Original post: Redeemer
The purpose of this thread is to discuss whether or not you think the Simon necro is real or fake. Any factual evidence for or against it's authenticity can be posted here. Also feel free to discuss the ramifications of it's authenticity as well. IE, if it is fake, why does it work etc.
The validity or lack thereof of the Simon Necronomicon
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The validity or lack thereof of the Simon Necronomicon
Original post: pilgrim
The idea behind the idea is what propels the symbols behind such experiences. The essence flows through all manner of creative symbols, it is what one chooses to use for ones own creative purpose on the material or astral that creates for oneself a moment of clarity.
The above paragraph sounds good but it is not quite what you wanted to hear... this is simons necronomicon.
The idea behind the idea is what propels the symbols behind such experiences. The essence flows through all manner of creative symbols, it is what one chooses to use for ones own creative purpose on the material or astral that creates for oneself a moment of clarity.
The above paragraph sounds good but it is not quite what you wanted to hear... this is simons necronomicon.
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The validity or lack thereof of the Simon Necronomicon
Original post: Hairetikos
It is real in the sense that the system of magic contained in the book does indeed work.
It is fake in the sense that it is not the Necronomicon that Lovecraft wrote of in his works. It is a fabrication that is loosely based on Lovecraft's mythos.
Here is a link to a good site on the Necronomicon. It's got lots of information on different Necronomicons and discusses the validity of the whole franchise.
It is real in the sense that the system of magic contained in the book does indeed work.
It is fake in the sense that it is not the Necronomicon that Lovecraft wrote of in his works. It is a fabrication that is loosely based on Lovecraft's mythos.
Here is a link to a good site on the Necronomicon. It's got lots of information on different Necronomicons and discusses the validity of the whole franchise.
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The validity or lack thereof of the Simon Necronomicon
Original post: Fr. Qim
Agreed. Personally I think the Necronomicon is a complete work of fiction. However, it is a workable magickal system none the less. In some cases it is actually more complete than many "real" magickal system fragments. I do have some concerns about it however. It's system seems hinged around certain concepts of supernatural horror and the inability of man to cope with said experiences. To have this built into a system seems to me a dangerous thing. It is even more dangerous in that it is a covert foundation of the material and not explicit per se.
I have further heard from people that traditional banishing rituals do not seem to work on Necro entities. Although I have never worked with said entities, and do not plan to do so, I theorize that this is more a function of the individual than the entities. However, the concept does have some interesting implications. I would be curious to see how they respond to the Star Ruby.
Ultimatly I must question the use of using the Necronomicon. I think it's use, safe or not, would depend more on the purity of the aspirations of the Magician, and his skill, than on any other factors.
Agreed. Personally I think the Necronomicon is a complete work of fiction. However, it is a workable magickal system none the less. In some cases it is actually more complete than many "real" magickal system fragments. I do have some concerns about it however. It's system seems hinged around certain concepts of supernatural horror and the inability of man to cope with said experiences. To have this built into a system seems to me a dangerous thing. It is even more dangerous in that it is a covert foundation of the material and not explicit per se.
I have further heard from people that traditional banishing rituals do not seem to work on Necro entities. Although I have never worked with said entities, and do not plan to do so, I theorize that this is more a function of the individual than the entities. However, the concept does have some interesting implications. I would be curious to see how they respond to the Star Ruby.
Ultimatly I must question the use of using the Necronomicon. I think it's use, safe or not, would depend more on the purity of the aspirations of the Magician, and his skill, than on any other factors.
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The validity or lack thereof of the Simon Necronomicon
Original post: Redeemer
I think it's use, safe or not, would depend more on the purity of the aspirations of the Magician, and his skill, than on any other factors.
Fr. Qim,
I could not have said it better myself.
I think it's use, safe or not, would depend more on the purity of the aspirations of the Magician, and his skill, than on any other factors.
Fr. Qim,
I could not have said it better myself.
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The validity or lack thereof of the Simon Necronomicon
Original post: Qryztufre
Before the last attack I posted this in a different necro thread. I think it fits here better then it did in the other so here ya go...
I think the Necro is a FAKE. In fact, I can not stand the book! But I will not bash it, as I *KNOW* it works, I know that the entities in side it ARE real. The book itself says that the banishings within will not work. I may have found out why (as I posted in the other thread dealing with necro banishings, saddly now gone).
Necro Version:
A CONJURATION AGAINST THE SEVEN LIERS-IN-WAIT
They are Seven
They are Seven
In the depths of the ocean, they are Seven
In the shining heavens, they are Seven
They proceed from the ocean depths
They proceed from the hidden retreat
They are neither male nor female
These which stretch themselves out like chains
They have no spouse
They beget not children
They are strangers to charity
They ignore prayers
They scoff at wishes
They are vermin that come forth from the Mountains of MASHU
Enemies of Our Master ENKI
They are the vengeance of the Ancient Ones
Raising up difficulties
Obtaining power through wickedness
The Enemies! The Enemies! The Seven Enemies!
