I am tired of vampires.

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Original post: Hairetikos
EtuMalku;362093 wrote:Then accept my apology, I may have overreached, sorry.
Insinuating that there are 'True' vampires should not come across as a form of elitism, it is rather along the same lines as saying someone has truly broken their arm instead of 'I think I broke my arm' . . . it's not elitist, it is the pure form of being vampiric.
Those that practice vampirism, or other psychic energy manipulation, that still enjoy a human soul are not what I refer to as 'True vampires' . . . nothing to get disgruntled about.
Don't worry, you can't so easily disrupt my gruntle. But on a serious note, I think considering oneself a vampire involves "doing" rather than "being." We talk of "being" a vampire, but what we usually mean is that we're "doing" certain things that warrant this title. And I think that's where you and I disagree. You say that the qualifier is not any sort of action, but a state of being. But isn't "being" really just a form of "doing?" In any case, this gives rise to many valid questions about the soul, which cannot be easily explained since the soul apparently can't be measured or identified in any way that's going to satisfy everyone asking the questions. We're getting into territory here that is vague and nebulous. I try to focus on the "doing" or the actions involved to avoid such vagueness, in order to simplify matters a bit.

Thank you for the stimulating conversation! I look forward to your reply.

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Original post: EtuMalku

What you say is just fine. Yes, my point would include a huge discussion concerning the soul, and we both know where that would end up, LOL!
Qabalah's Qliphothic vampirism and the type of vampirism that Michael Ford & Thomas Karlsson refer to are very good examples of what 'you' are getting at.

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Original post: Venefica
I disagree with the term "true vampires" you used, since it insinuates superiority of one school of thought over another, whereas I consider their truthfulness to be relative.
I can not agree more with this. For me I do not disagree with Etu's concept but with his separation of his type of vampirism as true. I understand that it is not means as elitist, but that is how it come across, it also come across as dismissing towards those that are vampires of different beliefs, practice and kind.
I too can accept this, at least in theory. But we still have to consider that we're in human vehicles and subject, to some extent, to human limitations, regardless of our spiritual identity. That spiritual identity may endow us with specific traits or talents... I think you're correct in that respect. But they must still be expressed in a humanly fashion.
As a Transhumanist I aspire to break those human limitations. :D But yes I agree with you. There are for example pepole that have vivid memories of having been animals in former lives. Some of them can be said to have an animal soul, but their body is still human and have human needs. The same one can say to have a vampire soul, but one still have to live in this world with a human body.
Insinuating that there are 'True' vampires should not come across as a form of elitism, it is rather along the same lines as saying someone has truly broken their arm instead of 'I think I broke my arm' . . . it's not elitist, it is the pure form of being vampiric.
Those that practice vampirism, or other psychic energy manipulation, that still enjoy a human soul are not what I refer to as 'True vampires' . . . nothing to get disgruntled about.
You know every time only of my friends complain that their mother nag them to come visit I feel a pang of jealously. My mother and I have a great relationship but she can not really spend more than a few days with me visiting before she start to feel drained. I try to smile, say it is okey. That I want to go home, play on my play station, see my pet can and my fiancee, but in reality I am very sad becouse I want to visit longer. And my man, he get drained to, it is a huge weight on the relationship. That is a real problem for me, and I must admit I get a little bit irked when you compare it to thinking one broke one's arm compared to braking ones arm, it is marginalize a very real problem I have and that many other have to and that is hurtful.

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Original post: EtuMalku

[QUOTE=Venefica;362101]I can not agree more with this. For me I do not disagree with Etu's concept but with his separation of his type of vampirism as true. I understand that it is not means as elitist, but that is how it come across, it also come across as dismissing towards those that are vampires of different beliefs, practice and kind.



As a Transhumanist I aspire to break those human limitations. :D But yes I agree with you. There are for example pepole that have vivid memories of having been animals in former lives. Some of them can be said to have an animal soul, but their body is still human and have human needs. The same one can say to have a vampire soul, but one still have to live in this world with a human body.



