crossroads pact

[latho313]

ive read alot about people making a deal with a crossroads demon where they go to a crossroads, dig a hole in the center and bury a box containing a photo of themself, black cat bones and graveyard dirt. i was wondering if anyone knows exactly how this ritual is performed ive researched it alot and have found many different methods and am looking for the one that works. just interested thanks

[Nepthys]

This ritual originates in the American South. Visit luckymojo for an in-depth anthropological exploration of the crossroads ritual. Traditionally, though, no real "pact" is necessary. You visit the crossroads at or near about midnight for several consecutive nights (5, 7, or 9) and you will eventually see a "man in black". This is not a demon or the devil, but can be equated with the Voodoo lwa Papa Legba who is the gatekeeper and guardian of the crossroads. You go every night with your intention in mind, your skill you want to better yourself in, with some relic representative of said skill. For instance, if you want to get better at playing guitar, you go with your guitar every night and tune it and play it a little bit each night. Cat Yronwood, who maintains the luckymojo site, performed the ritual to get better at making mojo hands, so she took supplies necessary for making them with her.

There was a guy on another forum (I'm looking for it but I'm having trouble finding the thread) who gave a day-by-day breakdown of his experience performing the ritual. He was intending to become better at scrying, and gave these observations about his ritual:

1) He did it in an urban setting and his results came back not so great, so he and other board members surmised that it SHOULD be a country crossroad that is isolated.
2) He did it for a skill that doesn't require too much manual dexterity and his results weren't so great, so, again, he and the other board members surmised that the ritual is intended for manual skill.
3) He did it for nine consecutive nights, noting that it got harder and harder to get the motivation to do it every night. As in the Southern tradition it is normal to make an offering for any services rendered by the spirits and/or ancestors, it was surmised that the time and effort put into the ritual is the offering.

I'll continue looking for the thread I'm referencing and post it if I find it. I am intending to do this ritual myself, the problem being I live in an urban center and have a broken foot so travelling to the countryside is kind of out of the question for me at the moment.

Edit: I found the thread detailing the person's personal experience with the ritual. It can be found here: http://wizardforums.com/Thread-The-Hoodoo-Crossroads-ritual-tonight

[Nahemah]

Find out more about Haiaian Voodoo,Papa Legba,the Yoruba diaspora and Ellegua too [depending on your particular needs,of course] who also serves as a guardian of the Crossorads and opener of ways.

Some very basic starter info below:

http://altreligion.about.com/od/symbols ... /Legba.htm

I advise caution and respect in this matter,as you are dealing with powerful forces who are much more inclined towards helping you, if shown due respect and given appropriate offerings.

http://www.kiwimojo.com/papalegba.htm

I think a google search may be much more helpful to you atm, than other routes online.

That thread is 15 pages,ye gods,gonny take a while to plough through that and the synopsis so far makes it seem that the person doing the ritual either didn't have the heart for it to start with,or is somewhat lazy,magickally speaking, or perhaps has too much schoolwork going on,to give the ritual their full and unwavering attention.
[IDK,but the average age of members over there is in the teens,so not as snipey a remark as it may seem at first glance...just saying.]

From the little I know of the Loa,they do expect effort and attention and that's not negotiable either,as far as I'm aware.

[Nepthys]

That thread is 15 pages,ye gods,gonny take a while to plough through that and the synopsis so far makes it seem that the person doing the ritual either didn't have the heart for it to start with,or is somewhat lazy,magickally speaking, or perhaps has too much schoolwork going on,to give the ritual their full and unwavering attention.
[IDK,but the average age of members over there is in the teens,so not as snipey a remark as it may seem at first glance...just saying.]

From the little I know of the Loa,they do expect effort and attention and that's not negotiable either,as far as I'm aware.

Yeah, I read that thread over the course of two or three days. My final synopsis is similar to your preliminary one; the young man in question doesn't seem to have the dedication and/or time for such intensity as required in dealing with spirits like that. My occult beginnings were in New Orelans Voudun (after a dabbling about in Wicca and Ceremonial Magick) and the Lwa and other spirits of that pantheon require a fair more shake of attention than just what you give them during ritual. I maintain an ancestral altar and an altar to Our Lady of Guadalupe now that I spend time with as often as possible (either every day or every other day). The results of working within these systems are fantastic, but hardly for the idle practitioner or the dabbler which I think the majority of the people on that forum are.

[Nepthys]

(I forgot to mention a couple things in my original reply!)

Find out more about Haiaian Voodoo,Papa Legba,the Yoruba diaspora and Ellegua too [depending on your particular needs,of course] who also serves as a guardian of the Crossorads and opener of ways.

