Original post: goetia
Hey i was just wondering, since many of the members in this forum r experienced with evocation of demons, do all of the demons in the lesser key of solomon live up to thier description, i mean wen the demon is evoked and asked for something to be done in his or her "office" are the demons able to do it, and do they always appear as their described....sorry for so much questions..but iv never done an evocation yet and dnt plan to in a long long time anyways i need as much info as possible before i do thanx
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Original post: Xæden
I'm not experienced compared to most, and I've never personally evoked anything, let alone a Goetic Demon, but from what I've heard you shouldn't take anything for granted. Don't expect the demon to behave exactly as described.
I'm not experienced compared to most, and I've never personally evoked anything, let alone a Goetic Demon, but from what I've heard you shouldn't take anything for granted. Don't expect the demon to behave exactly as described.
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Original post: Redeemer
I have found that the demon appears the same way every time. It is only people's perceptions that change. I'm not trying to be aloof when I say this. I am one of those who believes that demons exist outside and completely seperate from the magician. However, the way a demon is perceived depends on the persons experience, being the sum of all memories they have ever had in all incarnations. I think this is one of the most important things to know about controling them. For every entity evoked, there is an equal thoughtform in the mind. Latching on to this thought, identifying with the entity (not the same way you would in an invocation) will give you mastery over it.
I could rant on with some stupid analogies to make this entertaining, but you get the point. By the way, don't take this as gospel. It is only my opinion and is subject to change with or without warning at my discretion.
I have found that the demon appears the same way every time. It is only people's perceptions that change. I'm not trying to be aloof when I say this. I am one of those who believes that demons exist outside and completely seperate from the magician. However, the way a demon is perceived depends on the persons experience, being the sum of all memories they have ever had in all incarnations. I think this is one of the most important things to know about controling them. For every entity evoked, there is an equal thoughtform in the mind. Latching on to this thought, identifying with the entity (not the same way you would in an invocation) will give you mastery over it.
I could rant on with some stupid analogies to make this entertaining, but you get the point. By the way, don't take this as gospel. It is only my opinion and is subject to change with or without warning at my discretion.
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Original post: LadyHydralisk
Yes they have stated their abilities in the affirmative as compared to the translated english text, and the ones I have had experience with have expressed their lack of ability or willingness to do things they are not said to be able to do. For instance Marbas would not grant political favor nor tell the future, that is the only instance where I have asked a demon to do something not written of in their text (I had forgotten the text). They do not always appear as described, but they will (hopefully) appear as you order them to appear, for instance, a fair human shape, as the traditional call goes.
Yes they have stated their abilities in the affirmative as compared to the translated english text, and the ones I have had experience with have expressed their lack of ability or willingness to do things they are not said to be able to do. For instance Marbas would not grant political favor nor tell the future, that is the only instance where I have asked a demon to do something not written of in their text (I had forgotten the text). They do not always appear as described, but they will (hopefully) appear as you order them to appear, for instance, a fair human shape, as the traditional call goes.
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Original post: goetia
Thanx for your input...ill keep that in mind n.n Anybody else have any comments??
Thanx for your input...ill keep that in mind n.n Anybody else have any comments??
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Original post: hitman777
Sorath, technically not a goetic spirit, but a solar spirit, is the only spirit I can think of offhand that actually put up a fight with the "comely and human shape." He did it, but kept changing trying to scare me or jar me or whatever. It is important to firm.
Sorath, technically not a goetic spirit, but a solar spirit, is the only spirit I can think of offhand that actually put up a fight with the "comely and human shape." He did it, but kept changing trying to scare me or jar me or whatever. It is important to firm.
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Original post: Nicholas777
[QUOTE=comedian777]Sorath, technically not a goetic spirit, but a solar spirit, is the only spirit I can think of offhand that actually put up a fight with the "comely and human shape." He did it, but kept changing trying to scare me or jar me or whatever. It is important to firm.[/QUOTE]
You were able to contain him? For what purpose? How?
Nicholas
[QUOTE=comedian777]Sorath, technically not a goetic spirit, but a solar spirit, is the only spirit I can think of offhand that actually put up a fight with the "comely and human shape." He did it, but kept changing trying to scare me or jar me or whatever. It is important to firm.[/QUOTE]
You were able to contain him? For what purpose? How?