You know every time only of my friends complain that their mother nag them to come visit I feel a pang of jealously. My mother and I have a great relationship but she can not really spend more than a few days with me visiting before she start to feel drained. I try to smile, say it is okey. That I want to go home, play on my play station, see my pet can and my fiancee, but in reality I am very sad becouse I want to visit longer. And my man, he get drained to, it is a huge weight on the relationship. That is a real problem for me, and I must admit I get a little bit irked when you compare it to thinking one broke one's arm compared to braking ones arm, it is marginalize a very real problem I have and that many other have to and that is hurtful.[/QUOTE]
My intention is not to 'irk' you or anyone else for that matter.
Let me explain it more like this . . . if someone were to be King and of royalty, it is quite different than someone that acts kingly!
The Asetians are descendants of Aset and are the Primordial vampires from which all true vampiric beings can be traced.
When the human soul has been replaced with the vampiric soul you are then a 'True' vampire. Otherwise, you are of human soul practicing vampirism or practicing energy manipulation.

it is obvious we both have different views and descriptions of what vampires are.
Can't we just realize this and call it a day? I'd rather not have to argue my viewpoint with you every time I comment on this forum.

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Original post: Hairetikos
EtuMalku;362105 wrote:if someone were to be King and of royalty, it is quite different than someone that acts kingly!
I understand the point you're making, but here again we're focusing on titles only. The reality of it is that royalty is no different than the common man. Stripped of all that we have, we're all essentially the same. A king is not any different type of being than a citizen, they're both humans. Only titles separate them. Again, I say it's one's actions that define them. But we're repeating ourselves now.
EtuMalku;362105 wrote:it is obvious we both have different views and descriptions of what vampires are.
Can't we just realize this and call it a day? I'd rather not have to argue my viewpoint with you every time I comment on this forum.
This is basically my sentiment also. I see no room for authority in occultism, so I'm fine with agreeing to disagree. Those who can't just do this tend to become belligerent, which I cannot respect.

Good night.

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Original post: Venefica
I understand the point you're making, but here again we're focusing on titles only. The reality of it is that royalty is no different than the common man. Stripped of all that we have, we're all essentially the same. A king is not any different type of being than a citizen, they're both humans. Only titles separate them. Again, I say it's one's actions that define them. But we're repeating ourselves now.
And remember most kings and royal lines was once commoners. Often they can be traced back to a commander or somone rich enough to support the nation through difficult times. As for acting knightly that have little to do with royalty. I live in a nation that have a royal family, and they are like everyone else save that their job is to represent Norway in various functions, and the Crown Princess she is a former model and party girl from a small town, a single mother that the Crown Prince just happened to fall in love with. The Queen was a rich merchant's daughter that married the future King, and one of the Princesses, well she runs an occult school and is an occultist, and none of them bleed any different color than any of the rest of us. Royalty is a place in society, not an inborn quality.
it is obvious we both have different views and descriptions of what vampires are.
Can't we just realize this and call it a day? I'd rather not have to argue my viewpoint with you every time I comment on this forum.
I can agree to disagree, but I will aways post my opinions when I see you talk about "true" vampires to those that ask about vampirism on this forum. I do not like elitism in the occult, nor do I like elitist ideas to be presented as the only, unchallenged fact.

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Original post: AJAtheMetastasis

Vampire


Vampires are mythological or folkloric revenants who subsist by feeding on the blood of the living. In folkloric tales, the undead vampires often visited loved ones and caused mischief or deaths in the neighbourhoods they inhabited when they were alive. They wore shrouds and were often described as bloated and of ruddy or dark countenance, markedly different from today's gaunt, pale vampire which dates from the early Nineteenth Century. Although vampiric entities have been recorded in most cultures, the term vampire was not popularised until the early 18th century, after an influx of vampire superstition into Western Europe from areas where vampire legends were frequent, such as the Balkans and Eastern Europe,[1] although local variants were also known by different names, such as vrykolakas in Greece and strigoi in Romania. This increased level of vampire superstition in Europe led to what can only be called mass hysteria and in some cases resulted in corpses actually being staked and people being accused of vampirism.
In modern times, however, the vampire is generally held to be a fictitious entity, although belief in similar vampiric creatures such as the chupacabra still persists in some cultures. Early folkloric belief in vampires has been ascribed to the ignorance of the body's process of decomposition after death and how people in pre-industrial societies tried to rationalise this, creating the figure of the vampire to explain the mysteries of death. Porphyria was also linked with legends of vampirism in 1985 and received much media exposure, but has since been largely discredited.
The charismatic and sophisticated vampire of modern fiction was born in 1819 with the publication of The Vampyre by John Polidori; the story was highly successful and arguably the most influential vampire work of the early 19th century.[2] However, it is Bram Stoker's 1897 novel Dracula which is remembered as the quintessential vampire novel and provided the basis of the modern vampire legend. The success of this book spawned a distinctive vampire genre, still popular in the 21st century, with books, films, and television shows. The vampire has since become a dominant figure in the horror genre.