Some very basic starter info below:

http://altreligion.about.com/od/symbols ... /Legba.htm

I advise caution and respect in this matter,as you are dealing with powerful forces who are much more inclined towards helping you, if shown due respect and given appropriate offerings.

http://www.kiwimojo.com/papalegba.htm

While I no longer practice Voodoo/Voudun, I am a regular practitioner of American Hoodoo, which carries over from the Yaruba diaspora this requirement of respect. These are not spirits you can compel, let alone demand anything of. There are no "circles of protection" or "power triangles" as are involved in Ceremonial Magick. Protection and cleansing rituals often times come in the form of protective baths you take prior to a ritual, and offerings are expected. As long as you keep the spirits or saints you are working with happy, they are as Nahemah said more inclined towards helping you. I would go so far as to say they are more inclined to help you in general than hurt you, but they do not tolerate rudeness, glibness, etc. Be honest with yourself and with them and you should do alright. But research is always your friend and you will never research too much!

[Asurendra]

I don't know a great deal about the Orishas. I have only read a few books such as those by Gonzalez Whipple on the subject so I am speculating here. I have seen photos and video of Haitian practitioners who use sigils which are identical or nearly so to those found in the Goetia. (According to Chris Everard they learned these from French aristocrats, but, who knows). Further, some of the demons of the Goetia were also tribal gods, in one theory, and share a terrestrial characteristic with the Orishas. Instead of being synchronized with saints, they were either outright confined to Tartarus in Christian belief or synchronized with demons (there are different opinions). These would be distinct from Celestial entities, such as Lord Murugan, who I do not think could be compelled using magick. Perhaps the Orishas could be evoked into the triangle. I'm just wondering.

[Nepthys]

The Lwa/Orishas (fundamentally, they are the same but with different names and sometimes different attributes) as spirits are different than the spirits utilized in Hoodoo. As far as Hoodoo is concerned, even when utilizing saints, it is done in the context of petitioning them, but utilizing spirits and the saints is not necessary. In fact, most banishing/money/love work is done purely in the confines of sympathetic magick with herbs, special candles, etc. So when I said these were spirits that could not be compelled, that's what I was referring to--the specific cosmological framework in which Hoodoo operates.

As far as the sigils used in Voodoo, they are properly called "veves" (vuh-VAYZ) and they don't really bear any similarity to the sigils from the Goetia. Here are some examples:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veve

While structurally there is some similarity, I don't see a way to point at a particular veve and say it is derived from a particular sigil. In fact, the Yoruba religions practiced in places like Benin and Togo in Africa utilize veves that are strikingly similar to the ones used in Voodoo. I can't argue authoritatively on their origin, but I find it difficult to believe that New World Voodoo learned the veves from French aristocracy familiar with the Goetia. Additionally, the personifications of the Lwa/Orishas tend towards being very human in appearance whereas most of the Goetic entities (IIRC) have more monstrous attributes such as wings, horns, etc, so it's difficult here again to draw an anthropological connection between the two traditions.

I've heard the theory that the Goetic entities were originally regional deities that were confined. I know the introduction to my copy of the Goetia illumined the theory that these were demons antagonizing the ancient Israelites and they were bound up under the Seal of Solomon, so I think the terrestrial connection here is telling in so far as how the two pantheons are described, and (this is me jumping out on a limb) probably explains the different approaches to their communion. In the Christo-magickal tradition of the Goetia, the spirits are bound and therefore must serve the magician who compels them. In the Voodoo/Hoodoo tradition, the spirits are NOT bound and therefore must be treated with respect and humility. As far as summoning a Lwa into a triangle, I am not sure how well that would go over. My personal experience with them is that they are incredibly powerful entities. I managed to annoy one at one point and my life was turned into a complete hell until I could rectify my relationship with that particular Lwa. Mind you, this did not occur in the context of compelling him via the Ars Solomonic. But I am personally resigned to not trying it out. If you decided to experiment in compelling a Lwa into appearance, I would love to hear how it turns out. It is a very interesting thought.

[latho313]

thank you for the replys as you can probably tell im very new to all this, that bieng magick in general as i read your replys i notice i have no clue what you are talking about it would help if i could have somebody to chat to on this to help me through all of this as i am willing to learn alot about magick and the many types of magick and as i learn all of this i have a goal to gain something out of this that a spirirt, demon or even angel can grant me from what i know im probably looking towards evocation? im not too sure. i find i learn alot more when i have somebody to help me that i can ask questions say when i read a book and i have questions about it i can turn to them.

[Nahemah]

Here's a selection from Wikipedia on crossroads lore,there's a lot of it from many cultures.