Nicholas
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Original post: Grab
"goetia", why don't you just evoke them and ask them yourself? your demon might or might not be the same as mine.
never mind that pompous talk about having to practice for years and years, just do it. just make sure you banish.
"goetia", why don't you just evoke them and ask them yourself? your demon might or might not be the same as mine.
never mind that pompous talk about having to practice for years and years, just do it. just make sure you banish.
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Original post: hitman777
Nicholas, I did a pretty straightforward Goetia style evocation. I used Sorath's sigil, no mirror, just a standard Triangle. I wrote it on the floor in chalk. I evoked him pretty much how you would any spirit. He manifested to both my physical and astral sight, and at times flickered out of one, being visible only to the other, back and forth. He changed forms almost constantly, and during some of these sort of poured out of the triangle. It was definetly one of my weirdest experiences with an evoked entity. He also kept asking me to spit or urinate on him from the Circle. He would clam up only to babble about things I didn't ask about. He was difficult to control.
Nicholas, I did a pretty straightforward Goetia style evocation. I used Sorath's sigil, no mirror, just a standard Triangle. I wrote it on the floor in chalk. I evoked him pretty much how you would any spirit. He manifested to both my physical and astral sight, and at times flickered out of one, being visible only to the other, back and forth. He changed forms almost constantly, and during some of these sort of poured out of the triangle. It was definetly one of my weirdest experiences with an evoked entity. He also kept asking me to spit or urinate on him from the Circle. He would clam up only to babble about things I didn't ask about. He was difficult to control.
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Original post: Nicholas777
[QUOTE=comedian777]Nicholas, I did a pretty straightforward Goetia style evocation. I used Sorath's sigil, no mirror, just a standard Triangle. I wrote it on the floor in chalk. I evoked him pretty much how you would any spirit. He manifested to both my physical and astral sight, and at times flickered out of one, being visible only to the other, back and forth. He changed forms almost constantly, and during some of these sort of poured out of the triangle. It was definetly one of my weirdest experiences with an evoked entity. He also kept asking me to spit or urinate on him from the Circle. He would clam up only to babble about things I didn't ask about. He was difficult to control.[/QUOTE]
i read bad things about him in "pacts with the devil".
Nicholas
[QUOTE=comedian777]Nicholas, I did a pretty straightforward Goetia style evocation. I used Sorath's sigil, no mirror, just a standard Triangle. I wrote it on the floor in chalk. I evoked him pretty much how you would any spirit. He manifested to both my physical and astral sight, and at times flickered out of one, being visible only to the other, back and forth. He changed forms almost constantly, and during some of these sort of poured out of the triangle. It was definetly one of my weirdest experiences with an evoked entity. He also kept asking me to spit or urinate on him from the Circle. He would clam up only to babble about things I didn't ask about. He was difficult to control.[/QUOTE]
i read bad things about him in "pacts with the devil".
Nicholas
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Original post: Thalassa
So for example, it is written in the Goetia that some spirits can grant you with lots of riches, some so called supernatural abilities. Does anyone know about this?
So for example, it is written in the Goetia that some spirits can grant you with lots of riches, some so called supernatural abilities. Does anyone know about this?
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Original post: JRJ26
i've heard the name Sorath before. Where is he from(as in which grimoire, system, etc.)?
i've heard the name Sorath before. Where is he from(as in which grimoire, system, etc.)?
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Original post: hitman777
Sorath is the spirit of the Sun. Not the Olympic spirit, just the spirit.
Each planet has an archangel, an angel, an intelligence, and a spirit, in descending order, apparently, of authority.
Sorath is the spirit of the Sun. Not the Olympic spirit, just the spirit.
Each planet has an archangel, an angel, an intelligence, and a spirit, in descending order, apparently, of authority.
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Original post: Grab
That reminds me: I've never seen a good explanation of the difference between the "intelligence" and the "spirit" of the different planets, and which one to use for what..
Anyone knows?
