OneOfFourth wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:18 pm
Yep, sounds familiar. I also "envelope the arena" or put a energy cage around it (if I remember to do that, been doing that for a few weeks now), but I don't sense the energy signature at all. I see visually what's going on and that's about it
But it's also easy to grab or push anything in sight, even if it looks like it's really far away. I can easily grab it and pull it next to me or push away at will.
I'd like to know more how to sense the enregy signature and what it feels like. I want to know if I'm somehow handicappedin that department. Then again I did sense the creepy crawlies entity last week when it arrived and decided to use me as a diner. So I guess there must be something there. Not sure how to do it at will.
Hmmm, I think the difference between an empathic impression of some being, and sensing it's energy signature, is just a difference of depth vs. superficiality. The core nature of a being tends to have multiple facets, some of which are not necessarily 'active' at a given time. A being may be very much within a particular facet (among a range of possible frames of mind) at a particular encounter. But a sort of deeper sense of the subject reveals some of the nuance of structure, not all of which is making noise at the moment. I think you could approach it as a subtle nuanced overtone to the empathic feel of a subject. But it might be more accurate to say that it's sort of a probing of the wiring & plumbing, both active & inactive, particularly at the core of the subject's energy body.
Catch a coworker on a bad day, and use that alone to judge their nature, and you might think they are lousy company. But even with a superficial read of someone, there's usually 'tells', which speak to the underlying complexity of their nature. Is there a subtle hint of frustration? That would speak to the idea that they'd rather have a different demeanor than what they do right now. I might just smile and say "are you ok?". Alternatively, maybe there's a hint of predatory excitement... in which case you've got a textbook 'bully', and I would be almost shockingly unpleasant if that were the case. Or perhaps not. Depends, is it tinged with low self esteem? Or sadism? Anyway, that's just kinda 1 step beyond a very superficial empathic read on someone. So if a superficial read on someone is 'A', then 1 step further into their mind is 'B'
Take that to an extreme though, really dive deep into their mind/energy, and their core is there ( 'C' through 'Z' ). Um, it's 'intrusive' to probe deep like that. I tend to just do it anyway.
Once you have a nuanced, detailed, sense of their energy (Only some of which really seems like psychological machinations, some of it seems like energy-resonance or light body substance), then it's very easy to create a connection with that sentience again. It's as simple as dwelling on that remembered sensation of them. I could see memory being an issue. It's not like remembering a code, it's more like remembering a work of art, it's texture, style, meaning, emotional evocation, etc. If you knew several works of art from an artist very very well, you could probably be shown a work of art by that same artist and identify it's creator accurately. It's a bit like that.
Anyway, with astral/OBE I like to say "focus is location". In the sense that what you focus on, dwell on, etc. really defines where you go, and what you interact with. In a more general sense, if you astrally project with just a mood, you'll likely go somewhere fitting to that mood, or interact with something which mirrors that mood (either as a match for it, or as a reciprocal opposite mirror image). Basically if you're in a dark frame of mind, and you OBE, you're going to have a dark time. hehe.
Now increase the nuance, detail, and specificity... and instead of it being a connection to a general theme, it can be a connection to a specific entity. Like you're resonating with their quintessential nature. The unique fingerprint of their energy.
Um, but i'm not sure I'm describing particularly well the part where you lean into their mind/energy and initially probe it. It's tricky to outline it well. I do it on instinct. But I didn't always. When I was younger, I found other people to be very much a mystery. So how to quantify the shift... hmmm.
Um, in my freshman year of high school, I was socially inept (probably many people could say that hehe). But lets say more socially inept than average. I wasn't on a nerd/autist level of socially inept hehe. But I didn't understand other people very well. I mean obviously that was true before my freshman year of HS, but it was around the end of my freshman year of HS that I decided I would try to change. I reasoned that I lacked an intuitive sense of other people, BUT, I had a lot of spare IQ points... so why not apply that strength to the task of shoring up my weakness?
