[Repost] Most dangerous Goetia spirit?
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:09 pm
Original post: Kinjo
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ShangTsung - Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:44 am
Post subject: Most dangerous Goetia spirit? Everyone vote please!
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In your opinion, what is the most dangerous goetia spirit to the invoker?
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Dakini - Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:34 am
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I think every demon in the goetia is equally dangeous to invoke, if one does not take the adequate precautionary measures......
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Ronny - Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:20 am
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I managed to contact Bael one night. It actually did screw me up for a while. I had my mind but for a while it was like it wasen't mine. I clearly remember thinking "this vessel is acceptable yes most acceptable". For a while my whole manner changed. For some reason he wanted me to sacrifice cats to him. He was angry at me when I denied him. I believe I was under his influince. It lingered and was difficult to banish as it kept returning. I would suggest not invoking him even if you take precautionary measures. He is an ancient god and very powerful. I admit I still feel attached to him in a sick sort of way, like he's an old friend I can't help but love. As for the others I have relativly little experience and won't be experimenting with invocing them, out of respect, and out of fear of losing control of my mind.
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Caradoc - Wed Jul 30, 2003 4:54 am
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Hmmm..... no option for "All of them."
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LordSteelFisT - Wed Jul 30, 2003 7:08 am
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I dont no if this is theright place to ask this but can some tell me what goetia spirits are?
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etadich - Wed Jul 30, 2003 7:47 am
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72 spirits indexed and subdued by King Solomon.
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Harry Keogh - Wed Jul 30, 2003 11:46 am
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I am not a practioner of Ceremonial magick but none the less have studied the goetia and works simular to it .. from what i can understand certainly one of the most powerfull of the 72 infernal spirits invoked and then imprisoned by K Sol is an entity that answer to the name of Aamon amongst others ...
Amon, or Aamon, is a great and mightie marques, and commeth abroad in the likenes of a woolfe, having a serpents taile, [vomiting] flames of fier; when he putteth on the shape of a man, he sheweth out dogs teeth, and a great head like to a mightie [night hawk]; he is the strongest prince of all other, and understandeth of all things past and to come, he procureth favor, and reconcileth both freends and foes, and ruleth fourtie legions of divels.He commands forty legions, and was the supreme diety of the Egyptians, who had blue skin in human form.
Quoted from Pseudomonarchia daemonum - Johann Wier (1583)
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Harry Keogh - Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:11 pm
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After some brief reading which has refreshed my memory slightly it has become apparent to me that as previously mentioned by Dakini, most of the goetic spirits hold much power and all offer simular attributes and abilities but must be given the respect they deserve for they can be dangerous to the invoker or excorist concerned..
Beleth seems to be the one of the most superior and demmands the most honour or respect from what i can tell ...but once again they all seem fairly capable ..
Bileth is a great king and a terrible, riding on a pale horsse, before whome go trumpets, and all kind of melodious musicke. When he is called up by an exorcist, he appeareth rough and furious, to deceive him. Then let the exorcist or conjuror take heed to himself; and to allaje his courage, let him hold a hazell bat in his hand, wherewithall he must reach out toward the east and south, and make a triangle without besides the circle; but if he hold not out his hand unto him, and he bid him come in, and he still refuse the bond or chain of spirits; let the conjuror proceed to reading, and by and by he will submit himselfe, and come in, and doo whatsoever the exorcist commandeth him, and he shalbe safe. If Bileth the king be more stubborne, and refuse to enter into the circle at the first call, and the conjuror shew himselfe fearfull, or if he have not the chaine of spirits, certeinelie he will never feare nor regard him after. Also, if the place he unapt for a triangle to be made without the circle, then set there a boll of wine, and the exorcist shall certeinlie knowe when he commeth out of his house, with his fellowes, and that the foresaid Bileth will be his helper, his friend, and obedient unto him when he commeth foorth. And when he commeth, let the exorcist receive him courteouslie, and glorifie him in his pride, and therfore he shall adore him as other kings doo, bicause he saith nothing without other princes. Also, if he be cited by an exorcist, alwaies a silver ring of the middle finger of the left hand must be held against the exorcists face, as they doo for Amaimon. And the dominion and power of so great a prince is not to be pretermitted; for there is none under the power & dominion of the conjuror, but he that deteineth both men and women in doting love, till the exorcist hath had his pleasure. He is of the orders of powers, hoping to returne to the seaventh throne, which is not altogether credible, and he ruleth eightie five legions.
Pseudomonarchia daemonum - Johann Wier (1583)
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Elemental2012 - Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:02 am
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ME
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feranaja - Fri Aug 01, 2003 6:44 am
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I'd say Zepar or Gremory because they are the ones unprepared people
are most likely to try and invoke. But I agreethey are all extremely dangerous..
feranaja
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NuHad418 - Fri Aug 01, 2003 7:08 am
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feranaja wrote:
I'd say Zepar or Gremory because they are the ones unprepared people
are most likely to try and invoke. But I agreethey are all extremely dangerous..
feranaja
ah...good ol Zepar!
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feranaja - Fri Aug 01, 2003 7:15 am
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Seems I haven't quite lost him yet...
Live and learn...or not...
