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Re: Industrialized Magick

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:26 pm
by Kath
I think the problem is that we lack the fundamentals.
When we go from walking to taking a train... a critical step is to have Tools...
but i don't think a ritual robe or a candle or a symbol, etc. are really Tools in the literal sense that we need.
what we need are tools that impact the etheral reality in a very direct way, and are very likely not physically evident tools.

I spent some time with that, making constructs, quite a wide variety. It is useful, but ultimately I found that I was in most cases more able to sort things out with my spiritual 'bare hands' than with a construct. Perhaps I made crappy tools! Or perhaps our capacity to physically train (well metaphysically train) is much greater than our body could be trained.

Mostly i used constructs to automate tasks long term. Anything not long term, I found doing it myself was more dexterous and strong. Oh, i suppose there's entity solicitation... But I'm more inclined to get an entity to teach me how to fish, rather than bring me a fish.

definitely agree that the human ape brain is a serious limiting factor though. Its highly annoying. I hate limitation.

Re: Industrialized Magick

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:01 pm
by Cerber
Kath wrote: Mostly i used constructs to automate tasks long term. Anything not long term, I found doing it myself was more dexterous and strong. Oh, i suppose there's entity solicitation... But I'm more inclined to get an entity to teach me how to fish, rather than bring me a fish.
I think that's what it's about. It's not very practical to build a complicated machine or a robot to stir one cup of coffee, it will take more effort and energy than it's worth, and it won't match the dexterity and precision of your hand. But it will make make it's worth if there is tausand cups to stir. Fishing is fun and relaxing to do it your self only as long as you don't have an entire village to feed.

Ps. I like your avatar, very pretty

Re: Industrialized Magick

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:02 pm
by Cerber
.. and you are terribly late for tea [happy2] naughty

Re: Industrialized Magick

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:54 am
by DWilke
I think I may have a slightly different point of view from most, but as a mechanic and one versed in the occult I find myself surrounded by "magic" every day in the shop. In most things I view magic as simply the ancient title of science, for me many things make a lot of sense when approached this way. To industrial Magic, seriously, take a step back and consider what I work on nearly every day. A 15liter diesel engine that can make upwards of 1000horse power, and 2400 lb ft of torque (if youre wondering, a hot rodded Caterpillar C15 will put out these numbers), then that will move 105,500 lbs at 80mph, and do so burning an average of about 1/4 gallon of fuel per mile. These achievements may be science, but I am in awe of them, and just looking at the numbers does not do it justice. The millions of things that go on in a large heavy duty truck, are amazing if not magical.
I think magic is really a subjective term and has a lot to do with ones own expectations. If you have high expectations you wont be happy with industrialized magic until we have mechs walking around fueled by encapsulated soul energy. But if you have lower expectations and dwell more in the present, you will see we are surrounded by magical constructs, and we use them every day.

Re: Industrialized Magick

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:10 pm
by blindwake
Why should I lower my expectations? People's dreams are what brought us to where we are today, and people's dreams are required to take us further.

I 100% agree though. Our modern science is amazing, and any hyper advanced science is basically magick. So, if we can make engines, why do occultists dance in robes drawing symbols, just hoping for a result? If a newcomer wants to learn about the occult, I don't want to tell them to "draw this pentagram because the golden dawn said so, bla bla bla". I want to have a proof for everything that I explain; I want it to be almost mathematical.

Ex: I draw a line of some symbol, and it can be shown what that line did. Then I draw a separate line, and it can be shown what that line did. When I combine the lines, the effect combines, and so on. Start small, then build up. And please, have some theory! I don't understand why it's so common to make fun of "arm chair" magickians because they aren't "practicing". That's kind of like making fun of a scientist who's studying physics to develop a schematic for a bridge, while you praise some idiot that's not even an engineer. Case in point: you will not build a strong bridge unless you know what you are doing.

No offense to religion, but the idea of having to "prove magick for yourself" is an awful lot like saying you can't know "god" unless you believe first and give it a shot. Somehow eventually you "just know" that magick / god exists after building a lot of layers of confirmation bias to your worldview. A lot of occultists couldn't even provide a logical explanation proving why magick should be possible to begin with. That's how low our tech is.

I have no idea why occultists of today are focused on "personal" development. Humans aren't even designed to survive long enough to accomplish anything massive by themselves; we're a social species. If mathematicians just focused on getting better at mentally doing calculations over the ages, math would never have developed because we wouldn't have theorems, lemmas, etc. We'd just have elders that can solve 100234 + 214761876 really fast in their heads. Funny enough, they'd also be redundant because we now have calculators.

The goal isn't to see mechs powered by soul energy. My expectations aren't that high. At best, I just want to see some progress. It seems to me that all of the occult's progress isn't coming from the occult; it's coming from neighboring fields of study such as physics, chemistry, etc. All the occultists do is apply a different flavor to the standard formula of woo, based on their generation's culture / technology. I'd like to see the occult be a science in its own right.

Re: Industrialized Magick

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:49 am
by DWilke
Perhaps "lower your expectations" was poor word choice, but I feel you get where I was headed.
Anyway to the point you made in your final final paragraphs, I think that the astrological concept of the rescission of the signs fits there. We are currently under the sign of Aquarius, if I understand correctly this is a human dominant, non spiritual sign. If the signs under witch we dwell impact human development (and I do believe they do to some extent) then it would make sense that humanity is finding progress in things of a more concrete nature and less in the spiritual. Read, science is taking over from spiritualism and religion. I believe that in the modern time the true duty of the occultist is not necessarily to pioneer new roads through spiritual expansion, but rather to seek and encourage others to seek, the balance between science and spirituality.

Re: Industrialized Magick

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:38 am
by Analytic13
So is industrialized magick the same as liber null.. which is always fording a new river of understanding for the practice of magic?

Creation mixed with miscreation.. but only to the proper point of correction.. which is love..

Or fear in general..

Fear happens at a time completely and then love has a turn.. like the yin and yang symbol twirling about..

Re: Industrialized Magick

Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:44 pm
by Kath
re-reading this thread, i am more this time struck now by the idea of applying oneself to leveraging rapid advancement.
I mean, I've done stuff like that in the past, but it's just right now striking me as particularly insightful.
also the part about reaching lofty goals before we die of old age... very relevant to my goals, pretty lofty & all, and only so many years in a lifetime.
I am kinda like your UFO abductee. I caught a lift, so to speak, and piggy backed on the wisdom of another entity.
where would i be without that? how drastically less far along my path? would I even have maintained interest?
very lucky indeed.
But the idea, yeah.

once i tried, under the assumption of past (and/or future) lives, tried to craft a kind of mental link-up between all the other me's out there. I got knocked promptly unconscious. But I do think it's that style of outside the box, quantum leap, approach which is what's required to make a ton of progress rapidly.

PS: thanks cerber :) (about the avatar)