What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

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aratliff1207
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What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

Post by aratliff1207 »

I have been researching across this forum and other places as well and one thing that has been just bothering me to be frank is that on certain subjects such as when people, mainly people who are very green to practicing ask questions about becoming a vampire, or obtaining some sort of supernatural power IE: heightened senses, strength etc. or Immortality. A lot of very experienced ( so they appear by how they talk) just right it off as fantasy, they use the word limitations, or that we have a vail over us like a filter that only allows us to do so much. People speak about summoning a demon that is immortal yet has no one ever thought to ask how to achieve it themselves? People speak of how powerful different deities are, yet has no one been able to get to the bottom of how to acquire some sort of power beyond of what they have been told is "Within" their limitations? Practitioners far and wide all day will tell you to have faith and believe in yourself and that anything is possible yet turn around and say not everything is possible? My question is WHY? If you are able to do so many things that is by most, not believed in or thought to be lunatic what makes it so hard to achieve what we are told is not possible. At one time the things that are done in the Occult were most likely not thought of as things that were possible, yet look at what happened. They persevered! How is it that so many people can believe in such dark arts to where you can summon up what some call the devil or something worse yet no one seems to believe it is possible to become immortal in a physical sense or to become a vampire etc. That does not make any sense to me in the slightest. By saying all of this I am not in any way trying to bring disrespect to anyone's belief of anything, but I know my goals, I know what I want as well as I Know I can achieve them no matter the cost. But from how I have read so many people of similar beliefs think it appears as if a large number of people need an awakening of the mind. I look for anyone who has some knowledge they can part with so that maybe I can become enlightened as to why people are thinking this way etc.

Thank you in advance for reading this and I wish you all a Blessed day and life.

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Re: What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

Post by Occultess »

I agree with you. If you look at some of the old stories (say ancient egyptian) if they weren't just huge exaggerations, those people could do some amazing stuff! I think sometimes the limitations come from

1) no longer living in a magical world (where it's out in the open and not unusual)

2) the Western traditions having centuries worth of persecutions killing some and driving others underground

I think we lost connection with our true power. In some ways we're starting over again, and we simply forgot what is possible.
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Re: What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

Post by Cybernetic_Jazz »

Studying across a broad swath of material, staying in touch with a lot of sharp people, and having experienced a lot myself albeit still not seeing 1:1 relationship of that to ritual work I might put it the following way.

If as a kid you see adult basketball players on TV doing things that you think are amazing. You note their skill sets, their prestige, and you decide that when you grow up you too want to be in the NBA. You practice like mad. True, you absolutely do get better - there's no denying that a previously unpracticed or untrained skill set improves. At the same time there are a lot of things about your own body, about the process, and yes, about wide variances in how much different people can improve, and you may be one of the relatively small few who finds out that they have it in them to be the next Lebron James or Kobe Bryant. What makes them stars is just how rare their abilities are though and for the overwhelming majority of people their peak performance age comes and goes without them either ever reaching the caliber they'd need to be in the NBA or being so close to the edge but not impressively, or not finding the opportunity, that it doesn't happen for other reasons.

I think a lot of practitioners find out that the idea that the universe is infinitely malleable to thought is a bit of a new age scam. You don't just find out that there are certain past experiences that you can't erase the impact of, or certain things about the way you balance energy within yourself that are fixed, but just like the person who wishes they could work three jobs and 90 hours per week your mind and body have limits. You also discover that motivation is something like a currency, that if you burn through it too fast you can go into the red and loose steam, if you do too little you'll be demotivated as well, and there's a sweet spot for keeping motivation strong but it may very well not be a place that moves you nearly as fast as you'd want. A lot of this work really seems to be across lifetimes, which really can piss someone off who says reads for years, is all charged up to take a run at Tiphareth or even Binah, and then they find out that whatever's in them that needs to be transmuted will take another 30 years even to just get them across the path of Tau to Yesod - and you simply don't know these things about yourself until you go in and see either how fast or how slow your progress comes. The really disillusioning thing is at that rate, ie. if it's moving horribly slow, you can easily spend a while thinking 'Damn, this is just another religion! I feel like a f---ing idiot now who has nothing worth saying to anyone because I have no results to show!'. It's better just to consider that to keep plugging away at it, as you can, is paramount to your future - that you are eternal and that you will benefit in your next life significantly from what you do today.

