New in ?occultism? need guidance.

[biax]

Do shed some light on these please

1. What's with the ?disturbing imagery/depiction? around occultism? "Satanic" images if you will. Dark backgrounds. It's discomforting to explore it because of this yet somehow I feel that I should.
2. Why is there so much linkage to free masonry (which does seem ?evil? at a glance?)
3. Why is occultism generally hidden? What is it that the general public don't want us to know yet it SEEMS almost as if all the high ups practice it.
4. So I'm getting the impression that our thoughts first manifests in the spiritual world which in turn manifests in this material world. Is this the hidden truth in occult knowledge? If so, there any specific readings to delve deeper into this?

I'm currently reading the kabbalah after having read basic hermitism, bhagavad gita, gnosism.. I'm so confused and I'm not sure what I'm after and if it's what I'm after.

[Serenitydawn]

Why so hung up on evil?

[biax]

The same feeling as not wanting to go to jail... or reincarnating as an inchworm , something like that.

Of course I do understand these may be just ideas formed in my head. I do prefer if someone can tell me though.

[Frater ALV]

Do shed some light on these please

1. What's with the ?disturbing imagery/depiction? around occultism? "Satanic" images if you will. Dark backgrounds. It's discomforting to explore it because of this yet somehow I feel that I should.

Much of the imagery one sees, throughout the ages, is the product of opponents of mysticism, propaganda. Although more recent 'product' is just that, imagery designed to fit/promote/sell a product, be it an album (virtually any Black Metal, etc.), a sub-culture scene (Goth), a film genre (resurrection of Vampire themes, etc.), and more.

that's not to say demons, devils, and necromancers don't exist, but these themes are popular, as are images of angels, The Goddess, Mother Nature. It all depends where you are looking.

2. Why is there so much linkage to free masonry (which does seem ?evil? at a glance?)

Again, this depends where you are looking and what you are looking at.

Tell me, where is the link between Freemasonry and Wicca, Paganism, Druidism, Buddhism, etc. Once more though, this is not to say that some traditions have vague connections with each other, different paths, currents, methods, in the same way Christianity has many paths (Catholicism, Methodism, Evangelism, Protestantism, Presbyterianism, Eastern Orthodox, Coptic, and more).

All belief systems have roots and branches, but not every branch carries the same fruit (or any fruit at all).

3. Why is occultism generally hidden? What is it that the general public don't want us to know yet it SEEMS almost as if all the high ups practice it.

One of the definitions of the word 'Occult' means hidden, obscure. It's not necessarily the general public who want to keep the mysteries hidden, per se, but the other organised control systems who do not want the general public to know of what is open to them - it's no accident that the occult, or rather it's adherents, are often said to be embracing 'alternative lifestyles' or beliefs.

Occult could equally be ascribed to mainstream religion. It's only relatively recently that the Christian church has revealed the contents of its 'book' to all. Previously it had been in an obscure language and kept under lock and key with specific aspects revealed to the congregation/general public at specific times to achieve a given result required by either the church or its patron/landlord.

As for the 'high ups' allegedly practising it, smacks of conspiracy theory to me, or the plot of a fantasy film/novel. There may or may not be members of the global elite who are members of one organisation of another, whether they are 'occult', religious, political, or sport, does it matter?

4. So I'm getting the impression that our thoughts first manifests in the spiritual world which in turn manifests in this material world. Is this the hidden truth in occult knowledge? If so, there any specific readings to delve deeper into this?

Different systems have differing constructs. But I would suggest your thoughts are purely of the mundane.

I'm currently reading the kabbalah after having read basic hermitism, bhagavad gita, gnosism.. I'm so confused and I'm not sure what I'm after and if it's what I'm after.

Perhaps you need to keep reading for a year or so then make a judgement based on deeper knowledge rather than a mere whiff of mysticism/occult/spirituality.

BTW: Seems to me you have a fear of consequence, along with an all to common assumption that anything Occult related, Esoteric, is by it's very nature Evil. You need to get over this (and your 'self') if you are not going to waste your time on a (blinkered) journey already biased that will only serve to confirm that bias.

[biax]

Thank you for your reply.

Much of the imagery one sees, throughout the ages, is the product of opponents of mysticism, propaganda. Although more recent 'product' is just that, imagery designed to fit/promote/sell a product, be it an album (virtually any Black Metal, etc.), a sub-culture scene (Goth), a film genre (resurrection of Vampire themes, etc.), and more.

Yes I do notice that the media promotes propaganda. Faming one thing or defaming another. My curiousity is on the why they wish to have us have a negative opinion and so to stay away from the 'occult'

that's not to say demons, devils, and necromancers don't exist, but these themes are popular, as are images of angels, The Goddess, Mother Nature. It all depends where you are looking.

Are you suggesting that they do exist? Or they do if I wanted to think they do?

but the other organised control systems who do not want the general public to know of what is open to them -

What's the agenda?

BTW: Seems to me you have a fear of consequence, along with an all to common assumption that anything Occult related, Esoteric, is by it's very nature Evil. You need to get over this (and your 'self') if you are not going to waste your time on a (blinkered) journey already biased that will only serve to confirm that bias.

Yes I do. I am trying to take a first step into the world of the unknown, the occult, curious to know what is there yet making false assumptions in my mind since I like most people have been conditioned. Yes I don't know what I'm getting into, but I do wish if someone could tell me.

In the beginning, I was curious about the third eye / enlightenment. Then it seems as if that I needed certain wisdom or mentality to attain such. So it's like entering a new world seeking a treasure, one told by legends and you don't know what awaits the one searching the treasure, be it ghosts and demons in its path or altering states of consciousness. I for one feel insecure and it's that I need someone experienced to tell me what this new world is all about, a little bit at least.

[TheSeeker]

I am trying to take a first step into the world of the unknown, the occult, curious to know what is there yet making false assumptions in my mind since I like most people have been conditioned. Yes I don't know what I'm getting into, but I do wish if someone could tell me.

