Original post: durki
No clear picture emerges after reading Bible, Al-Qoran and NDE accounts of muslims & christians as to whether Jehovah & Allah are same. It seems christians are derived from Isaac & muslims from Ishmael - both being sons of Abraham. Followers of Judaism rally around Moses' teachings and do not accept Jesus as prophet. Muslims don't accept Jesus as son of God.
I feel Jehovah & Allah were regarded as one & same god in pre-christian era but came to be regarded as two different gods in post-christian era.
Jehovah & Allah
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Jehovah & Allah
Original post: Anathema_Oracle
I'm not sure about biblical genalogies in general but a couple of things to note.
Ishmael is considered by some to be the patriarch of the arabs and Isaac the progenitor of the Israelite tribes.
This seems fairly reasonable to assume:
The similarity of what you call Jehovah and Allah seem to be not so much in the method or philosophy of the worship but rather in the concept of a singular divinity.
Perhaps a cheeky analogy might be how different cultures worshipped the Sun as a god but that doesn't mean their concepts of a Sun god are the same even though the big ball of gas is indifferent to their fawning.
Although, that said, there are commonalities in myths, ethics and concepts of divinity.
Also I guess to be remembered that Jehovah is a vocalization of YHVH which isn't actually a name persay.
Allah is just a semitic word for God and refers to the Christian god in arabic liturgy and even in Malaysian christian churches.
It seems christians are derived from Isaac & muslims from Ishmael - both being sons of Abraham.
I'm not sure about biblical genalogies in general but a couple of things to note.
Ishmael is considered by some to be the patriarch of the arabs and Isaac the progenitor of the Israelite tribes.
This seems fairly reasonable to assume:
Followers of Judaism rally around Moses' teachings and do not accept Jesus as prophet. Muslims don't accept Jesus as son of God.
I feel Jehovah & Allah were regarded as one & same god in pre-christian era but came to be regarded as two different gods in post-christian era.
The similarity of what you call Jehovah and Allah seem to be not so much in the method or philosophy of the worship but rather in the concept of a singular divinity.
Perhaps a cheeky analogy might be how different cultures worshipped the Sun as a god but that doesn't mean their concepts of a Sun god are the same even though the big ball of gas is indifferent to their fawning.
Although, that said, there are commonalities in myths, ethics and concepts of divinity.
Also I guess to be remembered that Jehovah is a vocalization of YHVH which isn't actually a name persay.
Allah is just a semitic word for God and refers to the Christian god in arabic liturgy and even in Malaysian christian churches.
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Jehovah & Allah
Original post: Levite
I would certainly say that YHVH and Allah refer to the same One God. Jewish philosophers and theologians have always been very clear that, of the other world religions, Islam is the closest one to Judaism, both in terms of absolute monotheistic theology, and in terms of the legalistic and ritual structure of the religious practice.
I don't mean to get on your case, man, I swear I don't. But this is kind of a pet peeve of mine, that I really want to try clearing up.
In any case, YHVH certainly is a name, at least according to Hebrew Scripture. As early as Exodus (third chapter, maybe somewhere around verse 15, I think), God introduces himself specifically with the name YHVH; first commandment is specifically about YHVH being God and none others; Song of the Sea (Ex. 15) is pretty firm about YHVH being God's name. The Prophets actually often refer to YHVH Elohim, or Adonai YHVH, "YHVH who is God" or "My Lord YHVH," which makes it pretty clear that YHVH is supposed, in fact, to be God's Name.
Again, sorry if I've come a little strong out of the gate....
I also believe the word can be both a general and a specific term [that is, for gods and for God], as in: "La illaha ill'Allah uMuhammad urRasulu'llah," "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is His Messenger;" which is the first of the Six Kalimas, or statements of creed in Islam. Judaism uses the Hebrew name Elohim similarly in several places.
A b M
I would certainly say that YHVH and Allah refer to the same One God. Jewish philosophers and theologians have always been very clear that, of the other world religions, Islam is the closest one to Judaism, both in terms of absolute monotheistic theology, and in terms of the legalistic and ritual structure of the religious practice.