I live between several sets of crossed roads,so life here can be very interesting,lol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?sea ... fulltext=1

Crossroads are liminal places and their guardians open and/or bar the paths between worlds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liminality

thank you for the replys as you can probably tell im very new to all this, that bieng magick in general as i read your replys i notice i have no clue what you are talking about it would help if i could have somebody to chat to on this to help me through all of this as i am willing to learn alot about magick and the many types of magick and as i learn all of this i have a goal to gain something out of this that a spirirt, demon or even angel can grant me from what i know im probably looking towards evocation? im not too sure. i find i learn alot more when i have somebody to help me that i can ask questions say when i read a book and i have questions about it i can turn to them.

Ask questions here.
Also dig around in the folders,Ceremonial in particular would be good for evocation queries and there are lots of topics there you may find very helpful.

It's quiet here this week so far,but we do have lots of experienced and knowledgable members who will be happy to answer you/help. [thumbup]

[Nepthys]

It's no problem at all! Ask questions! It's the only way to learn and grow. I do apologize if my replies weren't exactly beginner friendly. It's been a LONG time since I was a beginner, and some time since I've given any instruction to anybody so some things I take for granted are probably brand new concepts to others. Wikipedia is a good site, but really the best way to learn about anything is to get the texts and study them. Then put the theory into practice.

If you do go the route of evocation, definitely master the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram (LBRP shorthand you might have seen thrown around) but don't jump straight into evoking a demon/angel/spirit/etc. It takes a lot of discipline to evoke them properly, evoke the right one, and more discipline still to control it appropriately. If you are still really interested in the crossroads ritual, please read up at the lucky mojo page I linked you to earlier, and I would be more than happy to discuss some particulars of it with you if you're interested. Otherwise, I haven't done evocation in ages and don't really practice anything ceremonial anymore so I won't be of much use in that regard.

[latho313]

thanks for the rplies youv all been a great help!

[latho313]

If you are still really interested in the crossroads ritual, please read up at the lucky mojo page I linked you to earlier, and I would be more than happy to discuss some particulars of it with you if you're interested. Otherwise, I haven't done evocation in ages and don't really practice anything ceremonial anymore so I won't be of much use in that regard.

i have read the luckymojo page you linked and im confused as to what to think, it names so many different ways to do this and i not too sure witch one to try if anyone has successfully done this id like to hear some stories from a first hand experience or if anyone is planning on doing this it would be great to listen to what way you are going to do this and if it works after you have done it.

im going to ask a fairly stupid question here i just need to get it off my mind, when making a crossroads pact or anything to do with deals or communicating with entities, say you make a deal and you give them what they want and all that is it possible to ask for something like the ability to control minds or power over an element or even telekinesis? [confused]

[Nepthys]

i have read the luckymojo page you linked and im confused as to what to think, it names so many different ways to do this and i not too sure witch one to try if anyone has successfully done this id like to hear some stories from a first hand experience or if anyone is planning on doing this it would be great to listen to what way you are going to do this and if it works after you have done it.

Remember that Cat Yronwood, the woman who maintains the Lucky Mojo Curio Company, its website, forum, and correspondence course in Hoodoo, is first and foremost interested in anthropology, so she gathers up first hand accounts (which will naturally have conflicting information) and tries to tease out the common threads linking each of the experiences. Utilizing a resource like that requires you to look at it similarly. One man says "x" amount of days, another says "y" amount of days. What connects them? They are all odd numbered amounts of days (odd numbers being preferable in Hoodoo over even numbers), usually in the neighborhood of 5, 7, or 9. I can give you a step-by-step guide to send you out and on your way to do the crossroads ritual, but it will differ from a step-by-step guide given by someone else. Also, most of the quotes given by Cat Yronwood as pertains to the contemporary practice come from an amazing body of work collected in the 1930's by Harry Middleton Hyatt (the local university library has a copy of his work and I have had a chance to skim through it. It is a treasure trove!) who collected them through interview, so all the quotes of his ARE first hand accounts. Also, the second link I provided is a first hand account of someone who performed the ritual, as well.

im going to ask a fairly stupid question here i just need to get it off my mind, when making a crossroads pact or anything to do with deals or communicating with entities, say you make a deal and you give them what they want and all that is it possible to ask for something like the ability to control minds or power over an element or even telekinesis? [confused]

As far as all the anthropological evidence I've read and as far as first hand accounts I've read about and talked about seem to suggest that the crossroads ritual is really only successful with dexterous skills--ie, things involving physical hands-on skills. If you're asking for things that are along the lines of Hollywood-style CGI and SFX, you're barking up the wrong tree ENTIRELY.

