Death Spells that work

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Death Spells that work

Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: doh

My personal belief about not using magic to kill someone stems from my belief that, if someone one wronged me sooooo bad that I wish them dead, I'll pull the old "arch-enemy-needs-to-tell-you-the-story" routine so that they know just who the wrong person to piss off was. I'd want them to KNOW, without a doubt, before they died, that they screwed with the wrong person. After all, why kill someone without letting them know? I guess it's probably just some selfish power trip on my behalf. But I'd definately want them to know that it was me. Using magic just leaves too many "what ifs" for them to think about.

Now making them suffer before hand through curses? THAT'S another story. :evil:

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Original post: Grab
Athena;303050 wrote:Why in the hell someone's beleif in the binding spell would have any relevance on how well it worked is beyond me. Oh wait, do you just sit there and visualize him bound or something? Useless.
Athena, that was very interesting! (And funny way to write it :D)

Is this view of yours for any spell or just binding spells? I mean, if any spell, does it not AT ALL affect the results for instance working with a Goetia spirit to get XYZ if one does not believe in spirits, the effect of the sigil, the power of magick, or the possiblity that the ritual might actually work or that one does not deserve XYZ? I'm currently chasing down the necessary beliefs of magick, so it'd be much appreciated if you could advise here.. or PM or mail/msgr etc.

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Original post: Arresta

Gingerly stepping into the pool here.... I feel, that you have to judge each case ( or death curse) individually. If, for example;
(a) the person you are attemting to 'kill' believes and has knowledge of what you are doing. It is called "sailing with the wind at your back"

(b) If you are a focused and practised person yourself, having good knowledge and relations with said demons. Is called being at the controls.

(c) If it is neither of the above that you possess, and you still attempt your bad tempered tantrum. Its called crashing and burning with no style whatsoever.

You have to make hints at your malicious work, or the walk to your goal will be a long one.

Death? I doubt it.

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Original post: Neophyte

Even as a complete n00b, the result of one my magic spells was, unintenionaly, an illness of a person I merely wanted out of the way for one hour. It is possible indeed to do it without a style and even an angsty teenage with hidden talent, or some insight like I was back then can do things in magic.

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: Arresta

As I said, each case on it's individual merit.
How do you knowit was you and not a happy accident that caused someones illness.
It is like having a powercut then you snap your fingers and the lights come on.
Please... I mean Really.

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Original post: Neophyte

To document the whole case, I wanted my german lesson not to be that day, there was no inclination that it shouldn't be and it was not, and the teacher was then ill for three weeks. And I casted the spell, before I reached shchool, upon which I found out that she was ill.

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: Arresta

Then.... Forgive Me Mighty GrU.. I looked not in your eye

It Must have bin you!!!!

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: koolbear05

I think using death magic to kill someone makes more sense than shooting them and getting caught or having to physically stab them over and over again so they die. I personally wouldnâ??t care if the person knew or not, they are dead bottom line. :D

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Original post: Arresta

And having them 'erased' from the planet proves what exactly?

The quickest way is the manual way. But I am sure that in a court of law, even discussing the murder of someone, is intent, or purpose to intent to kill, that would make us all accomplice and conspiritors.

It can't be done.
It is that simple.

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Original post: Neophyte

Sorry, Arresta, if it seemed proud, that was not the intend. I just wanted to show the whole case, which, admitably, does not seem too adamant, for all to see and make their own conclusion, as a response to your doubts, and as a backing for my statement about the possibility of someone inexperienced harming someone with magic. I am not sure myself if it was me, I have a stance in magic that spells are components of what happen and not necessary causes. I admit there is often a space for doubt, if one wants to doubt, but I have learned that doubting effects of one's spells does not get the would be magician, like I am, too far in magic.

Anyways, I wanted to illustrate, first and formost, this part of my experience which apparently contradicts the usual opinion of other OFers: While you say that it is exceedingly difficult to harm via magic, I wanted to present this case and say, for myself, that it is not so entirely difficult to do harm, even for someone who, by the time it had been done (notice the third person) was 18 years old and four months or so in magic.

