Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

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Horny Goat
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Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

Post by Horny Goat »

What role do you believe that demons play in human wars? What role do you believe that angels play in them? If demons exist, then does Satan/the devil exist and if so what role does he play in human wars? What role does God play in human wars?

What role does the national egregore play in wars between nations? What role does it play in a civil war? I refer to a true civil war rather than something like Syria where armies of foreign mercenaries have been sent in to overthrow the government.

What role does the collective unconscious play in a human war?

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Cerber
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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

Post by Cerber »

Neverending wars between different factions, some more sinister than others, that sometimes manifest in the realm of physical matter. Or something along the lines.
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Desecrated
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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

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None.

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Cerber
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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

Post by Cerber »

Desecrated wrote:None.
haha [grin] that was actually funny
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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

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Desecrated wrote:None.

You think they have no influence? How come you think that? Please say more. Thank you.

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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

Post by cactusjack543 »

a measure of barely for a measure OK GUARANTEED..:) .. ..- right solid choice ha (cos?) simply change mans history into caos with a real fist NICE.. money in two days...
Late legal legit landlord papeers.... Signed mianatlantian4-7-11-13-16-28-43-48-53-78-400-480-666-780-999-(1004.1017.4,000.17,000.40,000.48,000) - 4 univ (from below-shades of grey) buy out everything milk even gravity.... so far 4 univ, 4 galaxies, 4 solor systems, 4 respect galaxy, 4 irobot galaxy, 4 vurtual reality galaxy, 4 (i lack in most) galaxy, 4 black hole galaxy, eeven relating creates awareness mission exceptence too earn keep.... recognised people may have extra for....

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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

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Horny Goat wrote:
Desecrated wrote:None.

You think they have no influence? How come you think that? Please say more. Thank you.
I don't think they exist.

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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

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Desecrated wrote:None.
Disagree, if you look at the Haitian Revolution and other wars people were clearly calling on spirits for help which shows up widely in historical testimonies.
"Follow the path of the radiant life force as she flashes upward like lightning through your body." - Vijanabhairava Tantra

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Cerber
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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

Post by Cerber »

That as well depends on what you call a demon. Difference between lower demons and those called "angels" by some no more than between humans and chimpanzees, barely a handful of genes.
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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

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the_spiral wrote:
Desecrated wrote:None.
Disagree, if you look at the Haitian Revolution and other wars people were clearly calling on spirits for help which shows up widely in historical testimonies.
Well of course people are asking for help. that doesn't meanthat they exist just because people are asking for it.People are asking for santa clause and easter bunny all the time.

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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

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Desecrated wrote:
the_spiral wrote:
Desecrated wrote:None.
Disagree, if you look at the Haitian Revolution and other wars people were clearly calling on spirits for help which shows up widely in historical testimonies.
Well of course people are asking for help. that doesn't meanthat they exist just because people are asking for it.People are asking for santa clause and easter bunny all the time.
Well if you simply don't believe spiritual forces exist that's one thing. But if you do, they are constantly interfering in human wars according to mythology and historical narratives across cultures.
"Follow the path of the radiant life force as she flashes upward like lightning through your body." - Vijanabhairava Tantra

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cactusjack543
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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

Post by cactusjack543 »

well the way i see it im sponcering the night with this years money.... 2 wives given to vancouver and baby so cant look at women but every womenjust like a fear well highlight of mians so working on it..

im floading spiritual forces into the island reaching the mainland going global and lowering town to so called hell free all below hopefully things will clear up....
Late legal legit landlord papeers.... Signed mianatlantian4-7-11-13-16-28-43-48-53-78-400-480-666-780-999-(1004.1017.4,000.17,000.40,000.48,000) - 4 univ (from below-shades of grey) buy out everything milk even gravity.... so far 4 univ, 4 galaxies, 4 solor systems, 4 respect galaxy, 4 irobot galaxy, 4 vurtual reality galaxy, 4 (i lack in most) galaxy, 4 black hole galaxy, eeven relating creates awareness mission exceptence too earn keep.... recognised people may have extra for....

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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

Post by Cybernetic_Jazz »

I have a feeling most of the answers you'll get will be a bit rough in either one direction or the other and probably won't be of much help aside from assuring you that no one really knows.

Essentially yes, if the stuff's externally and autonomously 'real' then it's quite likely there's nothing happening that's not piggy-backing on the momentum of something else (whether we can see that something else or not) and human behavior in that case human behavior, especially en mass, is little more than ebbs and flows of ocean waves in cross-section.