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ShangTsung - Fri Aug 01, 2003 9:46 am
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NuHad418 wrote:
feranaja wrote:
I'd say Zepar or Gremory because they are the ones unprepared people
are most likely to try and invoke. But I agreethey are all extremely dangerous..
feranaja
ah...good ol Zepar!
What, many new people try to invoke Zepar/Gremory first?
Why?
I see many people use magic as an easy way to get laid (Zepar).
C'mon, cant they could be more creative!
Why are gremory/zepar dangerous? What can they (Zepar, Gremory) possibly do???
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feranaja - Fri Aug 01, 2003 9:56 am
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That's a rather crude way of putting it...I invoked Zepar not as an easy way to get laid but because I ws basically out of control - intoxicated - with magic and had lost my centre so I thought it was fine to do stuff like that. I'm a Priestess of Aphrodite and so Zepar seemed an obvious choice, especially since I was doing the operation with my lover at that time (who was also insane, possibly more than I was even).
I have heard of instances where people think ofinvoking both these Demons because they have rotten love lifes, but that wasn't my inspiration personally.
Zepar nearly drove me mad and almost wrecked my life. The details aren't important, just the lesson.
A word to the wise...
feranaja, who learned humilityand common sense the hard way
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Batnose - Wed Aug 06, 2003 1:29 pm
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Furcas - the only Knight
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ShangTsung - Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:04 pm
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Batnose wrote:
Furcas - the only Knight
If I may ask.
WHY?
His rank is the lowest if not the lowest.
I can see why Belial/Bael/Asmoday/Paimon/Beleth/Purson/Vine/Zagan would be dangerous (they are too high up the food chain).
Furcas only teaches things, he doesnot have any "whack him" kind of abilities.
please reply.
thank you very much.
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Leo Vergerus - Fri Aug 15, 2003 2:04 pm
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I think Andras is probably the most dangerous goetic spirit.
In almost every text on Goetia there is a warning about his "speciality" :
killing who summon it
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hitman777 - Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:36 pm
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I think that Larry or Cletus are definetly the most dangerous. Oh, wait wrong guys. I think the ones that get billed as nice are as dangerous as the meanies.
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Frater Neshama - Sun Sep 21, 2003 10:31 am
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All of them !!!!
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Captator - Sun Sep 21, 2003 10:36 am
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I have never evoked anything because my attitude is contained within this text.
Liber Libræ
Sub Figura XXX
The Book of the Balance
0. Learn first - Oh thou who aspirest unto our ancient Order! - that Equilibrium is the basis of the Work. If thou thyself hast not a sure foundation, whereon wilt thou stand to direct the forces of Nature?
I don't feel very balanced yet. I might try it when i feel that im in harmony with the forces of the universe.
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Batnose - Sun Sep 21, 2003 11:38 am
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Quote:
Batnose wrote:
Furcas - the only Knight
If I may ask.
WHY?
His rank is the lowest if not the lowest....
Furcas only teaches things, he doesnot have any "whack him" kind of abilities.
please reply.
Assumptions, only assumptions.
Furcas is the only 'Saturnian' spirit. Saturn is described as an exacting astrological influence. Some actually call it the 'Greater Malefic.'
The only anecdote I've ever seen about summoning Furcas led to a 'minor explosion.' (Steve Savedow, 'Goetic Evocation,' Eschaton Publishing)
My views have changed radically since I posted that speculation. Don't take it too seriously.
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Master of the Abyss - Mon Sep 22, 2003 9:05 am
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I evoked Furcas yesterday, and I'm fine. He is Saturnian, but more of the philosopher and wise-man Saturn aspect than the death aspect. There actually are several other goetics who could be described as Saturnian, Glasya-Labolas or Focalor for example. Their influence is surely deathlike and, in my experience, makes banishing more obviously necessary than many other goetics.
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I AM - Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:29 pm
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feranaja wrote:
That's a rather crude way of putting it...I invoked Zepar not as an easy way to get laid but because I ws basically out of control - intoxicated - with magic and had lost my centre so I thought it was fine to do stuff like that. I'm a Priestess of Aphrodite and so Zepar seemed an obvious choice, especially since I was doing the operation with my lover at that time (who was also insane, possibly more than I was even).
I have heard of instances where people think ofinvoking both these Demons because they have rotten love lifes, but that wasn't my inspiration personally.
Zepar nearly drove me mad and almost wrecked my life. The details aren't important, just the lesson.
A word to the wise...
feranaja, who learned humilityand common sense the hard way
Ah, the old invoking Demon thing. You are lucky feranaja. It could have been worse. Much, much worse.
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Baphometr418 - Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:13 am
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All I can say is that I downloaded all the images I could find one night after work of the Goetic demons (for a film project incidently) and the next day (deadline day for the fund I ws applying to) my computer, printer, cell phone and one other computer broke down. There was a bunch of other stuff too. For about 48 hrs I was plagued by the most bizzarre technology failings I have ever in my life seen. Coincidence perhaps. But bizzarre non the less.
Besides that I know NOTHING about goetia except the basic guff everyone knows.
I'm guessing but....they're probably all very worthy of careful respect.
If for nothing other than their age.
Baphometr418
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Batnose - Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:01 pm
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Baphometr
Ever since I began active work with the Goetia, strange phenomena has been a common occurance. It has usually manifested in electrical and electronic systems; i.e. intermittant 'problems' that I can find no rational explanation for even though I've worked with electronics deeply for 20 years. I have read of this type of manifestation from other Goetic practitioners. Wonder why the electromagnetic is their 'poltergiest mechanism' of choice?