I read "How to Win Friends and Influence People" (Dale Carnegie) that summer. (by the way, the title of that book is more cynical sounding than the content). And applying that was "helpful", I was encouraged by early success. I read another book by uh... who was it... I wanna say Eric Berne, but it might have been someone who studied under him. Anyway it was about Transactional Analysis. Basically it applied freudian psychology in understanding interpersonal interactions. I'm not really a fan of freudian psychology, but that was a very inspired take on it. It kind of breaks down the frame of mind of any given person at any given moment into a 'child', 'parent', or 'adult' mindset (mirroring id, superego, and ego, respectively), and examines how that actually plays out in practice.
I did some delving into fashion, and body language interpretation. I studied a LOT of psychology, and some self help books, etc. By the end of HS I was arguably pretty socially adept (rather than inept). But by then, it had become a "hobby of mine"(tm), and I sometimes explore hobbyist topics to a very exhaustive degree. This was an example.
In college I took an awful lot of psych classes. Also, when my interest is piqued, I have a voracious appetite for learning. I can recall skipping classes sometimes simply because I was in the library reading something interesting, and I didn't want to stop to go to a class which would disseminate knowledge much more slowly. There was a 400 level class on adolescent psychology which was especially insightful, and full of a lot of raw data.
Basically I taught myself how to be extremely knowledgeable about reading between the lines in interpersonal interactions (which was what I identified as "my problem" very early on). And when I was still in HS, before a year had passed, it became obvious that I was learning far too much information to handle it mathematically in real life situations. So I kinda transmuted the data I was absorbing into a sort of "informed sense of things". I couldn't really just sit and do a detailed analysis on the fly. I'd spend all my time analyzing and none of it interacting if I did that. I had to translate large quantities of detailed knowledge into a more artistic 'feel for it'. Basically drawing down complex equations with many variables to be handled in a manner more like hand-eye coordination. Crafting a gut instinct, out of far too much knowledge to use efficiently if it wasn't condensed.
Learned some NLP, dabbled with hypnotism, more exploring the mind...
I did not get as good at these things as Darren Brown
But, I was leaning kinda that way.
Then I had a major religious paradigm shift. I basically quit the church. One thing I very much didn't see eye to eye with someone like Darren, was that I have plenty of first hand experience with psychic perceptions. I love a rational mindset, so I kinda still lean away from the "I Want to Believe" croud. And one of the reasons I quit the church was due to disappointment from uncovering circular logic in it. So I'm very 'sciency' hehe. But with a large body of personal experiences which says "yeah... this is all much more complicated than is currently touted to be the case in the scientific community". I mean, explicit precognition for example. That's a causality violation. My "yes but..." relationship with science extends even to conflicting data vs fundamentals of theoretical physics and neuroscience.
Anyway, i'm making this too long. The point is, I started delving into the occult at that point. My religious thinking was "If not this? then what exactly?" although I was not anxious to get involved with any more dogma. But I had questions without answers. And I was unwilling to sweep first hand experiences under the rug to make things simpler.
What's relevant here though. Is that I carried that amateur? expert? lets go with "high level enthusiast" ...'inter-mind' vein of study with me into this new territory of occult study. So, almost as an automatic habit, I was making notations all along the way, about how the inter-sentience transactions worked. Sort of psychology, cognitive science, and 'mentalism', applied through the lens of "how does all this work if there actually is another, very significant layer to it?". Basically, what would Darren Brown ponder, if he woke up one day and found himself robbed of his completely secular point of view.
Hypnotism comes from Mesmerism. While hypnotism expresses it's function as entirely psychological, mesmerism dealt with ideas like "force of Will", uh, snake charming, forced involuntary hypnotism, primal negotiations between living things (like predator/prey, or mating), etc. Instead of relaxation, mesmerism tended to lean more on a 'penetrating gaze' (like Dracula in very old black & white movies). All very interesting if there was in fact some substance to reality upon which 'force of will' could apply traction as a tangible force...
Up until that point, I was 'masking' social anxiety, behind a facade of social skills. I was forcing myself to kinda just 'bear it', and 'bury it', in order to be able to be socially dynamic and engaging. But then it occurred to me the idea that my social anxiety 'could' in fact be a natural reaction to tangible, real, forces which were at play. I tinkered with things. Very rapidly I came to regard my social anxiety as uncontrolled empathy. In a very short period of time, working within this theoretical model, I "fixed" my social anxiety. I felt like I was really onto some important understandings.
