Telling Real from Parody (and a question on humor)

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Thaumaturgic Theorist
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Telling Real from Parody (and a question on humor)

Post by Thaumaturgic Theorist »

There's a lot of Chaos/Discordian "parody" type work out there, and recently I've been wondering how you tell genuine revelation from someone having a laugh; real rituals that work from people parodying ritual, real symbols with significance or mockeries of such. How do you differentiate the sublter forms of the two?

In addition, what do you think of humor in ritual and practice? Or "cosmic joke" type outlooks, there is no truth, everything is illusory, disgusting, and base, life (and spirituality)as nothing but a worthless joke with all dignity or sublimity being fake? Some recent stuff I read claims that laughter is an effective banishing "spell" to the point where laughing at an entity you summon is a more effective banishing than evoking any angel or power. It sounds incorrect, and generally like post-modern nonsense spouted by stoned internet "mages" to me, but I'm curious what people here think. For whatever reason I trust this forum more than Reddit, where I got this stuff.

Shawn Blackwolf
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Re: Telling Real from Parody (and a question on humor)

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If you take into account real science , where laughter is caused by a spin in the esophagus ,
producing a charge , and bring that to the table , with the knowledge everything has a spin
and charge , I cannot see a fault in the concept it is not only possible , yet likely , laughter
*could* have either a magnetic attraction or repulsion effect...

Of course , it is what spin you place on the argument / discussion , and how charged one is
at the moment of said discussion , which shall allow , or not , this possibility to be even mildly
entertained...

Laughter can most definitely be a result of genuine revelation , or inspire such...let alone
the feeling which comes after...

This is illustrated , very well , by the sounds which emanate from the human form , in the
experience of these states...as per :

Ahah !

Haha !

Aahh !

And though , I , in my moment of genuine revelation concerning these states , thought it was
but a three part harmony , it was my priestess / consort / sacred whore , who brought me to
the greater four ...as she showed me , there was also the state of divine union :

AhAhAhAh !

I do hope this helps with your contemplative dilemma... [thumbup]

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Cerber
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Re: Telling Real from Parody (and a question on humor)

Post by Cerber »

People tend to take these matters way too seriously. If it's not fun it ain't worth doing it.
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Thaumaturgic Theorist
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Re: Telling Real from Parody (and a question on humor)

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Cerber wrote:People tend to take these matters way too seriously. If it's not fun it ain't worth doing it.
What does fun have to do with it?

And besides - why would you want to waste your time on someone's nonsense that doesn't work? I understand eclecticism, but I guess I'm a little more of a traditionalist in the sense of believing practice should be a dignified, even beautiful thing. So the idea of joke rituals, pointless silliness based on some spurious, nihilistic idea of a cosmic joke, or mocking an entity to banish it sound just wrong. I don't even see why it would work or how it's beneficial (or the philosophy behind it is true...and I've spent too much time thinking about that).

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Re: Telling Real from Parody (and a question on humor)

Post by Shawn Blackwolf »

Reading your post , just shows me , if you don't *get it* , there is no use
trying to explain it to you , beginning with , if you are not having fun
mentally masturbating about the whole thing , why do it ?

Fun , fun , fun , fun , fun , fun , fun , fun , FUN !

All Is Sacred , Nothing Is Sacred

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Re: Telling Real from Parody (and a question on humor)

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Shawn Blackwolf wrote:Reading your post , just shows me , if you don't *get it* , there is no use
trying to explain it to you , beginning with , if you are not having fun
mentally masturbating about the whole thing , why do it ?

Fun , fun , fun , fun , fun , fun , fun , fun , FUN !
I suppose intellectual fun is part of it - one does enjoy thinking about one's interests. But I guess...I'm not in this for fun. Not primarily. What attracted me to occultism, magick, witchcraft etc is more one of exploration, of finding a sense of spiritual peace, and facilitating self-transformation. And it apparently clashes with the views so many others seem to take that I have no way to tell which is true. Supposedly, if something makes you want to reject it or makes you feel bad, that means its true; but then by that logic my preference for old-fashioned solemnity could be just as right as the chronically irreverent Discordian-chaote neo-occultist type* since they reject me as stupid as much as I reject them (in philosophical terms too that have nothing to do with magick).
All Is Sacred , Nothing Is Sacred
A topic that bothers me immensely. Paradox doesn't sit well with me, and I'm inclined not to trust it. How practicable is a philosophy that relies on contradicting assertions being true at the same time? "Nothing is Sacred" is a disgusting and horrifying thing...in most contexts. In others, it's harmless and even calming. I can see how mockery can defang a frightening subject, but I disagree so strongly that that proves some deep truth about the thing, that it's inherently ridiculous and false. I see humor or irreverence as a coping mechanism, a flight from more distressing truths by clinging to smaller, lighter ones. Besides, it so often clashes with other beliefs the same people will hold. You profess to do things joyfully with love in your heart but espouse a worldview of contempt and disgust - how can you view all life as a worthless joke without that kind of vicious cynicism? How can you find nihilism and the human condition funny, rather than appropriately tragic or fascinatingly free or merely sterily dull, without descending the logical steps to a loathing and hatred of everything (assuming even that the "dumb delusional monkeys who think they're important to the universe when they're not, trying to carve meaning out of meaninglessness" is even accurate)? That's nothing but a living death. But I digress.