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hitman777 - Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:15 pm
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Not sure, but I would concur with this. Maybe it's because I got into the Goetia too early, I don't know. Or maybe it has to do with the type of energies they consist of.
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dezmon - Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:29 am
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how do u go about invoking demons coz i would love to see belial dunno why but still......oh yeh and where can i find text or books on the lesser keys of solomon plz
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I AM - Fri Jan 02, 2004 9:22 am
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dezmon wrote:
how do u go about invoking demons coz i would love to see belial dunno why but still......oh yeh and where can i find text or books on the lesser keys of solomon plz
Have you tried looking the the Foundations of CM topic or the Newbie resources in this Forum. If not go there first.
Humbly, I AM
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hitman777 - Sat Jan 03, 2004 2:03 am
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EVOKE, not INVOKE. I am not trying to play idiotic word games, but they are two VERY different things. Offhand I really can't think of any good reason to call a demon INTO you. I can also tell you from past experience that it is a bad idea.
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Cernunnos - Sat Jan 03, 2004 3:20 am
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To answer the question of which spirit is most dangerous...none of them if invoked or evoked correctly. If something goes wrong, it's the magus's fault, not the spirit or God/dess.
If you can define what you mean by "dangerous" and to whom the danger lies with this, then we could have an actual discussion because all the spirits can be dangerous to anyone. Many can give familiars and you can demad that the familiar goes off can kills your enemy or you can piss off the wrong spirit and have all their legions and their fellow [Goetic] spirit friends to not like you (do you think they ever talk amongst themselves?)
hitman777 wrote:
EVOKE, not INVOKE. I am not trying to play idiotic word games, but they are two VERY different things.
Oh, is that the case? Well yes, evoke is different than invoke, but you might want to take a look at this site and tell me why they quote the Goetia to bare the word "Invocateth" under spirit #4 Gamigin...
www.esotericarchives.com/solomon/goetia.htm
Quote:
Offhand I really can't think of any good reason to call a demon INTO you.
Crowley invoked a demon (forget which one) into him when he was in the desert. He did that so the demon could speak through him and pass on his knowledge. Doesn't sound like a bad idea to me, especially seeing that Crowley was doing it because he was one of the guys that translated the Goetia in the first place.
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Oth - Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:36 am
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Cernunnos wrote:
Crowley invoked a demon (forget which one) into him when he was in the desert. He did that so the demon could speak through him and pass on his knowledge. Doesn't sound like a bad idea to me, especially seeing that Crowley was doing it because he was one of the guys that translated the Goetia in the first place.
Choronzon - just before he attacked Neuberg.
Oth
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Oth - Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:40 am
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Cernunnos wrote:
Crowley invoked a demon (forget which one) into him when he was in the desert. He did that so the demon could speak through him and pass on his knowledge. Doesn't sound like a bad idea to me, especially seeing that Crowley was doing it because he was one of the guys that translated the Goetia in the first place.
Choronzon (who is not goetian) - just before he attacked Neuberg, wasn't it?
Crowley only did some light editing and added a tiny bit of material to Mathers "translation" of the goetia.
Oth
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WrathfulSpatula - Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:32 pm
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I haven't evoked most of the demons on that list, but I thought I'd mention that I've recently dealt with Beleth, and it was actually an extremely positive experience. He's very demanding at times and feels incredibly strong relative to most of the other demons I've evoked, but I think if you're ready and eager to hear what he has to say, and are willing to go the extra mile and really do up right any rituals that involve him, he's quite amicable and well-intentioned. Not that you should slack off during ANY ritual, but Beleth really appreciates and requires some especial treatment. As was mentioned earlier, any harm that comes from these rituals is the practioner's fault, not the evoked entities', but when treated with a high, but reasonable, modicum of respect and openness, Beleth isn't out to hurt anyone--quite the contrary, actually.
I also thought I'd suggest adding Gaap to the list. The entity has a number of different sides, and can definitely be positive to work with. Unfortunately, it seems to vascillate constantly in all my dealings with it, and it's ugly sides are some of the ugliest I've ever seen...
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_Dennis_ - Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:43 am
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andaras... for some on who kill his follows , yes...
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Azalin - Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:55 am
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According to certain sources Belial is another name of Satan.
Is this correct? In that case he would SEEM to be the most dangerous.
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blackarts34 - Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:10 pm
EREMONIAL MAGICK
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I agree with Azalin that Belial would be the most dangerous. Its according to the Dead Sea Scrolls that Belial is synonmous with Satan.
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snowtiger88 - Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:40 am
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i want to do all this but i dont know where to begin can anyone help me on finding a book or website that would help with these teachings , is it possible to invoke all 72 ?
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Astral Alien - Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:27 am
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snowtiger88 wrote:
i want to do all this but i dont know where to begin can anyone help me on finding a book or website that would help with these teachings , is it possible to invoke all 72 ?
I presume you are trying to "evoke", not "invoke" them. These two words are similar but invoking is into you, evoking is outside you.
Try getting a copy of the lesser key of solomon, i suppose you can find it at amazon.com or simply download it online, and "summoning spirits" by Konstantinos. The latter is very much recommended for evoking most spirits even those not goetic.