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Original post: AJAtheMetastasis

Etymology

The Oxford English Dictionary dates the first appearance of the word vampire in English from 1734, in a travelogue titled Travels of Three English Gentlemen published in the Harleian Miscellany in 1745.[3][4] Vampires had already been discussed in German literature.[5] After Austria gained control of northern Serbia and Oltenia in 1718, officials noted the local practice of exhuming bodies and "killing vampires".[5] These reports, prepared between 1725 and 1732, received widespread publicity.[5]
The English term was derived (possibly via French vampyre) from the German Vampir, in turn thought to be derived in the early 18th century from the Serbian вампир/vampir.[6][7][8][9][10] The Serbian form has parallels in virtually all Slavic languages: Bulgarian вампир (vampir), Czech and Slovak upír, Polish wąpierz, and (perhaps East Slavic-influenced) upiór, Russian упырь (upyr'), Belarusian упыр (upyr), Ukrainian упирь (upir'), from Old Russian упирь (upir'). (Note that many of these languages have also borrowed forms such as "vampir/wampir" subsequently from the West; these are distinct from the original local words for the creature.) The exact etymology is unclear.[11] Among the proposed proto-Slavic forms are *ǫpyrь and *ǫpirь.[12] Like its possible cognate that means "bat" (Czech netopýr, Slovak netopier, Polish nietoperz, Russian нетопырь / netopyr' - a species of bat), the Slavic word might contain a Proto-Indo-European root for "to fly".[12] An older theory is that the Slavic languages have borrowed the word from a Turkic term for "witch" (e.g., Tatar ubyr).[12][13]
The first recorded use of the Old Russian form Упирь (Upir') is commonly believed to be in a document dated 6555 (1047 AD).[14] It is a colophon in a manuscript of the Book of Psalms written by a priest who transcribed the book from Glagolitic into Cyrillic for the Novgorodian Prince Vladimir Yaroslavovich.[15] The priest writes that his name is "Upir' Likhyi " (Упирь Лихый), which means something like "Wicked Vampire" or "Foul Vampire".[16] This apparently strange name has been cited as an example both of surviving paganism and of the use of nicknames as personal names.[17]
Another early use of the Old Russian word is in the anti-pagan treatise "Word of Saint Grigoriy", dated variously to the 11thâ??13th centuries, where pagan worship of upyri is reported.[18][19]

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Original post: AJAtheMetastasis

Folk beliefs

The notion of vampirism has existed for millennia; cultures such as the Mesopotamians, Hebrews, Ancient Greeks, and Romans had tales of demons and spirits which are considered precursors to modern vampires. However, despite the occurrence of vampire-like creatures in these ancient civilizations, the folklore for the entity we know today as the vampire originates almost exclusively from early 18th century Southeastern Europe,[1] when verbal traditions of many ethnic groups of the region were recorded and published. In most cases, vampires are revenants of evil beings, suicide victims, or witches, but they can also be created by a malevolent spirit possessing a corpse or by being bitten by a vampire. Belief in such legends became so pervasive that in some areas it caused mass hysteria and even public executions of people believed to be vampires.[20]

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Original post: AJAtheMetastasis

Ancient beliefs

Image Image
Lilith (1892), by John Collier.


Tales of supernatural beings consuming the blood or flesh of the living have been found in nearly every culture around the world for many centuries.[53] Today we would associate these entities with vampires, but in ancient times, the term vampire did not exist; blood drinking and similar activities were attributed to demons or spirits who would eat flesh and drink blood; even the devil was considered synonymous with the vampire.[54] Almost every nation has associated blood drinking with some kind of revenant or demon, or in some cases a deity. In India, for example, tales of vetalas, ghoul-like beings that inhabit corpses, have been compiled in the Baital Pachisi; a prominent story in the Kathasaritsagara tells of King Vikramāditya and his nightly quests to capture an elusive one.[55] Pishacha, the returned spirits of evil-doers or those who died insane, also bear vampiric attributes.[56] The Ancient Indian goddess Kali, with fangs and a garland of corpses or skulls, was also intimately linked with the drinking of blood.[57] In Egypt, the goddess Sekhmet drank blood.
The Persians were one of the first civilizations to have tales of blood-drinking demons: creatures attempting to drink blood from men were depicted on excavated pottery shards.[58] Ancient Babylonia had tales of the mythical Lilitu,[59] synonymous with and giving rise to Lilith (Hebrew לילית) and her daughters the Lilu from Hebrew demonology. Lilitu was considered a demon and was often depicted as subsisting on the blood of babies. However, the Jewish counterparts were said to feast on both men and women, as well as newborns.[59]
Ancient Greek mythology described the Empusa,[60] Lamia,[61] and striges (the strix of Ancient Roman mythology). Over time the first two terms became general words to describe witches and demons respectively. Empusa was the daughter of the goddess Hecate and was described as a demonic, bronze-footed creature. She feasted on blood by transforming into a young woman and seduced men as they slept before drinking their blood.[60] Lamia preyed on young children in their beds at night, sucking their blood.[61] Like Lamia, the striges, feasted on children, but also preyed on young men. They were described as having the bodies of crows or birds in general, and were later incorporated into Roman mythology as strix, a kind of nocturnal bird that fed on human flesh and blood.[62]