I tend to at least subscribe to the idea that consciousness is woven throughout the universe myself. For example while we don't have a whole lot of correlates for human and animal nerves we see the same kinds of webbing in telecom systems as well as roadways, ie. hubs attempting connection with maximum efficiency. You see something like that similar to the webbing of the universe into super-clusters as well. Seems like there are a lot of things in general, probably more contextual at this point, that seem to suggest that consciousness may very well be an aspect of dynamic systems in general albeit after a somewhat different nature to human consciousness as in yes - we're incredibly lucky to have the sort of hardware we have and it's equally possible that very little in the way of sentient life in the universe can come close to how compact we are with respect to pound-for-pound intelligence. For example I get a kick out of William Mistele talking to the elemental beings of Bardon's books, and it seems like what he's gathering in the way of the kings and queens are almost like core weather, marine, or geological dynamics in a personified form where, similarly, the little elementals themselves would be like tributaries - all of it tastes very animistic and also, sort of, Neoplatonist.

I have questions as well that get raised with this stuff, ie. sort of the Neoplatonism vs. animism debate that Gordon White tends to bring up. For example Neoplatonism sees stacking systems where the pieces add up to a whole almost anywhere one looks therefore something like a gentler version of the Judaic YHVH is assumed - ie. the super-set of all super-sets which is the 'good'. I think animism probably has to have some degree of that, ie. our cells add up to organs, our organs add up to bodies, all of these things have concurrent existence and while Ned Block might laugh a bit at functionalism in the context of emergence by way of sighting the 'China mind' experiment as a failure of what's called multiple realizabillity (ie. the cells to organs to bodies thing I was talking about) - we as magicians have no trouble with that at all, we call those egregores.


I hope I didn't just ramble all over the place but to circle back - I'm pretty sure most of what I do is a combination of sensory input refracting off my brain and accrued identity, and much of my subconscious stuff hits me as - while deeply filial - almost as foreign of territory as the external. Hence, my behavior comes through me and passes either out of me, back down, or into something else (like this post). it's impossible for anyone to suggest that we aren't a weather pattern of the universe. The question is how do we identify our inputs as such, especially at the symbolic level. While it doesn't seem like every entity people encounter mirror or piggy-back on a natural force or particular stable ocean or wind current, continent, or volcano it does seem like we're addressing a different side - perhaps something more intrinsic - within what we've, at least in the last couple centuries, mistakenly referred to as dead matter.
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Cerber
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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

Post by Cerber »

Cybernetic_Jazz wrote:.. no one really knows...
Is that one of those "well known facts"?
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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

Post by Cybernetic_Jazz »

Cerber wrote:
Cybernetic_Jazz wrote:.. no one really knows...
Is that one of those "well known facts"?
The whole sentence:
Cybernetic_Jazz wrote:I have a feeling most of the answers you'll get will be a bit rough in either one direction or the other and probably won't be of much help aside from assuring you that no one really knows.
What I was saying is they'll get such a disparate barrage of answers, with none of them seeming to be authoritative, that yes - I do think they could rationally come to that conclusion. That's not unique here though, it seems to be everywhere.
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Cerber
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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

Post by Cerber »

One should have a set of rules and algorithms to sort those answers and not just merely take it for its face value.
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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

Post by Cybernetic_Jazz »

Well right, but to the extent that there's so much personal variance that such is necessary sort of explains the predicament.

If someone asks me about this stuff I can't exactly give them Rudolph Steiner's Outline of the Occult Sciences, or Max Hiendel's Cosmo Conception and say 'This is it - he nailed it in this book', nor can I do that with AP Sinnett, HPB, Crowley, Regardie, or even Fortune. It really seems like the higher level and sharper the magician, especially the current Hermetic crowd, the more they want to talk about the spiritual work, the integrity that's required or the aims of the alchemical ascent of the ToL, etc.. and try to avoid the inner planes specifics, gate guardians and archons, etc.. dialog. When they do get pressed on these issues by a nerdy enough interviewer it's a bit like the analogies between actual autonomous beings vs. universal structure is that fast, loose, and interchangeable that they tend to only trust the relationships rather than their content if that makes sense. That also reminds me of the studies of the four elements and how they seem like a study of dynamic systems and behaviorism within matter rather than the matter itself.

I think that's part of why it be very difficult for anyone to answer the OP question - because there's reason to believe that the relationships between the symbols mean something but if it seems like the symbol sets are so fungible hardly anyone wants to talk about one nation's set of gods and goddess vs. anothers and I think this is probably why a lot of Hermetic magicians at least like putting the topics under the heading of the seven planets and discuss forces of the sephira rather than individual identities.