AO, I'm going to have to ask you to forgive me for being punctilious about this, but Jehovah is not a vocalization of YHVH: it is an incorrect attempt to vocalize YHVH. It comes of German theologians attempting to pronounce YHVH using the pointing given the Name in the Masoretic text. But this pointing does not represent the correct vowels for saying YHVH-- the pronunciation of which had long been lost by the time of the Masoretes-- but represents the vowels for the Name "Adonai," meaning "My Lord," the Name which Jews are supposed to use in place of trying to pronounce YHVH. The vowelling was given by the Masoretes as a reminder to readers not to attempt pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton, but to say "Adonai" instead.Anathema_Oracle;334896 wrote:...Jehovah is a vocalization of YHVH which isn't actually a name persay.
I don't mean to get on your case, man, I swear I don't. But this is kind of a pet peeve of mine, that I really want to try clearing up.
In any case, YHVH certainly is a name, at least according to Hebrew Scripture. As early as Exodus (third chapter, maybe somewhere around verse 15, I think), God introduces himself specifically with the name YHVH; first commandment is specifically about YHVH being God and none others; Song of the Sea (Ex. 15) is pretty firm about YHVH being God's name. The Prophets actually often refer to YHVH Elohim, or Adonai YHVH, "YHVH who is God" or "My Lord YHVH," which makes it pretty clear that YHVH is supposed, in fact, to be God's Name.
Again, sorry if I've come a little strong out of the gate....
You're 100% right that Allah is just the Arabic word/name for God [cognate to the Hebrew word/name El], but I would actually think that it doesn't refer so much to the Christian God, in the sense that Muslims-- as far as I know-- have theological issues with the trinity, as do Jews. If it were made cognate to Christian theology, it would either be to the Unitarian theology, or to God the Father as sole deity, I believe.Anathema_Oracle;334896 wrote: Allah is just a semitic word for God and refers to the Christian god in arabic liturgy....
I also believe the word can be both a general and a specific term [that is, for gods and for God], as in: "La illaha ill'Allah uMuhammad urRasulu'llah," "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is His Messenger;" which is the first of the Six Kalimas, or statements of creed in Islam. Judaism uses the Hebrew name Elohim similarly in several places.
A b M
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Jehovah & Allah
Original post: sami999x
Well, the semitic languages have names ending with "ah" being FEMININE.
SO in other terms, while EL is MASCULINE, ELOAH and ALLAH would be FEMININE.
So, you couls say this whole concept of a MALE "GOD" is a purely European/JUdeo-christian attempt.
Because when you come to think of it, outside EUrope where JUdeo-Christian religions exist, nobody has ever believed in this GOD (male).
LIke hIndus or any other society that is matriarchal, unlike JUdeo-Christianity. Or even OTTOMAN mUslims, who provided rights of inheritence to women back when Britain was beheading divorcees and JUdaism did not provide women any inheritence form their parents. (which change as soon as countries are invaded and finances are stolen, like Africa and the anti-evolution factors caused to pagan religoons by Jewish concepts. As JUdaism/Christianity GREW by learning PAGAN concepts from HINDUS and other advanced nations. And used them to steal finances form more nations by appearing as if they ever evolved without PAGAN CONCEPTS)
FOr example, we could mention, HIndus, Budddhists, or ANYONE outside europe AS EXAMPLE. tHEY HAVE never BEEN INTO THE CONCEPT OF the god the father.
BUt when you come to think of it, most writings in OT were taken from pagan scriptures probably when Europe invaded other nations to steal finances. Mainly due to its use as a means of stealing finances and propaganda, which the BIBLE may have been about.
LIke Native America, Australlia, India, Asia, Africa and anywhere else where JUdaism tried to be overly expansionistic (i.e. takings of native americans to chirches where they are taught European concept of GOD)
So, this concenpt of GOD the FATHER, I would say, is a EUROPEAN or JEWISH/CHRISTIAN concept ONLY.
Because almost nobody has beieved in anything like that in ANY OTHER REGION OF THE WORLD BESIDES EUROPE.
And as for YHVH, the FINAL HEH makes it FEMININE TOO.
LIke the "self allegedly SCHOLRLY" rabbis would probably have to belong to organizations where STOLEN books are preserved in order to find that out. Due to not having the faculty of meditation, besides reading FROM PAGES and using SPEECH ONLY, which is primitive.