A lot of this is similar though to the party trick where a guy is told to stand against a wall with his legs straight, bend over with his back straight, and he can't not because the chair is any heavier but because he has no leverage to do so. It's frustrating but again, just like the world isn't blanketed in NBA superheroes the world isn't blanketed in Ipsissimi. Similarly it gets disheartening even go to back and read about the greats of history, whether Plotinus, Trithemeus, Agrippa, Franz Bardon, Crowley, etc. just because you can ask yourself - with pretty much any of them (especially Bardon with how the back half of his life went) where their faith the size of a mustard seed to verbally command mountains to get up and move went. Even the greats had rather modest results. When all of that gets tabulated you end up realizing that yes - this stuff is real and no, it's nowhere close to infinitely fungible. Really for a lot of people it's so infungible and subtle in its effects that about all they can think of that's worth doing is personal/internal alchemy because it's the only approach that seems like it would reinvest in themselves and possibly give some accelerative boost.

That said I won't tell you that you're not the next Lebron or Kobe, you very well might be, just that lots of people will find out relatively early on the path that they're not.
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Re: What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

Post by aratliff1207 »

Thank you both for your thoughts. I will do some thinking on the responses and reply within the following days.

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Re: What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

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aratliff1207 wrote:Practitioners far and wide all day will tell you to have faith and believe in yourself and that anything is possible yet turn around and say not everything is possible?
Ah, the Law of Attraction [lol] . Stupid New Age ideology that is part and parcel of what is basically watered down truths about reality. Humankind just loves to feel special about themselves. We are made in God's image according to the Bible and the Quran states that human beings are Allah's viceregent on Earth. They do so by believing that everything is possible for themselves. The beings of light and love stroking our ego with statements like "You are loved", "You have a mission on Earth as healers, lightworkers, etc." In the process, they misdirect us from the truth.

Why is it not possible to achieve everything with magic? I have this question running in my head since I stepped foot in the occult practices. I have a theory. The world we live in is made up of dense vibrations, which makes it harder to manifest our desires. In the astral realm one can almost create anything, or so I have heard. I think that this is due to the fact that the latter has lighter vibration. Compare the vibrations/energy of our dimension as a block of ice and that of the other "higher realms" as fluid water.

The powers that be have put us in a physical body for certain purpose. And it is neither due to our fault nor because they want our good. I won't go into further details. Just know that we, our abilities, karma, reincarnation and many other things are messed up in this world. The only way you can enjoy immortality is by leaving this body. However, certain conditions have been put in the matrix that has snatched away our divine potential.
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Re: What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

Post by Cybernetic_Jazz »

Napoli wrote: Why is it not possible to achieve everything with magic? I have this question running in my head since I stepped foot in the occult practices. I have a theory. The world we live in is made up of dense vibrations, which makes it harder to manifest our desires. In the astral realm one can almost create anything, or so I have heard. I think that this is due to the fact that the latter has lighter vibration. Compare the vibrations/energy of our dimension as a block of ice and that of the other "higher realms" as fluid water.
I'd add - I've sort of taken a dive back into studying NDE's and there's a somewhat dark message sort of tucked away in the gears of what a lot of these people come back with. The way I'd paraphrase it would be like this - Atman/Yechidah knows exactly what It's doing with us and has us exactly where we're at for It's own reasons. In theory a person could be a failure by society's standards, had all their efforts go to naught, and be absolutely brutal on themselves for the way their seeming bad luck made them look to others, fearful that their lives might be wasting away beneath them, and all along they're exactly where 'God' wants them and are fulfilling Its plan for them perfectly or near perfectly. If and when it's like that a person has to completely rearrange their priorities and turn the adjustment that their elders gave them as children (ie. succeed or bust) inside out to meet that new incoming data. The alternative is to go mad.

