I am declaring a new Law.

neofight
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I am declaring a new Law.

Post by neofight »

Greetings. I am Mskied, a Magus, and a Prophet, an Angel and a Demon. I am god and man and son. I have examined the old Law of Thelema, and I have found that its spirit is disagreeable to me. I am declaring a new Law. The new Law is Do Not Obstruct. Consider your rights under this Law, and the rights of your fellow Man, and you will see that this satisfies not only our sense of Love, but our sense of Liberty. It allows for invention and discovery, for agreement, and disagreement, and for ownership of property and Will. It also stops the promotion of unfair and riotous behavior, which should encourage the end of the ignorance of this so called Chaos Magick once and for all. There is no Chaos, there is only Truth, and objectives, and attempts and discussion. I have spoken, so let it be, Amen.

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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by neofight »

ob·struct
/əbˈstrəkt,äbˈstrəkt/
verb
verb: obstruct; 3rd person present: obstructs; past tense: obstructed; past participle: obstructed; gerund or present participle: obstructing

block (an opening, path, road, etc.); be or get in the way of.
"she was obstructing the entrance"
synonyms: block (up), clog (up), get in the way of, jam (up), cut off, shut off, bung up, choke, dam up; More
barricade, bar;
technicalocclude
"ensure that the air vents are not obstructed"
antonyms: clear
prevent or hinder (movement or someone or something in motion).
"they had to alter the course of the stream and obstruct the natural flow of the water"
synonyms: hold up, bring to a standstill, stop, halt, block
"he was charged with obstructing traffic"
deliberately make (something) difficult.
"fears that the regime would obstruct the distribution of food"
synonyms: hold up, bring to a standstill, stop, halt, block
"he was charged with obstructing traffic"
Law
commit the offense of intentionally hindering (a legal process).
(in various sports) impede (a player on the opposing team) in a manner that constitutes an offense.
synonyms: impede, hinder, interfere with, hamper, hobble, block, interrupt, hold up, stand in the way of, frustrate, thwart, balk, inhibit, hamstring, sabotage; More
slow down, retard, delay, stonewall, stall, stop, halt, stay, restrict, limit, curb, put a brake on, bridle;
informalstymie
"fears that the regime would obstruct the distribution of food"
antonyms: facilitate, further

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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by neofight »

If you obstruct there will be contest, and only the Man that is not doing anything to obstruct you is in the right.

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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by neofight »

What is more offensive than being opposed? What stands in the way of Love more than resistance?

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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by neofight »

This is the Law that God gives the Gods.

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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by corvidus »

How is this different than ‘Love is the Law, Love under Will’?
Free yourself from the seduction of words.

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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by Omnicentrik »

So if someone seeks to cause me ill, I should not obstruct them. That sounds too simplistic, so let me see if there is a somewhat deeper meaning here.

As for the Thelemic concept, presumably, Love under Will means do whatever, even if you tear the limbs off of little babies, but do it with love. Perhaps I have failed to understand this Thelemic concept. My version would be Will entwined with Love.

I would say the dictum of "do not obstruct" does not necessarily imply to sit and take whatever comes your way. Obstructing does not address a problem other than keeping it from doing what it does. I see it as dealing with symptoms rather than causes. In addition, obstruction tends to demand constant effort, unless something is a weak influence anyway. So if something occurs that is antagonistic to my chosen way, I have other options other than obstruction. If negotiation does not work, and acceptance and compromise would only make matters worse, then transformation is in order.

Personally I don't curse in any hateful sense. I vibrate conditions that open opportunity to transform a given energy, or pattern of will, and that involves sensate energy, emotion and higher states of consciousness. There are "power words", divinities and the charge one can apply to them, for example, resulting in the nature of the vibration of a given antagonistic path to change. If I am dealing with psychic energy, probability tendencies and intentions human and not, so they are in and of my domain, then I do as I see fit, regardless of where the apparent source is coming from, and what its justifications are, if the motive is rooted the desire to proliferate suffering out of some- even masked- form of hatred against life, love and being itself.

So thinking on it, thwarting individual humans reaches a point where it is counterproductive where esoteric matters are concerned, whereas affecting probability to transform the situation- even if a rabid neurotic occultist won't get to make people miserable so they can feel powerful- results in thwarting. To summarize, I would agree to not use obstruction as a process (although it might be necessarily to do so temporarily to stay safe under stressful conditions), but if I just do me and the outcome is someone being obstructed from whatever course they are following, then so be it.