Btw. Arresta, what makes you think so absolutely it can't be done? If we subscribe to the scientific world-view, yes of course, it is all in the neurons and most of us here are schisophreniacs or at the very best delusional fools who aren't on par in sex with the majority and have as Scarlett or Hitman would put it "momma problems" and thus try to compensate it elsewhere. If such were your case and your view, which I believe sincerely is not, why spend your time in such a dismal company?
Otherwise, if we look upon the world magicaly, don't we have, from all, or at least many of the cultures that did believe in and practice magic warnings not about how magic (usualy presented as a gift from a supernatural being, or rarely a magic word or spell) is ineffective in the hand of foolish youths, but how it can do great harm in unintended ways, precisely as had been outlined here?

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: DestroyedBySet

[QUOTE=Lucian;305660]I am confused by this assumption that someone who uses magic to kill must be incapable of using more conventional means of ending life, and that to use magic to bring death is an indication of cowardice.

Would anyone mind explaining how you came to this conclusion, preferably without getting overly emotional about it?[/QUOTE]


Sure. Lets take a look at a range of murder techniques. Let's take murder by magic, murder by hire via a hitman, murder with a gun, relatively fast murder with a knife, and murder via slow and tortourous mutilation.

Now these methods above are ranked relatively from least to most in the degree of fearlessness required to accomplish.

Murder via slow and torturous mutilation? This is the stuff of horror movies and your average person probably would be semi-traumatized by viewing torturous mutilation of a squirrel, let alone possessing the gall to commit such an act or similar act.

Relatively quick murder with a knife? This example requires less gall than the previous one, but is still pretty ballsy. It's going to be very messy and gruesome. The killer will likely have to endure seeing such sights as blood spraying across walls forming some kind of macabre abstract art. The victim may struggle, squirm, and spasm a bit. Similarly, the average person probably isn't ballsy enough to slit the neck of even a squirrel.

Murder with a gun? Now the degree of fearlessness lessens quite a bit with this one. Distance can be kept from the victim. Death may can be very fast if desired. Messy, sure, some. Most are desensitized to this method to a certain degree and would shoot someone else if necessary such as in a life or death self defense situation. Many have no problems shooting an animal for sport.

Murder by hire? Now the degree of fearlessness required for this one drops by much more than any of the other examples. In this method, the 'killer' isn't even really physical the murderer anymore. In this method, of course, a hit man is payed off to execute the murder. The person paying the hit man doesn't have to ever see the actual act. He or she pays a sum of money as if they were paying their electric bill and the act gets accomplished behind the scenes. Now this is probably the most 'cowardly' of the conventional means, but still isn't in the same ballpark as murder by magic, as this method is still reasonably succesfull at least at accomplishing the task.

And finally, death by magical means? Now, of all the common occult practices from visualisation to "energy" work, to astral work, to banishings, to invocations, to charging talismans, to evokations, to sigils, death by magic ranks up towards the top, if not the very top of being the most utterly absurd, improbable, and fictitious idea of all!! The evidence is stacked heavily against this one even being of any success. There is likely not a single death certificate anywhere that reads cause of death being magical attack. Now with this method, it's not at all that the 'magician' is incapable of using conventional means, it's rather he or she is unwilling to do so. And rightfully so, it could be messy, he might get to the crucial moment and falter, he might become freaked out at the sight of a convulsing body, and he might be afraid of all the wonderful pleasures of incarceration. So I suppose to say that this person is a coward may have implied a negative connotation, but it shouldn't really, because in this case the person spares himself and everyone else the consequences of an actual murder, and keeps the killing a mere fantasy contained in their imagination. In this case, the 'magician' does one of the things he or she adores and considers to be legitimate magic and that is - fantasize and play make believe - about some fictional means of killing another. In this instance, it's not that the 'magician' was incapable of conventional means, it's that he or she is typically unwilling to manifest their fantasies into physical reality.