In the beginning, I was curious about the third eye / enlightenment. Then it seems as if that I needed certain wisdom or mentality to attain such. So it's like entering a new world seeking a treasure, one told by legends and you don't know what awaits the one searching the treasure, be it ghosts and demons in its path or altering states of consciousness. I for one feel insecure and it's that I need someone experienced to tell me what this new world is all about, a little bit at least.

Okay Grasshopper, it goes like this...

There is but one set of Ultimate Truths behind the Universe, and they pervade everything in every dimension and on every level of existence. Here on the Material Plane of the Third Dimension, on the planet Earth, we humans seek to understand the nature of Being in relationship to these Truths by developing systems of religion and spirituality that are constructed and developed over time through a combination of cognitive and cultural evolutionary progression. However, because these religio-spiritual constructs are developed out of culture, the Truth tends to become obfuscated behind the decorative trappings of the cultures from which they originate. All paths contain certain fundamental truths hidden within their teachings and or beliefs. These are what the true nature of "occult" and "esoteric" teachings are, and this is the source of the idea that all religions and spiritual paths are but spokes on the hub of a great wheel.

You are not stepping into a world of the unknown at all, you are stepping into a world of the hidden. In this sense your analogy of the treasure hunt is not inappropriate. I think it's fair to say that almost all of us here enjoy what we do or we wouldn't be doing it. However, I would caution you against placing value judgements upon the practices of others. It is very important to understand that you are of a culture which has instilled a specific set of moral and ethical values in you from birth which influence and inform your decisions about what is morally right or wrong.
Ask yourself this: When a West African Yoruba Priestess sacrifices a chicken to Xango, the god of storms, thunder and Protector of Children, on behalf of her community on St. Barbara's Day, is it really fair of you to regard this as evil practice? Also, bare in mind that a lot of Islamic folks find the way Westerners carry themselves to be undignified and wholly lacking in self-respect. Value judgements are a tricky business...
My advice to you would be to begin educating yourself in one direction. If you are of a Judeo-Christian bent, traditional Western Ceremonial Magic might appeal to you. If you're looking for a more non-traditional approach, try looking into the beliefs of a particular culture that interests you.
The Occult is a collection of practices, methods, beliefs and philosophy that really trancends the boundaries of human made belief systems. You'll start to understand that once you start following a path. Just keep your mind open, and look for similarities and differences along the way, and read critically.

[biax]

1. Why can't the ultimate Truth be told in words?
2. Why must it be kept a secret? To even call it the 'great secret' 'secrets of secrets'... and yet exist in symbolism all over the world, religious institutions and ?demonize? them even? Well, basically show itself in open and unknowing to those who don't understand it and yet place a cultural condition to avoid it.
3. Yes, why hide?

I'm eastern actually and have ?instinctively? been against religions. Yes, logic culture if you like. I have zero visualization skills and I try to be rational with a loud, noisy ever talking analytical inner voice. With this, are you able to advice me what path to take? I've found the Kabbalah profoundly interesting to read but is that a path at all?

[Jack-o-diamonds]

1. Why can't the ultimate Truth be told in words?
2. Why must it be kept a secret? To even call it the 'great secret' 'secrets of secrets'... and yet exist in symbolism all over the world, religious institutions and ?demonize? them even? Well, basically show itself in open and unknowing to those who don't understand it and yet place a cultural condition to avoid it.
3. Yes, why hide?

I'm eastern actually and have ?instinctively? been against religions. Yes, logic culture if you like. I have zero visualization skills and I try to be rational with a loud, noisy ever talking analytical inner voice. With this, are you able to advice me what path to take? I've found the Kabbalah profoundly interesting to read but is that a path at all?

from the way you talk you might be interested in chaos magick. try reading some liber null & psychonaut.

i'd say forget trying to figure out any kind of hidden 'secret' truth about things, and just go with it. "when i do this and reach this kind of gnosis, this happens!" sort of thing. that's what i do anyway.

[Muloc7253]

Do shed some light on these please

1. What's with the ?disturbing imagery/depiction? around occultism? "Satanic" images if you will. Dark backgrounds. It's discomforting to explore it because of this yet somehow I feel that I should.

Lots of people are drawn to "dark" imagery - a lot of mythology and popular fantasy is filled with that kind of imagery and it arouses a nostalgia to our childhood days very easily. Other people prefer holy or pure imagery, whatever, its all really arbritrary. Lots of people are brought up in negative christian/religious homes and so associate Satanic imagery with positivity and freedom. You should work with a system or deity that suits YOU, personally.

2. Why is there so much linkage to free masonry (which does seem ?evil? at a glance?)

The original freemason groups were an occult order, essentially. I wouldn't call them negative (though I know little of modern day freemason/illuminati conspiracy theories, I'm talking specifically about the open freemason groups, not any kind of government conspiracies). They're just one particular order, and are about as good a summary of occultism as a whole as a tangerine is a good summary of food as a whole.

3. Why is occultism generally hidden? What is it that the general public don't want us to know yet it SEEMS almost as if all the high ups practice it.

I don't know just how much anybody "high up" deliberately use magic, and the magic employed is often stuff that is becoming more and more associated with psychology than magic nowadays anyway. It isn't hidden - there are all sorts of free sources and readily available books and pretty much all subjects. The media are somewhat bias against it because at least in the UK and US theres still a christian prejudice lingering as evidenced by our current laws regarding gay marriage and such. Also, certain orders (like the freemasons) keep their rituals and information private to members only, and it has everthing to do with their own development and the execution of these orders. You'll find this in a lot of less occult-associated religions too, private services to members only or only to "high up" priests and such. But in general, information on astral travel, wicca, buddhism, asatru, chaos, crowley/golden dawn/oto, druidism, shamanism etc is not hidden at all, you only need to look.

4. So I'm getting the impression that our thoughts first manifests in the spiritual world which in turn manifests in this material world. Is this the hidden truth in occult knowledge? If so, there any specific readings to delve deeper into this?

I'm currently reading the kabbalah after having read basic hermitism, bhagavad gita, gnosism.. I'm so confused and I'm not sure what I'm after and if it's what I'm after.