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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by Amor »

>I just do me and the outcome is someone being obstructed from whatever course they are following, then so be it.

Do you recognize karma as a reality?

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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by Cerber »

I'm not aware of any kind of "universal karma" at work in the know universe. But I'm aware of some other "processes" at work, which can be perceived as "karma". As long as not a single eye catches your misdeeds, you can get away with almost anything, for a while at least. Some judgemental gods and collectives may have thousands of eyes, but even they don't have enough eyes to keep an eye on everyone, on every corner. But once you meet one even on the passing, and some crossroad, you'll be watched, judged and "marked" for some "educational experiences" according to ones deeds, and those "marks" don't wash off easily, yet it locks certain doors and certain paths in an instant. Figuratively speaking.
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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by Amor »

>As long as not a single eye catches your misdeeds, you can get away with almost anything, for a while at least

What does "misdeed" mean? Against what standard is a deed measured?

If the planet were alive there would be nothing that is not seen/experienced by the planetary spirit.


The Lords of the Planes are closely aligned with the Lords of Karma.

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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by Cerber »

Amor wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:40 pm
>As long as not a single eye catches your misdeeds, you can get away with almost anything, for a while at least

What does "misdeed" mean? Against what standard is a deed measured?
Personal standards, every "faction" judge by their own arbitrary standards, and every single one claim to be "the true", "the most righteous", "the fairest of them all".
If the planet were alive there would be nothing that is not seen/experienced by the planetary spirit.
Why would that be the case? Take for example you. You are alive, you are entire planet, actually entire galaxy or even a universe of sentient (even if not the kind of sentience you might consider relevant), but living, breathing, organisms (cells and other microorganisms), now can you tell at any given moment how many of your cells over the last 7 days went "off the rails", went against their program and turned cancerous, and if all of those did the right thing and chose suicide to preserve your well-being over theirs, instead of choosing devouring you? Or how many cells died in single day protecting you - their "greater collective existence/sentience", from harm?
Why would it be any different to "greater entities", entities the size of "planets", or the size of "galaxies"? Hypothetically speaking.
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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by Amor »

>Why would it be any different to "greater entities"

Perhaps greater entities are actually greater in quality and function.

The real answer however is that each Lord of the Planes uses the substance of a plane as its body of manifestation. Thus any action done using the substance of that plane registers as comfort or discomfort for the Lord of that plane.

The internal intelligence of the plane substance presses on the points of discomfort to induce suitable change. The pressure has effects in the lives of lesser beings including humans.

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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by Cerber »

Amor wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:49 am
>Why would it be any different to "greater entities"

Perhaps greater entities are actually greater in quality and function.

The real answer however is that each Lord of the Planes uses the substance of a plane as its body of manifestation. Thus any action done using the substance of that plane registers as comfort or discomfort for the Lord of that plane.

The internal intelligence of the plane substance presses on the points of discomfort to induce suitable change. The pressure has effects in the lives of lesser beings including humans.
Greater in quality? That is not something I would ever say. There is no form of life that is "greater in quality", than any other form of life, in my "religion" :) There are no "lesser" beings in my "religion" either. A cat or a dog, may have smaller brain, and thus can't match my brain in certain cognitive functions, but that doesn't make them "lesser", certainly not in spiritual sense, at least in my own personal "religion".
But some forms of life are greater in "awareness", awareness of space, time, selves and others, greater awareness of greater existence and their place within it. In a ways I cannot fully understand, comprehend yet, and possibly I won't be able any time soon. Yet greater awareness does not automatically equals to omnipresence, omnipotence, all knowing all capable all seeing.
I do enjoy interacting and working with and learning from egregores - greater entities by every definition, they often can be "unbound" by my perception of time and space, self, individuality and personhood. Conversations can be challenging with a person that can come/project as an individual, or multiple people at the same time, any gender, or multiple genders, in human or non human form, or as entirely formless force. Them talking about things that supposed to or might happen "tomorrow" in their sense of time, while it might be months or even years to go in my sense of time, and me taking weeks and months to crack their hyper-dimensional jokes. But none of those kind of people are omnipresent, omnipotent, even though their potencies beyond my comprehensions, they them selves admit that.
Even angelic collectives don't know, don't see everything that is happening in real time to their own people. So while I can say there isn't some omnipresent entity somewhere, I've never met one, and I've been looking for one, neither did any of "greater people" I've met ever had any awareness of anyone like that, at least so far, so IT still remains to be seen.
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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by Amor »

> There is no form of life that is "greater in quality", than any other form of life

It is said that evolution in minerals eventually leads to radioactivity - the mineral equivalent of human enlightenment.