That reminds me: I've never seen a good explanation of the difference between the "intelligence" and the "spirit" of the different planets, and which one to use for what..
Anyone knows?
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Original post: goetia
[QUOTE=Thalassa]So for example, it is written in the Goetia that some spirits can grant you with lots of riches, some so called supernatural abilities. Does anyone know about this?[/QUOTE]
Im not sure, but thats sorta why i posted this thread, to find out exactly wat your asking. Im possitive somebody could tell us thier experiences with thier evocations....hmmm
[QUOTE=Thalassa]So for example, it is written in the Goetia that some spirits can grant you with lots of riches, some so called supernatural abilities. Does anyone know about this?[/QUOTE]
Im not sure, but thats sorta why i posted this thread, to find out exactly wat your asking. Im possitive somebody could tell us thier experiences with thier evocations....hmmm
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Original post: Kinjo
Yes, anybody you know, or even yourself have ever got rich because of the demons? Without making pacts off course. How would that happen? I don't think I ever read anyone mentioned this in this forum before and it would be interesting to know.
Yes, anybody you know, or even yourself have ever got rich because of the demons? Without making pacts off course. How would that happen? I don't think I ever read anyone mentioned this in this forum before and it would be interesting to know.
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Original post: Caradoc
I'd like to add a line of questioning to this if I may.
Certain of the Goetic demons are said to have announced to Solomon that they hope to return to the "Seventh Throne after 1,200 years more" (as does Phenex, for example). My question is whether you goetic evokers still attempt to evoke these particular demons, and if so, how do you account for the success if there be one? Are they being called back from the "Seventh Throne" or did they not return at all? Is the 'return' a symbolic thing not rooted in human timescales but personal to the evoker or demon?
Any thoughts?
I'd like to add a line of questioning to this if I may.
Certain of the Goetic demons are said to have announced to Solomon that they hope to return to the "Seventh Throne after 1,200 years more" (as does Phenex, for example). My question is whether you goetic evokers still attempt to evoke these particular demons, and if so, how do you account for the success if there be one? Are they being called back from the "Seventh Throne" or did they not return at all? Is the 'return' a symbolic thing not rooted in human timescales but personal to the evoker or demon?
Any thoughts?
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Original post: hitman777
With Marchosias at least, it never came up.
With Marchosias at least, it never came up.
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Original post: Iamu
I'd imagine the intelligences would be evoked to answer questions, while the spirits would be employed for performing tasks, but I've honestly not done any real work with such forces despite having read a bit about them. I defer to anyone who's worked with these personally, but I figured I'd give my interpretation as I know of very few people who've approached these entities.
I remember that the explanation given either in Agrippa or in an appendix of the Llewynn edition of Three Books is that the intelligence was just that--the rational aspect of the planet--whereas the spirit is sort of the unbridalled power and desire associated with the planet, often forceful, selfish, hard to control, and basically coming off as somewhat demonic. I'd liken the two to the super-ego and id respectively based on the descriptions and explanations I've read.That reminds me: I've never seen a good explanation of the difference between the "intelligence" and the "spirit" of the different planets, and which one to use for what..
I'd imagine the intelligences would be evoked to answer questions, while the spirits would be employed for performing tasks, but I've honestly not done any real work with such forces despite having read a bit about them. I defer to anyone who's worked with these personally, but I figured I'd give my interpretation as I know of very few people who've approached these entities.
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Original post: Grab
Thank you "Iamu", that makes sense to me! Do those books also give similar descriptions of the arch angel and angel and angelic orders of each planet?
As far as I understand it, the arch angel has total control over all powers of the planet, so then why can't we just evoke him to do our bidding, instead of, as far as I have understood it, one must invoke the god form and the archangel and the angel to ask permission from the intelligence to use the spirit...? A lot of work, indeed.
Thank you "Iamu", that makes sense to me! Do those books also give similar descriptions of the arch angel and angel and angelic orders of each planet?
As far as I understand it, the arch angel has total control over all powers of the planet, so then why can't we just evoke him to do our bidding, instead of, as far as I have understood it, one must invoke the god form and the archangel and the angel to ask permission from the intelligence to use the spirit...? A lot of work, indeed.