Occult is a blanket term for a massive amount of practices and outlooks. What you said loosely applies to some, but theres so many different paths. Kabbalah is a confusing subject for anybody to start with, just making the attempt to try to make sense of the sephiroths, paths and their purposes, learning their correspondences and developing a feel for them is part of the great work itself. Don't stress yourself over that - besides, Kabbalah isn't linked with all occult paths, its not essential by any means.

[biax]

1. Why can't the ultimate Truth be told in words?
2. Why must it be kept a secret? To even call it the 'great secret' 'secrets of secrets'... and yet exist in symbolism all over the world, religious institutions and ?demonize? them even? Well, basically show itself in open and unknowing to those who don't understand it and yet place a cultural condition to avoid it.
3. Yes, why hide?

I'm eastern actually and have ?instinctively? been against religions. Yes, logic culture if you like. I have zero visualization skills and I try to be rational with a loud, noisy ever talking analytical inner voice. With this, are you able to advice me what path to take? I've found the Kabbalah profoundly interesting to read but is that a path at all?

from the way you talk you might be interested in chaos magick. try reading some liber null & psychonaut.

i'd say forget trying to figure out any kind of hidden 'secret' truth about things, and just go with it. "when i do this and reach this kind of gnosis, this happens!" sort of thing. that's what i do anyway.

are you suggesting that, thoughts manifest in this world is the basis of all occult?

[Azkhet]

are you suggesting that, thoughts manifest in this world is the basis of all occult?

The idea is more like all things in the world are manifest as an idea that takes form, or natural law that appears to be law only because it has inertia from repetition. By some mechanism your directed, empowered thoughts cause change in the events of reality as they unfold. All magical ritual involves manipulating symbolic logic symbols into a directed, empowered fashion in order to create change inside of yourself that has a reciprocal change on reality. Remember, it's not the spoon that bends... Magic is the adult's use of imagination.

The purpose of the boring magical exercises no one likes to do (the breathing exercises, thought-stopping, actual meditation, dream journaling, etc) is to strengthen your imaginative muscle so you can direct these empowered thoughts in the strongest, clearest, cleanest way possible, thus increasing the power of your rituals and your chances of success. Some magical techniques use the brain's normal thought structure against itself in order to make magic work (sigil magic, where the desire is expressed in an encoded form so the conscious mind can't interfere with its success.) Some techniques involve filling the mind with so much evocative imagery that your intent becomes focused and desire achieved (lots of Western esoteric systems such as the Golden Dawn.) Some techniques focus on making connections with primal spirits or gods in a more priest-like or shamanic role in order to enact change (lots of examples here, such as Santeria.) Lots of different ways, but all with the same end result - creating a change inside of the magician so a change may happen in reality. This is why not everyone will have the same successes or results from systems, and why it will all require effort on your part. You can't just pick up a shovel and dig a hole if you have to become the shovel first.

[biax]

are you suggesting that, thoughts manifest in this world is the basis of all occult?

The idea is more like all things in the world are manifest as an idea that takes form, or natural law that appears to be law only because it has inertia from repetition. By some mechanism your directed, empowered thoughts cause change in the events of reality as they unfold. All magical ritual involves manipulating symbolic logic symbols into a directed, empowered fashion in order to create change inside of yourself that has a reciprocal change on reality. Remember, it's not the spoon that bends... Magic is the adult's use of imagination.

The purpose of the boring magical exercises no one likes to do (the breathing exercises, thought-stopping, actual meditation, dream journaling, etc) is to strengthen your imaginative muscle so you can direct these empowered thoughts in the strongest, clearest, cleanest way possible, thus increasing the power of your rituals and your chances of success. Some magical techniques use the brain's normal thought structure against itself in order to make magic work (sigil magic, where the desire is expressed in an encoded form so the conscious mind can't interfere with its success.) Some techniques involve filling the mind with so much evocative imagery that your intent becomes focused and desire achieved (lots of Western esoteric systems such as the Golden Dawn.) Some techniques focus on making connections with primal spirits or gods in a more priest-like or shamanic role in order to enact change (lots of examples here, such as Santeria.) Lots of different ways, but all with the same end result - creating a change inside of the magician so a change may happen in reality. This is why not everyone will have the same successes or results from systems, and why it will all require effort on your part. You can't just pick up a shovel and dig a hole if you have to become the shovel first.

Great answers... thanks

I'm still totally green in this. I'm currently studying the Kabbalah and have just read the Emerald Tablet of HT.. and am still so clueless. So right, I get the picture by intelligence that this world is an illusion. So it tells me to shut down my senses and thoughts for they aren't the real me. I can do so by observing and meditation. So if everything's just dark, what have I left? So I get the picture that all I do and even right now is I'm looking to fulfill my desires for my egoistic self. I notice it already. The Kabbalah tells me to change them to altruistic ones. Thus correcting myself to remove the ego? So I get the picture that it's not my own accomplishment but that it's from above. I haven't done anything in my life. Have I? My desires are simply being answered by the Creator.

1. Is my understanding flawed?
2. The first step to ANYTHING or rather to say to fulfill the purpose of this life is to obtain Self-Knowledge, right?
3. Is imagination equal to visualization? So I draw a picture of something in my head. I used a pyramid. It's blurry and it disappears instantaneously. I try to picture the closest faces I know, but it's all so blurry and the picture vanishes right away. I do suppose I have no talent in this. I am able to store melodies very well though hehe.
4. Do occultists actually succeed? Does it -REALLY- work?
5. So magical rituals are for adults. I'm new in spirituality so what should children study?

[Azkhet]

Great answers... thanks

I'm still totally green in this. I'm currently studying the Kabbalah and have just read the Emerald Tablet of HT.. and am still so clueless. So right, I get the picture by intelligence that this world is an illusion. So it tells me to shut down my senses and thoughts for they aren't the real me. I can do so by observing and meditation. So if everything's just dark, what have I left? So I get the picture that all I do and even right now is I'm looking to fulfill my desires for my egoistic self. I notice it already. The Kabbalah tells me to change them to altruistic ones. Thus correcting myself to remove the ego? So I get the picture that it's not my own accomplishment but that it's from above. I haven't done anything in my life. Have I? My desires are simply being answered by the Creator.