Pardon me for asking, but :
Why do you want to evoke all 72!?
Each spirit has its own abilities and I don't see a need to evoke all, unless you are trying something I probably didn't understood
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Fetus - Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:25 am
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I would say do not invoke these beings, I understand you probably meant evoke but confused the two words . do you mean all of them over a long period ot time?
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Anonymous - Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:36 pm
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Belaial Astaroth would be scary to summon.
Satan Pschhh waste of time summoning him Im told.
Weak demon on the bottom level of hades.
Belaial is on the sixth aswell as astaroth so would def be more scary.
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snowtiger88 - Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:07 pm
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yes could you evoke also , but i also meant invoke becuase to have all of them in you would be an exsperience , dont you have to serve the one you evoke after you die or is that just invoking ? Where am i supossed to draw these circles when i live in an arpt with rugs
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blackarts34 - Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:59 pm
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Snowtiger88, to invoke all 72 Goetia spirits at once would be suicide. The thing about having to serve the one you evoke after you die is nonsense. Your question about the circle I would say look at the foundations of ceremonial magick in this forum. It has alot of good information about the things your asking about.
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snowtiger88 - Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:31 am
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is there some way i could get maybe a teacher to help me do these tasks and show me the proper way for many things or do people not do that i could learn it on my own but it would be faster with others ,,, also no1 has answered me about envoking 72 ? all the readings and instructions on the other forum pages arnt has helpfull as the people in here
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snowtiger88 - Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:36 am
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my AIM is devilgod88666
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blackarts34 - Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:54 pm
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Ok Snowtiger one can evoke all 72 spirits of the Goetia but not all at once, that would be insane. As a general rule its unwise to invoke any demon. Its can be done but why would you want one inside of you? There are alot of basics you have to ground yourself in before you can start any kind of invocation or evocation. Working with a teacher will not gurantee that your going to learn any of this faster. Much of the work you have to do on your own. Once again go back to the foundations of ceremonial magick and study the topics listed there. I can tell what to do but if you have no understanding of the basics you will get no results. There is no way around doing the research and the work. I would suggest the study and practice of the Lesser Banishing Ritulal Of The Pentegram as a starting point.
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goetiagirl - Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:02 pm
Post subject: Zepar
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I have a quick question. I tried to evoke Sallos yesterday...he didn't come through very strongly...I had to also evoke Orobas for something else...while Orobas was there (or I thought he was there I didn't see him but heard him in my mind) he told me Sallos would not help me and I should call Zepar instead. Why do you suppose he'd say that...I've never attempted Zepar for obvious reasons...is he ever 'ok' when he shows up or with him are there always ramificaitons? Thanks.
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goetiagirl - Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:09 pm
Post subject: Zepar
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I have a quick question. I tried to evoke Sallos yesterday...he didn't come through very strongly...I had to also evoke Orobas for something else...while Orobas was there (or I thought he was there I didn't see him but heard him in my mind) he told me Sallos would not help me and I should call Zepar instead. Why do you suppose he'd say that...I've never attempted Zepar for obvious reasons...is he ever 'ok' when he shows up or with him are there always ramificaitons? Thanks.
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blackarts34 - Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:30 pm
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Hey Goetiagirl, I don't know what kind of relationship you have with Orobas but i think he was just trying to help you out by suggesting an alternative spririt. I ran into something similiar when I tried to evoke Gremory, she was being extremely difficult. After several weeks I evoked Andramalius and he said though it is possible to make Gremory submit I would have a much easier time employing someone else. I didn't take him up on his advice. I was intent on Gremory for some reason but she was defiant to the end and my operation was pretty much a failure. I've never evoked Zepar so I can't comment on him. If you decide to evoke him I'd be really insterested to hear how that went.
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snowtiger88 - Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:53 am
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say you had followers to a certin degree , 72 to be exact if you could get all 72 to invoke a diff spirit tech you could use them all if you had the control over the people as well so wouldnt you sort of in a way be like king solomon ? jw no reason
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KKT - Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:41 pm
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The evocation of all 72 is a key part of some Traditions, if i remember correctly
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Kallisti - Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:49 pm
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There are a zillion Goetia threads going right now, so I figured I'd just post this on the most active one. I'm curious (and this question is addressed to those who have actually worked with several different spirits from the Goetia), how big a factor is the spirit's rank is in the success of the evocation? Is it harder to get the attention of a King than of a Knight or Earl? Obviously the traditional methods for evoking higher-ranking spirits reqire mmore expensive metals for constructing the seals. Any takers?
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hitman777 - Thu Mar 25, 2004 9:41 am
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In answer to Kallisti's question, no not really. Ive had trouble evoking Marchosias one of the times I tried, but I got Bael to manifest with ease. It really has nothing to do with rank.
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blackarts34 - Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:02 pm
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I agree with Hitman.
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hitman777 - Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:04 pm
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I was just trying to answer a question, not appear stupid! Wah, waaah!
Sorry, back to being serious again...
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Panda - Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:57 pm
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Hmm...has anyon ever evoked/invoked Barbatos, Goetic number 8? Oh, and I picked Bael, because I've heard some pretty nasty stuff about him. Never evoked/invoked a demon before, though.
-Amber <3
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Redeemer - Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:58 am
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I wouldn't say it is necessarily harder to Evoke a more powerful spirit, only to control them.
