Magic, as in illusion...

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Procel
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Magic, as in illusion...

Post by Procel »

Who here is a magician? By magician, I mean illusionist. Any pro performers? Amateurs?

Myself, I am at best a dabbler at magic. Like a lot of children I was enthralled by magicians, but lacked the discipline to put in the practice to be good. Over time, I just stopped with "tricks" but I have always loved to watch a magician perform. In my opinion, there is a real magic to performing arts. Like a good actor or musician leads the audience to an emotional experience; a good magician performs an illusion and his audience experiences magic. Anyway, now that I am a grandfather I have re visited "magic" tricks. I'm working some vanishing/conjuring and doing some spoon bending. Partly for fun and partly as physical therapy. Sleight of hand is surprisingly good for hand, finger and wrist issues.

The reason I bring this up here is the long intertwined history of magic and magick. There have of course been frauds who presented themselves as being 'other worldly powerful' who were in fact talented illusionist like Caligliostro. On the other hand it is known that the priests of ancient Egypt who were presumably doing real Work also used tricks to keep the less educated masses convinced of their power. There is archeological evidence that they used dove tricks not too different from some you still underperformed today. I am not saying that it's a good idea to mix parlor tricks and occult study. In fact I think both would suffer and the fool who mixed them would be worse for his stupidity. I have to wonder the price paid by those who did it over the eons. Still, there is a historical connection and magic may have sparked the curiosity that set some on The Path. So, all that blabbering said, who here does a trick or two?

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Desecrated
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Re: Magic, as in illusion...

Post by Desecrated »

I do a trick or two. Nothing serious, just for fun.

I like watching stage magicians because of their skill. Even if I know how they do the trick, that doesn't mean I will be able to spot it.
And also I think it is important to have some knowledge of it so that you don't get fooled.

If you want to know more about the egyptian magicians, the westcar papyri is the best text we have.

Procel
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Re: Magic, as in illusion...

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I have been reading and practicing and wanted to post a little more in hopes of getting some more discussion rolling.

I am increasingly seeing that illusion may have played a greater roll in historical faith than it gets credit for. Much the way that successful spies get no credit in history books, because leaving no trace of their hand was a defining element of their success, magicians through the ages were successful if and only if their magic passes as magick.

A couple of observations. As I said, I've been playing with coins and silverware. Disappear and reappear a coin and people think it's cute. Bend a fork tine and people either think you are channeling other worldly power, or that you are a fraud. Either way, it's a visceral reaction. Second observation from acts I have watched but haven't delved into; people can be deeply moved during a mentalism routine. Guess the name they wrote, and cold read the significance (they almost always pick a significant target in a mind reading act) and grown men sometimes come to tears. The conclusion I reach from these observations and from history (old and new) is that an unethical performer who picks his audience well can become a supernatural godlike being in the eyes of a handful of people. The open ended question becomes, how much of the faiths of millions may be based on people following good cold readers? Was the Oracle of Delphi talented troupe of carnies?

The oldest known image of Christ (as far as I know oldest, but if not the oldest certainly old) is on pottery found near Alexandria. The piece has an image of a man and text that reads "Jesus the magician" (possibly Christ the magician, I'm writing from memory) which begs the question, was he a faith healer and illusionist par excellence who retired and left town after one of the greatest heart stop illusions of all time? I'm not saying that as an opinion I can or will support, but I am saying it as food for thought and speculation. Also, I don't claim to originate the idea. I read it and bring it here for discussion.

It's been argued that the difference between a religion and a cult is what happens when the leader dies. Sans Peter, Christ would be a footnote in middle eastern history. Sans Iesha, Mohammed was just another warlord. (So goes the argument) It's entirely possible that both men were as their followers believe them to be. Jesus may have been created of virgin birth and sent by God, or he may have been a prophet as other faiths see him. Mohammed may have been a prophet contacted by Gabriel in a cave and ascended to heaven. Or..... they may have been extraordinary men who left an impact on people who turned them into more than the men had been after they died. Jesus multiplied loaves and turned water into wine. That's not so far from typical stage magic except that under the conditions his audience would see it much differently than you or I see David Blaine. Mohammed saw into people's hearts, so does Kreskin. Kreskin parlayed his knack into lots of appearances on tv and a comfortable entertainers living. Mohammed did pretty well for himself too.

So, given that this is an occult forum, we all believe in the reality of magic to one degree or another. We all also see manipulated masses and charlatans around us. It is, after all, the US presidential election year. What do you perceive the effect of illusionists to be on the course of human belief?

I don't mean to cut off any discussion of the original question (that wasn't getting much action) so if anyone wants to talk about performance illusion, cool. But my reading makes me want to expand the discussion to the impact of illusion on belief, and there for on reality.

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fraterai
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Re: Magic, as in illusion...

Post by fraterai »

I think that yes you are right, occultism (more so in the past) has often blended stage magic to the point where it really makes it look like all of it could be charlatanism. I can think of so many examples, from the "Yogi's" in India that to this day use different tricks for money, or the Southern tea room mediums that would make a whole show of it. I think that of course historically there have probably been more scammers and illusionists than actual working occultists, but I don't think that was the whole point or even the main point in blending the stage magic with the real occultism.

First off, entertainment has changed drastically over time and we have to remember that people did a lot of things for entertainment that are "lost" on most people today, and so when they went out and spent their hard earned money they hoped to be entertained. An occultist knew this, it was part of their job, and you need gimmicks and the extra mile to keep your customers coming back.

Second, equally important, most or all ritual and ceremonial magicians will explain to you that the props and costumes and such are there to trick even the mind of the operator, as these things work on a psychological and emotional level and not just purely logically, when even we know the "secret" of the trick. So I think these added elements get people in the right frame of mind to relax, etc., and the occultist may have better conditions to work under.

I was also really into stage magic growing up, I would go and see magicians and practiced cards, juggling, etc., a lot. I think there is a huge connection between these two topics and agree that learning about slight of hand and more are both physical and mental exercises that can really benefit both the occultist and every day person in so many ways

It is very possible these masters had some occult abilities plus a well thought out "life character" and method of performance, or it was all the former, or all the latter. It is hard to say!
Only right reflection and right meditation can free you - Ananda Metteya

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