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Original post: AJAtheMetastasis

Medieval and later European folklore

Main article: Vampire folklore by region
Image Image
Le Vampire,
lithograph by R. de Moraine
Les Tribunaux secrets (1864)


Many of the myths surrounding vampires originated during the medieval period. The 12th century English historians and chroniclers Walter Map and William of Newburgh recorded accounts of revenants,[20][63] though records in English legends of vampiric beings after this date are scant.[64] These tales are similar to the later folklore widely reported from Eastern Europe in the 18th century and were the basis of the vampire legend that later entered Germany and England, where they were subsequently embellished and popularised.
During the 18th century, there was a frenzy of vampire sightings in Eastern Europe, with frequent stakings and grave diggings to identify and kill the potential revenants; even government officials engaged in the hunting and staking of vampires.[65] Despite being called the Age of Enlightenment, during which most folkloric legends were quelled, the belief in vampires increased dramatically, resulting in a mass hysteria throughout most of Europe.[20] The panic began with an outbreak of alleged vampire attacks in East Prussia in 1721 and in the Habsburg Monarchy from 1725 to 1734, which spread to other localities. Two famous vampire cases, the first to be officially recorded, involved the corpses of Peter Plogojowitz and Arnold Paole from Serbia. Plogojowitz was reported to have died at the age of 62, but allegedly returned after his death asking his son for food. When the son refused, he was found dead the following day. Plogojowitz supposedly returned and attacked some neighbours who died from loss of blood.[65] In the second case, Paole, an ex-soldier turned farmer who allegedly was attacked by a vampire years before, died while haying. After his death, people began to die in the surrounding area and it was widely believed that Paole had returned to prey on the neighbours.[66]
The two incidents were well-documented: government officials examined the bodies, wrote case reports, and published books throughout Europe.[66] The hysteria, commonly referred to as the "18th-Century Vampire Controversy", raged for a generation. The problem was exacerbated by rural epidemics of so-claimed vampire attacks, undoubtedly caused by the higher amount of superstition that was present in village communities, with locals digging up bodies and in some cases, staking them. Although many scholars reported during this period that vampires did not exist, and attributed reports to premature burial or rabies, superstitious belief increased. Dom Augustine Calmet, a well-respected French theologian and scholar, put together a comprehensive treatise in 1746, which was ambiguous concerning the existence of vampires. Calmet amassed reports of vampire incidents; numerous readers, including both a critical Voltaire and supportive demonologists, interpreted the treatise as claiming that vampires existed.[67] In his Philosophical Dictionary, Voltaire wrote:[68]
[INDENT]These vampires were corpses, who went out of their graves at night to suck the blood of the living, either at their throats or stomachs, after which they returned to their cemeteries. The persons so sucked waned, grew pale, and fell into consumption; while the sucking corpses grew fat, got rosy, and enjoyed an excellent appetite. It was in Poland, Hungary, Silesia, Moravia, Austria, and Lorraine, that the dead made this good cheer.

[/INDENT]The controversy only ceased when Empress Maria Theresa of Austria sent her personal physician, Gerhard van Swieten, to investigate the claims of vampiric entities. He concluded that vampires did not exist and the Empress passed laws prohibiting the opening of graves and desecration of bodies, sounding the end of the vampire epidemics. Despite this condemnation, the vampire lived on in artistic works and in local superstition.[67]

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Original post: AJAtheMetastasis

Non-European beliefs


Africa

Various regions of Africa have folkloric tales of beings with vampiric abilities: in West Africa the Ashanti people tell of the iron-toothed and tree-dwelling asanbosam,[69] and the Ewe people of the adze, which can take the form of a firefly and hunts children.[70] The eastern Cape region has the impundulu, which can take the form of a large taloned bird and can summon thunder and lightning, and the Betsileo people of Madagascar tell of the ramanga, an outlaw or living vampire who drinks the blood and eats the nail clippings of nobles.[71]