Oh wow, I just realized a key issue in sensing the energy signature and mind of another being. Definitely 'fixing' my social anxiety was a prerequisite. I had to be able to just 'sense' others without that creating an involuntary reaction within myself. With social anxiety, I didn't want to make eye contact, because all the interactions which occurred were just so overwhelming. Without social anxiety... whole different story. And bear in mind, that I think everyone has at least "a little" social anxiety. So that's relevant here for anyone I think.
Early on I was trying to create 'energy structures', like a shield for example. Trying to basically work with energy flows in a very mechanical way. Eventually I came to kinda regard energy through a more uh... what does Dr Who say about time? “People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it’s more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff.” Really it's a pretty weak explanation for how time works, but I'm reminded of the kind of vague 'not really sure how to put it to words' vibe of that quote. Basically more just kind of directing will to influence energy in ways which don't necessarily make sense from a 3-D mechanical standpoint. Sort of applying 3-D chess to the 2-D realm of energy manipulation, and with greater emphasis on Will, intent, inobvious causal relationships, etc. A bit like I touched on in the example of how to loosen a nut, possibly not by crafting a wrench, but by 'being the nut, and spinning'. Almost more like infecting one's energetic surroundings with Will and Intent, on a very fundamental level, with greater impact than if you were working with visualized energy structures. I always understood the visualizations in energy manipulation to be "probably representative", rather than literal. So, I just side-step that representational process, to try to work directly with the substance of what's being done. And at that point, it's kind of entirely within a personal language of tactile experience for which there is no good way to translate it into english that I can think of. Instead of "i don't want that energy to go from there to there, so I'm going to imagine a barrier between those 2 points" it becomes more a language of speaking to the energy itself, "no, don't go there", and the effect of a barrier comes from the degree of will, focus, and intent applied. An orchestra director, rather than a craftsman.
anyway, other sentient beings, being so heavily made of and influenced by energy... are sort of within that grasp. You mentioned that you also tried "enveloping the arena", and in a way some of the you that is you extends out into the surrounding area and becomes it as well, and then shapes itself according to your will. But what if you extended yourself into the energy of the other sentient being in a similar manner? Like putting your 'hands' (for want of a more accurate term) inside the other being's energy body. probing it. not pushing or pulling, just invading, and perceiving what is there.
Obviously, someone would likely bring up the idea that there may be some risk to this. It's like channeling another sentient being, but in reverse, you're going to it, rather than it coming to you. But you can kinda subdivide the self, compartmentalize, fingertips passive, still, sensitive, while your mind pushes into the other, pulling away obstacles. The duality of it is like playing a physical sport with one hand, while in the other hand holding an egg, and not breaking it. It's not a passive thing, so much as an assertive thing, it's just handled with tactile delicacy.
Invasive, sure, yeah. But nonphysical beings can't (easily) make audible sounds. So if there is to be communication at all, there is sensing of each others' mind. Push that to a bit of an extreme, and you're inside of not just what they're outwardly thinking at you, but what they're inwardly thinking as well.
The effect I mentioned that I called a "boo!", is actually kinda crude. It depends on a normal panic-infiltration channel, of the sort which allows panic to expand through a crowd. If being wanted to have a more profound effect, it could be mixed with pulling away one's internal resistance to it at the same time. Kind of a push-pull cycling of energy, rather than just a blunt bombardment.
There's an element of sort of 'demanding' the absolute attention & focus of the other being as well, which bears a resemblance to the penetrating stare of mesmerism.
Whether such a deep invasion of anothers' mind & energy is pleasant & intimate, or violently intrusive, is really just down to how it's handled. It could be either. There's a bit of domination to it though. A whale can gently nudge you, or smash you to bits, but any tactile interaction with a whale is kinda automatically lop-sided. And in a way you're creating that sort of size differential by way of greater will focus, and more nuanced compartmentalization of thought.
Hehe, I guess it would sound dreadful to have such intimate contact with another sentience within the framework of having any lingering social anxiety at all.