That thought and similar ones have inspired in me a kind of mystic/magical existentialism in that cultures seem to rise and fall right back into the ground, people are largely incorrigible and will likely never have truth as a first priority or even a high priority for that matter, the tale of human salvation through technological progress seems largely mythologized and takes on a Christian heresy flavor almost akin to Marxism, human beings with increasing technological leverage and almost the same bestial tendencies as they had as hunter/gatherers are likely to wipe us all out, and in a lot of ways I find myself right there with people like John Gray (Straw Dogs, Soul of the Marionette, etc.) in my sense that we're searching for what we'd identify as positive purpose, with our sense of near-infinite responsibility for our own success and failure (and responsibility to torment ourselves if we come up short) and yet everything that matters to us in this life could very well be utterly orthogonal to the goals of Atman or in another way of putting it orthogonal to what the universe is doing, and that it's a futile task in that if it is measured against a plan that's not calibrated to or built around our happiness. Truthfully I don't know if there's any hard proof that Atman would have a problem with the west catastrophically collapsing and having either the extinction or near extinction of the human race (especially if nuclear power plants get neglected in the fray). That makes the business of looking forward to the future, at least right now, rather glum.

In a lot of ways life, human genetics, evolution, all of it's quite cold. I think that's the background environment in which we're trying to better ourselves and from that standpoint it's not surprising maybe that if a spell, a ceremonial working, or some other thing has us moving too ambitiously for the universe's place for us we might find ourselves treading water as well.
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Re: What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

Post by Omnicentrik »

I think its a practical matter. Experience teaches to work within limitations. The creative occultist uses those to define their practice and make it more tangible, as opposed to wasting time and energy on every variation of "what might be". Nothing is impossible, but probability varies. What newbies, and the idealistic theme of mixing fantasy with realistic practice- each has its place, fail to realize is that a single esoteric path requires years of dedication if you want to get results that you can look back upon as successful rather than some incling of "maybe".

On the other hand, you make little progress if you don't dare get out of the box of what others call "realistic". But the wise (in my view) take calculated risks that assess what is the best use of their time and energy. On the other hand, if you think a year or two of intro studies is going to open up the "great beyond", I would say...go for it. Look how popular occultism is today. Not as it was. Look at the closed study groups that specialize in either purist and scholarship based magic as opposed to Hollywood based fantasy. The latter isn't even true the the myths that it allegedly draws upon.

So limits are good, and idealism and inspiration is great. What occultists learn is how to be creative with those. You want to spend time trying to walk through walls? Good luck. But I would rather start with possibilities that have precedence and take it from there, without allowing those to impose artificial boundaries. Certainly going for broke is a risk, but you are less likely to be disappointed if you research beyond the marketed collectivist trendiness, movies, games and other such media that are very rarely created by those in the know.

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Re: What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

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I recall when I was first shown in meditation how to rise on the planes. I could easily rise up through the subplanes of the astral and mental. My energy body (subtle nervous system) immediately changed when I put my attention on to a particular level but when I put my attention on the buddhic nothing would happen. My energy body would not even try to do it.

This situation continued for a month. Then suddenly, with no warning, when I put my attention to the buddhic immediately my energy body would change. It was as if there had been a limitation placed upon me that was then removed.

Another type of limitation is the substance placed separating the physical from the etheric and the lower mind from the higher mind. These barriers are usually eroded by decades of right living but can also be removed very quickly by external intervention.

At a more profound level, it is said that humans on this planet working on the LHP are constrained so that the third inner initiation (first stage enlightenment) is not available to them. This constraint is part of a set of rules said to be applied by the group on Sirius responsible for education in this solar system. (Educo: I draw out) I have limited experience that might support that proposition.

A minority of Earth humans are properly called to the dark path. That is not about personal power but the desire of the Source of All to grasp matter more closely in this galaxy. Given the upper limit on that path, it seems that the rightful practitioners are sacrificing their own advancement to support the Life that uses the universe as its body of incarnation.

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Re: What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

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Amor wrote: Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:05 am A minority of Earth humans are properly called to the dark path. That is not about personal power but the desire of the Source of All to grasp matter more closely in this galaxy. Given the upper limit on that path, it seems that the rightful practitioners are sacrificing their own advancement to support the Life that uses the universe as its body of incarnation.
I started out very Neoplatonist, Rosicrucian, Manly P Hall, sort of that 'This is my Christianity' thing many people would associate with traditional RHP but I figured over time that I needed to explore it all. At this point it seems like the more Cthonic stuff, at least in my own world, is more like learning to maintain a fire arm, change a tire, etc., and being that the demonic and Qliphoth is not just close to the ground but what seems to be the ground it's a bit like those of us who touched down being almost instinctive 'good little kids' who found out that we'd be slaughtered in the Darwinian stomp out game figured that we had to engage with that part of things in order to be able survive without being subjugated by what really seems to be raw power without any nutrients (thinking of the sorts of more pure Machiavellian types that seem to run society and make or break the people below them).