1. Is my understanding flawed?
2. The first step to ANYTHING or rather to say to fulfill the purpose of this life is to obtain Self-Knowledge, right?
3. Is imagination equal to visualization? So I draw a picture of something in my head. I used a pyramid. It's blurry and it disappears instantaneously. I try to picture the closest faces I know, but it's all so blurry and the picture vanishes right away. I do suppose I have no talent in this. I am able to store melodies very well though hehe.
4. Do occultists actually succeed? Does it -REALLY- work?
5. So magical rituals are for adults. I'm new in spirituality so what should children study?

Take it as a given that will and perception are not separate (after all, what happens in the will effects change in reality.) That force in the mind - the I - that exerts these twin principles is called the kia by Peter Carroll in Liber Null. The kia cannot be expressly defined because it is the expression of consciousness and therefore does not have any fixed qualities. When you shut down your senses and "everything's just dark" that is what you have left. The model that you are using (the Kabbalah) assumes that mankind is separated from the Creator, and the objective of magical practice is to refine your soul/kia through various methods so that you rise up to eventual union with the Creator. This is an essentially right-handed path model. While the exact definition of right-hand path vs left-hand path will vary broadly (some argue that it has ethical considerations, for example), let me give you my definition. The right-hand paths/models of magic assume that you are endowed with some sort of elevated potential or spiritual consciousness (the kia) and you are separated from the divine source. The objective of magical practice is to regain union with that divine source. The left hand paths/models differ in that you are endowed with that same potential, and since you have the same divine spark of God, you are a god yourself - divinity made flesh, so to speak. The objective of magical practice is to explore and express your divinity in whatever manner you choose. Of course it gets pretty easy to blur the lines of the left and right. The important thing to remember here is that these are both models only - and no model represents objective truth (arguably, there is no objective truth.)

It is your own accomplishment. Some models/magicians argue that your desires are being answered by the Creator, rather like prayers are answered. I disagree with this theory. Religion puts you on the receiving end of divine favor, and it is divine option whether it is withheld. When something fails to happen it is usually rationalized that somehow the magician was not worthy, they do not understand the Divine Plan, there was some sort of karmic action in effect to prevent it, or similar. If you kneel before a god and request something, the power dynamic you've set up allows for the god's refusal. The magician, by contrast, maintains the locus on control on herself when calling upon divine entities. This changes the power dynamic to contracting for services, sort of like hiring a plumber or an electrician. You have an expectation of service when you hire a plumber, except you're not paying in fiat but whatever form of payment the spirit takes. If you practice religion, you didn't get what you want because it's God's will, or whatever. If you practice magic, you didn't get what you want because you failed to make payment, make contact, achieve the correct type and level of focus or some other issue. This likewise tends to lay the cause of failure at the magician's feet. This is uncomfortable for many people because when the will and imagination are tied with ego, it's hard to take this level of responsibility for yourself and facing failure and self-criticism is remarkably difficult (but painfully necessary.) It doesn't help that magical rituals and religious rituals bear strong resemblance to each other, probably due to the nonmagical mimicking the actions and behaviors of those who do possess power without the understanding or training necessary to employ the techniques. This has had hilarious effects on modern magical practice.

1. Is your understanding flawed? Yes, but not because you haven't realized the One Real Trooth that we all know and you don't. Broadening your understanding of diverse magical theories and models will help because you will figure out how to bend your spoons most effectively. The answers I've given you are primarily from a chaote's viewpoint, and I'm sure there are people who will take issue with what I've said because their models assume differently. I freely admit my biases. You need more information and experience so you can rationally come up with your own. :-P

2. The first step to anything is self-knowledge, yes, and this applies to anything, not just magic. If you faint at the sight of blood, you probably shouldn't become a paramedic, right? If this purpose of self-knowledge is some way to find your path to the Creator and this is the purpose of life, well, see the bit about the assumptions models make above. Whether this is the purpose of existence is up to you.

3. Visualization is an aspect of imagination. Developing the strength to hold an image in your head for a prolonged period is one of those exercises that no one likes to do but really is foundational to magical practice. You can't build an astral temple without it - how are you supposed to imagine four walls of different colors around you AND the stars whirling overhead AND the ritual itself all at once without this practice? It's sort of like working out. When you first start you get annoyingly sweaty and you can only do four pushups and they suck and you know it. Keep at it, though, and you will one day do fifty pushups. Practice lots. Magic takes work.

4. Yes, or else we wouldn't be doing it. Keep in mind that magic performed in the spirit of challenge is doomed to fail because the subconscious desire for failure is the easiest result that will manifest. After all, if this crap doesn't work then you may comfortably resist change and protect your ego. That's why I tell students to adhere to the KISS principle (keep it simple, stupid) and start off with baby steps. It's just as easy to talk yourself out of successful magic as it is to talk yourself out of going to the gym.

5. Children should study imagination. They should be issued a large cardboard box, an empty paper towel roll and a puppy at the age of three. Since successful magical practice depends on expression of one's true will, indoctrination into any religious system is harmful. The key word is "religious"; see my arguments against religion above. I don't see any harm into introducing them to basic spiritual concepts as they're growing up, but I expect effective magical study couldn't commence until they reach sapience around the age of twelve, if not later - if they don't have a true will they can't really express one (yes, I know little kids are willful bastards, but you know what I mean, lol.) I suppose the key would be to present concepts and not dogma - dogma doesn't help anyone, and they need to be old enough to understand.

[biax]

Great answers... thanks

I'm still totally green in this. I'm currently studying the Kabbalah and have just read the Emerald Tablet of HT.. and am still so clueless. So right, I get the picture by intelligence that this world is an illusion. So it tells me to shut down my senses and thoughts for they aren't the real me. I can do so by observing and meditation. So if everything's just dark, what have I left? So I get the picture that all I do and even right now is I'm looking to fulfill my desires for my egoistic self. I notice it already. The Kabbalah tells me to change them to altruistic ones. Thus correcting myself to remove the ego? So I get the picture that it's not my own accomplishment but that it's from above. I haven't done anything in my life. Have I? My desires are simply being answered by the Creator.