[latho313]

thanks for answering my questions. what exactly would i be looking towards for such abilities?

and with the accounts i read on the luckymojo page most of them are for guitar playing and you go to the crossroads and pick away at your guitar what would you do if you wanted to be gifted in all musical areas such as singing playing instruments dancing? and in return for these talents what would you offer?

[Nepthys]

The guitar playing example is used widely because of a specific legend concerning a specific singer. Remember that the crossroads ritual as described in most sources today is Southern American in origin. The practitioners of Hoodoo in the latter part of the 19th and early part of the 20th centuries weren't really concerned with anything beyond mundane matters. Because someone performed the ritual and made it big because of it, the people who practiced Hoodoo as a part of daily life (without any thought to its more esoteric implications) began trying to develop their own guitar skills through the same methods. It's very much similar to struggling artists sending their demo recordings to big labels that found other struggling unknowns.

As far as the skills one would request, it is usually something that involves manual dexterity. Learning to read tarot better, making mojo hands, mixing powders and potions, etc. etc. Psychic powers (mind control, telekinesis, etc.) and elemental powers fall outside this category of tangible dexterity. The example at the other forum was of a person trying to improve his scrying ability. Because this is a psychic power that involves the mind's eye rather than any real manual dexterity, it apparently didn't work as well for him. He reported a slight increase in ability, but nothing to write home about. There were other critiques with HOW he performed the ritual, so it could have been effected in that way as well. Keeping this in mind, I would say it is THEORETICALLY possible to ask for an increase in skills for anything. It's just traditionally only been used for skills requiring manual dexterity.

All that being said, if we can assume this ritual can increase skills in any category, remember that you must demonstrate at least a notion of that skill every night of the ritual. If you don't know how to do something AT ALL, then I can't say that you would see any increase. A two-fold increase of zero is still zero. So if you don't already know how to control other people's minds or control particular elements, going and requesting it would be a waste of your time and effort.

Now, on to your particular example of becoming more accomplished in ALL musical areas, consider the fact that in music you do not learn how to play all musical instruments and learn how to sing and learn how to dance all at once. You choose a specific starting point and build from there. Likewise, even if you could be given great skill in a variety of instruments and performance arts all at once, how would you manage that? If you couldn't practice them all frequently and with equal measure, some of it will naturally wane over time, so, again, you will have wasted your time. My advice in this would be to choose one particular instrument or one particular performance art and perform the ritual.

As far as an offering is concerned, there are only a couple historical examples I can think of where a deliberate offering was made. One required blood sacrifice and the other required you to find a dead cat prior to the ritual (no mention on if it had to already be dead or not). The vast majority of historical accounts and first hand accounts mention no offering whatsoever. If you want to make an offering just to be sure, keeping in mind that this comes from the Hoodoo tradition, a shot of dark rum or whiskey every night would be appropriate and sufficient. The spirits of Hoodoo love liquor and tobacco for some reason. Since I love them, too, I don't argue with it. It just means I get to have a shot of whiskey and a smoke when working roots.

Now, you've mentioned several different skills as examples for what one would ask for in regards to this ritual. May I ask what you are specifically seeking to improve?

Edit: Also, I notice you keep mentioning "pacts" and "deals". Just a friendly warning, most spirits are infinitely more clever than you are. They've been around awhile and have had time to think things through. If a spirit ever demands a legitimate pact or deal, remember you WILL get the short end of the stick and should just walk away from whatever it's offering you. Even in Ceremonial Magick where direct contact with spirits is the norm, pacts and deals are not part of the equation. The Goetia, Key of Solomon, etc. all include page after page of incantations to compel the spirit to obey precisely so you don't have to OWE the spirit anything. Any story that you read involving a pact with a spirit is either a) fiction, or b) the result of someone doing something they shouldn't have. Any system of magic that explicitly requires pacts with spirits is a system best left alone.

[latho313]

thanks for the help i understand it alot better now. its seems rather childish but from what i knew of the ritual from stories was i could just bury a box containing certain things and a spirit will apear and i could ask for whatever i want, in this case i was looking to gain a rather impossible feat such as mind control and then i would offer my soul in return. what my main question now is is it possible in anyway to be granted this ability in any magickal way, the thoery i was going on at one point was that demons have many abilities and i was thinking they might be able to grant me one of those abilities. it seems far fetched right now but would that be possible? i have read up abit on evocation and looked at angels and i read about an angel (cant remember the name) that is associated with the element of water and can help with physic abilities and clairvoyance, i was thinking if this angel is associated with the element of water it would be able to grant the ability to control water.. i know these seem like stupid questions but i just want to clear all that up for myself.