In a way I could see that being an embodiment issue, I'm interested in whether the universe really intends to keep the world just the way it is until the lights go out or whether it's going to try building more rungs between 'here' and 'there' so people who want to live more peaceably, play 'Game B' rather than 'Game A', can do so and even pull parts of the mating and dating layer up with them (where if you can't bring that you don't have a new culture you're just a misfit whose genes won't get into the future and the world just plods along exactly the way it did before you showed up). That's where a lot of John Gray's somewhat non-materialist existentialism, particularly in combination with James Lovelock, or really the Darwinian nightmare that Donald Hoffman describes in 'The Case Against Reality' where power will always dominate truth in a Darwinian game theory landscape because it's only fitness payouts that matter - IMHO this place is primarily deranging and it's debatable whether people actually get better for showing up here if survival almost necessitates developing Machiavellian outlooks in order to survive so many Machiavellian people.
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Re: What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

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>whether the universe really intends to keep the world just the way it is until the lights go out

Just as you are an intelligence with a complex of bodies, so is the universe an intelligence.

By tradition, the universal intelligence withdraws from incarnation periodically in what is called a pralaya. Then its "desire" drives it to remanifest.

The same process occurs at many levels so that this solar system is said to be the second manifestation of the Solar Logos. The first was a system based on intelligence. This, the second system, is based on learning relationship (our God is a god of love) and the third manifestation is said to be for learning will.

The swarm of human souls formed in the first solar system has different qualities from the swarm of souls formed in this second solar system. The swarms coexist.

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Re: What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

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That's got a good dose of TOE 'strapping cosmology' flavor. Do you think any major writers have done better than Steiner or Blavatski on those models? I remember being really interested, or at least just having my mind opened to possibilities, when I read Steiner's 'Outline of the Occult Sciences' but after that it seemed like everyone had a different model of equally exquisite detail - sort of made me doubt them all (not to mention Steiner's aging of the earth, floating half-lizard Lemurians, fog world of Atlantis, etc).
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Re: What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

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>Do you think any major writers have done better than Steiner or Blavatski on those models?

Steiner, in my view, is a bit patchy in his cosmology, rather distorted by Christian mythology and his envisioning. His agricultural and educational work however is still excellent.

HPB is good but focused on the particular task of leading Europeans away from spiritualist seances.

The work of Alice A Bailey (also DK) follows on very well but ultimately was a failure in the sense that it mainly attracted humans that liked to memorize occult factoids. Very little practice of spiritual science followed.
https://www.lucistrust.org/

Bruce Lyon (also DK) validly follows the HPB and AAB sequence with his Occult Cosmology. There we find that Life drives all Existence. The emphasis is taken from detailed instruction towards a clearer relationship with Life.
https://www.shamballaschool.org/books

I like to think of myself as a practical metaphysicist. I use the HPB, AAB and BL material to provide a frame of reference for my work.

For spiritual science the key skill is rising on the planes. Thus the spiritual scientist, when meeting another intelligence, moves up and down the planes to match his/her energy frequency with that of the other entity. Thus the scientist is using pairwise comparison as the first technique.

Having identified the frequency of the entity, the next is to assess the light-dark balance. This is easy: set up a light-dark spectrum and move the entity along it to find a match. Then I look to identify the entity's broad type. This is largely done by guesswork, using the frame of reference of the above works, doing pairwise comparisons to find a match.

At that stage I am ready to decide if I want to interact with the entity.

It is however worth considering that parallel existences occur that interpenetrate the human world without interaction, usually invisible to human clairvoyants.

Also there are intelligences that do not inhabit the "sphere of existence" since they have not emerged from the "sphere of beingness".

>You don't have to do a thing perfect, just relentlessly.

