Original post: Saecula_Saeculorum
Just wanted to get everyone's opinion on practicing an evocation together (e.g., Kelly and Dee, et al.) I am fortunate enough to not only have a boyfriend that tolerates my occult and magickal practices, he walks the path as well. Currently we're focused on individual magickal development, of course, but at some point in the future we both want to perform evocations.
So, do you think that performing a joint evocation, as it were, is a bad idea? Would it sabotage the working, or work towards its detriment in any way? Priests have deacons, and it doesn't negate the magical effects of The Mass; the Key of Solomon has a chapter on "How the Companions or Disciples of the Master of the Art Should Keep and Govern Themselves", et cetera, so I can't see any inherent faux pas.
Nevertheless, I'd like opinions.
Practicing Together?
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Original post: Ashnook
I dont think there should be a problem at all as long as BOTH of you are PRACTICING occultists. Note that Lady Hydralisk often practices with other mages. Crowley practiced with other mages, etc, etc. Just make sure BOTH of you are able to banish and protect yourselves.
I dont think there should be a problem at all as long as BOTH of you are PRACTICING occultists. Note that Lady Hydralisk often practices with other mages. Crowley practiced with other mages, etc, etc. Just make sure BOTH of you are able to banish and protect yourselves.
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Original post: Master of the Abyss
Working together will not sabotage the working. It will make it more complex and probably more fragile (if one person wants to quit, the ritual has to end for all), but also much more powerful.
There is little literature on group ritual, and the bit of material that exists mostly covers Rosicrucian and Wiccan ritual, which means they are mostly concerned with giving everyone "offices" and following elaborate scripts that bore everyone to death. Group ritual of any real intensity is (in western magic) a practical art that you can learn in a magical order or (like most people do) re-invent to fit your specific needs.
Try to do some small rituals together first, such as LBRPs or LRHs. Get some experience with what works and what doesn't. Then get some more, and adapt whatever magic practices you are familiar with to a group (or couple) setting. When working together feels natural and useful, and you feel you can confront a demon together, there's nothing wrong with that.
Working together will not sabotage the working. It will make it more complex and probably more fragile (if one person wants to quit, the ritual has to end for all), but also much more powerful.
There is little literature on group ritual, and the bit of material that exists mostly covers Rosicrucian and Wiccan ritual, which means they are mostly concerned with giving everyone "offices" and following elaborate scripts that bore everyone to death. Group ritual of any real intensity is (in western magic) a practical art that you can learn in a magical order or (like most people do) re-invent to fit your specific needs.
Try to do some small rituals together first, such as LBRPs or LRHs. Get some experience with what works and what doesn't. Then get some more, and adapt whatever magic practices you are familiar with to a group (or couple) setting. When working together feels natural and useful, and you feel you can confront a demon together, there's nothing wrong with that.
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Original post: kirk88
I don't know if it will be more powerful it depends, it can be messy though if you guys are not at the same level.
I don't know if it will be more powerful it depends, it can be messy though if you guys are not at the same level.
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Original post: Sarx
My group does a fair bit of polarity work in ritual (not sex magic). A very helpful book that lead to great productive discussion was writtten by gareth knight and dion fortune : The Circuit of Force (more specifically, it's a colleciton of dion fortune's unpublished essays, followed by commentaries by knight to update information). If it is read thoughtfully and critically, it provides great insights into how couples can work together. The knight/Fortune book on spiritualism may address your interests in evocation.
(for that matter: the whole Knight/Fortune series are a must read
http://www.angelfire.com/az/garethknight/gkbooks.html)
Meanwhile, you might want to really focus on shared pathworking skills.
Best wishes to you both.
Good luck on your journey
My group does a fair bit of polarity work in ritual (not sex magic). A very helpful book that lead to great productive discussion was writtten by gareth knight and dion fortune : The Circuit of Force (more specifically, it's a colleciton of dion fortune's unpublished essays, followed by commentaries by knight to update information). If it is read thoughtfully and critically, it provides great insights into how couples can work together. The knight/Fortune book on spiritualism may address your interests in evocation.