[Nepthys]

Nope! No stupid questions!

As far as being "granted" the ability, even through evocation, I stand by what I said earlier about building and honing a skill. Evoking an angel to set you on the right path to having the ability you want will probably work so far as getting you started, but it won't be an overnight thing where you go to sleep after the evocation one night and wake up the next morning a fully-accomplished aquamancer. Same goes for any kind of mind control or other similar skills sets. Also, do as much reading as you can on the fundamentals of magical practice as it will help you identify certain exercises that can help build these skills for you, that way, when you do evoke an entity to help you, there will be fertile ground in which their gift can grow. No skill is immediate. Gifts from the divine still require work and dedication, they just speed things along a little bit.

[latho313]

thanks for the reply youve helped alot

[Nahemah]

Nope! No stupid questions!

Yep.No worries on that,here either.

It's part of what we do here and most of us are happy to help,if we can.

I like questions,they keep me sharp and I often learn by answering them and having to think a little to do so. [thumbup]

[Asurendra]

Hello Latho313,

I can offer you some advice on this based upon my experiences with invocation of Devas/Angels in a circle and with an Almadel. I agree that the fundamental skills require work and I would add that you can acquire them on your own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTLCdIkDaAk (basic energy work is universally useful in all paths)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N6FeKOJzBw (self-hypnosis is important for entering into a trance)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8GrUeE0eHs (mediation is very important)

I have never found a video I really like, but, Trataka Yoga is a good technique to develop clairvoyance. Another way of accomplishing this is by working with the tattwaa scrying method. Both work because they train the eyes how to focus. http://spyebook.org/download/Magical-Ta ... 12063.html

[Asurendra]

I have been thinking over what Nepthys wrote the Lwa and when he annoyed one. This stuck with me. It certainly does not sound like the Devas, who do not manifest their wrathful aspect to their devotees (so far as I am aware). I would be stunned if such a thing were said of a Celestial Being like Lord Murugan, for example. My opinion, in general, is that philosophical & religious system, people or entities which use fear as a tool of control are to be avoided.

[Nepthys]

I have been thinking over what Nepthys wrote the Lwa and when he annoyed one. This stuck with me. It certainly does not sound like the Devas, who do not manifest their wrathful aspect to their devotees (so far as I am aware). I would be stunned if such a thing were said of a Celestial Being like Lord Murugan, for example. My opinion, in general, is that philosophical & religious system, people or entities which use fear as a tool of control are to be avoided.

^^That. Very sound advice.

My opinion is that, generally, spirits fall into two categories: bound and free. Bound spirits can more easily be controlled through will and invocation. Free spirits can't be as easily controlled, but can be easily supplicated. A bound spirit is less likely to go out of his way to attack you, but bound spirits have always been...somewhat lacking for me. Free spirits seem to be able to go do things in a hurry and with great power. Unfortunately, that's part of the system in which they operate, that they can get results but they expect to be paid. When has a Goetic entity ever required payment for their services? You just threaten them into submission. The Lwa, however, demand payment for their services, and failure to deliver a payment (payment is usually quite small and not really in line with what we would think a particular action would be worth were we to do it for someone else) generally results in a) a wasted effort, and b) some bad juju following you around until you ante up.

If you aren't prepared to deal with free spirits, don't. I know a guy who got the veve of one of the Voodoo Lwa tattooed on his chest. He developed a very deep and personal relationship with this Lwa, and the Lwa went from being rather unpredictable to being almost a doting partner. Free spirits have much less predictable personalities, and I think that's what draws me to them. They are much more identifiable on a personal level and there's less "other"-ness about them. But they are powerful, strong, and can get bitchy. Hence why I don't utilize their direct involvement as often as I otherwise might.

[Vodou Maniac]

Lots of missinformations here*

Find out more about Haiaian Voodoo,Papa Legba,the Yoruba diaspora and Ellegua too

Papa Legba has nothing to do with crossroads.

Legba has nothing to do with Ellegua

You visit the crossroads at or near about midnight for several consecutive nights (5, 7, or 9) and you will eventually see a "man in black". This is not a demon or the devil, but can be equated with the Voodoo lwa Papa Legba who is the gatekeeper and guardian of the crossroads.

Legba has nothing to do with the black man
Legba - I repeat - has nothing to do with the crossroads

The Lwa/Orishas (fundamentally, they are the same but with different names and sometimes different attributes)

Wrong again. Lwas&Orishas are different spirits coming from different traditions and part of Africa


*Seriously people, educate yourself before wanting to sound as a teacher.

Unless you know what you're doing, leave crossroads spirits alone, they are very powerful and can fuck you up quite easily if you don't know how to work with them.