So to conclude then, you should mainly have noted among the above examples a range in spectrum with gruesome murder on one end to fantasizing about murder with the expectation for the fantasy to materialize on the other end.

Now if I do as one is supposed to with all fiction, which is what we are refferring to here at large, and make myself have a "willing suspension of disbelief" and I assume that death by magic is possible then it does have advantages, notably anonymity.

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: Lucian
DestroyedBySet wrote:Sure. Lets take a look at a range of murder techniques. Let's take murder by magic, murder by hire via a hitman, murder with a gun, relatively fast murder with a knife, and murder via slow and tortourous mutilation.

Now these methods above are ranked relatively from least to most in the degree of fearlessness required to accomplish.

Murder via slow and torturous mutilation [....]
Relatively quick murder with a knife [....]
Murder with a gun [...]
Murder by hire [...]
And finally, death by magical means. [...]

So to conclude then, you should mainly have noted among the above examples a range in spectrum with gruesome murder on one end to fantasizing about murder with the expectation for the fantasy to materialize on the other end.

Now if I do as one is supposed to with all fiction, which is what we are refferring to here at large, and make myself have a "willing suspension of disbelief" and I assume that death by magic is possible then it does have advantages, notably anonymity.

Mmmm. Thank you for your detailed explanation. I appreciate the effort. It's very close to what I had been expecting to read.

I realize that discussion of this topic will not be possible at this time due to our differing views on things like the nature of magic.

Nevertheless, thanks for your post.

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: Lucian
Arresta wrote:And having them 'erased' from the planet proves what exactly?
To a murderer, it could prove a great deal. Or, it might prove nothing at all. It all depends.

You are in the position to judge the action itself in a court room or reading the newspaper or watching *gags* Nancy Grace. But only the killer can truly judge the real value of their killing for themselves. Shaking your head and saying "What does this prove? What is the point?" to someone who feels genuinely satisfied with what they've done is, well... you know.
It can't be done.
It is that simple.
I would also like to know why it cannot be done.

Not that I've seen it done or have done it myself, but I am curious as to what lead you to the conclusion that it is simply not possible.

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Original post: BrotherM

You people really make me laugh:

1) Nice that you can all judge how other people choose to live their lives based on either socially acceptable moral values or your own moral system, when, by virtue of being here you probably have no idea how to live your own life and don't agree with social norms

2) Just because you can't do something with magick, you ssume it can't be done

3) Just because you can't understand the grimoires and various other magickal works you assume they are fictional (how many of you have ever used a grimoire, exactly as it was written? then how can you judge it's results?)

Being this open to new things, I am hardly surprised that you are all the adepts you are...

BrotherM

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Original post: hitman777

I agree, Brother M. I've seen several posts on these forums where people claim that killing people with magic is impossible. This is simply not true.

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: BrotherM

well, you and I seem to have had rather unique experiences my friend :)

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: 1000ShadesofGrey
DestroyedBySet;305950 wrote:Now if I do as one is supposed to with all fiction, which is what we are refferring to here at large, and make myself have a "willing suspension of disbelief" and I assume that death by magic is possible then it does have advantages, notably anonymity.

Nice p.o.v.
Wrong, but nice.

I've answered this long ago. You can find my answers here :
http://www.occultforums.com/showthread. ... 97&page=15

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Original post: BrotherM

wasn't this thread about techniques? I gave one, 'ye olde coffin spell'. Maybe the people who don't believe can fuck off and the rest of us can discuss techniques? I remember this, it happened on another forum on cursing and it resulted in me getting banned :) I guess I'll have to be careful then

BrotherM

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Original post: moonburn33

I once came up with a simple death spell. I once asked Kali if she'd let me put someone's poppet or sigil in her offering bowl. She wasn't too keen on it. But I think that there could be some valid techniques derived from that.