1. Is my understanding flawed?
2. The first step to ANYTHING or rather to say to fulfill the purpose of this life is to obtain Self-Knowledge, right?
3. Is imagination equal to visualization? So I draw a picture of something in my head. I used a pyramid. It's blurry and it disappears instantaneously. I try to picture the closest faces I know, but it's all so blurry and the picture vanishes right away. I do suppose I have no talent in this. I am able to store melodies very well though hehe.
4. Do occultists actually succeed? Does it -REALLY- work?
5. So magical rituals are for adults. I'm new in spirituality so what should children study?

Take it as a given that will and perception are not separate (after all, what happens in the will effects change in reality.) That force in the mind - the I - that exerts these twin principles is called the kia by Peter Carroll in Liber Null. The kia cannot be expressly defined because it is the expression of consciousness and therefore does not have any fixed qualities. When you shut down your senses and "everything's just dark" that is what you have left. The model that you are using (the Kabbalah) assumes that mankind is separated from the Creator, and the objective of magical practice is to refine your soul/kia through various methods so that you rise up to eventual union with the Creator. This is an essentially right-handed path model. While the exact definition of right-hand path vs left-hand path will vary broadly (some argue that it has ethical considerations, for example), let me give you my definition. The right-hand paths/models of magic assume that you are endowed with some sort of elevated potential or spiritual consciousness (the kia) and you are separated from the divine source. The objective of magical practice is to regain union with that divine source. The left hand paths/models differ in that you are endowed with that same potential, and since you have the same divine spark of God, you are a god yourself - divinity made flesh, so to speak. The objective of magical practice is to explore and express your divinity in whatever manner you choose. Of course it gets pretty easy to blur the lines of the left and right. The important thing to remember here is that these are both models only - and no model represents objective truth (arguably, there is no objective truth.)

It is your own accomplishment. Some models/magicians argue that your desires are being answered by the Creator, rather like prayers are answered. I disagree with this theory. Religion puts you on the receiving end of divine favor, and it is divine option whether it is withheld. When something fails to happen it is usually rationalized that somehow the magician was not worthy, they do not understand the Divine Plan, there was some sort of karmic action in effect to prevent it, or similar. If you kneel before a god and request something, the power dynamic you've set up allows for the god's refusal. The magician, by contrast, maintains the locus on control on herself when calling upon divine entities. This changes the power dynamic to contracting for services, sort of like hiring a plumber or an electrician. You have an expectation of service when you hire a plumber, except you're not paying in fiat but whatever form of payment the spirit takes. If you practice religion, you didn't get what you want because it's God's will, or whatever. If you practice magic, you didn't get what you want because you failed to make payment, make contact, achieve the correct type and level of focus or some other issue. This likewise tends to lay the cause of failure at the magician's feet. This is uncomfortable for many people because when the will and imagination are tied with ego, it's hard to take this level of responsibility for yourself and facing failure and self-criticism is remarkably difficult (but painfully necessary.) It doesn't help that magical rituals and religious rituals bear strong resemblance to each other, probably due to the nonmagical mimicking the actions and behaviors of those who do possess power without the understanding or training necessary to employ the techniques. This has had hilarious effects on modern magical practice.

1. Is your understanding flawed? Yes, but not because you haven't realized the One Real Trooth that we all know and you don't. Broadening your understanding of diverse magical theories and models will help because you will figure out how to bend your spoons most effectively. The answers I've given you are primarily from a chaote's viewpoint, and I'm sure there are people who will take issue with what I've said because their models assume differently. I freely admit my biases. You need more information so you can rationally come up with your own. :-P

2. The first step to anything is self-knowledge, yes, and this applies to anything, not just magic. If you faint at the sight of blood, you probably shouldn't become a paramedic, right? If this purpose of self-knowledge is some way to find your path to the Creator and this is the purpose of life, well, see the bit about the assumptions models make above. Whether this is the purpose of existence is up to you.

3. Visualization is an aspect of imagination. Developing the strength to hold an image in your head for a prolonged period is one of those exercises that no one likes to do but really is foundational to magical practice. You can't build an astral temple without it - how are you supposed to imagine four walls of different colors around you AND the stars whirling overhead AND the ritual itself all at once without this practice? It's sort of like working out. When you first start you get annoyingly sweaty and you can only do four pushups and they suck and you know it. Keep at it, though, and you will one day do fifty pushups. Practice lots. Magic takes work.

4. Yes, or else we wouldn't be doing it. Keep in mind that magic performed in the spirit of challenge is doomed to fail because the subconscious desire for failure is the easiest result that will manifest. After all, if this crap doesn't work then you may comfortably resist change and protect your ego. That's why I tell students to adhere to the KISS principle (keep it simple, stupid) and start off with baby steps. It's just as easy to talk yourself out of successful magic as it is to talk yourself out of going to the gym.

5. Children should study imagination. They should be issued a large cardboard box, an empty paper towel roll and a puppy at the age of three. Since successful magical practice depends on expression of one's true will, indoctrination into any religious system is harmful. The key word is "religious"; see my arguments against religion above. I don't see any harm into introducing them to basic spiritual concepts as they're growing up, but I expect effective magical study couldn't commence until they reach sapience around the age of twelve, if not later - if they don't have a true will they can't really express one (yes, I know little kids are willful bastards, but you know what I mean, lol.) I suppose the key would be to present concepts and not dogma - dogma doesn't help anyone, and they need to be old enough to understand.

"Make payment, make contact" with... who? what? I thought we were all one and that I'm god?

2) What's your way of obtaining self-knowledge?

4) Mind giving a few examples of what desires you've made and it came to manifest? (And how long it takes.. and how you know when to take it).. Or otherwise suggest what's actually possible.. otherwise I'll be praying for the unrealistic absurd all the time hehe.

5) Not in that sense, I'm 30/m. Since my mind's accustomed to the material world with a total NO to spirituality, I now need to alter my mind radically. In fact, I've always been trying to use flawed inner verbal logic that decides what I do. So now I gotta add visualization to it, how should I even begin? Everything blurs instantaneously.

[Azkhet]

"Make payment, make contact" with... who? what? I thought we were all one and that I'm god?