I don't mean to pontificate here either - if anyone strongly disagrees I'd highly value if they chimed in. This is just the impression I feel like I'm pushed toward and I offer it in lieu of any clearer interpretation that's still forthcoming.
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cactusjack543
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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

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supports for eternity back up by his sea most conquering all one disease every hour humanity needs to give 2 wives and baby sacriced iin thy vancouver, there contacts backed up by their organs to evolve to have no money on earth...

strange rule women hood can be seen instead of cloning our intelegence to live 5,000 years old women hood gets fixated athizm future days of no money and only credit some decided not to add on to the rule...
Late legal legit landlord papeers.... Signed mianatlantian4-7-11-13-16-28-43-48-53-78-400-480-666-780-999-(1004.1017.4,000.17,000.40,000.48,000) - 4 univ (from below-shades of grey) buy out everything milk even gravity.... so far 4 univ, 4 galaxies, 4 solor systems, 4 respect galaxy, 4 irobot galaxy, 4 vurtual reality galaxy, 4 (i lack in most) galaxy, 4 black hole galaxy, eeven relating creates awareness mission exceptence too earn keep.... recognised people may have extra for....

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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

Post by Cybernetic_Jazz »

^
And what he said.
You don't have to do a thing perfect, just relentlessly.

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cactusjack543
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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

Post by cactusjack543 »

life got the best of me my job was over 2 years ago im turning life evil from know on im canceling faith and all support..
Late legal legit landlord papeers.... Signed mianatlantian4-7-11-13-16-28-43-48-53-78-400-480-666-780-999-(1004.1017.4,000.17,000.40,000.48,000) - 4 univ (from below-shades of grey) buy out everything milk even gravity.... so far 4 univ, 4 galaxies, 4 solor systems, 4 respect galaxy, 4 irobot galaxy, 4 vurtual reality galaxy, 4 (i lack in most) galaxy, 4 black hole galaxy, eeven relating creates awareness mission exceptence too earn keep.... recognised people may have extra for....

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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

Post by bathtub-alchemist »

I always thought that if the Nazi swastika was facing the other way World War II would have ended in their favor

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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

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basically 1 page no religion except satans 10 respect..... 50 50 chance sin turned job 7 11 may your wisdom be doubled ALMOST REACHING MAN but where 7 billion people get it from who knows bc cos kk ha.... gave dna code here might be a third corizone....
Late legal legit landlord papeers.... Signed mianatlantian4-7-11-13-16-28-43-48-53-78-400-480-666-780-999-(1004.1017.4,000.17,000.40,000.48,000) - 4 univ (from below-shades of grey) buy out everything milk even gravity.... so far 4 univ, 4 galaxies, 4 solor systems, 4 respect galaxy, 4 irobot galaxy, 4 vurtual reality galaxy, 4 (i lack in most) galaxy, 4 black hole galaxy, eeven relating creates awareness mission exceptence too earn keep.... recognised people may have extra for....

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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

Post by 777Sloan »

Horny Goat wrote:What role do you believe that demons play in human wars?
Readying for the feeding grounds.

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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

Post by Hound »

777Sloan wrote:
Horny Goat wrote:What role do you believe that demons play in human wars?
Readying for the feeding grounds.
Remember to bring pie.

But in all seriousness, to OP, it would be to ask what a person considers a 'demon'. Considering one person's demon is another person's benevolent spirit.

A being's interest in the conflict of man would have to be personal. Are non-physical entities capable of aiding or sabotaging such things? Probably. It would be to ask why they'd want to. What stake do they have in it? Who are they aligned with?

Let's not forget angels are mindless automatons bred for the slaughter of mortal men. I mean if we're actually being true to the bible and all :).

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Re: Spiritual Forces and Human Wars

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Hound wrote:
777Sloan wrote:
Horny Goat wrote:What role do you believe that demons play in human wars?
Readying for the feeding grounds.
Remember to bring pie.

But in all seriousness, to OP, it would be to ask what a person considers a 'demon'. Considering one person's demon is another person's benevolent spirit.

A being's interest in the conflict of man would have to be personal. Are non-physical entities capable of aiding or sabotaging such things? Probably. It would be to ask why they'd want to. What stake do they have in it? Who are they aligned with?

Let's not forget angels are mindless automatons bred for the slaughter of mortal men. I mean if we're actually being true to the bible and all :).
You are the pie.

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