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ShangTsung - Tue Jul 29, 2003 11:44 am
Post subject: Most dangerous Goetia spirit? Everyone vote please!
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In your opinion, what is the most dangerous goetia spirit to the invoker?
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Dakini - Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:34 am
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I think every demon in the goetia is equally dangeous to invoke, if one does not take the adequate precautionary measures......
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Ronny - Wed Jul 30, 2003 3:20 am
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I managed to contact Bael one night. It actually did screw me up for a while. I had my mind but for a while it was like it wasen't mine. I clearly remember thinking "this vessel is acceptable yes most acceptable". For a while my whole manner changed. For some reason he wanted me to sacrifice cats to him. He was angry at me when I denied him. I believe I was under his influince. It lingered and was difficult to banish as it kept returning. I would suggest not invoking him even if you take precautionary measures. He is an ancient god and very powerful. I admit I still feel attached to him in a sick sort of way, like he's an old friend I can't help but love. As for the others I have relativly little experience and won't be experimenting with invocing them, out of respect, and out of fear of losing control of my mind.
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Caradoc - Wed Jul 30, 2003 4:54 am
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Hmmm..... no option for "All of them."
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LordSteelFisT - Wed Jul 30, 2003 7:08 am
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I dont no if this is theright place to ask this but can some tell me what goetia spirits are?
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etadich - Wed Jul 30, 2003 7:47 am
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72 spirits indexed and subdued by King Solomon.
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Harry Keogh - Wed Jul 30, 2003 11:46 am
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I am not a practioner of Ceremonial magick but none the less have studied the goetia and works simular to it .. from what i can understand certainly one of the most powerfull of the 72 infernal spirits invoked and then imprisoned by K Sol is an entity that answer to the name of Aamon amongst others ...
Amon, or Aamon, is a great and mightie marques, and commeth abroad in the likenes of a woolfe, having a serpents taile, [vomiting] flames of fier; when he putteth on the shape of a man, he sheweth out dogs teeth, and a great head like to a mightie [night hawk]; he is the strongest prince of all other, and understandeth of all things past and to come, he procureth favor, and reconcileth both freends and foes, and ruleth fourtie legions of divels.He commands forty legions, and was the supreme diety of the Egyptians, who had blue skin in human form.
Quoted from Pseudomonarchia daemonum - Johann Wier (1583)
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Harry Keogh - Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:11 pm
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After some brief reading which has refreshed my memory slightly it has become apparent to me that as previously mentioned by Dakini, most of the goetic spirits hold much power and all offer simular attributes and abilities but must be given the respect they deserve for they can be dangerous to the invoker or excorist concerned..
Beleth seems to be the one of the most superior and demmands the most honour or respect from what i can tell ...but once again they all seem fairly capable ..
Bileth is a great king and a terrible, riding on a pale horsse, before whome go trumpets, and all kind of melodious musicke. When he is called up by an exorcist, he appeareth rough and furious, to deceive him. Then let the exorcist or conjuror take heed to himself; and to allaje his courage, let him hold a hazell bat in his hand, wherewithall he must reach out toward the east and south, and make a triangle without besides the circle; but if he hold not out his hand unto him, and he bid him come in, and he still refuse the bond or chain of spirits; let the conjuror proceed to reading, and by and by he will submit himselfe, and come in, and doo whatsoever the exorcist commandeth him, and he shalbe safe. If Bileth the king be more stubborne, and refuse to enter into the circle at the first call, and the conjuror shew himselfe fearfull, or if he have not the chaine of spirits, certeinelie he will never feare nor regard him after. Also, if the place he unapt for a triangle to be made without the circle, then set there a boll of wine, and the exorcist shall certeinlie knowe when he commeth out of his house, with his fellowes, and that the foresaid Bileth will be his helper, his friend, and obedient unto him when he commeth foorth. And when he commeth, let the exorcist receive him courteouslie, and glorifie him in his pride, and therfore he shall adore him as other kings doo, bicause he saith nothing without other princes. Also, if he be cited by an exorcist, alwaies a silver ring of the middle finger of the left hand must be held against the exorcists face, as they doo for Amaimon. And the dominion and power of so great a prince is not to be pretermitted; for there is none under the power & dominion of the conjuror, but he that deteineth both men and women in doting love, till the exorcist hath had his pleasure. He is of the orders of powers, hoping to returne to the seaventh throne, which is not altogether credible, and he ruleth eightie five legions.
Pseudomonarchia daemonum - Johann Wier (1583)
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Elemental2012 - Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:02 am
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ME
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feranaja - Fri Aug 01, 2003 6:44 am
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I'd say Zepar or Gremory because they are the ones unprepared people
are most likely to try and invoke. But I agreethey are all extremely dangerous..
feranaja
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NuHad418 - Fri Aug 01, 2003 7:08 am
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feranaja wrote:
I'd say Zepar or Gremory because they are the ones unprepared people
are most likely to try and invoke. But I agreethey are all extremely dangerous..
feranaja
ah...good ol Zepar!
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feranaja - Fri Aug 01, 2003 7:15 am
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Seems I haven't quite lost him yet...
Live and learn...or not...
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ShangTsung - Fri Aug 01, 2003 9:46 am
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NuHad418 wrote:
feranaja wrote:
I'd say Zepar or Gremory because they are the ones unprepared people
are most likely to try and invoke. But I agreethey are all extremely dangerous..
feranaja
ah...good ol Zepar!
