I Want to Believe in Ritual Magic - But I See No Proof

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xlook
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I Want to Believe in Ritual Magic - But I See No Proof

Post by xlook »

For a long time I have been reading about organizations that delve into ritual magic like the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and Order of the Eastern Star among others. But I never joined any of those groups before. Currently I want to use ritual magic to advance myself in life in terms of personal growth, influence and relationships since I am being held back unexplainably in each of these aspects of life. For a long while I have tried many things to help my quality of life about these aspects. Nothing has helped sadly. Honestly, I believe that ritual magic can help me to a great extent, but....

Recently I looked at videos on ritual magic on conjuring spirits and evoking angels to help me learn about these types of magic to further my belief in it with video evidence. Not once have I seen any manifestation that the video claimed to have demonstrated in invoking such phenomenon. I want to delve into the world of magic but the only thing that's holding me back from fully embracing its power is the lack of visual proof at least from the youtube videos.

Can someone help me with showing me actual proof of this power in order to fully convince me? It would really help. Thank you.

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Re: I Want to Believe in Ritual Magic - But I See No Proof

Post by Daud »

Research quantum mechanics. There is no world that is seperate from you mind. Rituals work as action mudras in transforming mental desires into physical action. I can't give you proof, you have to try it for yourself.
"Things derive their being from mutual dependence and are nothing in themselves." -Nagarjuna

"Comprehending beyond good and evil opens the way to perfect skill" Jetsun Milarepa

"Always recognise the dreamlike qualities of life to reduce attachment and aversion." - Jetsun Milarepa

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Re: I Want to Believe in Ritual Magic - But I See No Proof

Post by Desecrated »

You are probably looking for the wrong sets of proof.
I have never seen anything that I couldn't explain with psychology or science. Meaning, I've never seen anything that is completely separated from this world. Supernatural or paranormal is just nonsense.

I'll give you a more concrete example. Absolute zero.
Everything that moves have some sort of energy to it, energy will always give of a certain amount of heat. The less energy something have, the less heat it has. So to get anything to reach absolute zero it must also be absolute still. And this is impossible. Science have gotten very very close, but they can't do it, because if something became so cold that it had no mass, no energy, no movement, no heat or anything it would simply stop existing in this universe. And since this universe is all that exists, it can't go anywhere else.

Magic works the same way. It is always tied to something else. What somebody calls a spell, others call prayers and the third calls positive affirmation. Ritual magic is nothing else then a psychotherapy session where you prepare yourself for what you want to happen. But at no point will there be a blue lightning, god appears in a puff of smoke, sways a wand and *kazam*, you are now a successful business man with lots of women and cash.
The only thing that will happen is that over time you will be more and more comfortable in assuming the role as a successful businessman, carry yourself like one and hopefully be delusional enough that you can fool others into thinking that you are.

(Now some will protest and say that there is outside forces working with you and you will attract energy if different forms, I've even said that the universe has some sort of flow that you can tap into. But I can't prove that with science)


So what proof can I give you? Nothing.
If I take LSD: I'm going to see a lot of colors and things. But you wont.
How can I prove to you that I really saw that? I can't.
If I have a nightmare, how can I convince you that I really had it?

The only way to experience it, is to do it yourself. If you take LSD, you will also see things, If you have had a dream, it's easier to accept the fact that others have dreams. But explaining sound to a deaf person would be pointless.
if you want to experience magic you have to work magic. You need to practice meditation for months before you experience anything, and trust me, when you do, you will know that something happened.

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Re: I Want to Believe in Ritual Magic - But I See No Proof

Post by Roshan »

I would reiterate Desecrated's reply and add that the standard by which you currently measure magic with will not be the same when you actually start working with it. In many ways, the dynamic is like a Shakespeare play; reading it may reveal certain links but actually seeing it or, better yet, being in it, reveals a number of internal mechanisms that aren't apparent and easily communicable.

My advice is to start working with magic without looking for effects but instead keep your goal of self-transformation in mind and be aware of changes occurring within you, not phenomena without you.
There is a vitality, a life force, an energy, a quickening that is translated through you into action, and because there is only one of you in all of time, this expression is unique. And if you block it, it will never exist through any other medium and it will be lost. The world will not have it. It is not your business to determine how good it is nor how valuable nor how it compares with other expressions. It is your business to keep it yours clearly and directly ~ Martha Graham

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Re: I Want to Believe in Ritual Magic - But I See No Proof

Post by Daud »

Roshan wrote:I would reiterate Desecrated's reply and add that the standard by which you currently measure magic with will not be the same when you actually start working with it. In many ways, the dynamic is like a Shakespeare play; reading it may reveal certain links but actually seeing it or, better yet, being in it, reveals a number of internal mechanisms that aren't apparent and easily communicable.