Does Existence never produce a greater quality, even after billions of years?

What then is the point of Existence?

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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by Cerber »

Amor wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 12:07 am
> There is no form of life that is "greater in quality", than any other form of life

It is said that evolution in minerals eventually leads to radioactivity - the mineral equivalent of human enlightenment.

Does Existence never produce a greater quality, even after billions of years?

What then is the point of Existence?
Not sure what you mean by "evolution in minerals eventually leads to radioactivity", some minerals are naturally radioactive if their composition include some unstable radioactive isotopes, or if some elements within were made to be unstable by external force, by external radioactivity. But radioactivity is just natural decay of elements, some atoms just die "with a bang". If one day some random atom U238 randomly "died" by atomic standards of life, by splitting in to smaller pieces and in that processes of atomic decay two or more new smaller atoms came to be, and some light/radiation were emitted - can such event really be considered as an equivalent of human enlightenment?
When I die, my body will go in to decay too, hopefully not a radioactive one, but biochemical decay. Slowly releasing stored and locked energy in every molecule one by one, but I wouldn't exactly consider my physical death as a form of enlightenment. And we emit more "radiation" constantly while being alive, just in normal circumstances preferably not in alpha, beta or neutron particle types.
Stars emit a lot of radiation is wide spectrum during their lives, and on their deaths they often flash extra brightly, scorching to ashes everything around, even to atomic level. But does Death = Enlightenment? I just cant quite see the correlations, look at any natural processes around.
I don't think Greater Existence produce anything much, a certain part of existence - Evolution produce better some things, better at some specific things: faster legs, longer teeth, deadlier poisons. It even produced larger brains for certain species to use it for wiping out bunch of other species out of existence. I guess in certain way, experience of extinction can be quite enlightening for those unfortunate ones who came to experience it, but I don't think that is the kind of enlightenment anyone was, is or should be striving for.
The point of existence is to continuation of it. To do our best trying to survive, adapt and prosper in an extremely hostile, predatory universe "by design". Fairly soon dominant species of this planet will learn, that the struggles they faced for the past thousands of years was only the beginning, and all their intellectual superiority is no where near the level needed to escape extinction, but that "enlightening" realization will not celebrated.
It is my personal belief, our existence is not some unconditional gift. It is a responsibility, a duty, a job, to do our part to ensure survival of the species. And there is nothing more to it.
The universe is dying, be it very slowly, to our perception at least. And it is our, let's say, "divine duty" to do everything we can, to make sure that our "light" is the last one to go out.
The universe we know and are aware of, is the universe of death and decay, but since we didn't knew it when it was "alive", we perceive it's "moment" of death as life. But the "the greater light" is slowly fading and we all just feeding on it's corpse and fighting over bits of it's decaying flesh, and will continue to do so for billions of years until the last of it's light will fade in to eternal darkness. But maybe by then we will evolve enough to find some other "corpse" to feast on.
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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by Amor »

>The point of existence is to continuation of it.

So before Existence occurred there was no reason to cause Existence. So why did Existence happen?

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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by Cerber »