Hopefully the thing is useful.

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Re: What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

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Amor wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:22 am For spiritual science the key skill is rising on the planes. Thus the spiritual scientist, when meeting another intelligence, moves up and down the planes to match his/her energy frequency with that of the other entity. Thus the scientist is using pairwise comparison as the first technique.

Having identified the frequency of the entity, the next is to assess the light-dark balance. This is easy: set up a light-dark spectrum and move the entity along it to find a match. Then I look to identify the entity's broad type. This is largely done by guesswork, using the frame of reference of the above works, doing pairwise comparisons to find a match.

At that stage I am ready to decide if I want to interact with the entity.
I think in my own state it's amounted to what I need to either a) expand where I know I'm weak in important areas or b) address current exigences and find the beings that I need to work with. Most of this really looking at my internal states, where the world is putting me or vice a verse, and what's still needed in one way or another. In that sense a lot of my 'testing the spirits' has tended more Jungian and trying to figure out which ones are capable of giving good guidance, which ones are pressing me in some fashion but have the moral capacity or culpability of an animal, and which ones might be somewhere between or which ones don't have the moral capacity but which may give me deeper clues as to what's happening to my terrain - many times lately under quite a bit of persisting pressure from outer world conditions.
Amor wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:22 amIt is however worth considering that parallel existences occur that interpenetrate the human world without interaction, usually invisible to human clairvoyants.

Also there are intelligences that do not inhabit the "sphere of existence" since they have not emerged from the "sphere of beingness".
I actually like taking Stephen Wolfram's hypergraph notion of the universe and reading it from a panpsychist / functionalist perspective, ie. running Wolfram into Donald Hoffman's world where it's a social network of conscious agents creating a canopy of webbed causation and bridges of consciousness made by agents that have transpersonal origins of which, higher in that stack, there would be agents made of those agents, etc.
Amor wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:22 amYou don't have to do a thing perfect, just relentlessly.

Hopefully the thing is useful.
These days I'm weeding out bad heuristics, trying to build good ones, and on top of that doing my level best to succeed as a programmer.

So far the 'thing' is quite useful and it has been in ways very few other things would be.
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Re: What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

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It seems to me that humans that cannot control their physical desires are very easily manipulated. TV ads are an obvious example.

Those that can control their emotional desires are much more likely to respond consciously rather than react to other beings.

Those that can control their thoughts are quite hard to manipulate, as they can detach from ideas and beliefs and are thereby more free to investigate Reality.

Still, most humans are suckers for an open hearted being, so the heart too needs to be managed.

Even then, occasionally a greater will may appear, and who can resist a hurricane?

Beyond that we have levels of Spirit that interpenetrate even the depths of our God.

So it seems to me that the way forward is to cleanse the personality and align it with the higher Light. That entitles us to join a community of intelligences that work towards the greater good. That community mostly has our back and prompts us to proper practices and decisions.

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Re: What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

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Amor wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:32 am It seems to me that humans that cannot control their physical desires are very easily manipulated. TV ads are an obvious example.
I've been watching our political isht-show in the US for a while and listening a fair amount to Daniel Schmachtenberger among others on the issue of multii-polar traps and various kinds of arms races that these people have a knack for falling into without any questioning - even if they've got advanced degrees (no clue how that works). It seems like for most people it's almost engrained that self-awareness and self-reflectiveness are signs of genetic weakness, like if you have to think it means you fell out of grace with the world around you or ran into your own limitations early to need to think at all and if you fell out of grace it's because there was something fundamentally/genetically wrong with you and you should be thrown down the social hierarchy accordingly. I've got a sense that this is part of why pop-culture is a vapid and anti-intellectual as it tends to be, it also seems to be tied into how power and truth have orthogonal relationships where power wins by weaponizing everything it can.
Amor wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:32 amThose that can control their emotional desires are much more likely to respond consciously rather than react to other beings.

Those that can control their thoughts are quite hard to manipulate, as they can detach from ideas and beliefs and are thereby more free to investigate Reality.

Still, most humans are suckers for an open hearted being, so the heart too needs to be managed.

Even then, occasionally a greater will may appear, and who can resist a hurricane?