My advice is to start working with magic without looking for effects but instead keep your goal of self-transformation in mind and be aware of changes occurring within you, not phenomena without you.
Top tier advice, right here.
"Things derive their being from mutual dependence and are nothing in themselves." -Nagarjuna

"Comprehending beyond good and evil opens the way to perfect skill" Jetsun Milarepa

"Always recognise the dreamlike qualities of life to reduce attachment and aversion." - Jetsun Milarepa

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Re: I Want to Believe in Ritual Magic - But I See No Proof

Post by Desecrated »

I also have to point out something about magic that a lot of people don't understand.
Magic is nature. It's a natural things, and such; it has time.

Where I live we have both wolf and bears in the woods. But I've never seen one. If you just walk out into the woods randomly you'll never see them, they exist in certain places, at certain times and they have certain behavior. Looking for bears in the middle of the winter is pointless.

Magic works the same. There is a time and place for magic. You won't find it on youtube, or on a forum like this, in a book or on the internet. And you won't find a lot of people talking about what kind of magic they are doing now. You have to search for roadsigns to how magic was done before and then adopt that to your own life and setting. Reading older books about magic only points you in the right direction, but you have to travel there yourself to see it. And you have to know when to travel.

You need to work with the land, you need to work with the timings. You can't just do a ritual on a Tuesday afternoon and expect great results. You need to study astrology, you need to study planetary magic, you need to study correspondences and natural magic, and you need to train your mind. Learn how to work with energies, learn how to speak, and listen. And how to shut the fuck up and just be still.
There are things happening around us all the time that we miss because our brain are to occupied with facebook, smartphones, tv, fast food and noise. Half of the population wouldn't recognize magic even if it stared them straight in the face.

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Re: I Want to Believe in Ritual Magic - But I See No Proof

Post by WillowDarkWytch »

Motumbá Àse

I do agree with all replies. In fact my approach towards Magic has always been from the mystic and spiritual point. As Dion Fortune said (I really like her even if she was kind of an uptight christian sometimes) one must always develop both the mystical and spiritual part, and the occult and the empowernt part as well.

Anyways, speaking from personal experience and the people I've got to know, I been able to se that as there are different temperaments and character nature, also the are different ends, motives, aproaches, needs, etc, towards Magic. And as we see Magic as profound practice, there are others that see it differently or just as the energetic manipulation necessary to get what they want, and it is absolutely walid as well.

I've always thought that everything has its function and i say to the OP, you got to have a clear mind about what is it that you want to obtain or achieve through Magic

If your target is development and personal/spiritual growth, then Hermetic training and Ritual Magic (Golden Dawn, B.O.T.A., OTO, SOL, FOI, etc) would be the best.

If your target is to obtain material and mundane things, you don't need "training", you need "practice", as in Practical Magic (Hoodoo, Folk Magic, Talismanic Magic, Rituals, Spells, etc), that would be what you're looking for. The more you practice, the more skilled you get.

If you want to contact the spiritual world in a devotional way, then you have spiritualist cults and religions.

On my case, ATR and ADR calls me spiritualy, but what concerns the spiritual abilities I always workd it from an hermetic point, and the practical stuff, that doesn't crash with my spiritual practices in ADR, I do work it a lot too.

Everybody has to know what they're looking for to begin with. According to what you need, you could work with practical magic first. You could see more "results" if done properly. Sometimes people begin with practical stuff, spells, workings, to get what they want and then as their practices advance, they get into deeper works. Sometimes people start with more complex systems and after they do work practical magic as well.

What I want to say is that you don't need to go with the complex if what you're looking for are just simple things to make your life a little bit better. Maybe, after practicing and starting to "feel" the magics, you'd be more interest in a more profound work. At the end one cannot work spiritually if the needs of the material have not been met [thumbup]

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Re: I Want to Believe in Ritual Magic - But I See No Proof

Post by xlook »

WillowDarkWytch wrote:


I've always thought that everything has its function and i say to the OP, you got to have a clear mind about what is it that you want to obtain or achieve through Magic

Hi WillowDarkWytch. Appreciate your reply. My response to you is in the form of a link to my thread which answers your question as to what I want in life and that will in turn help you form an intelligent response to aid me in fulfilling my goals. Heres my link and I await your answer:

http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... =8&t=40072

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Re: I Want to Believe in Ritual Magic - But I See No Proof

Post by WillowDarkWytch »

xlook wrote: and that will in turn help you form an intelligent response
Isn't my last response "intelligent" enough?? hehe

I'll think about IF I want to force my head to provide such an "intelligent response" [thumbup]
"Kosi Ewe Kosi Orìṣà"
- Yoruba Tradition

"Water which is too pure has no fish"
- form the Ts'ai Ken T'an

"No enunciation of the Truth will ever be complete, no method of training will ever be suitable for all temperaments..."
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Re: I Want to Believe in Ritual Magic - But I See No Proof

Post by Seabed »