But in Kabalah, YHVH is the GOd-name of the SATURN sphere. WHich makes it FEMININE.
And anyone can just MEDITATE to probably come to the same conclusion.
And nobody would have to use the PARROT-LIKE faculty of mere SPEECH and SIGHT to read off pages and get help from parents to realize that.
BVut this concept of MALE GOD is JEWISH concept only. Since Europeasn have had a history of believing in JEHOVAH BEING A FATHER since before the times of CHRISTIANITY/JESUS.
But of course, they can use QUOTES like primitive and argue that this concept of GOD belongs to anyone else.
Probably bny MISTRANLATING arabic words in terms of GENDER.
But EL is a MASCULINE. While anding with "ah" would make it FEMININE.
I am surprised nobody was knowledgable enough to have noticed that.
Except Muslims, unlike Europeans since before JESUS, do NOT believe in GOD being a FATHERLY figure.
When it comes to EUrope, we can see there is evidence if JEHOVAH being there before CHrist. Which would mean EUROPE ALONE was in this GOD concept.
While they may have incorporated stuff form other religions, and have cloncluded otherwise, the concept of a MALE DEITY HAS HISTORICALLY BELONGED TO EUROPE ALONE.
NObody else has ever beleved in a male creator. Except in Europe, they probably had a manner of saying
"listen to us Scholarly Scholars. We have conclued that everyone else have concluded the same thing as us"
Which was probably neededas propaganda for the expansion of CHristianity during aparheid and other times.
But Europe ALONE is ointo the GOD part. Since nobody else has a histry of believing i GOD.
And probably had to struggle hard with the MISTRANSLATIONS OF ARABIC as mere propaganda when finances needed to be stolen. But they probably also did the same thing with HINDUISM.
Because most stuff in the OT have similarities to stories that MAY HAVE BEEN STOLEN from HINDU SCRIPTURES. They may have mistranslated RAMA into GOD the same way they mistranslated everything else for expansionistic purposes. And to steal finances from other nations (i.e. HIndus, and others who had religions frreedoms in Ottoman empire).
And the last HEH makes it FEMININE too. I am surprised nobody concluded that JUST BY MEDITATION.
But I guess Europeans (GOd believers) have to be in groups that have the books in closets, and preach against any knowledge which is in the mind of more intelligent individuals WITHOUT THE PRIMITIVE NEEDS FOR BOOKS (i.e. like the times when Christianity was espanding during renaissance).
They had to STRUGGLE with mistranslations of words to earn support each time they started to create EXCUSES, and to defend the NEXT EXCUSE with the LAST one, to steal finances from other nations.
I'd say Europe, and JUdaism, as been the ONLY part of the world population that is into PATRIARCHY. But they have a manner of causing anti-eolution factors when stealing finances from other nations, and then taking ALL credit for ALL CONCEPTS which originated ELSEWHERE.
And they have a way of making "self-allegedly scholarly conclusions" about WHAT OTHERS HAVE CONCLUDED, whenever finances need to be stolen from other religions/nations.
Well, the semitic languages have names ending with "ah" being FEMININE.
SO in other terms, while EL is MASCULINE, ELOAH and ALLAH would be FEMININE.
So, you couls say this whole concept of a MALE "GOD" is a purely European/JUdeo-christian attempt.
Because when you come to think of it, outside EUrope where JUdeo-Christian religions exist, nobody has ever believed in this GOD (male).
LIke hIndus or any other society that is matriarchal, unlike JUdeo-Christianity. Or even OTTOMAN mUslims, who provided rights of inheritence to women back when Britain was beheading divorcees and JUdaism did not provide women any inheritence form their parents. (which change as soon as countries are invaded and finances are stolen, like Africa and the anti-evolution factors caused to pagan religoons by Jewish concepts. As JUdaism/Christianity GREW by learning PAGAN concepts from HINDUS and other advanced nations. And used them to steal finances form more nations by appearing as if they ever evolved without PAGAN CONCEPTS)
FOr example, we could mention, HIndus, Budddhists, or ANYONE outside europe AS EXAMPLE. tHEY HAVE never BEEN INTO THE CONCEPT OF the god the father.