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Original post: moonburn33

There's a similar concept to the coffin spell in Palo. You'd get some pine twigs, wake them up and then use part of them to make a memorial. Burn a black candle (or whatever you feel would work) on it for x amount of days. Then you'd take everything (including a picture or some other artifact), wrap it in black (black really does seem to work well for this type of thing) and bury it in a cemetery.

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: DestroyedBySet

[QUOTE=BrotherM;305996]

3) Just because you can't understand the grimoires and various other magickal works you assume they are fictional (how many of you have ever used a grimoire, exactly as it was written? then how can you judge it's results?)

[/QUOTE]

We can judge simply because there is not a single ounce, not one iota, not one tiny bit of supporting solid evidence as to the existence of these fictional demons. There are no solid pictures or any type of solid evidence that is not debunkable. There is more evidence for the dodo bird, the loch ness monster, and unicorns than there are for these mass delusions. They're about as real as Greek Mythology or the Easter Bunny. It is not suprising that a magician must essentially make believe an evocation is taking place by creating some atmosphere conduicive to the associations they have with the demon. It is the essence of the phrase "fake it tell you make it". Thousands of people make an atmosphere conduicive for Santa Claus to show up around this time of year - but he's not coming. The most honest explanation is that they are representations of aspects of psychology - which then would make the grimories outdated and obsolete to the methods of modern psychology - in other words, outdated fictional documents that are an entertaining relic from the past.


[QUOTE=1000ShadesofGrey;306028]Nice p.o.v.
Wrong, but nice.

I've answered this long ago. You can find my answers here :
http://www.occultforums.com/showthread. ... 97&page=15[/QUOTE]

This is interesting. A simple statement that my view is wrong. Not suprising that there isn't any bit of supporting evidence backing as to why I am wrong. The best is a link to a thread that is actually to the detterment to such a view, as the link sends me to a page in which a member has challenged you to put your money where you mouth is and go take James Randi up on his offer and collect your 1 million dollar prize, but as usual the occultist skirts around the issue knowing that they can not be succesful as it is simply impossible. If you claim to be able to kill via magic - then surely this is something demonstratable and something that will qualify you for the prize. You need not kill James Randi. I am sure the subject can be a guinea pig, lab rat, or something of that sort. In fact if you do this, I will drop on a dime any skepticism I have and pursue fevershely and devotedly the study of magic the rest of my life as you will have proved your claim. But no one will be able to, simply because such a thing is utterly impossible. If you claim it is, then the burden of proof is on you to provide ample evidence to support your claim. Simply saying "it can be done, or you're wrong in saying it can't be done" is not ample evidence in support.

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Post by Occult Forum Archive »

Original post: moonburn33

So anyway, there is also a method of using the ashes of a Palo to lay a trick for the intended to pass over. Or also making black pembas via the charcoal.

I haven't done much in the way of poppet magic, so I can't speak for its results. For some reason, I have this irrational bias against it. Maybe because it's so common?

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Original post: LoD

Ave,

Firstly, a quote (not an attack on you Hitman, just as support to what I am about to say):
I agree, Brother M. I've seen several posts on these forums where people claim that killing people with magic is impossible. This is simply not true.
I, for one, never said it was impossible...and I must say not many have. What I stated in my post is the fact that one should be well aware of the possible repercussions and initial mental preparations. We are all subject to some sense of morality and ethics, and these can not be shrugged of when acting on a whim. It may be that while one pursues this whim one feels nothing, but the possibilty of the moral dilemma kicking in afterwards is most certainly possible. As I said, be careful what you wish for....it seems wishes have an uncanny way of coming true when you no longer wish for them.

Blessings,

LoD

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Original post: Cyrix_777

DestroyedBySet if you want concrete evidence then maybe this forum isnt for you ..Maybe head on over to the Richard Dawkins Forum?

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Original post: 1000ShadesofGrey

DestroyedBySet, I've sent you a PM.

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