Beyond that we have levels of Spirit that interpenetrate even the depths of our God.
Being as sold as I am on functionalism with multiple realizability it pretty much seems like that should be the case, ie. all of this amounting to panentheism at the big-picture zoom that seems to behave more like animism at the local level.
Amor wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:32 amSo it seems to me that the way forward is to cleanse the personality and align it with the higher Light. That entitles us to join a community of intelligences that work towards the greater good. That community mostly has our back and prompts us to proper practices and decisions.
Might partly be where we are individually or what the universe is attempting to do with us. I don't know if this is a perfect guidepost but it seems like the materials of the main-thrust of one's life path will be littered throughout one's past in all kinds of odd or small synchronicities. My guess is even if there are multiple agencies in some cases with conflicting designs or even machinations for us they'll be looking at time almost as if it's a spatial dimension where they can know when they want to interject - even if they only do so once every few years. The other thing, having had a few dream premonitions and one in particular that hung for about four or five months before it kicked in to reality - a lot of this really suggests that we are in a Minkowski block universe. That tends to send some people, like Tim Freke when I saw an interview a guy who brought it up, into a bit of a reaction - ie. not everyone's wild about determinism, I kind of take it as given but at the same time I don't feel like it drains the creativity or novelty out of life - if anything it just stops me from driving myself crazy with all kinds of counterfactuals that there was no way in at in hindsight.
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Re: What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

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As far as I can tell there are parallel time paths and I have physical experiences that relate to jumping forth and back.

It seems that the soul is not too impressed by the allocated personality and therefore runs a bunch of personalities hoping that one will turn out ok.

To accelerate progress these personalities are run in parallel (like computer cores) with learnings being passed between the personalities, particularly through dreams. One of the signs is dreaming about people you know well but who look markedly different in the dream.

When I have such a dream I put the dream next to various parallel time paths to find a match. Mostly the dream is not on this physical time path.

Occasionally the dream does not match any time path I can find. In a few of those cases, the dream does not connect to the Sphere of Existence but to the transcendental Sphere of Beingness. (My own labels)

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Re: What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

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Amor wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:28 am It seems that the soul is not too impressed by the allocated personality and therefore runs a bunch of personalities hoping that one will turn out ok.
This reminded me, I've had a lot of moments when I think of the evidence for lower and higher genius, and it brings me right back to the 'by mail' (whatever that would have been 4th century AD) between Porphyry and an Egyptian priest which gets titles 'Iamblicus's Theurgia of the Egyptians' and it speaks of 'Souls' with so many identities sprouting off of them. Often times I think this might be more what people are running into NDE's than 'God', the Ancient of Days, etc.
Amor wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:28 amTo accelerate progress these personalities are run in parallel (like computer cores) with learnings being passed between the personalities, particularly through dreams. One of the signs is dreaming about people you know well but who look markedly different in the dream.

When I have such a dream I put the dream next to various parallel time paths to find a match. Mostly the dream is not on this physical time path.
I never know how literally to take these things anymore but I had overpowering experiences with Isis in 2013 and 2014, and some sense that I'm closely correlated with her in ways that I'm not 100% sure I understand but where it seems suggestive that some of us are made by gods or goddesses and that I might be 'of' her in some sense budding off of that.

I also had a girl in one of my college classes who seemed to be from a Russian satellite state and - this is before I was touching esotericism at all - I could tell something was quite a bit different about her in the spiritual sense but I couldn't put my finger on it. I later had some dreams where, as you mentioned, where someone showed up who looked like her but had the flattest American accent one could imagine. From some of what flew back and forth with her when I was in class - I'm not 100% sure I buy this but it's trying to put logic to impression - I was getting a check-in at a minimum with someone who was monitoring my progress.
Amor wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:28 amOccasionally the dream does not match any time path I can find. In a few of those cases, the dream does not connect to the Sphere of Existence but to the transcendental Sphere of Beingness. (My own labels)
I wonder what you might think of Michael Silberstein's idea of adynamic global constraints. It was his idea of how you could have conscious motion through time in what appears to be a deterministic block solid, and similarly it seems like following different time horizons would be like taking a turn in some other direction. Alan Moore also spent a good amount of time playing with the 4th dimension in some of his work, he took one of his experiences with Asmodeus and threw aspects of that into some of his character's experiences. Like watching ones self go under anaesthesia though, it would be fascinating to be able to see the transition of popping between 3D and 4D perception.
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Re: What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

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>overpowering experiences with Isis

Quite so - physically her son on another time path.