BUt when you come to think of it, most writings in OT were taken from pagan scriptures probably when Europe invaded other nations to steal finances. Mainly due to its use as a means of stealing finances and propaganda, which the BIBLE may have been about.
LIke Native America, Australlia, India, Asia, Africa and anywhere else where JUdaism tried to be overly expansionistic (i.e. takings of native americans to chirches where they are taught European concept of GOD)
So, this concenpt of GOD the FATHER, I would say, is a EUROPEAN or JEWISH/CHRISTIAN concept ONLY.
Because almost nobody has beieved in anything like that in ANY OTHER REGION OF THE WORLD BESIDES EUROPE.
And as for YHVH, the FINAL HEH makes it FEMININE TOO.
LIke the "self allegedly SCHOLRLY" rabbis would probably have to belong to organizations where STOLEN books are preserved in order to find that out. Due to not having the faculty of meditation, besides reading FROM PAGES and using SPEECH ONLY, which is primitive.
But in Kabalah, YHVH is the GOd-name of the SATURN sphere. WHich makes it FEMININE.
And anyone can just MEDITATE to probably come to the same conclusion.
And nobody would have to use the PARROT-LIKE faculty of mere SPEECH and SIGHT to read off pages and get help from parents to realize that.
BVut this concept of MALE GOD is JEWISH concept only. Since Europeasn have had a history of believing in JEHOVAH BEING A FATHER since before the times of CHRISTIANITY/JESUS.
But of course, they can use QUOTES like primitive and argue that this concept of GOD belongs to anyone else.
Probably bny MISTRANLATING arabic words in terms of GENDER.
But EL is a MASCULINE. While anding with "ah" would make it FEMININE.
I am surprised nobody was knowledgable enough to have noticed that.
Except Muslims, unlike Europeans since before JESUS, do NOT believe in GOD being a FATHERLY figure.
When it comes to EUrope, we can see there is evidence if JEHOVAH being there before CHrist. Which would mean EUROPE ALONE was in this GOD concept.
While they may have incorporated stuff form other religions, and have cloncluded otherwise, the concept of a MALE DEITY HAS HISTORICALLY BELONGED TO EUROPE ALONE.
NObody else has ever beleved in a male creator. Except in Europe, they probably had a manner of saying
"listen to us Scholarly Scholars. We have conclued that everyone else have concluded the same thing as us"
Which was probably neededas propaganda for the expansion of CHristianity during aparheid and other times.
But Europe ALONE is ointo the GOD part. Since nobody else has a histry of believing i GOD.
And probably had to struggle hard with the MISTRANSLATIONS OF ARABIC as mere propaganda when finances needed to be stolen. But they probably also did the same thing with HINDUISM.
Because most stuff in the OT have similarities to stories that MAY HAVE BEEN STOLEN from HINDU SCRIPTURES. They may have mistranslated RAMA into GOD the same way they mistranslated everything else for expansionistic purposes. And to steal finances from other nations (i.e. HIndus, and others who had religions frreedoms in Ottoman empire).
And the last HEH makes it FEMININE too. I am surprised nobody concluded that JUST BY MEDITATION.
But I guess Europeans (GOd believers) have to be in groups that have the books in closets, and preach against any knowledge which is in the mind of more intelligent individuals WITHOUT THE PRIMITIVE NEEDS FOR BOOKS (i.e. like the times when Christianity was espanding during renaissance).
They had to STRUGGLE with mistranslations of words to earn support each time they started to create EXCUSES, and to defend the NEXT EXCUSE with the LAST one, to steal finances from other nations.
I'd say Europe, and JUdaism, as been the ONLY part of the world population that is into PATRIARCHY. But they have a manner of causing anti-eolution factors when stealing finances from other nations, and then taking ALL credit for ALL CONCEPTS which originated ELSEWHERE.
And they have a way of making "self-allegedly scholarly conclusions" about WHAT OTHERS HAVE CONCLUDED, whenever finances need to be stolen from other religions/nations.
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Jehovah & Allah
Original post: sami999x
And also, while Europeans have a habit of stating they have "freedom of belief", while idenitfying with Buddhists, Hindus, Pagans/witches, Taoists, and anyone else who got burned/looted in the past, it seems they seem to think everyone else is the same as their grandparents.
