Questions for Goetic Mage

[Napoli]

I once decided to make a pact with a demon to fulfill a certain goal. Since, I am not well-versed in Goetic magic, I decided to go through someone who is. I asked her to choose and talk with the demon on my behalf. She chose Amon. She e-mailed me saying that Amon told her that what I want is an impossible task. He can do it but in return I have to worship him for the rest of my life and offer him my blood on a monthly basis. Failure to do so will make me unlucky for the rest of my life. Of course, I didn't agree and I got a bad vibe from Amon. I am not into worshipping ANY deity and certainly not someone who threatens me like this, and asks for so much in return for a small thing.

However, I am also wary of the practitioner I went to. She is an adept in the field and even she told me not to make the pact on such terms. Nonetheless, I felt there was something fishy about the way she dealt with my request. Why was Amon the only demon she chose and couldn't she negotiate with him to make the payment a little less serious? My case was difficult and nearly impossible, and if Amon was taking advantage of the situation, she ought to have checked out others. I mean there are Goetic demons much more powerful than Amon.

My question to the Goetic practitioners here, is my hunch right? Is there other ways that payment could be made and even other demons who would be better suited to help me? I believe she didn't try enough to make a suitable pact for me. I am asking this out of curiosity.

[chowderpope]

I haven't worked with Goetic spirits but I consider myself to have a good bullshit-o-meter and I would agree, the practitioner you went to sounds a bit fishy.

[Desecrated]

I cannot make a pact for you.

You have to do it yourself.

The ritual is extremely long. It takes months to set it up.

You can not fucking do magic over e-mails and the internet. You actually need to do it in real life. This is not fucking demon tinder or some shit like that. You can't just send a friend request and hope to get a positive answer.

Go and fucking do the research before you try stupid fucking things like this you stupid fucking fuck. You should know this by now, you've been a member of this forum long enough.

[Desecrated]

Nobody can make a pact for you.

You have to do it yourself.

The ritual is extremely long. It takes months to set it up.

You can not do magic over e-mails and the internet. You actually need to do it in real life. There is no demon tinder, demon facebook or a magic 8-ball. You can't just send a friend request and hope to get a positive answer.

Go and do the research before you try things like this. You should know this by now, you've been a member of this forum long enough.

[Napoli]

I cannot make a pact for you.

You have to do it yourself.

The ritual is extremely long. It takes months to set it up.

You can not fucking do magic over e-mails and the internet. You actually need to do it in real life. This is not fucking demon tinder or some shit like that. You can't just send a friend request and hope to get a positive answer.

Go and fucking do the research before you try stupid fucking things like this you stupid fucking fuck. You should know this by now, you've been a member of this forum long enough.

Wow Desecrated . Whatever.

[Desecrated]

Wow Desecrated . Whatever.

Yeah, I kinda lost my temper there for a minute. But the point that I'm making is still valid.

[chowderpope]

Um yeah, you might want to smudge and banish after an outburst like that, man!

Also Napoli, where did your adorable avatar go? Did Des scare it away?

[Desecrated]

Um yeah, you might want to smudge and banish after an outburst like that, man!

hahahaha, Might be a good idea. I'll go and do that now.

[MoonMarbas]

I cannot make a pact for you.

You have to do it yourself.

The ritual is extremely long. It takes months to set it up.

You can not fucking do magic over e-mails and the internet. You actually need to do it in real life. This is not fucking demon tinder or some shit like that. You can't just send a friend request and hope to get a positive answer.

Go and fucking do the research before you try stupid fucking things like this you stupid fucking fuck. You should know this by now, you've been a member of this forum long enough.

I understand the outburst. Having seen how many topics of this nature have popped up, I'd imagine it's a trigger topic for you, now. That being said, "Go and fucking do the research before you try stupid fucking things like this you stupid fucking fuck" gave me a good laugh, I needed that.

[Napoli]

Also Napoli, where did your adorable avatar go? Did Des scare it away?

She is back now .

I understand the outburst. Having seen how many topics of this nature have popped up, I'd imagine it's a trigger topic for you, now. That being said, "Go and fucking do the research before you try stupid fucking things like this you stupid fucking fuck" gave me a good laugh, I needed that.

Either I have a bad sense of humour or maybe things won't be so funny if such language is directed towards us. I also understand where Desecrated is coming from. However, I prefer criticisms without such tone and language, thank you very much.

[Desecrated]

Either I have a bad sense of humour or maybe things won't be so funny if such language is directed towards us. I also understand where Desecrated is coming from. However, I prefer criticisms without such tone and language, thank you very much.

I take full responsibility for that.
The way I acted is not a productive way to express myself. And I should know better, and act better.