2) What's your way of obtaining self-knowledge?

4) Mind giving a few examples of what desires you've made and it came to manifest? (And how long it takes.. and how you know when to take it).. Or otherwise suggest what's actually possible.. otherwise I'll be praying for the unrealistic absurd all the time hehe.

5) Not in that sense, I'm 30/m. Since my mind's accustomed to the material world with a total NO to spirituality, I now need to alter my mind radically. In fact, I've always been trying to use flawed inner verbal logic that decides what I do. So now I gotta add visualization to it, how should I even begin? Everything blurs instantaneously.

1 & 2. It's a model issue, again. Take spirits or gods, for example. Some magicians argue that spirits exist externally to us in a manner similar to which you and I exist. Their willingness to respond to you depends on a lot of factors, and what they may want likewise depends. Some magicians argue that spirit entities do not exist outside of ourselves and are instead the expression of unconscious (and universal) impulses or desires. That's why ancient pantheons repeated types of gods (ie god of war) because they are actually expressions of twenty-two universal archetypes within the human mind (Jung's personality archetype theory is a favorite of a lot of modern magicians.) Your relationship with them may also matter. If you walked up to me and asked me for fifty bucks, I'd tell you to buzz off. Your best office-friend may lend you the money, and your mom almost certainly would. Since spirits don't take American Express, you have to figure out a way to pay them for their services, rather like you'd pay a plumber. How you act to a spirit and how you pay it is dependent on the spirit as well.

Why would you bother with a spirit when we're all one? Well, yes, we are all one, but we maintain practical separation from each other that we quantify as a separate, unique existence, and spirits do as well (you might say from their point of view we exist in the spirit world, and they're the normal ones.) The fact that you are God actually helps your case in dealing with certain spirits. Take the Goetia, for example. By and large the spirits out of that mini-system assume that they are on the bottom of some divine pecking order, and they may only ascend through it towards God by doing the bidding of creatures higher up in that divine pecking order, which happens to include humans. Therefore, you're doing them a favor when you whistle them up and demand things of them - and often you can get away with a demanding attitude and orders because the model assumes that and those particular spirits respond well to it, generally speaking. Why would you want a spirit? They're independent entities capable of doing work on your behalf.

Let me give you a specific example. My brother was out of work and has a baby on the way. His wife tried her leetsauce Wiccan stuff and it didn't work so he asked me to handle it. I have been working with Santa Muerte. Her portfolio (if you would) is very broad but certainly does include intercession in work/life matters. I decided to apply Santa Muerte to his problem. The usual format for a big spell involving her is a play in three acts: first, you give a gift to her and the spirits that guard the graveyard at the graveyard (the tributa); second, you perform the actual spell itself either at the graveyard or at your altar, which may involve chanting, candles, enticing offerings of things she likes like apples and chocolate and tequila, etc; and third, the payment for what it is she did (the ex vota.) I took my offerings for step one down to the graveyard at 6 am on a Sunday morning. Normally you leave the the tributa at the graveyard gate after asking for the intercession of the spirits you need. I approached the gate and felt an odd impulse to walk into the graveyard and leave it by a grave. This particular cemetery has about two thousand graves in it, so I wandered into the graveyard and looked around for a few minutes, feeling pretty damned clueless where I ought to go next. I saw a large double headstone a bit off the path with the wife's side unoccupied. When I spotted it I had an odd "found it" sensation, rather like I feel when I've been looking for my car keys for half an hour. I went over to the grave. I wasn't sure which one it was initially since the two rows of headstones were jammed in next to each other since it's a pretty crowded public graveyard. I looked down, and on the back lip of one of the headstones I saw that someone else had stacked a bunch of copper coins. Leaving coins for the spirits of the dead is a common graveyard offering; I had seven silver coins already in my pocket for the exact same purpose. I plonked down my tributa, made my offerings, and I felt that I must take some grave dirt. I had also taken water in a jar to give to the dead, and after I dumped it out, I filled it with some grave dirt. Keep in mind at this point I was operating completely off-script; I had only intended to go down, leave the offerings at the gate, thanks the spirits, and leave. I took some photos of the headstone with my phone so I could look up the guy later and went home. He had died pretty young, in his thirties, and I wondered if someone had left offerings at his grave because he was famous locally for some reason and I just didn't know it (maybe he was an actor that died in an accident or something and I'd never heard of him) Well, his online obituary wasn't a fancy affair. It was one of the prewritten ones you see in the paper so often, formulaic, but someone had popped an interesting tidbit in the middle - he had been a plumber, a member of the local pipefitter's union. My brother is an electrical contractor - and if you had to pick out a dead man to help him find a job, a fellow tradesman is absolutely perfect. Now, I either wandered into the graveyard and randomly selected a dead plumber whose grave was already being used for magic (out of a pretty full cemetery, and occupations aren't listed on headstones) or you can reason that I was led to that particular grave. The "random chance" argument is less believable to me, especially given the evidence of how I felt during the proceeding.

I had to heavily modify the ritual I intended to perform since I hadn't planned on using grave dirt at all, but since it had been given to me it seemed stupid not to use it. I performed it over a period of nine days. I initially offered to repaint the globe on Santa Muerte's altar statue (I have a cheap Mexican prefab on which the paint job is sloppy) and I also offered to take an ad out in the local classifieds thanking her for her intercession (this is a typical gift to a Catholic saint for their intercession, and the method I was employing to work with her mimics Catholic saint worship, so it seemed appropriate.) On the second day of the nine day ritual, I had been visualizing Santa Muerte standing in front of me, and the mental image I had of her abruptly changed. In my mind she had been wearing the seven-color robe, and it suddenly changed to a skeleton wearing a fancy golden wedding dress. I also felt a sort of curious pressure of "wanting" that wasn't mine - I had no idea where I would get one, how I would afford it, where I would put it, or exactly what I'd do when it arrived. Yet, I felt it was necessary, so I asked Santa Muerte, "Is this what you want?" Somewhere near my inner ear I heard a whispered "yes." Well, crap, I thought. Where am I going to find one of these things? I went digging around. Often practitioners will have dresses made for their Santa Muerte statues, and I was debating finding a reasonably sized doll pattern and having one made when I found a man selling Santa Muerte statues on eBay that already had dresses. He wasn't selling a gold one, though, so I messaged him to see if one was available. Naturally, he'd just gotten some in stock, and would be delighted to send me one, just bid on whichever statue auction and he'd just send me a gold one. I marched back out to the altar and said, "Santa Muerte, get my brother a job and you get statue with a gold dress." My brother now has steady work, and I now have a Santa Muerte statue on the way with a pretty gold dress - ex vota achieved. It was a week before he got the steady work. How long would I have waited? If I hadn't seen any action within a month or so, I would have resorted to diagnostic divination techniques to find out what went wrong. Why a month? Why not? It's hard to say how long you should wait to see a magical operation take effect. It depends on what you tried to achieve and how well you managed to achieve that mental state where you pushed probability in your favor. I like a month. It seems like a good round number to me.

