do masons & rosicrucians have the same knowledge the gnostics study ?

[KADABRA1]

is all the same or does it differ ?

[Fra.Accendo]

Masonic tradition is based on very strict Judeo-Christian guidelines. Masons come from all walks of life and therefore have mildly changed this view point in the modern era. However, most Masonic lodges still contain great numbers of Judeo-Christian followers. So the symbolism is almost unerringly drawn from the Bible. More specifically the KJV. Now I can only speak for Lodges recognized by their state/countries Grand Lodge. I cannot speak for whatever beliefs are contained within Non-Traditional Masonic Lodges.

As to the Rosicrucian angle. The followers of the Rosy Cross owe some of their own tradition and ritual to the Gnostic system. They do over lap but some knowledge is wholly Gnostic AND wholly Rosicrucian. They boil down to two distinct sets of beliefs with just a few blurry edges.

[Raziel]

There are differences, but they have the same origins. A lot of cabbalistic and rosicrucian content was well known by the founders of freemasonry in 1717. There are two really intersting posts on scribd (but only in german) about Freemasonry and Kabbala, and Freemasons and Rosicrusians. I will try to translate them in the next days :

Freemasonry and Kabbala http://www.scri ... nni-Grippo

Freemasons and Rosicrusians http://www. ... eimaurerei

The autor of the Old Charges, James Anderson, took a lot of citations from the christian kabbalist Johannes Reuchlin http://en.wikipedia.o ... n_Reuchlin. On the end the rusicrucian tradition died in the 18th century. Freemasonry go ahead. In the 19th century rosicrucian ideas appears again and a lot of rc-circles were founded. Most of these members were also members of freemason-lodges. The new rosicrucians of the 20th century have nothing to do anymore with the old ones from 1610-1616. For exampale AMORC or LR etc. The ideas are well known in high degrees of Freemasonry today, but together they do nothing anymore.

We can say that the origins are the same but today the arrives are may different.

Regards and I hope my answer will clearify your question

Raziel

[KADABRA1]

how about samael aun weors gnostic movement ? does it have anything in common in its studies with freemasonary & rosicrucianism ?

[Raziel]

Hello KADABRA1,

maybe there are connections maybe not. You know that a lot of Ideas are the same in time. Beginning by egyptian and greek mysteries, goind ahead with mithras and orpheotelism, kabbalah and gnostic ...

The movement of gnostic, which was destoyed thru the swort of Catholic Church in the 13th century in France, never died really. The gnostic is an absolutely autonomous and pari passu doctrine. The Catholic Church saw the gnostic movement as harassment and combat it. A few years later (after 13th century AC) a lot of esoteric conceptions cirulate in Europe. And this secret arts have been forgotten until 1453 when the town of Constantinople was conquered from islamic army.

This was new hour of birth of new-old concepts like: kabbalah, greek mysterie, occoult magic (beginning by Sumers), alchmistry, gnostic as part of christian mystic, feminine whichcraft, neoplatonism and satanism. At the end all this concepts survived thru our days. Marsilio Ficino, Giovanni Pico della Mirandola and Johannes Reuchlin are the nost conoscious meber of this tradition lines.

All these brainchilds are the basic of Europes developing and spirit kettle. All together destilate with the next centuries (15th-16th centuries) the Idea of Rosecrucian (17th century) and Freemasonrs (18 th century). The form of mystique wisdom and the kind of secret knowns were in the 19th and 20th century in the lodges of freemasonry ond ended in the 20th century in modern RC-Circle.

The resultats of all that are Golden Dawn, Theosophy, Samael Weors Gnostic Movement, Saturnitas, OTO and and and - There derviate form the same source and this is becaus a said at the beginning: maybe there are connections maybe not. You know that a lot of Ideas are the same in time.

Regards

Raziel

[KADABRA1]

so the rosicrucian movements of now are totally diffrent from the original ? what about freemasonary has it stayed close to its roots ?

[Raziel]

Hello KADABRA1,

yes, the rosicrucian movements are totally different from original. Therefor the historians distinguish between ancient (ex 17th century) and moderns (ex 18th century). Yes, the freemasonary has stayed close to its roots. But the foundation-year 1717 is not the beginning of masonry. You can see Elias Asmole, Christopher Wren and Robert Moray were made freeemasons before 1717. In 1751 the big crash between masons of England and masons of Scotland caused the foundation of the second Grandloge of Masonry in England. British masons created the 3rd degree and Scotish masons, they saw themselves as the older ones, did not accepted this modifications. But the english version of Freemasonry was a export highlight. And in the following years they were founded a lot of Grandlodges in the whole world. The three degrees are still this days really accurate to old tradition of 1717. It cames a lot of higher dregrees but they do not molestate the form of the first three degrees.

Regards

Raziel

[Leveck]

As a gnostic, a Freemason, and a member of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, I personally think that gnosis, alchemy, qaballa, and Masonry dovetail quite nicely. As a Scottish Rite Mason, I am a brother of the rosey cross. The SR hats are black, red, and white an allussion to alchemical process. The correspondence to qaballa, alchemical, and gnostic thought permeates Masonry to its core. Not just through superficial means, but the entirety of the teachings.