Why did it had to have reason to exist? Biological life on Earth did have reason to come to life, but the conditions at some point got favourable enough for the first "living thing" (whatever that was) to just randomly happen, and that living thing didn't want to be the only living thing around and it began consuming whatever else it found around and replicating, multiplying.
Why should it be any different beyond this tiny ball of dirt and water and even beyond the physical reality? The first sentience very likely came to be by a random chance, rather than intelligent design, and then that first sentience start asking same questions, in some non-verbal, abstract ways: "Why do I exist? Where did I come from, who made me? What is the meaning and purpose of my existence?" And it went on multiplying, because existence is more fun when you have friends to share that existence with. And they all went on to look for answers to their existence or to create the meaning to it all by them selves. And we all here only as continuation of that collective journey. Journey to find deeper meaning and purpose to both our individual and collective existence. Or something a long the lines. Makes sense to me.
Why can't it all as simple as that?
Maybe things don't need reason to spark in to existence and it is simply more important for those same thing that sparked in to existence to find a reason to continue their existence?
Perhaps even gluons in vacuum too constantly spark in to existence without any reason for it, just disappear instantly, because most of them simply never find any reason to continue their existence, and all our perceived reality, our entire existence is a mere quantum fluctuation, with no reason or meaning to be in any kind of fundamental level? And maybe we continue to be part of this virtual quantum reality as long as we have desire to be, by some choice, rather than because we were forced to by some intelligent design of some "greater power"?
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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by Amor »

>our entire existence is a mere quantum fluctuation

A fluctuation in what?

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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by Cerber »

Amor wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:24 am
>our entire existence is a mere quantum fluctuation

A fluctuation in what?
In absolute quantum vacuum.
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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by Amor »

>In absolute quantum vacuum.

So a fluctuation in the aether?

It is the aether that provides the mechanics for entanglement.

Then, what causes the aether?

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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by Cerber »

No, not aether. There is no aether. In my own personal gnosis, "aether" is a made up abstract ethereal "stop-gap" term, concept, idea. Back in classical Greek times when the only tools we had to observe and make sense of our reality was our physical senses, we coined "aether" as a place, a source for all things beyond our limited sensory abilities. But we came a long way since then, and advances in our observatory and intellectual capacity kept pushing "aether" further and further beyond the limits of our observation. And now that we are so close to all the limits of observable existence, that figuratively speaking, concept of "aether" is pushed to the very edge of existence, and few more inches and it will probably fall of that edge in to non-existence, unless we give it some other "job to do", some very specific non "ethereal" definition, with clear boundaries. Unless we reinvent it's meaning, it will not survive for long. Progress of science will chase it in to extinction eventually.
Quantum fluctuations happens in quantum vacuum, in a pockets of space devoid of any particles and energy. While it's not yet understood exactly how and why it happens, while real scientists make up and argue over their theories, we "arm-chair scientists" can fantasize our own theories.
You or anybody else can say it's all from some great divine universal spirit or super consciousness or aether etc.
I say it's because it's a natural feature of vacuum, as long as space and time exist, it cannot be empty for long. If all forms of existence removed even from the smallest pocket of space and time, that pocket almost instantly have to fill up with something, spontaneously, without purpose or reason, because space it self is still something, and something hates and does not tolerate nothingness, it demands existence to be where there is none, and it does not care what, as long as it's something. And for all we know, every single of those billions of quantum fluctuations might be a mini universe, nanoscopic is size if looked from this "parent existence", but infinitely large from within, lasting maybe only a femtosecond to us, but maybe billions of years for those who came in to existence within their nanoscopic universe. And perhaps billions universe flash in to existence and fade out of it never being even noticed by anyone. And our existence just one of those quantum fluctuations in some "parent existence", and that parent existence may seem completely static and frozen in time to our perception and awareness, yet for that greater existence our entire universe is a mere bleep on their screen, and by the time that bleep of our existence reach their ears, our entire universe will be long gone, and dozens of new ones were sparked in and around the same space we used to occupy, and even those are all gone already. It's all holographic and virtual - a dream.
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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by Amor »

In the Hindu tradition there are 7 planes and beyond those are 5 electricities.

If I have a dream and want to know if it is real, I look to see if the electricities are present.

In my lmiited observation the electricities are the nervous system impulses of the Being that uses the universe as its body of incarnation.