What, many new people try to invoke Zepar/Gremory first?
Why?
I see many people use magic as an easy way to get laid (Zepar).
C'mon, cant they could be more creative!
Why are gremory/zepar dangerous? What can they (Zepar, Gremory) possibly do???
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feranaja - Fri Aug 01, 2003 9:56 am
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That's a rather crude way of putting it...I invoked Zepar not as an easy way to get laid but because I ws basically out of control - intoxicated - with magic and had lost my centre so I thought it was fine to do stuff like that. I'm a Priestess of Aphrodite and so Zepar seemed an obvious choice, especially since I was doing the operation with my lover at that time (who was also insane, possibly more than I was even).
I have heard of instances where people think ofinvoking both these Demons because they have rotten love lifes, but that wasn't my inspiration personally.
Zepar nearly drove me mad and almost wrecked my life. The details aren't important, just the lesson.
A word to the wise...
feranaja, who learned humilityand common sense the hard way
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Batnose - Wed Aug 06, 2003 1:29 pm
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Furcas - the only Knight
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ShangTsung - Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:04 pm
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Batnose wrote:
Furcas - the only Knight
If I may ask.
WHY?
His rank is the lowest if not the lowest.
I can see why Belial/Bael/Asmoday/Paimon/Beleth/Purson/Vine/Zagan would be dangerous (they are too high up the food chain).
Furcas only teaches things, he doesnot have any "whack him" kind of abilities.
please reply.
thank you very much.
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Leo Vergerus - Fri Aug 15, 2003 2:04 pm
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I think Andras is probably the most dangerous goetic spirit.
In almost every text on Goetia there is a warning about his "speciality" :
killing who summon it
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hitman777 - Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:36 pm
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I think that Larry or Cletus are definetly the most dangerous. Oh, wait wrong guys. I think the ones that get billed as nice are as dangerous as the meanies.
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Frater Neshama - Sun Sep 21, 2003 10:31 am
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All of them !!!!
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Captator - Sun Sep 21, 2003 10:36 am
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I have never evoked anything because my attitude is contained within this text.
Liber Libræ
Sub Figura XXX
The Book of the Balance
0. Learn first - Oh thou who aspirest unto our ancient Order! - that Equilibrium is the basis of the Work. If thou thyself hast not a sure foundation, whereon wilt thou stand to direct the forces of Nature?
I don't feel very balanced yet. I might try it when i feel that im in harmony with the forces of the universe.
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Batnose - Sun Sep 21, 2003 11:38 am
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Quote:
Batnose wrote:
Furcas - the only Knight
If I may ask.
WHY?
His rank is the lowest if not the lowest....
Furcas only teaches things, he doesnot have any "whack him" kind of abilities.
please reply.
Assumptions, only assumptions.
Furcas is the only 'Saturnian' spirit. Saturn is described as an exacting astrological influence. Some actually call it the 'Greater Malefic.'
The only anecdote I've ever seen about summoning Furcas led to a 'minor explosion.' (Steve Savedow, 'Goetic Evocation,' Eschaton Publishing)
My views have changed radically since I posted that speculation. Don't take it too seriously.
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Master of the Abyss - Mon Sep 22, 2003 9:05 am
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I evoked Furcas yesterday, and I'm fine. He is Saturnian, but more of the philosopher and wise-man Saturn aspect than the death aspect. There actually are several other goetics who could be described as Saturnian, Glasya-Labolas or Focalor for example. Their influence is surely deathlike and, in my experience, makes banishing more obviously necessary than many other goetics.
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I AM - Mon Sep 22, 2003 7:29 pm
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feranaja wrote:
That's a rather crude way of putting it...I invoked Zepar not as an easy way to get laid but because I ws basically out of control - intoxicated - with magic and had lost my centre so I thought it was fine to do stuff like that. I'm a Priestess of Aphrodite and so Zepar seemed an obvious choice, especially since I was doing the operation with my lover at that time (who was also insane, possibly more than I was even).
I have heard of instances where people think ofinvoking both these Demons because they have rotten love lifes, but that wasn't my inspiration personally.
Zepar nearly drove me mad and almost wrecked my life. The details aren't important, just the lesson.
A word to the wise...
feranaja, who learned humilityand common sense the hard way
Ah, the old invoking Demon thing. You are lucky feranaja. It could have been worse. Much, much worse.
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Baphometr418 - Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:13 am
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All I can say is that I downloaded all the images I could find one night after work of the Goetic demons (for a film project incidently) and the next day (deadline day for the fund I ws applying to) my computer, printer, cell phone and one other computer broke down. There was a bunch of other stuff too. For about 48 hrs I was plagued by the most bizzarre technology failings I have ever in my life seen. Coincidence perhaps. But bizzarre non the less.
Besides that I know NOTHING about goetia except the basic guff everyone knows.
I'm guessing but....they're probably all very worthy of careful respect.
If for nothing other than their age.
Baphometr418
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Batnose - Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:01 pm
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Baphometr
Ever since I began active work with the Goetia, strange phenomena has been a common occurance. It has usually manifested in electrical and electronic systems; i.e. intermittant 'problems' that I can find no rational explanation for even though I've worked with electronics deeply for 20 years. I have read of this type of manifestation from other Goetic practitioners. Wonder why the electromagnetic is their 'poltergiest mechanism' of choice?