The Americas

The Loogaroo is an example of how a vampire belief can result from a combination of beliefs, here a mixture of French and African Vodu or voodoo. The term Loogaroo possibly comes from the French loup-garou (meaning 'werewolf') and is common in the culture of Mauritius. However, the stories of the Loogaroo are widespread through the Caribbean Islands and Louisiana in the United States.[72] Similar female monsters are the Soucouyant of Trinidad, and the Tunda and Patasola of Colombian folklore, while the Mapuche of southern Chile have the bloodsucking snake known as the Peuchen.[73] Aloe vera hung backwards behind or near a door was thought to ward off vampiric beings in South American superstition.[30] Aztec mythology described tales of the Cihuateteo, skeletal-faced spirits of those who died in childbirth who stole children and entered into sexual liaisons with the living, driving them mad.[24]
During the late 18th and 19th centuries the belief in vampires was widespread in parts of New England, particularly in Rhode Island and Eastern Connecticut. There are many documented cases of families disinterring loved ones and removing their hearts in the belief that the deceased was a vampire who was responsible for sickness and death in the family, although the term "vampire" was never actually used to describe the deceased. The deadly disease tuberculosis, or "consumption" as it was known at the time, was believed to be caused by nightly visitations on the part of a dead family member who had died of consumption themselves.[74] The most famous, and most recently recorded, case of suspected vampirism is that of nineteen-year-old Mercy Brown, who died in Exeter, Rhode Island in 1892. Her father, assisted by the family physician, removed her from her tomb two months after her death and her heart was cut out and burnt to ashes.[75]

Asia

Rooted in older folklore, the modern belief in vampires spread throughout Asia with tales of ghoulish entities from the mainland, to vampiric beings from the islands of Southeast Asia. India also developed other vampiric legends. The Bhūta or Prét is the soul of a man who died an untimely death. It wanders around animating dead bodies at night, attacking the living much like a ghoul.[76] In northern India, there is the BrahmarākŞhasa, a vampire-like creature with a head encircled by intestines and a skull from which it drank blood. Although vampires have appeared in Japanese Cinema since the late 1950s, the folklore behind it was western in origin.[77] However, the Nukekubi is a being whose head and neck detach from its body to fly about seeking human prey at night.[78]
Legends of female vampire-like beings who can detach parts of their upper body also occur in the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia. There are two main vampire-like creatures in the Philippines: the Tagalog mandurugo ("blood-sucker") and the Visayan manananggal ("self-segmenter"). The mandurugo is a variety of the aswang that takes the form of an attractive girl by day, and develops wings and a long, hollow, thread-like tongue by night. The tongue is used to suck up blood from a sleeping victim. The manananggal is described as being an older, beautiful woman capable of severing its upper torso in order to fly into the night with huge bat-like wings and prey on unsuspecting, sleeping pregnant women in their homes. They use an elongated proboscis-like tongue to suck fetuses off these pregnant women. They also prefer to eat entrails (specifically the heart and the liver) and the phlegm of sick people.[79]
The Malaysian Penanggalan may be either a beautiful old or young woman who obtained her beauty through the active use of black magic or other unnatural means, and is most commonly described in local folklores to be dark or demonic in nature. She is able to detach her fanged head which flies around in the night looking for blood, typically from pregnant women.[80] Malaysians would hang jeruju (thistles) around the doors and windows of houses, hoping the Penanggalan would not enter for fear of catching its intestines on the thorns.[81] The Leyak is a similar being from Balinese folklore.[82] A Kuntilanak or Matianak in Indonesia,[83] or Pontianak or Langsuir in Malaysia,[84] is a woman who died during childbirth and became undead, seeking revenge and terrorizing villages. She appeared as an attractive woman with long black hair that covered a hole in the back of her neck, which she sucked the blood of children with. Filling the hole with her hair would drive her off. Corpses had their mouths filled with glass beads, eggs under each armpit, and needles in their palms to prevent them from becoming langsuir.[85]
Jiang Shi (traditional Chinese: 僵屍 or 殭屍; simplified Chinese: 僵尸; pinyin: jiāngshī; literally "stiff corpse"), sometimes called "Chinese vampires" by Westerners, are reanimated corpses that hop around, killing living creatures to absorb life essence (qì) from their victims. They are said to be created when a person's soul (魄 pò) fails to leave the deceased's body.[86] One unusual feature of this vampire is its greenish-white furry skin, perhaps derived from fungus or mould growing on corpses.[87]

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Original post: AJAtheMetastasis