Re video: I've toyed with the Chaote idea of invoking modern things or even fictional characters as personal archetypes, and the logic of it makes sense: these things hold meaning for us that ancient gods and spirits do not. That seems reasonable. Something about the Chaote ethic I read recently:
This is what drew me to chaos magick. You might want to check it out if you haven't yet.
Its results driven, they don't focus to heavily on WHY it works, as long as it works, and they absolutely believe in doing what works for YOU instead of following a strict formula. You get to make it your own.
This will sometimes get you into arguments with people who are very knowledgeable in strict formulas for magick because to them personalization sometimes comes across as "You're doing it wrong"
By that reasoning nobody's really wrong in how they perceive and do spiritual things, including people like me who prefer to respect it and take it seriously. But the arguments seem to also argue that I'm fully wrong and need to be enlightened to someone else's perspective. How does one even sort that out?


*whom I just bag on because I see that the most in online occult communities, and because they're so opposite people like me and tend to claim or imply they've got the truth and dumb normies like me are the butt of the cosmic joke

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Re: Telling Real from Parody (and a question on humor)

Post by Shawn Blackwolf »

"I see humor or irreverence as a coping mechanism, a flight from more distressing truths by clinging to smaller, lighter ones."

Not how many of us see it...that is your problem , not ours... [thumbup]

"You profess to do things joyfully with love in your heart but espouse a worldview of contempt and disgust "

No , you are incorrect in your assumption...and you know what is said about those who assume... [wink]

Sacred means different from the norm , something outside what someone considers normal or mundane

But if one sees everything as connected , everything equal , that does not make it wrong...nor disgusting...

That thought of yours I consider disgusting... [wink]

"How can you find nihilism and the human condition funny, rather than appropriately tragic or fascinatingly
free or merely sterily dull, without descending the logical steps to a loathing and hatred of everything
(assuming even that the "dumb delusional monkeys who think they're important to the universe when they're
not, trying to carve meaning out of meaninglessness" is even accurate)?"

I live in America , Trump is now our president , most of humanity I consider absolutely bonkers , so yeah...

Laughter is the *best* medicine... [thumbup]

"That's nothing but a living death"

Your opinion...yawn... [wink]

I personally do not care what kind of magic you do or do not practice , what you think , or don't , whether
you believe in magic or not , or if you want to sit in a corner sucking your thumb , and mentally masturbating
about all this for the next thousand years ( if you figure out life extension ) ( and no insult meant here )

Just don't criticize me and others for ours , expect us to toe your line or agree with you , discourse about it
when we have other things to do , like our own life and rituals , and just go enjoy life and whatever magical
practices you follow...( take one of those chill pills , back off from the computer slowly , go outside and enjoy
a walk in nature...does wonders , and you might find someone to have fun with ! )

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Re: Telling Real from Parody (and a question on humor)

Post by Thaumaturgic Theorist »

Shawn Blackwolf wrote:"
I personally do not care what kind of magic you do or do not practice , what you think , or don't , whether
you believe in magic or not , or if you want to sit in a corner sucking your thumb , and mentally masturbating
about all this for the next thousand years ( if you figure out life extension ) ( and no insult meant here )

Just don't criticize me and others for ours , expect us to toe your line or agree with you , discourse about it
when we have other things to do , like our own life and rituals , and just go enjoy life and whatever magical
practices you follow...( take one of those chill pills , back off from the computer slowly , go outside and enjoy
a walk in nature...does wonders , and you might find someone to have fun with ! )
The whole site is for discourse about weird spiritual things. I suppose I've been looking for answers no one can seem to give me. Rambles like this happen from not knowing who or what to trust. Thanks anyway, think I'll try some of your advice.

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