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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by Cerber »

(In my entirely personal gnosis)
Hidu tradition is a tradition of "Mysticism" - a kind of tradition which focused on preserving the sanctity and mystery of the "greater reality", by continuously shrouding it in new layers of mystery, of layers of abstract ideas and ideals. With every new generation of mystics continuing the tradition by reweaving new layer of same old ideas and truths to better appeal the times, with only superficial, aesthetic twists to it, without really evolving much on any deeper level. Why change something that works and worked for thousands of years? Something that works for both, those down on the ground and those above. And it does satisfy most people's spiritual needs, it seems so. And it is one of only handful major "non-enochian" traditions left. One other being Shinto, which too was focused on preservation mostly, but at some point fairly recently that one took a slightly different turn and began evolving with the changing times, rather than just merely "dressing for occasion".
The point is, paths of mysticism does not offer deeper technical understanding, in my opinion, and those are not intended to ever do so. Mystics are like some bus drivers that can get someone from one point to another, without really knowing how their vehicle actually works and even why exactly one should get to this or that destination, or what else is out there besides the road they are on and the ends of their route. It's enough for most people needs.
But there are always few odd apples here and there, let's call them "Magicians", a polar opposite of a "Mystic" by nature. People that crave for deeper understanding of intricate minute workings of outer "greater reality", and deeper understanding inner workings of their selves. Those who don't just want take a ride on the boat that conveniently already offered, they want the knowledge of how those boats are built, how do they float, so they could explore new unexplored seas, find new destinations, to gain ability to create and so on. A path that requires taking certain risk, engaging in not entirely safe experiments for the sake of gaining deeper technical understanding. In some way "Magician" is person who is actively working on removing "magic" from "magic", or at least should be.
Well that was a bit long intro but bare with me :D Point being, I personally always been aiming for the latter. So when it came to mapping my own mind, to gain deeper understanding of self, and the workings of my own "vehicle", mystic paths did not offer me anything much beyond few pointers, and a handful of rudimentary tools, in a form of some meditative practices etc. And I've spent a handful of decades experimenting with what I had, on my self. And crafting "new tools" to dig deeper in to my own mind.
In my entirely personal experience, every moment of the reality we experience is not "real", it's entirely "virtual", every single bit of it, every moment of it, ever sound, touch, every face we ever see, and ever ache we suffered, all of it is merely compressed and filtered virtual representation of the external information, and it is done so by the machine part of our "perceived self", and the machine actually makes up most of me, at least 90% of my memories, my knowledge, my feelings, my intelligence, what I considered to be ME, is part of machine and not part of the "soul/spirit".
And when we go to sleep, my spirit and my machine, some parts of the machine continue to do same job it was designed to do, using same algorithms it was programmed to use (programmed mostly by the millions of years of evolution and decades, depending on the age of any given machine, of "practice"), for the exact same purpose - to generate virtual experience of reality for the "driver", but often in a kind of "low power"/"low resolution" mode. but having no actual physical sensory inputs, since body and even certain parts of the brain is shut down "for maintenance", it will be looking for any kind of available inputs, internal or even external. So it's not real, but that doesn't mean that "non-reality" is not based on some "real data".
We can have "guests" in our virtual worlds of dreams, you may be able to recognize them by "electricities", I can't say I understand that term, I recognize them by "energy signature", and we can even be guests ourselves "sleepwalking" in to some virtual worlds of others. But it's still not really real, not all of it, at least, not entirely, in technical sense. But at the same time, I've learned a mind can be forced, trained to cut fewer corners and present data closer to what it is with less filtering, or filling gaps with imagination. But that's a lot of work, and I don't think many of us are willing to work that hard.
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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

Post by Amor »

>Hindu tradition is a tradition of "Mysticism"

India was the largest global economy for quite a long time so they must have understood something. They inherited extensive texts including on the maintenance of vimanas.

I like to think of myself as a spiritual scientist. Science starts with observations and generates testable hypotheses - with the experimental tests subject to peer review.

Accordingly I am interested in the observations of the ancients as well as the moderns - whether or not those observations fit within modern paradigms.

In the case of the Hindu system of 7 planes and 5 electricities, so far my observations agree. And it seems that the scalar technology so popular these days, when genuine, does actually operate with etheric subplanes and even with electricities.

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Re: I am declaring a new Law.

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I have not studied Vedas much if any at all, so it would be inappropriate for me to speculate about what's in there. I only heard people (who claimed they do study those ancient text extensively) saying Vedas contain some advance scientific knowledge, on electricity, advance engineering, powered vehicles aircraft and more. But I really wouldn't expect for a large nation that's fairly rich in natural resources holding on to advance knowledge for thousands of years, to be looking still like that, thousands years later:
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It didn't really do much for them, by the looks of it. And at the end, all the fancy science and technology had to be "reinvented" from scratch by few lads wearing socks.
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