Like how Native Americans were once told at chirches thy are from INDIA, with one "self-allegedly scholarly" hypothesis after another.
And all hypothesis are correct as long as finances are looted from others.
In fact, I had some people in this very site assume I'm muslim, which is just same as my grandparents. Even my parents are too "INFIDEL" type, except now they are older and aren't as weird.
So in summation, they identify with WHOEVER got MONEY STOLEN last time. While the next ones are WHATEVER the Europeans/Christianesque/Jews feel like.
I.e. The Egyptians being just "Africans". And Native Amercans being "Indians"
So yeah, the part abut Jehovah the FATHER being the same as Allah is JUST A MECHANISM NEDED FOR STEALING FINANCES.
LIke in the past from HIndus, Africans, and Americans. And later from Muslims in the Ottoman empire.
And in theend, THEY are withces/pagans/Biddhists/taoists whoever got books stolen. And everyone else and got told to AVOID PRACTICING their ancestor's stuff. Or got cursed because there is something called "GOD" and "MAGIC" up there. And everyone else is the same as their grandparents, as LONG AS IT HELPS THE GOD-WORSHIPPERS STEAL FINANCES.
And everyrone else is the same as their grandparents, or WHATEVER floats their boats, as long as money is stolen (i.e. Americans = INDIAN hypothesis. And all hypothesis are correct as long as they can steal finances and preach the BIble. Mostly while creating preaching grounds and making them appear as PUBLIC places/websites/buildings. LIke missionaries that came to Hindus after they got finances looted and needed to get help. And always made to appear like PUBLIC places).
And also, while Europeans have a habit of stating they have "freedom of belief", while idenitfying with Buddhists, Hindus, Pagans/witches, Taoists, and anyone else who got burned/looted in the past, it seems they seem to think everyone else is the same as their grandparents.
Like how Native Americans were once told at chirches thy are from INDIA, with one "self-allegedly scholarly" hypothesis after another.
And all hypothesis are correct as long as finances are looted from others.
In fact, I had some people in this very site assume I'm muslim, which is just same as my grandparents. Even my parents are too "INFIDEL" type, except now they are older and aren't as weird.
So in summation, they identify with WHOEVER got MONEY STOLEN last time. While the next ones are WHATEVER the Europeans/Christianesque/Jews feel like.
I.e. The Egyptians being just "Africans". And Native Amercans being "Indians"
So yeah, the part abut Jehovah the FATHER being the same as Allah is JUST A MECHANISM NEDED FOR STEALING FINANCES.
LIke in the past from HIndus, Africans, and Americans. And later from Muslims in the Ottoman empire.
And in theend, THEY are withces/pagans/Biddhists/taoists whoever got books stolen. And everyone else and got told to AVOID PRACTICING their ancestor's stuff. Or got cursed because there is something called "GOD" and "MAGIC" up there. And everyone else is the same as their grandparents, as LONG AS IT HELPS THE GOD-WORSHIPPERS STEAL FINANCES.
And everyrone else is the same as their grandparents, or WHATEVER floats their boats, as long as money is stolen (i.e. Americans = INDIAN hypothesis. And all hypothesis are correct as long as they can steal finances and preach the BIble. Mostly while creating preaching grounds and making them appear as PUBLIC places/websites/buildings. LIke missionaries that came to Hindus after they got finances looted and needed to get help. And always made to appear like PUBLIC places).
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Jehovah & Allah
Original post: durki
Jesus referred to Jehovah as his father. As for Allah, there are varying opinions. Some even think Allah to be of neuter gender. Whereas hindu gods are deep into sex, Jehovah & Allah are above sex.
Question still remains unresolved as to whether Jehovah and Allah are one & the same person or they are two different beings / forces.
Jesus referred to Jehovah as his father. As for Allah, there are varying opinions. Some even think Allah to be of neuter gender. Whereas hindu gods are deep into sex, Jehovah & Allah are above sex.
Question still remains unresolved as to whether Jehovah and Allah are one & the same person or they are two different beings / forces.