[Napoli]

Either I have a bad sense of humour or maybe things won't be so funny if such language is directed towards us. I also understand where Desecrated is coming from. However, I prefer criticisms without such tone and language, thank you very much.

I take full responsibility for that.
The way I acted is not a productive way to express myself. And I should know better, and act better.

It is OK Desecrated . I understand.

[Nahemah]

So, is it the consensus here that a Goetic pact must be made directly between the practitioner and the demon?

And hence, that a third party working is not advisable?

There are magickal practitioners who offer workings for sale online, so just wondering about this in relation to Goetia, particularly now.

I am not that conversant with the practicalities of Goetic workings but this seems like it must be important information, especially for those just starting to work with the system.

[Desecrated]

So, is it the consensus here that a Goetic pact must be made directly between the practitioner and the demon?

And hence, that a third party working is not advisable?

There are magickal practitioners who offer workings for sale online, so just wondering about this in relation to Goetia, particularly now.

I am not that conversant with the practicalities of Goetic workings but this seems like it must be important information, especially for those just starting to work with the system.

Well think of it like this. You're going to the bank to get a loan. But you don't show up. Instead you are sending a complete stranger that you meet online, to make the deal and at the same time carry home the money to you. That doesn't sound very safe.

BUT, let's look at what the books says.

YES!, You have to the work yourself, or at least be the main participant in it to work. You can have assistance and some rituals can be made in a group, but it works best or is required that the one asking should be the one in the middle.

One of the shortest and "simplest" system is described in the red dragon/grand grimoire. And I'll quote the first section:

"Weak men and mortals! Tremble at your temerity when you blindly think you posses such a profound science. You are taking your spirit beyond the spheres. Learn from me that before the undertaking this it is necessary to be steadfast, constant and most careful to observe exactly, point by point, everything that I will tell you without which everything would rebound to your disadvantage, confusion and total loss. If to the contrary you perform exactly witch I tell you, you will leave behind your baseness and indigence and you will have success in all your enterprises.

Arm yourself with trepidation, prudence and virtuosity in order to succeed at this great and immense task, at which I have spent 67 years working day and night. To succeed at this great goal it is necessary to do exactly which I will hereby indicate. "

And then it goes into

"You will pas a quarter of a month abstaining from the company pf the opposite sex. Begin the quarter of a month by promising the great adonay to have 2 meals a day every 24 hours during which you will eat at midday and midnight, reciting prayer before dining for this entire period."

Than you have to find a hazel brand that looks in a specific way on a wild tree that hasn't bloom yet an the highest point the second branch should be 19½ inch long. And then it's just pages of prayer. You then have to learn the kabbalah and all that it means.
BUT you don't need to learn astrology to work with the Grand grimoire. And there is only just one spirit that you are trying to contact instead of 72, so it's a small and compact system.
You also don't need to be a metalurgist like you do in the key of solomon, but you will need some gold and silver coins, and some plants, and you should probably learn how to do your own incense.

So the minimum wage in america right now is $7.25 per hour and I have to pray for 12 hour a day = 87 dollars a quarter of a month is 7 days. 87 x 7 = 609 dollars.
1 cold coin = 1230 us dollars
1 silver coin = 16 dollars.

You need at least 3 of each = 3738 us dollars

Plus hourly wages = 4347 us dollars.

So if you find anybody online willing to perform a ritual like this for less that 4000 dollars you are being fooled. The fact that I'm going up against Lucifuge Rofocale who has a pretty bad reputation and can cause some serious harm. I wouldn't do it for minimum wage.

[Desecrated]

Also, the point of the ritual is that you shall receive a book by the spirit, and it is with this book that you can control him. So if I do the ritual over here, it won't do much good for you.

A pact is a spiritual bond between you and a spirit, between your spirit and his spirit. it needs to be done in person, if nothing else, out of respect, you should met with the spirit eye to eye.

[Desecrated]

So, is it the consensus here that a Goetic pact must be made directly between the practitioner and the demon?

Consensus in the occult community?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA No.

I mean you can point to priests and priestesses performing rituals for believers since the dawn of time, and there would be very little voodoo without the idea of paying others to do magic for you.

There is no right and wrong in the occult, only results.
And in my opinion (everything I say is just my opinion and never fact) the only way to get good and safe results is by doing it yourself.

I also highly recommend against using the internet for things like this. I can understand going to an actual priest, in an actual church (no mater the religion), but I've never seen anything good come out of internet magic. Look no further than this forum, we have people every month signing up because they've gotten themselves involved in something that is above their head and desperately need help.

And of course most of the grimoires don't recommend it either.