Modern beliefs

In modern fiction, the vampire tends to be depicted as a suave, charismatic villain.[22] Despite the general disbelief in vampiric entities, occasional sightings of vampires are reported. Indeed, vampire hunting societies still exist, although they are largely formed for social reasons.[20] Allegations of vampire attacks swept through the African country of Malawi during late 2002 and early 2003, with mobs stoning one individual to death and attacking at least four others, including Governor Eric Chiwaya, based on the belief that the government was colluding with vampires.[88]
In early 1970 local press spread rumors that a vampire haunted Highgate Cemetery in London. Amateur vampire hunters flocked in large numbers to the cemetery. Several books have been written about the case, notably by Sean Manchester, a local man who was among the first to suggest the existence of the "Highgate Vampire" and who later claimed to have exorcised and destroyed a whole nest of vampires in the area.[89] In January 2005, rumours circulated that an attacker had bitten a number of people in Birmingham, England, fuelling concerns about a vampire roaming the streets. However, local police stated that no such crime had been reported and that the case appears to be an urban legend.[90]
In one of the more notable cases of vampiric entities in the modern age, the chupacabra ("goat-sucker") of Puerto Rico and Mexico is said to be a creature that feeds upon the flesh or drinks the blood of domesticated animals, leading some to consider it a kind of vampire. The "chupacabra hysteria" was frequently associated with deep economic and political crises, particularly during the mid-1990s.[91]
In Europe, where much of the vampire folklore originates, the vampire is considered a fictitious being, although many communities have embraced the revenant for economic purposes. In some cases, especially in small localities, vampire superstition is still rampant and sightings or claims of vampire attacks occur frequently. In Romania during February 2004, several relatives of Toma Petre feared that he had become a vampire. They dug up his corpse, tore out his heart, burned it, and mixed the ashes with water in order to drink it.[92]
Vampirism also represents a relevant part of modern day's occultist movements. The mythos of the vampire, his magickal qualities, allure, and predatory archetype express a strong symbolism that can be used in ritual, energy work, and magick, and can even be adopted as a spiritual system. The vampire has been part of the occult society in Europe for centuries and has spread into the American sub-culture as well for more than a decade, being strongly influenced by and mixed with the neo gothic aesthetics.[93]

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Original post: AJAtheMetastasis

Origins of vampire beliefs

Main article: Origins of vampire beliefs‎

Pathology

Belief in vampires has been described as the result of people of pre-industrial societies attempting to explain the process of death and decomposition.[94]
People sometimes suspected vampirism when a cadaver did not look as they thought a normal corpse should when disinterred. However, rates of decomposition vary depending on temperature and soil composition, and many of the signs are little known. This has led vampire hunters to mistakenly conclude that a dead body had not decomposed at all, or, ironically, to interpret signs of decomposition as signs of continued life.[95][96] Corpses swell as gases from decomposition accumulate in the torso and the increased pressure forces blood to ooze from the nose and mouth. This causes the body to look "plump", "well-fed", and "ruddy" â?? changes that are all the more striking if the person was pale or thin in life.[97] The exuding blood gave the impression that the corpse had recently been engaging in vampiric activity.[34] Darkening of the skin is also caused by decomposition.[98] The staking of a swollen, decomposing body could cause the body to bleed and force the accumulated gases to escape the body. This could produce a groan-like sound when the gases moved past the vocal cords, or a sound reminiscent of flatulence when they passed through the anus.[99]
After death, the skin and gums lose fluids and contract, exposing the roots of the hair, nails, and teeth, even teeth that were concealed in the jaw. This can produce the illusion that the hair, nails, and teeth have grown. At a certain stage, the nails fall off and the skin peels away, as reported in the Plogojowitz caseâ??the dermis and nail beds emerging underneath were interpreted as "new skin" and "new nails".[99]
In some cases in which people reported sounds emanating from a specific coffin, it was later dug up and fingernail marks were discovered on the inside from the victim trying to escape. In other cases the person would hit their heads, noses or faces and it would appear that they had been "feeding".[100] A problem with this theory is the question of how people presumably buried alive managed to stay alive for any extended period without food, water or fresh air. An alternate explanation for noise is the bubbling of escaping gases from natural decomposition of bodies.[101] Another likely cause of disordered tombs is grave robbing.[102]