Jehovah & Allah
I heard and read many accounts about it but confusion persists. May some occultist clear it.
soham at this site = durki at occultforums.com
Jehovah & Allah
E) none of the abovesoham wrote:I heard and read many accounts about it but confusion persists. May some occultist clear it.
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Jehovah & Allah
Was the word "Allah" ever used outside of Arabia before 6th Century? I haven't researched but I'll be surprised if it was.
Jehovah & Allah
I believe jehovah and allah are two different entities with the same false claim:"I am the one true god"
Jehovah & Allah
I heard and read many accounts about it but confusion persists. May some occultist clear it.
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Jehovah & Allah
Jehovah, Yahweh, Allah, The Word, etc. etc. are a few of the many names for a single entity: the God of the "Chosen People" (i.e. the Israelites/Hebrews/Whatever). As history progressed the scriptures changed, eventually maintaining that this God of the Middle-East was not just the best of many, but the One and Only and the Creator as well. But following the spread of the Judaic religions to Christianity and later Islam, both being spread to Gentiles, it wasn't exactly fit to call him the God of Israel any longer. But yeah, same dude.
As to whether or not he/it/whatever exists, that's not really for me to say, but his followers certainly seem to think so.
As to whether or not he/it/whatever exists, that's not really for me to say, but his followers certainly seem to think so.
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Re: Jehovah & Allah
YHVH prior to the Exile was seen a one god among many....just the Chief god if the Israelites. El...was the Chief Caananite god which too influenced Israel...."el" at the end of a name signifies a/the deity..."Michael"..."Gabriel"...."Raphael"...etc.
After the Exile, especially seen in the Prophets....Isaiah.....YHVH now claims there is "no other God besides him"....."no other god was formed"......it is at this time is Israel's history they finally truly became "monotheistic", only One God exists instead of "henotheistic"...many gods exist but Israel was to only deal with YHVH.
Allah stems from the same root word as "El"....YHVH and Allah are the same god...the 'god of Abraham".
Islam....IMO....is a "Christian heresy" of sorts......influenced by Christian sects Muhammad came in contact with early on....."Christian" imagery and characters have been incorporated into Islam...as well as Jewish characters from the the Hebrew scriptures.
After the Exile, especially seen in the Prophets....Isaiah.....YHVH now claims there is "no other God besides him"....."no other god was formed"......it is at this time is Israel's history they finally truly became "monotheistic", only One God exists instead of "henotheistic"...many gods exist but Israel was to only deal with YHVH.
Allah stems from the same root word as "El"....YHVH and Allah are the same god...the 'god of Abraham".
Islam....IMO....is a "Christian heresy" of sorts......influenced by Christian sects Muhammad came in contact with early on....."Christian" imagery and characters have been incorporated into Islam...as well as Jewish characters from the the Hebrew scriptures.
Re: Jehovah & Allah
This ^ what he said.
Re: Jehovah & Allah
I believe jehovah and allah are two different entities.The fact that allah put a holy site(dome of the rock) right on top of jehovah's holy site,thus preventing a rebuilding of jehovah's temple,shows me that they are opposed.According to these insane beings,there can only be one god.
Re: Jehovah & Allah
That is rather poor logic. That is like saying because they are rebuilding a different building over where the world trade towers were, that it shows the previous builders and current builders are opposed.alex nero wrote:I believe jehovah and allah are two different entities.The fact that allah put a holy site(dome of the rock) right on top of jehovah's holy site,thus preventing a rebuilding of jehovah's temple,shows me that they are opposed.According to these insane beings,there can only be one god.
Re: Jehovah & Allah
They're the same god as described earlier. Even Jews and Muslims recognize that fact. The Quran calls Christians and Jews "people of the book". It's not that they don't believe in the right god, it's that they aren't worshipping him properly by discounting the latest prophet, Muhammed. In Islam, God is the god of Abraham, Isaac, Moses, just as he is in Christianity and Judaism. They believe in the same stories, the flood, the rainbow, etc. They believe that Jews are wrong because they stopped paying attention to God's new prophets. They believe Christians are wrong because they stopped at the prophet Jesus and made him into a god. They all believe in the same god, though. The hangup between them is that they all think they're worshiping him wrong.
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