The first workshop I took was the Silva Mind Control Course (I think I was 20 y.o. - now I'm almost 47). I remember as it was yesterday, my teacher said that it's a very important to all of us who were there to experience effects of our practice as soon as possible (the next day, to be precise). If you experience how effective is what you practice, you will continue to work and make significant progress. He gave us advice to set a short term goal that is important to us, and that is reasonable to expect to see results immediately.
I used to have sleeping problems. I couldn't fall asleep before 2-3 a.m. and I couldn't wake up in the morning easily. I felt asleep before I finished my "technique" (before the midnight). The next morning I woke up at 7:00 am, just as I wanted to (exactly 7:00, not 7:01!). I was in shock! It was such a boost of optimism and desire to work more and to set more complex and long term goals. I worked without any doubts. The results were beyond any expectations and I completely changed my life in the most desirable way.
After few years of regular practicing, I made a huge mistake and started to work on something else. The reason was that they stopped organizing classes where I lived. There's advice was to repeat the course whenever we feel that we don't feel like practicing (it was free for everyone who wanted to repeat the course, no limitations).
I confused my mind, and started questioning everything... but that's another story.
What I wanted to say is that is really hard to work on something like IIH, especially if you are working alone (I guess that 99,9% of people never completed the course, especially when making a mirror takes a place).
So, if you want to see results, try something that is well prepared, proven and suitable for a contemporary life style.

My friendly advice :)
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xlook
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Re: I Want to Believe in Ritual Magic - But I See No Proof

Post by xlook »

WillowDarkWytch wrote:
xlook wrote: and that will in turn help you form an intelligent response
Isn't my last response "intelligent" enough?? hehe

I'll think about IF I want to force my head to provide such an "intelligent response" [thumbup]
What I meant by "intelligent" was to provide you with enough info on my part to help you form a more informed opinion to pinpoint precisely how my needs may be satisfied best. Without knowing what it is exactly what I want in life you may be blindly giving me info that may or may not necessarily address the root of my issues. Thanks all. No need to get bent out of shape.
Last edited by xlook on Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I Want to Believe in Ritual Magic - But I See No Proof

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Seabed wrote:The first workshop I took was the Silva Mind Control Course (I think I was 20 y.o. - now I'm almost 47).

What I wanted to say is that is really hard to work on something like IIH, especially if you are working alone (I guess that 99,9% of people never completed the course, especially when making a mirror takes a place).
So, if you want to see results, try something that is well prepared, proven and suitable for a contemporary life style.
Wow! Thank you Seabed for such an in-depth response. Interesting that you mention Silva Mind Control. Over the years I have never had the opportunity to enroll in such classes but throughout the same time period I have always heard of its benefits in videos, word of mouth and magazines not realizing how potent it may be for the average neophyte such as myself. Based on your experience, what areas of your life have you benefited from using this technique besides better sleep?

If you read my link from my last post (which tells of my goals) would you say that I may benefit more from Silva or do you think I may be more enriched through other means?

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Re: I Want to Believe in Ritual Magic - But I See No Proof

Post by Seabed »

xlook wrote:
Seabed wrote:The first workshop I took was the Silva Mind Control Course (I think I was 20 y.o. - now I'm almost 47).

What I wanted to say is that is really hard to work on something like IIH, especially if you are working alone (I guess that 99,9% of people never completed the course, especially when making a mirror takes a place).
So, if you want to see results, try something that is well prepared, proven and suitable for a contemporary life style.
Wow! Thank you Seabed for such an in-depth response. Interesting that you mention Silva Mind Control. Over the years I have never had the opportunity to enroll in such classes but throughout the same time period I have always heard of its benefits in videos, word of mouth and magazines not realizing how potent it may be for the average neophyte such as myself.

If you read my link from my last post (which tells of my goals) would you say that I may benefit more from Silva or do you think I may be more enriched through other means?

Hi xlook,
I'm really glad you find my respond useful.

Call them, go to the introduction lecture and ask everything you want. I'm not qualified to give you any explanation. Instructors are trained to give you answers to all your questions. Introduction lectures are free (don't watch videos and search the Internet for more information, except how to contact them). If you decide to practice Silva Method, be a good student if you want to be successful in all areas of your life. My experiences are great, but irrelevant... You don't need anything else to be more enriched.

Most "occult" people hate them because they are so ordinary. No "special people", funny dresses, altars, candles, sigils, evocations, rituals, rare books, secrets... So, that's it. They are real and effective, educating people over 50 years so far.


You are being held back only by yourself.

Good luck :)
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Re: I Want to Believe in Ritual Magic - But I See No Proof

Post by Desecrated »

I have the old 1978 guidebook for the The Silva Mind Control Method, and it's still in print today.
They sold something like 6 millions copies, so you can probably find it at any well organized bookstore. Or just order it online.

It's along the same line as NLP, Scientology, The Secret and Law of Attraction. It's kinda a watered down New age version of hermaticism mixed with some ESP.
It's actually pretty good.

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