sleeping with the man.

I don't use such manipulative, and basic tactics anymore since just getting sex is really pointless at a certain point.

Well, thanks for the random anecdote. I love when people can work in the fact that they're a "real man".

[one-off]

What are you jealous? You just directly brought up the topic of logic "thought" and it's relationship to seduction. It's not my fault you don't know the reality of the situation of seduction and I have to tell you about it here. If you knew then you never would have made a post like that.

It would be ridiculously easy to seduce something that didn't have a thinking mind to overcome. That's child's play.

[Hadit]

What are you jealous? You just directly brought up the topic of logic "thought" and it's relationship to seduction. It's not my fault you don't know the reality of the situation of seduction and I have to tell you about it here. If you knew then you never would have made a post like that.

It would be ridiculously easy to seduce something that didn't have a thinking mind to overcome. That's child's play.

And you would seduce without thought... How?

[one-off]

Subcommunication. You can easily kiss a woman without saying a word. You can youtube videos of it. It's actually really easy.

Here's one way that works but there are many.

Go to a club that only has an hour left before closing. With a slight smirk lock eyes with a girl. The eye contact should convey that of a sexually dominant man. Not a sleaze ball, or a little bitch. Sounds like a good description for Set by the way...

Anyway, they feel the energy. If she begins giggling or showing positive signs reach your hand out and when she takes it pull her in assertively, but not aggressively, and try and kiss her.

Now if I were dealing with a woman who didn't have a logical thinking brain I would escalate that kiss all the way to sex right then and there if it was legal. It would be a piece of cake.

Remember, animals have sex all of the time without speaking words to each other. It's an extremely natural thing.

[Hadit]

Subcommunication. You can easily kiss a woman without saying a word. You can youtube videos of it. It's actually really easy.

Here's one way that works but there are many.

Go to a club that only has an hour left before closing. With a slight smirk lock eyes with a girl. The eye contact should convey that of a sexually dominant man. Not a sleaze ball, or a little bitch. Sounds like a good description for Set by the way...

Anyway, they feel the energy. If she begins giggling or showing positive signs reach your hand out and when she takes it pull her in assertively, but not aggressively, and try and kiss her.

Now if I were dealing with a woman who didn't have a logical thinking brain I would escalate that kiss all the way to sex right then and there if it was legal. It would be a piece of cake.

Remember, animals have sex all of the time without speaking words to each other. It's an extremely natural thing.

I'm amazed that you fail to see the thought involved here.

[one-off]

I think you're floundering and grasping at straws.

By your accounts animals shouldn't be able to sleep with each other since they don't have conscious thinking in logical manners. And they definitely haven't shown the ability to plan things. But, beasts do it all of the time.

I gave you an example of how to do it without exchanging any words or doing any thinking that is going on today. You're talking about pre-thought. of say, forming the plan to go out and do those things I told you about. If it was in your instinct to look a girl in the eye the right way, try to kiss her, and then fuck you would do it without any pre-planning.

Seduction is instinctive I don't know how Set specifically Seduced Horus as there is no play by play.

Fact is. 1. Animals can seduce each other instinctively. 2. Te gods had the ability to fight as well as fuck already seeing as Horus was birthed, and these aren't the first generations of God's either. Their mother had God's above her. I looked at the whole story and traced it back to that primordial chaos. Seduction is a well established concept in this time.

[Hadit]

Your very explanation of HOW to seduce requires previous thought. On top of which, animals do, in fact, think, something that has been well established.

[one-off]

Hadit. The path you are going down lends them to not even being able to move or do anything during that period. We both know that's not the case. They were very active in fighting and sex and giving birth and what not. Seduction did exist before the existence of Thoth. If you can't see that I don't want to argue it with you because I'm not trying to make enemies. We share interests in this particular knowledge.

[Nahemah]

Please do stay on focus guys, it would be a shame for this to devolve into an argument, as it's such an interesting topic where you've both made good points. [thumbup]

I'm intrigued and may stop by later, if I can recall the bits I'm rusty on from this.