Of course, you may not need the intercession of a spirit at all. I wanted to attend a program in college that had a long waiting list, and I decided to try to use magic to hedge my chances. I made a sigil encoding what I wanted (to sidestep the waiting list) and chalked it on a crosswalk downtown in the bar district frequented by college students. The idea was that the repeated tramping of the college students (what I wanted to become) on the sigil encoding what I wanted (to sidestep a college waiting list) would lend it energy one footstep at a time. I put my name on the program list. Two weeks later you were to present yourself to the admissions people for the department, and they'd check your paperwork to ensure your eligibility for the program, and then put you on the real waiting list. List priority was not a function of GPA, or when you first started the prerequisites and declared your major. List priority was assigned to whomever had attended the community college earliest, ie, if you got a degree in culinary arts in 1978, you would take priority over someone who started their prerequisites in 2003, even though your culinary arts degree didn't have a damned thing to do with the new program. When I went down to the college that day there were probably six hundred or so people standing in line. The program only had 140 spots, so those who were in line who had all their paperwork in order would be waitlisted for as long as it took. My heart sank when I saw all those people. I had only been going to the college on and off for three years, getting my prerequisites squared away, and I was pretty worried that my priority on the list would be pretty low. I was standing in line for about twenty minutes when I heard a woman calling my name. I looked up. She was one of the program instructors, and she was walking the line with her list, calling my name only. I poked my head up and answered her. She pulled me out of line and walked me straight to the front. I have a distinctive last name that I share with my mother. She and one of the other instructors had worked with my mother for a number of years, liked her, and decided to put me at the top of the list because I was her daughter. Would they have done so anyway without my sigil? I don't know if it broke any college rules or not, but they just as easily had the option to not grant me that courtesy (I asked my mom later if she'd called on my behalf, and she had not.) So, there's that.

4. There's no one way to obtain self-knowledge. I read about the idea that performing things abhorrent to you can lead to a state of new awareness. Since I wasn't about to go murder a puppy or something, I decided to take a copy of a book that I really cherished and burn it. I felt a glimmer of sick panic when the pages started to brown and curl that I really didn't expect, and it proved an interesting point to meditate upon for a long while. I was curious about the nature of random chance, and decided to live my life according to a die roll for an entire month. This applied to all questions that came - I wound up learning how to ride a motorcycle right out of the blue, and those long night time desert rides have lead to a number of interesting magical and spiritual experiences that I would never have had the opportunity for if I hadn't rolled a "3" on a die. Some attempts at self-knowledge have been through direct magical operation - the astral temple suggested in the Cthonos Rite published as an audio CD by Carroll has a ritual room dedicated to this purpose. Initial attempts should focus on getting your bearings, in my opinion. I know I harp on getting a good grip on the basic boring exercises no one likes, but some video games you HAVE to play the tutorial... so to speak.

5. I dig it. I like approaching magic with semi-scientific language because I don't really have any spiritual legs to stand on - or at least I didn't when I started this. That's why I began my studies with chaos magic, reading Prime Chaos by Hine, Liber Null by Carroll, and some others. Chaos magic tends to approach metaphysical concepts in scientific terms so I found it an easy bridge. Honestly, the book that really helped me make that transition doesn't have any thing to do with chaos magic at all. It was the Tao of Chaos by Katya Walter. She is a mathematician whose firm grounding in statistics was shaken when she scoffed at someone throwing I Ching coins as just randomness, and then the coins promptly called her a fool. She began to study the coins as a mathematician, and the book details how it changed her thinking by making her analyze the relationships between events. It's a very good read, the first half, anyway (the whole thing, if you want to learn a lot about the I Ching.) I applaud your dedication to trying the Golden Dawn stuff first, but given the material I'm not surprised you're lost, to be honest. I already said I'm biased, keep in mind, but I would recommend picking up some books like Prime Chaos. You may find the explanations easier to digest. As for visualization, you need to first be able to sit still and focus your mind. Try sitting completely still for five minutes. If you can master that (it's weirdly hard) then you can practice the so-called evil eye - the fixed stare of focused awareness characteristic of a trained magician. Once you get the fixed stare down, you've mastered sitting still and focusing your mind. Now, try a green crescent and work from there. You won't master this in two weeks. Trust me. [wink]

[biax]

Honestly your story is "in my -egoistic- opinion" crazy. The kind where I'll be at first interested to know what you do, then get to know you then I'll start walking away slowly. Then I'll start convincing myself that perhaps it's me who is naive and been conditioned to that I'm not open to new actual things. Then again, within the story what was the outcome? Manifestation?

I'll give the suggested a reading I suppose. But I gather that it's about mastery of the mind. Before looking at green crescent, it has to be clear I'm still green. My ego is fairly convinced that in order for it to dissolve itself one must begin to be more aware / or be just in the here and now and subdue thoughts / remember oneself? What would you say is the best elementary step?

[Azkhet]

Honestly your story is "in my -egoistic- opinion" crazy. The kind where I'll be at first interested to know what you do, then get to know you then I'll start walking away slowly. Then I'll start convincing myself that perhaps it's me who is naive and been conditioned to that I'm not open to new actual things. Then again, within the story what was the outcome? Manifestation?