Here she is as a founder of China, with compasses while Osiris has the square. This is very Masonic in posture and decorations. Notice that she is also a Naga in Egyptian depictions.

Image

>might be more what people are running into NDE's than 'God', the Ancient of Days,

It would be a rare human that would see the Ancient of Days in a NDE. Much lesser entities care for standard humans.

>check-in at a minimum with someone who was monitoring my progress.

Project back into the classroom and have a look at the energy lines connecting her to you. The lines act as if self-intelligent. She only looks human - but entirely positive towards you.

>Michael Silberstein

I had a quick look. The problem seems to me to be assuming that Existence (the dynamic underlying matter) is not intelligently active.

The other issue is assuming that Existence experiences time. I might assert that beyond humanity it is common to experience/observe all stages of a being's life cycle simultaneously. Thus the planetary spirit is perceived as being in all stages of its life cycle at once.

Time paths still exist but only certain intelligences experience them sequentially.

As a side note, now that Trump has legitimized the long-existing Space Force, we are now permitted to know that there is also a Time Force to sort out adverse manipulations of time paths.

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Re: What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

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Amor wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:46 am The other issue is assuming that Existence experiences time. I might assert that beyond humanity it is common to experience/observe all stages of a being's life cycle simultaneously. Thus the planetary spirit is perceived as being in all stages of its life cycle at once.

Time paths still exist but only certain intelligences experience them sequentially.
I think I only experienced something like this once, on a dose while I was also doing some heavy internal work and it was a bit like having a manic episode (I'm not manic-depressive or anything like that but it's the best language I can come up for it) where I spiraled into a state where I was seeing a whole bunch of things sort of kaleidoscoped together, it started from seeing this sort of fractal mathematic basis of human likeness and the projection of us but it ended up with so many different joined layers of reality going in different directions that.... best I can describe it, think of different particles making different worlds at different opt-in rates. I could easily see where someone seeing all that would be so overwhelmed by it that they'd be in danger from the outside world - like getting mugged or, farther back, eaten by an animal, which is part of why access to that would be collapsed. Also I did see in one corner of that a very bright light - larger on the horizon than the sun and bright white, and for some reason it seemed to have something like pink butterfly wings. I ended up somewhere in the middle of that episode writing on Facebook 'I think I just figured it out... we're the geese crossing the road when the Gods are going to work', and it was a comment about causality and what ways we might completely - even mindlessly - be in other planes and acting more like wildlife and having accidental collisions with other forces which then hit us here in ways which we don't understand - and typically we look to material causes in this world with no avail.

Amor wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:46 amAs a side note, now that Trump has legitimized the long-existing Space Force, we are now permitted to know that there is also a Time Force to sort out adverse manipulations of time paths.
It would do my head in to really think that our political parties, as completely messed up as they are (big fan of Bret Weinstein and the Unity 2020 project), would have any continual communication with other rungs - thinking of Jacques Vallee's 'Passport to Magonia' or 'Messengers of Deception'. It seems like most interactions people have, seemingly in the visible world, are a bit like Aboriginal dream time poking through reality and then the messages are so pragmatic that the content of the messages means far less than the results on human behavior - ie. we're manipulated but kept out of the loop. Human government generally seems to follow on as if we were living in a reductive materialist universe with no God, no life hereafter, no human soul, and then finding out that we're just a game theoretic species of great ape with all of the same instincts and the more intelligent among us find that most people are hardly distinct from apes aside from being able to drive, hold a job, and entertain themselves with gadgets. In that sense politics ends up being an isht-show because it's a constant recycling of rather base, immediate, and proprietary concerns.
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Re: What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

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The human has an energy system that maps on to the Tree of Life and thus is substantially isomorphic with the Being whose body is the solar system (the Solar Logos). This enables the enlightened human to access a very wide range of powers.

For example, occasionally alien sources tell us that Earth humans can make everything they want without using technology.