(for that matter: the whole Knight/Fortune series are a must read
http://www.angelfire.com/az/garethknight/gkbooks.html)
Meanwhile, you might want to really focus on shared pathworking skills.
Best wishes to you both.
Good luck on your journey
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Original post: Fraulein Meow
I've done a number of evocations with others. The difficulty is more in deciding how you're going to work the evocation between you than anything else. There are 2 distinct ways of doing it.
1. One person evokes, the other "seers". In this case the seer doesn't actually do any ritual (other than the preliminary and closing banishings, with the evoker). I suggest switching roles often (but not within the course of one ritual!) - it's good for both people to develope the skills of both the evoker and the seer.
2. Both magician's evoks AND communicate with the spirit. The evocation in this case will be stronger, as both you and your partner's energy will combine. I've succesfully done this many times - the interesting thing is when you both compare your experiences afterwards. I've inevitably found that there are always certain similarities and certain differences. The evoked spirit will often look very similar to both parties (this has been the case with me even when evoking spirits for which we had no previous visual description), the communication will often be suited to each individual and so different for both participants. There are often similarities even in that though.
I did an evocation of Aratron, the Olympic Spirit of Saturn, with my girlfriend once - we were trying (half succesfully) to get him to come to us in dreams and teach us about magic and alchemy. The dream thing worked OK, but wasn't completely satisfactory. We did, however, each get a very useful lecture from the spirit on spiritual alchemy at the time of the evocation. We each got a different lecture (each containing information new to both of us), but each time our thoughts wandered or we tried to interrupt the spirit to ask questions the spirit would sternly repremand us by raising his hand and demanding "Silence!". After the ritual, we had both written this down seperately in our journals before talking with each other about what had happened. I've found this sort of thing to be quite common with partnered evocations.
One piece of advice - I don't know why so many people are so hopped up on Goetia. It's great - but those spirits are not the best (in my opinion) ones to start with. They can be moody and difficult, sometimes dangerous. Starting with the planetary intelligences, enochian lesser angels and seniors, olympic planetary spirits, or even the sepherotic archangels might be better - start with the friendly ones, then work your way up to the more difficult ones.
Good luck,
Fraulein Meow
I've done a number of evocations with others. The difficulty is more in deciding how you're going to work the evocation between you than anything else. There are 2 distinct ways of doing it.
1. One person evokes, the other "seers". In this case the seer doesn't actually do any ritual (other than the preliminary and closing banishings, with the evoker). I suggest switching roles often (but not within the course of one ritual!) - it's good for both people to develope the skills of both the evoker and the seer.
2. Both magician's evoks AND communicate with the spirit. The evocation in this case will be stronger, as both you and your partner's energy will combine. I've succesfully done this many times - the interesting thing is when you both compare your experiences afterwards. I've inevitably found that there are always certain similarities and certain differences. The evoked spirit will often look very similar to both parties (this has been the case with me even when evoking spirits for which we had no previous visual description), the communication will often be suited to each individual and so different for both participants. There are often similarities even in that though.
I did an evocation of Aratron, the Olympic Spirit of Saturn, with my girlfriend once - we were trying (half succesfully) to get him to come to us in dreams and teach us about magic and alchemy. The dream thing worked OK, but wasn't completely satisfactory. We did, however, each get a very useful lecture from the spirit on spiritual alchemy at the time of the evocation. We each got a different lecture (each containing information new to both of us), but each time our thoughts wandered or we tried to interrupt the spirit to ask questions the spirit would sternly repremand us by raising his hand and demanding "Silence!". After the ritual, we had both written this down seperately in our journals before talking with each other about what had happened. I've found this sort of thing to be quite common with partnered evocations.
One piece of advice - I don't know why so many people are so hopped up on Goetia. It's great - but those spirits are not the best (in my opinion) ones to start with. They can be moody and difficult, sometimes dangerous. Starting with the planetary intelligences, enochian lesser angels and seniors, olympic planetary spirits, or even the sepherotic archangels might be better - start with the friendly ones, then work your way up to the more difficult ones.
Good luck,
Fraulein Meow