I'll give the suggested a reading I suppose. But I gather that it's about mastery of the mind. Before looking at green crescent, it has to be clear I'm still green. My ego is fairly convinced that in order for it to dissolve itself one must begin to be more aware / or be just in the here and now and subdue thoughts / remember oneself? What would you say is the best elementary step?

Of course the story sounds crazy. It defies any sort of rational logic. The best part is where I heard the voice - if I was sitting on the bus and I told someone next to me that, I'm sure they'd promptly move. Hell, I'd promptly move. And yet, my brother is out of work for a year, I start a chain of focus, get subjected to a long string of bizarre coincidences, have what amounts to a hallucination, and then out of the sky a contracted position falls into my brother's lap a week later. My intent (landing my brother employment) succeeded. Whether it was an operation of spirit-assisted enchantment or an elaborate setup for evocation is debatable.

/dons asbestos lingerie

The first step on the road to serious magical study is getting one's own house in order. This includes clearing out petty distractions from your life (do you really need to watch 20 hours of TV a week? Don't know if you do or not, but many do.) It also means that you need to get your body in order. I don't know if you're an in-shape guy, but if you're not, get in shape. Elementary magical exercises involves breathing control and meditation and posture work. If you do these, you will start noticing a change in thinking and an increased feeling of awareness. Guided with reading, it's a very illuminating period - but you have to devote yourself to it. I like the working out litmus test myself - if you can't reliably work out forty-five minutes a day six days a week, you've got a problem. If you don't have the time to do it, you don't have the time to do a lesser banishing ritual, a middle pillar ritual, the invocation of a specific sphere, and then all the banishings, either - that takes an hour to do. If you don't have the discipline to devote yourself to forty-five minutes of vaguely unpleasant sweatiness, you don't have the self-discipline for effective magic. Having done these things at 225 pounds and 135 pounds, I can tell you there's a difference in how my body feels, how the energy flows and the effectiveness of my breathing. Plus, I can do asana for longer. All these things are good.

Assuming this isn't an issue for you, or you have already completed this step, learning how to meditate - actual, honest to God meditation - is what I'd work on. Get used to it; you'll be working on it for the rest of your life. You need a clean sheet of paper to start drawing. You need a clean mind to start visualizing. If the sheet of paper already has something on it, it will impact your drawing, right? You need to scrub your mental workspace clean. This is accomplished via meditation. Likewise the first magical ritual I recommend learning is some form of basic banishing ritual - again, there's no point unless you first have a clean workspace. Maybe I'm just a neat freak. :-P At this point you've been practicing this stuff for a few months, have read lots, and now you have some sort of theoretical foundation for basics like visualization, or Baby's First Invocation, or whatever it is you're wanting to do. That's how you start. Oh, and keep a journal - it sounds stupid, but if magic functions by provoking a change in the magician, seeing how the magician has changed over time is invaluable. Don't shirk it.

[Elmer Romero]

As the greenest and newest of newbies, I don't feel qualified to comment on any of the threads I've read through on this site, but I think I can help you out a little here. A couple of people have nudged you toward Chaos Magic as a framework for the ideas you want to develop, and I agree that that's a good way for many beginners to go.

Entering any orthodox established system of magic requires a huge leap of faith, and I can understand your being reluctant to jump into the unknown without any guarantee of anything to follow.

On the other hand... Euclidean geometry begins with a handful of unprovable "postulates" that are assumed to be true; everything following that in the study of geometry derives from those unproven postulates in a step-by-step, one proof at a time, logical order. In the same way, Chaos Magic begins with one postulate: "The mind can affect the universe in direct ways... outside of our rationalist/empiricist understanding of the universe... that can be experienced but cannot be empirically proven."

If you're willing to put your pragmatic skepticism on hold for a trial period, you'll be able to do some introductory exercises that will begin to convince you of the truth of that statement, and from there, you'll be able to progress step by step, picking up ideas that are useful to you from any source (traditional occultist or not) that strikes your fancy.

The key books of the Chaos "system" have already been mentioned, but I'd like to suggest a 12 or 15 page introductory essay that gives the simplest possible entry into the field. http://www.scribd.com/doc/24506/Pop-Mag ... t-Morrison Read that, find some little thing there that you can put to use, and work with it till you begin to see some kind of result. The material in there should also help you to set aside your preconceptions and fears about allying yourself unwittingly to something 'evil' just by beginning to explore.

PS: Visualization? I didn't have that skill, it wasn't there... until it was. One day I was in a self-hypnotic state, trying to work with one of Mr. Morrison's baby-step introductory ideas, and a landscape popped into my "field of vision," where I was able to hold it stable and unchanged for a span of minutes. I haven't yet developed any conscious control over WHAT gets visualized, but it's a step in the right direction. (And today I'm realizing I have to go back a couple of steps and recalibrate my MO in some ways I haven't quite figured out.)

[hwramvkjim]

I'm still totally green in this. I'm currently studying the Kabbalah and have just read the Emerald Tablet dbuying of HT.. and am still so clueless. So right, I get the picture by intelligence that this world is an illusion. So it tells me to shut down my senses and thoughts for they aren't the real me. I can do so by observing and meditation. So if everything's just dark, what have I left? So I get the picture that all I do and even right now is I'm looking to fulfill my desires for my egoistic self. I notice it already. The Kabbalah tells me to change them to altruistic ones. Thus correcting myself to remove the ego? So I get the picture that it's not my own accomplishment but that it's from above. I haven't done anything in my life. Have I? My desires are simply being answered by the Creator.

1. Is my understanding flawed?
2. The first step to ANYTHING or rather to say to fulfill the purpose of this life is to obtain Self-Knowledge, right?
3. Is imagination equal to visualization? So I draw a picture of something in my head. I used a pyramid. It's blurry and it disappears instantaneously. I try to picture the closest faces I know, but it's all so blurry and the picture vanishes right away. I do suppose I have no talent in this. I am able to store melodies very well though hehe.
4. Do occultists actually succeed? Does it -REALLY- work?
5. So magical rituals are for adults. I'm new in spirituality so what should children study?

Thanks for your share, it's good