Many years ago I met a 16 year old human who told me that the nature spirits used to cooperate with him so that if he wanted a spade he would visualize it carefully and it would precipitate in front of him. He said that if he mis-visualized then the spade would be mal-formed and he would have to send it back.

This lad knew nothing about the Christ and a lot about Pan. He said this was because his spiritual education had been provided by nature spirits.

The tradition is that the Christ is the teacher of angels and men, while Pan is the teacher of nature spirits.

When non-enlightened humans encounter Pan it is common that they have a panic emotion since they cannot control their chakra intelligences.

There is an account of 1000 Athenian troops at Marathon fighting an invasion by 10 000 Persians. The story goes that a runner sent to Sparta to ask for help, was returning with bad news (no help) and met Pan on the road who told him that he (Pan) would be with the Athenians in the battle.

The 1000 Athenians slew 1000 of the 10 000 Persians, suffering several casualties in the process. It is held that the Persians suffered a panic emotion at the sight of Pan.
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Re: What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

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Amor wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:12 pm The human has an energy system that maps on to the Tree of Life and thus is substantially isomorphic with the Being whose body is the solar system (the Solar Logos). This enables the enlightened human to access a very wide range of powers.

For example, occasionally alien sources tell us that Earth humans can make everything they want without using technology.

Many years ago I met a 16 year old human who told me that the nature spirits used to cooperate with him so that if he wanted a spade he would visualize it carefully and it would precipitate in front of him. He said that if he mis-visualized then the spade would be mal-formed and he would have to send it back.

This lad knew nothing about the Christ and a lot about Pan. He said this was because his spiritual education had been provided by nature spirits.
This is where I give Dion Fortune and Gareth Knight a lot of credit for really framing the ToL as a filing cabinet in so many ways where you can pretty much hang whatever deity you want on whatever sphere matches their core characteristics.

To that end it sounds like we're just talking about types of activity and content. The thing I'm still trying to figure out though - if the ToL is literally real why no one seems to see it in NDE's. I've heard some fascinating recorded lectures from Jean Dubuis about the ToL, Laplacian determinism, and how Laplacian determinism lets up at least from the locus of Malkuth as one climbs the tree and can access higher options to orient themselves by - it sounds right but still, even for what I said of Fortune and Knight above, it still bothers me that I haven't heard a good analogy that can tack it to physical reality aside from 'Malkuth is the physical universe, Yesod is the subconscious', etc.. Alan Moore seems to have given it a valiant try in Promethia but it was still a bit hokey for the upper spheres.
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Re: What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

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> if the ToL is literally real why no one seems to see it in NDE's

Perhaps you are thinking that a pattern should have a dense energy field. Is the ToL part of Existence or Beingness?

I do not have an answer to that but I have found the ToL on scales from landscape to continent and greater. The ToL marks out the major energy points and paths, with a few deviations caused by very large bodies of metal ore - probably because such deposits attract landscape devas of sub-planetary status. Where there are settlements on the sephiroth, they have the appropriate behavioural characteristics.

It is common that Malkuth and Keter are in the ocean - so that humans do not live on them. In at least one case however, the Malkuth from one landmass is actually on the adjacent landmass. This has produced an area difficult to manage in terms of law and order.

I was first shown the ToL on Iona - at a solstice. The other ToL took some months of meditation to identify.

Landscape ToL sometimes face into the planet, with natural effects on humans. On two occasions I have seen such ToLs flip over to face the stars. One was in New Zealand while the Queen was on tour. The Tree would detach from a town at about the time she visited it. The Tree therefore turned over in the space of two weeks. I think that unusually slow.

It seemed to me that New Zealand became much more active in global politics shortly after the turning of the Tree.

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Re: What makes Practicioners believe in limitations

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Hmm, a lot to think about in that. Reminds me of how people speak of the planet having chakra and some people have tried pointing it out on the map.

it could be that since there are so many chakra and energy systems one gets a feel for what's already there in terms of energy in the context of of the system they learn, and they generally won't be wrong but rather they'll just place different emphasis essentially the same thing if they use a seven chakra, ten chakra, etc. system. I assume that from the standpoint that I don't think the world makes individual copies with different laws per each person's umwelt, it's not impossible but it seems like it would really do violence to parsimony.
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