Anyway, inside the onion of layers, is a sort of core of the other being. But the layers are also part of it. The peel is part of the banana, even if it's not the center of it. With all laid bare, there's a quintessential nature, the identity of the other being, which makes it 'it'. That sensation of the other being which is subtly different than any other being. The tangible nature of it, the periphery of what is meant if it thinks "me". That vibe... that sensation of the energy and mental space of the being. it's kind of permanent and intrinsic. It can change over time, but usually not to such a degree that it's no longer recognizable. If you remember that subtly nuanced "all" of the being, it's quintessence...
you could call it an energy signature, or a "true name" (coming out of khemetic schools of thought), or it's 'soul', or i dunno. You could call it the bit which casts the shadow on the wall in Plato's cave allegory. Whatever you want to call it, you can remember it (like you would remember a work of art, not like you would remember an equation, there's generalizing and varying emphasis, it's too complex to remember in a codified way), then you can just dwell on the memory of 'that' and you'll be in full contact with that being again.
I would assert that such a knowing of the quintessence of another being carries DRASTICALLY more meaning, emphasis, potency, and utility, than any phonetic series of sounds or symbols. That's one of the key areas where I differ with ritual practicioners. Sort of "look at me ...now look deeper, far deeper ...that is my true name". Not a sound, but the underlying substance of what the being says when it says "I".
After reading this, I tried exactly what you described a few days ago with success. Focusing on the elusive entity was fairly hard but I did manage to uncover it eventually. I'm not sure what kind of entity it was which was revealed by the above approach. But I kinda gave it an astral spanking for spying on me. I rarely do anything else to entities than tell them to go away, but this entity had been evading me for awhile now. I'm pretty sure it's already back again... I don't like stalkers :-/
very understandable. I definitely get your reaction. Been there, done that.
I try to be more chill about it these days though.
Yep, the creepy crawlies did the same, at least judging by the creepies and crawlies I had. Didn't give in to it much but still it was a bit unconfortable feeling.
*nod* definitely a learning curve to letting it just kinda wash past you superficially rather than internalizing it.
Kath wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:36 pm
The particular 'flavor' of that fear was a perfect match for the flavor of fear which was permeating my bad dream.
I really need to ramp up my training in discovering myself, as was mentioned earlier in this thread. Then maybe I get to sense those things properly as well... one day...
hmmm, well if you ever had a bad dream, you notice that it has a certain 'vibe' to it? Like, no 2 bad reams are exactly alike in vibe? I just mean that the vibe of my bad dream felt identical to the energy that entity was putting out. Same vibe. different context, but it seemed like if you were immersed in that energy output, you'd have exactly that vibe of dream. I only mentioned it because it really cemented in my thinking that there was a causal relationship between the entity and my bad dream.
Hmm, that's very interesting actually. How common is that decoy thing with entities you've encountered so far?
Not all that common.
but not 'uncommon' either. maybe a quarter of the time?
Yep, I'm familiar with the technique. I was about to mention that Derren Brown uses it all the time but you beat me to it ;-)
hehe, yeah. I've only been 'tranced' twice, and both times was while I was OBE, and both times used a 'distracting feature' as part of the process. It only happened kinda early on in my path. My mentor kinda outlined 'mental effects' as sort of being like one of the WMD's of inter-sentience conflict. I think I'm 'very resistant' now, to put it mildly. Although I can think of a few ways to have 'fun' with hypnosis, I can't seem to trance even if I want to now.
Why not take it as a pet then? :-) Could be useful.
That's exactly what I thought. A pet Nightmare!
but it was just so mopey about being doxed by a human... i relented and eventually left it alone
I'm fairly convinced it's some kind of psychic/spiritual connection which exists at all times. Kinda like one with a valve on it so you can turn it on/off but it's still there.
could be as simple as it's "on" when the one party thinks of the other.
that's kinda how I think of the energy signature of others. I actually have to be a little mindful of how I think when I relate stories like the one with the Nightmare for example, as just retelling the story i end up imagining it's energy signature, and then i'm in contact with it effectively. even though it's been quite a few years now.