Disease

Folkloric vampirism has been associated with a series of deaths due to unidentifiable or mysterious illnesses, usually within the same family or the same small community.[74] Tuberculosis and the pneumonic form of bubonic plague were associated with breakdown of lung tissue which would cause blood to appear at the lips.[103] Dr Juan Gómez-Alonso, a neurologist at Xeral Hospital in Vigo, Spain, examined the possibility of a link with rabies in the journal Neurology. The susceptibility to garlic and light could be due to rabies-induced hypersensitivity. The disease can also affect portions of the brain that could lead to disturbance of normal sleep patterns (thus becoming nocturnal) and hypersexuality. Legend once said a man was not rabid if he could look at his own reflection (an allusion to the legend that vampires have no reflection). Wolves and bats, which are often associated with vampires, can be carriers of rabies. The disease can also lead to a drive to bite others and to a bloody frothing at the mouth.[104][105]

Porphyria

In 1985 biochemist David Dolphin proposed a link between the rare blood disorder porphyria and vampire folklore. Noting that the condition is treated by intravenous haem, he suggested that the consumption of large amounts of blood may result in haem being transported somehow across the stomach wall and into the bloodstream. Thus vampires were merely sufferers of porphyria seeking to replace haem and alleviate their symptoms.[106] The theory has been rebuffed medically, as suggestions that sufferers crave the haem in human blood or that the consumption of blood might ease the symptoms are based on a misunderstanding of the disease. Furthermore, Dolphin was noted to have confused fictional bloodsucking vampires with those of folklore, many of whom were not noted to drink blood.[107] Similarly, a parallel is made between sensitivity to sunlight by sufferers, yet this was associated with fictional and not folkloric vampires. Dolphin did not publish his work more widely.[108] Despite being dismissed by experts, the theory gained media attention.[109] and entered popular modern folklore.[110]

Psychopathology

See also: Clinical vampirism A number of murderers have performed seemingly vampiric rituals upon their victims. Serial killers Peter Kurten and Richard Trenton Chase were both called "vampires" in the tabloids after they were discovered drinking the blood of the people they murdered. Similarly, in 1932, an unsolved murder case in Stockholm, Sweden was nicknamed the "Vampire murder", due to the circumstances of the victimâ??s death.[111] The late 16th-century Hungarian countess and mass murderer Elizabeth Báthory became particularly infamous in later centuries' works, which depicted her bathing in her victims' blood in order to retain beauty or youth.[112]
Vampire lifestyle is a term for a contemporary subculture of people, largely within the Goth subculture, who consume the blood of others as a pastime; drawing from the rich recent history of popular culture related to cult symbolism, horror films, the fiction of Anne Rice, and the styles of Victorian England.[113] Active vampirism within the vampire subculture includes both blood-related vampirism, commonly referred to as Sanguine Vampirism, and Psychic Vampirism, or 'feeding' from pranic energy. Practitioners may take on a variety of 'roles', including both "vampires" and their sources of blood or pranic energy.[114]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire

*** Personally I felt this thread needed a dose of good common-sense .... "so here it is!" *** :p

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Original post: EtuMalku

Great cut & paste job . . . unfortunately all that Montague Summer's influenced information has been beaten into the grave (pun intended). How about pasting some relevant theories from Carl Jung, Konstantinos, Blavatsky, Steiner (any Theosophical group), the Qliphothic Qabalah, the Dragon Rouge, Michael W. Ford, Michelle Belanger or of course my favorite The Asetian Bible from Luis Marques?

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Original post: AJAtheMetastasis

The real spokesperson for The Asetian Bible huh??? :p

And may haps many who are involved in this pseudo-arcane movement should base their religious history upon accurate information! :confused: Maybe starting with ancient Sumarian texts for starters???? Just a thought mind you ..... "but what do I know!" :rolleyes:

I'm just waiting to see when Lestat gets to become the next messiah! :evil:

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Original post: AJAtheMetastasis

EtuMalku I can respect the fact that you are representing a faction of the vampire belief system .... thats acceptable. But like any other organized *religion* or *cult* on this planet .... its just another form of trying to understand the great UNKNOWABLE .... and basically thats what every religion/spiritual organization/cult/sect is .... an attempt to understand something far superior to themselves. Nothing special about any of them really! :rolleyes: "But whatever floats the boat as they say!" ;)

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Original post: EtuMalku

I am not a spokesperson for the Aset Ka
Egypt / Kemet is older than Mesopotamia
'pseudo-arcane? Can you back that up with any evidence?
What's with all this hostility?
You spelled 'Sumerian' & 'pseudo' wrong by the way
Lestat is another fictional being (Ann Rice)
Obviously you excel at fiction :evil:

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Original post: AJAtheMetastasis

LOL! Hey! No need for the nastiness! If you believe in your path .... thats what counts .... far be it of me to interfere! (And thank you for catching my spelling errors.) "It happens when I type a little to fast!" Once again thank you! Interesting ... somewhere older than the cradle of western civilization??? Interesting indeed! I guess I'll throw out all those scholarly history books ..... they were all wrong!