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hitman777 - Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:15 pm
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Not sure, but I would concur with this. Maybe it's because I got into the Goetia too early, I don't know. Or maybe it has to do with the type of energies they consist of.
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dezmon - Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:29 am
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how do u go about invoking demons coz i would love to see belial dunno why but still......oh yeh and where can i find text or books on the lesser keys of solomon plz
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I AM - Fri Jan 02, 2004 9:22 am
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dezmon wrote:
how do u go about invoking demons coz i would love to see belial dunno why but still......oh yeh and where can i find text or books on the lesser keys of solomon plz
Have you tried looking the the Foundations of CM topic or the Newbie resources in this Forum. If not go there first.
Humbly, I AM
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hitman777 - Sat Jan 03, 2004 2:03 am
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EVOKE, not INVOKE. I am not trying to play idiotic word games, but they are two VERY different things. Offhand I really can't think of any good reason to call a demon INTO you. I can also tell you from past experience that it is a bad idea.
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Cernunnos - Sat Jan 03, 2004 3:20 am
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To answer the question of which spirit is most dangerous...none of them if invoked or evoked correctly. If something goes wrong, it's the magus's fault, not the spirit or God/dess.
If you can define what you mean by "dangerous" and to whom the danger lies with this, then we could have an actual discussion because all the spirits can be dangerous to anyone. Many can give familiars and you can demad that the familiar goes off can kills your enemy or you can piss off the wrong spirit and have all their legions and their fellow [Goetic] spirit friends to not like you (do you think they ever talk amongst themselves?)
hitman777 wrote:
EVOKE, not INVOKE. I am not trying to play idiotic word games, but they are two VERY different things.
Oh, is that the case? Well yes, evoke is different than invoke, but you might want to take a look at this site and tell me why they quote the Goetia to bare the word "Invocateth" under spirit #4 Gamigin...
www.esotericarchives.com/solomon/goetia.htm
Quote:
Offhand I really can't think of any good reason to call a demon INTO you.
Crowley invoked a demon (forget which one) into him when he was in the desert. He did that so the demon could speak through him and pass on his knowledge. Doesn't sound like a bad idea to me, especially seeing that Crowley was doing it because he was one of the guys that translated the Goetia in the first place.
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Oth - Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:36 am
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Cernunnos wrote:
Crowley invoked a demon (forget which one) into him when he was in the desert. He did that so the demon could speak through him and pass on his knowledge. Doesn't sound like a bad idea to me, especially seeing that Crowley was doing it because he was one of the guys that translated the Goetia in the first place.
Choronzon - just before he attacked Neuberg.
Oth
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Oth - Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:40 am
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Cernunnos wrote:
Crowley invoked a demon (forget which one) into him when he was in the desert. He did that so the demon could speak through him and pass on his knowledge. Doesn't sound like a bad idea to me, especially seeing that Crowley was doing it because he was one of the guys that translated the Goetia in the first place.
Choronzon (who is not goetian) - just before he attacked Neuberg, wasn't it?
Crowley only did some light editing and added a tiny bit of material to Mathers "translation" of the goetia.
Oth
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WrathfulSpatula - Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:32 pm
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I haven't evoked most of the demons on that list, but I thought I'd mention that I've recently dealt with Beleth, and it was actually an extremely positive experience. He's very demanding at times and feels incredibly strong relative to most of the other demons I've evoked, but I think if you're ready and eager to hear what he has to say, and are willing to go the extra mile and really do up right any rituals that involve him, he's quite amicable and well-intentioned. Not that you should slack off during ANY ritual, but Beleth really appreciates and requires some especial treatment. As was mentioned earlier, any harm that comes from these rituals is the practioner's fault, not the evoked entities', but when treated with a high, but reasonable, modicum of respect and openness, Beleth isn't out to hurt anyone--quite the contrary, actually.
I also thought I'd suggest adding Gaap to the list. The entity has a number of different sides, and can definitely be positive to work with. Unfortunately, it seems to vascillate constantly in all my dealings with it, and it's ugly sides are some of the ugliest I've ever seen...
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_Dennis_ - Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:43 am
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andaras... for some on who kill his follows , yes...
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Azalin - Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:55 am
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According to certain sources Belial is another name of Satan.
Is this correct? In that case he would SEEM to be the most dangerous.
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blackarts34 - Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:10 pm
EREMONIAL MAGICK
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I agree with Azalin that Belial would be the most dangerous. Its according to the Dead Sea Scrolls that Belial is synonmous with Satan.
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snowtiger88 - Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:40 am
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i want to do all this but i dont know where to begin can anyone help me on finding a book or website that would help with these teachings , is it possible to invoke all 72 ?
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Astral Alien - Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:27 am
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snowtiger88 wrote:
i want to do all this but i dont know where to begin can anyone help me on finding a book or website that would help with these teachings , is it possible to invoke all 72 ?
I presume you are trying to "evoke", not "invoke" them. These two words are similar but invoking is into you, evoking is outside you.
Try getting a copy of the lesser key of solomon, i suppose you can find it at amazon.com or simply download it online, and "summoning spirits" by Konstantinos. The latter is very much recommended for evoking most spirits even those not goetic.