They are Seven!
They are Seven!
They are Seven times Seven!
Spirit of the Sky, Remember! Spirit of the Earth, Remember!
Translation :
PRAYER AGAINST THE EVIL SPIRITS
Seven are they, seven are they
In the Ocean's deep seven are they
battening in heaven are they, (battening == gluttonous)
In the Ocean Deep as their home they were reared,
Nor male, nor female are they
They are as the roaming windblast
No wife have they, no son do they beget
Knowing neither mercy nor pity,
They hearken not unto prayer or suplication
They are as horses reared amoung the hills;
The evil ones of Enki
Thone-bearers to the gods are they
They stand in the highway to befoul the path
Evil are they, evil are they!
Seven are they, seven are they,
Twice seven are they!
By Heaven be ye Excorcised! (
By Earth be ye Exorcised!
It was taken from the - Utukki limnuti Tablet V lines 29-58 and translated by R.C. Thompson in the book Devils & Evil Sprits of Babylonia [1903] (pg 77).
As you can see the two are VERY similar, but very different at the same time. I am under the impression that the banishings do not work because they were changed, either by the editors (Simon & Co. from the NY bookstore) or were a mis-translation from the Mad Arab.
I've been too busy (lazy?) lately to hunt down the rest of the spells contained in the Necro, but I do plan on finding them & either posting or publishing my own version of the necro based on historical refereances rather then Lovecraftian involvement.
[/quote]
The 50 names are all pretty close, but most of them have a different description to them. The stories within the book have also been changed, some MAJORLY, others just a bit. Throughout the entire book names, places, and likely symbols have all been changed in one way or another from the more historical versions. But for some reason this book STILL works. If you'd like more examples of these changes I can likely give a few...but fer now I think you get the gist of this message so I'm letting it end here...
Before the last attack I posted this in a different necro thread. I think it fits here better then it did in the other so here ya go...
I think the Necro is a FAKE. In fact, I can not stand the book! But I will not bash it, as I *KNOW* it works, I know that the entities in side it ARE real. The book itself says that the banishings within will not work. I may have found out why (as I posted in the other thread dealing with necro banishings, saddly now gone).
Necro Version:
A CONJURATION AGAINST THE SEVEN LIERS-IN-WAIT
They are Seven
They are Seven
In the depths of the ocean, they are Seven
In the shining heavens, they are Seven
They proceed from the ocean depths
They proceed from the hidden retreat
They are neither male nor female
These which stretch themselves out like chains
They have no spouse
They beget not children
They are strangers to charity
They ignore prayers
They scoff at wishes
They are vermin that come forth from the Mountains of MASHU
Enemies of Our Master ENKI
They are the vengeance of the Ancient Ones
Raising up difficulties
Obtaining power through wickedness
The Enemies! The Enemies! The Seven Enemies!
They are Seven!
They are Seven!
They are Seven times Seven!
Spirit of the Sky, Remember! Spirit of the Earth, Remember!
Translation :
PRAYER AGAINST THE EVIL SPIRITS
Seven are they, seven are they
In the Ocean's deep seven are they
battening in heaven are they, (battening == gluttonous)
In the Ocean Deep as their home they were reared,
Nor male, nor female are they
They are as the roaming windblast
No wife have they, no son do they beget
Knowing neither mercy nor pity,
They hearken not unto prayer or suplication
They are as horses reared amoung the hills;
The evil ones of Enki
Thone-bearers to the gods are they
They stand in the highway to befoul the path
Evil are they, evil are they!
Seven are they, seven are they,
Twice seven are they!
By Heaven be ye Excorcised! (
By Earth be ye Exorcised!
It was taken from the - Utukki limnuti Tablet V lines 29-58 and translated by R.C. Thompson in the book Devils & Evil Sprits of Babylonia [1903] (pg 77).
As you can see the two are VERY similar, but very different at the same time. I am under the impression that the banishings do not work because they were changed, either by the editors (Simon & Co. from the NY bookstore) or were a mis-translation from the Mad Arab.
I've been too busy (lazy?) lately to hunt down the rest of the spells contained in the Necro, but I do plan on finding them & either posting or publishing my own version of the necro based on historical refereances rather then Lovecraftian involvement.
[/quote]
The 50 names are all pretty close, but most of them have a different description to them. The stories within the book have also been changed, some MAJORLY, others just a bit. Throughout the entire book names, places, and likely symbols have all been changed in one way or another from the more historical versions. But for some reason this book STILL works. If you'd like more examples of these changes I can likely give a few...but fer now I think you get the gist of this message so I'm letting it end here...