A hint my friend .... you can usually guess the viability of a religion by how fierce its believers defend it!

A true religion stands the test of TIME ..... history has proven this time and time again.

But history has also shown that religions also die ..... just like everything else in life.

Anyway ..... good luck with your belief system and its convoluted paradigms!

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Original post: EtuMalku

[QUOTE=AJAtheMetastasis;362581]LOL! Hey! No need for the nastiness! If you believe in your path .... thats what counts .... far be it of me to interfere! (And thank you for catching my spelling errors.) "It happens when I type a little to fast!" Once again thank you! Interesting ... somewhere older than the cradle of western civilization??? Interesting indeed! I guess I'll throw out all those scholarly history books ..... they were all wrong!

A hint my friend .... you can usually guess the viability of a religion by how fierce its believers defend it!

A true religion stands the test of TIME ..... history has proven this time and time again.

But history has also shown that religions also die ..... just like everything else in life.

Anyway ..... good luck with your belief system and its convoluted paradigms![/QUOTE]
What history books are you reading? Yeah, throw them out.
You used the wrong 'to' should have been 'too'
Sumerians have the oldest documented writings / language.
I don't need hints, but thanks anyway.
The Egyptian religion lasted longer than any religion thus far . . . definitely throw those books out.
Nothing really dies in life . . . energy cannot be destroyed, it merely changes.
More books are in your future.
'convoluted paradigms' ? . . . could you elaborate on that?
May I ask what belief system you follow?

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Original post: AJAtheMetastasis

I guess I should also throw out my college education too! (Did I get that right this time around!). And what's with all this less than subtle abrasive attitude being thrown about??? You seem to be the one who is hostile here ... not I. And why the hard-core defense for the Asetian Bible ..... its just a damn book! Geez! :rolleyes:


What system do I follow ..... mmmmm .... I guess I could qualify myself as a misguided American Taoist who also practices sorcery. Nothing special. :D

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Original post: AJAtheMetastasis

EtuMalku may haps you should read the PM I sent you before you start flaming the hell out of me ... ok!!! ;)

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Original post: EtuMalku

[QUOTE=AJAtheMetastasis;362588]I guess I should also throw out my college education too! (Did I get that right this time around!). And what's with all this less than subtle abrasive attitude being thrown about??? You seem to be the one who is hostile here ... not I. And why the hard-core defense for the Asetian Bible ..... its just a damn book! Geez! :rolleyes:


What system do I follow ..... mmmmm .... I guess I could qualify myself as a misguided American Taoist who also practices sorcery. Nothing special. :D[/QUOTE]
I'm 47, I don't even remember college at this point
The attitude comes from dozens of people on this forum that seem to have a problem with Asetians and my understandings of vampirism.
I am not being hostile
YOU began by declaring your Wiki knowledge of vampirism to be the 'end all' of this discussion which insinuates the rest of us should just shut up.
i defend my beliefs, they did not come over night, I am an Asetianist and it is not some . . 'DAMN BOOK'
I find your words to be aggressive, degrading, ostracizing and not the words that Lao Tzu would be supportive of.

I suppose this post was unnecessary in light of your PM . . . sorry.

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Original post: AJAtheMetastasis

Good ... I am 45 EtuMalku. And a book is just a book .... nothing more .... nothing less. At no time have I meant to insult your personal beliefs; and if I have I'm at least man enough to apologize! SORRY! .... OK. Your beliefs are your's and your's alone! Have I poked fun at the term *book* .... damn right I have! I state again .... a book is just a damn f*cking book! :rolleyes: Its the belief invested that counts .... not the friggin' written word!

God I hate religions! :rolleyes:

Followers are so inflexible!

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Original post: EtuMalku

[QUOTE=AJAtheMetastasis;362602]Good ... I am 45 EtuMalku. And a book is just a book .... nothing more .... nothing less. At no time have I meant to insult your personal beliefs; and if I have I'm at least man enough to apologize! SORRY! .... OK. Your beliefs are your's and your's alone! Have I poked fun at the term *book* .... damn right I have! I state again .... a book is just a damn f*cking book! :rolleyes: Its the belief invested that counts .... not the friggin' written word!

God I hate religions! :rolleyes:

Followers are so inflexible![/QUOTE]Check you PM . . . and some books are tomes. The written word can be most powerful and most magickal.
I have spent plenty of time meditating on the verses of the Tao Te Ching

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