Pardon me for asking, but :
Why do you want to evoke all 72!?
Each spirit has its own abilities and I don't see a need to evoke all, unless you are trying something I probably didn't understood
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Fetus - Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:25 am
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I would say do not invoke these beings, I understand you probably meant evoke but confused the two words . do you mean all of them over a long period ot time?
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Anonymous - Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:36 pm
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Belaial Astaroth would be scary to summon.
Satan Pschhh waste of time summoning him Im told.
Weak demon on the bottom level of hades.
Belaial is on the sixth aswell as astaroth so would def be more scary.
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snowtiger88 - Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:07 pm
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yes could you evoke also , but i also meant invoke becuase to have all of them in you would be an exsperience , dont you have to serve the one you evoke after you die or is that just invoking ? Where am i supossed to draw these circles when i live in an arpt with rugs
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blackarts34 - Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:59 pm
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Snowtiger88, to invoke all 72 Goetia spirits at once would be suicide. The thing about having to serve the one you evoke after you die is nonsense. Your question about the circle I would say look at the foundations of ceremonial magick in this forum. It has alot of good information about the things your asking about.
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snowtiger88 - Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:31 am
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is there some way i could get maybe a teacher to help me do these tasks and show me the proper way for many things or do people not do that i could learn it on my own but it would be faster with others ,,, also no1 has answered me about envoking 72 ? all the readings and instructions on the other forum pages arnt has helpfull as the people in here
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snowtiger88 - Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:36 am
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my AIM is devilgod88666
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blackarts34 - Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:54 pm
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Ok Snowtiger one can evoke all 72 spirits of the Goetia but not all at once, that would be insane. As a general rule its unwise to invoke any demon. Its can be done but why would you want one inside of you? There are alot of basics you have to ground yourself in before you can start any kind of invocation or evocation. Working with a teacher will not gurantee that your going to learn any of this faster. Much of the work you have to do on your own. Once again go back to the foundations of ceremonial magick and study the topics listed there. I can tell what to do but if you have no understanding of the basics you will get no results. There is no way around doing the research and the work. I would suggest the study and practice of the Lesser Banishing Ritulal Of The Pentegram as a starting point.
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goetiagirl - Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:02 pm
Post subject: Zepar
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I have a quick question. I tried to evoke Sallos yesterday...he didn't come through very strongly...I had to also evoke Orobas for something else...while Orobas was there (or I thought he was there I didn't see him but heard him in my mind) he told me Sallos would not help me and I should call Zepar instead. Why do you suppose he'd say that...I've never attempted Zepar for obvious reasons...is he ever 'ok' when he shows up or with him are there always ramificaitons? Thanks.
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goetiagirl - Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:09 pm
Post subject: Zepar
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I have a quick question. I tried to evoke Sallos yesterday...he didn't come through very strongly...I had to also evoke Orobas for something else...while Orobas was there (or I thought he was there I didn't see him but heard him in my mind) he told me Sallos would not help me and I should call Zepar instead. Why do you suppose he'd say that...I've never attempted Zepar for obvious reasons...is he ever 'ok' when he shows up or with him are there always ramificaitons? Thanks.
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blackarts34 - Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:30 pm
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Hey Goetiagirl, I don't know what kind of relationship you have with Orobas but i think he was just trying to help you out by suggesting an alternative spririt. I ran into something similiar when I tried to evoke Gremory, she was being extremely difficult. After several weeks I evoked Andramalius and he said though it is possible to make Gremory submit I would have a much easier time employing someone else. I didn't take him up on his advice. I was intent on Gremory for some reason but she was defiant to the end and my operation was pretty much a failure. I've never evoked Zepar so I can't comment on him. If you decide to evoke him I'd be really insterested to hear how that went.
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snowtiger88 - Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:53 am
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say you had followers to a certin degree , 72 to be exact if you could get all 72 to invoke a diff spirit tech you could use them all if you had the control over the people as well so wouldnt you sort of in a way be like king solomon ? jw no reason
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KKT - Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:41 pm
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The evocation of all 72 is a key part of some Traditions, if i remember correctly
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Kallisti - Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:49 pm
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There are a zillion Goetia threads going right now, so I figured I'd just post this on the most active one. I'm curious (and this question is addressed to those who have actually worked with several different spirits from the Goetia), how big a factor is the spirit's rank is in the success of the evocation? Is it harder to get the attention of a King than of a Knight or Earl? Obviously the traditional methods for evoking higher-ranking spirits reqire mmore expensive metals for constructing the seals. Any takers?
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hitman777 - Thu Mar 25, 2004 9:41 am
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In answer to Kallisti's question, no not really. Ive had trouble evoking Marchosias one of the times I tried, but I got Bael to manifest with ease. It really has nothing to do with rank.
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blackarts34 - Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:02 pm
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I agree with Hitman.
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hitman777 - Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:04 pm
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I was just trying to answer a question, not appear stupid! Wah, waaah!
Sorry, back to being serious again...
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Panda - Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:57 pm
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Hmm...has anyon ever evoked/invoked Barbatos, Goetic number 8? Oh, and I picked Bael, because I've heard some pretty nasty stuff about him. Never evoked/invoked a demon before, though.
-Amber <3
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Redeemer - Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:58 am
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I wouldn't say it is necessarily harder to Evoke a more powerful spirit, only to control them.
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