How much emotion do you usually use when doing all that? I've heard couple of times that emotion is the fuel of magick spells and intention+thought are their specifications.
Some say relaxation & meditative state.
Some say powerful emotion even to the point of frenzy.
I say "both", simultaneously. Again kinda like holding an eggshell in one hand, while flexing with a lot of 'ooomf' with the other.
Kind of a dichotomy of mind. It sounds counter-intuitive, emphasis on "sounds" counter-intuitive, the mind can be amazingly acrobatic.
It comes to mind that the neijia martial arts (internal martial arts), touch on this dichotomy a lot. Extreme stillness combined with releases of intense force.
Fan of a Derren Brown it seems
well, he was still on my brain from the previous example
but i have studied his videos a lot, just to see what tidbits of the mundane approach I've missed. He's better with the mundane approach than I was. I guess to stick with the chess analogies, he's a better 2-D chess player than I am. But I play chess 3-D, which by his uh... paradigm, would be massively cheating reality hehe.
Thanks! I'll read that.
it's blessedly short too
no longer than my posts in this thread hehe.
I've noticed that if you believe something works or is true, it starts affecting our reality one way or another.
also, I think, based on my experience within the church when i was aligned with that paradigm... it seems that the effect is amplified in larger groups.
One very interesting thing I noticed is that around year 2000 I was developing story and character ideas. I put lots of thought and emotion into the process and really delved deep into imagining what the character must feel in the situations I put them into. Fast forward 15 years and I noticed that a lot of those ideas started happening to me personally. One of the characters lived in another country, in a very specific city and was doing specific things. Around 2015 I had almost by accident moved to that same country and the same exact city, was doing very similar things (and also identical things), none of which I did back in 2000. Fast forward a few years till last year and most of the stuf in the other stories I put most emotion and thought to started manifesting themselves in my own life. I think you're doing magick every time you focus intently on art and put lots of emotion to it.
So if you want to experience something in your life, write a story. Put lots of time an energy into imagining really vividly long periods of time what your main character sees and feels and experiences in your story. What does your main character do? Why? Etc... Put maybe 20-30 hours of that kind of work to one story. Then wait for couple of years and see what happens. I hope Stephen King is alright...
A new ager or wiccan would call that the "law of attraction" hehe.
I think it's a little more nuanced and complicated than that. But there's definitely something to it.
Which of course means it could be intentionally exploited.
Which in turn means that new agers & wiccans do have some magical agency
even if I'm not a huge fan of how they discuss "spells", or regard religious objects like herbs/crystals. There's an element of "if they think it works, it kinda could". Even if I (completely subjectively!) feel like I've a more refined approach. Who doesn't like their own approach though? If someone didn't like it, they'd use something else eh?
Kath wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 4:59 pm
I've heard a warning that if you ask universe to teach you something to a high level of skill, you'll get into situations you won't enjoy at all.
I just want to quote that again for emphasis. I'm intimately, INTIMATELY, familiar with that.
What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.
Or hurts like hell...
In some cases, literally maims you even.
I think (totally opinion here) that it does inevitably make you stronger, so long as you approach everything with sufficient uh... with the right frame of mind.
Mind you, it could leave your body broken hehe. But YOU end up stronger
I have an experience which I can't type out some of the finer details of. Where I was intimately familiarized with the visceral experience of the 'moment of death'. Overall, If I put the inconvenience of a busted up hip, and the experience/knowledge gained, both on a scale, the busted up hip seems heavier. But from a purely spiritual-path-oriented standpoint, it was informative. I'm left thinking "there has to be an easier way to learn shit like this" but I can't think of one off the top of my head
I'd have to give the experience about a 2-star rating, maybe 2.5 tops.
And yeah, I'm ok. I exceeded every realistic expectation, by a very wide margin, and every stage of recovery. I did a few deep knee bends at about 5 months, to show my primary surgeon my recovery progress. He looked at me like I grew a third head, and then told me "don't mess it up, it took 12 hours to put those bones back together". But even with super-recovery, I'm left in "sometimes a cane would be nice" territory. More a persistent annoyance than anything truly frightful.