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Are Rights an activation of Authority arising from Identity?

So what is your Identity?

OneOfFourth wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 7:08 pm
So are the Rights proof of God's existence

Logic is wonderful but all proofs start from axioms/assumptions.

On the other hand: What does the person that has experienced pure consciousness say?









- I am!





This statement is not qualified by context or beliefs or universes.

Awareness of existence beyond universes could be translated into religious contexts as awareness of God

So what are you trying to say specificly?

If you like to think in terms of the God concept then it may be that the experience of pure consciousness is sufficient proof of godness - not that the experiencer has any need of proof.

OneOfFourth wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 6:56 pm Have you considered the possibility that almost all your spiritual abilities are the result of your personal interaction with spirits, whether you're aware of it or not? That's what it looks like to me at the moment for most of the effects I've observed so far. I could be wrong, but so far my experiments point to that direction and I haven't received any good evidence to believe otherwise. Then again I don't have hard proof either way on some cases, so I still need to experiment, learn and analyse what's really going on in all kinds of cases.

I would argue that the bulk of "useful" information, skill, technique, perspective, etc. in my path has come from interacting with other entities. So, that much we agree on.

But certainly not ALL of it. Also, in many cases, the entity was not deliberately communicating anything, but rather I was learning by observation, sometimes in ways which were not desirable to the entity, and/or by way of a degree of mental intrusion (by that i mean myself mentally intruding on the entity).

That said, by far the largest portion of what I know now, has come from a specific entity by way of her directly & intentionally teaching me.

To me it looks awfully lot like when you decide to learn some new spiritual ability, you "flex your mental/spiritual muscles" to get mentally into shape of getting the results you want to see. It's not always about a simple epiphany to learn the ability, especially when we're talking about spiritual senses of any kind. With senses you need to receive input from outside sources/world so your mind needs to be prepared to take in that information somehow. For this to happen, you have to slowly but surely build an "interface" for it. This is where you train countless of hours. Every time you train, you slowly mould your mind to a new shape, which eventually acts as an interface so a spirit will be able to "plug in" to it so it can start sending you sensory input in ways you wish to receive them.

This starts with a description which sounds familiar to me and my practices, but then at the part which i marked in italics, it suddenly presumes a method or mechanism which I don't frequently use.

I don't quite follow the part of that which I quoted in italics. I mean, I understand it, and I think it can & does sometimes function that way, but I wouldn't call that the primary modus operandi. Or at least not my primary modus operandi.

I think where we differ in viewpoint on that, is that I consider people to also be entities, myself included. I don't necessarily need an "invisible friend" to show me the invisible world, or to connect me with actions within such a layer of reality.
I feel I have agency of my own in that regard.

Western esotericism tends to lean into the idea of people being pretty helpless but for the intercession of entities. That's one of the main things I view differently. I rather enjoy entity interaction, but I don't lean heavily into solicitation of spirits as agents of magical practice.

There are more entities I could teach something to, than entities I could learn something from. Which may sound like egotism, but it's just a rather clinical observation. I am very focused on the ones I could learn something from, and not particularly wrapped up in the mind-space of dwelling on how accomplished I feel. Quite the opposite, I think focusing on feelings of grandeur is the rather immediate destruction of one's continued growth. I stay focused on what I don't know yet, and hungry.

One possibility regarding the issue of physically manifest magical effects, is just that due to being incarnate in a physical body, which has an easy route to interact with physical reality, the capability to do so by non-physical means may just be horribly atrophied. It's possible for a muscle to become so atrophied that you can't even consciously contract it, so that makes exercise which would build strength rather difficult. It's either that, or a fundamental understanding of how to effect physical effects, which I'm missing. If it's the latter, then an epiphany would act as a turnkey to physically manifest magical capabilities. Either way, I don't consider it as something which is impossible to learn to do, directly, rather than through an entity.

But... If we're not talking about spiritual sensory abilities, but affecting environments/others in real ways, then you don't usually need to do any of the above work. You simply need to realise that all the effects have always been done by spirits anyway, so you can simply accept that and learn to communicate with them efficiently. Then you can create all kinds of real effects into the physical world and other people, quickly and easily

.

But I "am" a spirit, and I want to do it. myself.

It's interesting that you grouped having influence on the physical reality, and having influence on other minds, together here.

I was once socially awkward and had a large amount of social anxiety, and uncontrolled empathy mixed with a poor understanding of others. I set myself to correcting that, and I did. To an extreme degree. Obviously in the realm of human interaction there's a lot which can be done to improve in areas like this which don't lean on spiritual capacities. But I eventually focused on spiritual capacities in my approach to the problem. Considering how oblivious I once was in such things, it's a little surprising that I took to it so easily and well. Anyway, the point is, that if the question is about the capacity to effect mental influence, I'm not exactly "in search of answers". More like I deliberately handicap myself in that area, for ethical reasons, and for existential reasons related to living as a human among humans. I certainly wouldn't solicit another entity for help in effecting mental magical influence.


And then there's physical influence... and in that field, so far I haven't even tipped over a paper cup. I mean, I was much more interested and focused on inter-mind effects. Fair enough. And I don't really consider physical effects to be vital to my path. But still, my magical capacity seems very lopsided.

The closest I come to physical magical effects is that if mind is contorted in various ways, it can unlock the 'maximum potential' of a physical body. Which can seem impressive. But it's more a mind-working with a physical effect. Or i could be a "whisperer" to animals, but again, that's a mind thing really. There are effects which lean more on the energy body side of things, like healing for example, I'm decent with that. Really any energy body stuff I regard as very familiar turf, as I consider mind to be inextricably entwined with energy body. But inanimate objects stump me.

I can do synchonitic effects, as well as microtelekinesis (affecting dice roll statistical probability slightly), but nothing obvious and direct (and therefore more empirical to study).

If an entity is interested in demonstrating magical interaction with inanimate objects, I'd definitely want to observe. Preferably while probing it's mind rather deeply, to make sure I'm not missing anything important.

"just ask the spirits to do it" ...ok, but why? I don't NEED any particular physical magical effect to occur exactly. I'm more interested in the topic as a gap in my spiritual capabilities. I do want to become more capable, that I'm interested in. I just don't have any particular physical magic I want done. I desire the mastery of it, and I don't get that from subcontracting the work.
Although the idea of: "just ask the spirits to do it, so you can watch them do it, and learn from it" ...I could get behind that idea. I haven't had much success with getting that. But I have not explored that possibility as thoroughly as I could.


___

information downloads... ummm, I suppose some of what I did with my mentor could be viewed in that light. Though i approached it more from the framework of tantrick working. Wherein the aspirant (myself in this case) pursues a variety of forms of co-mingling with the deity, and as a result absorbs various understandings by way of something more like osmosis than classroom teaching. I wouldn't call it a swap-out of cognitive ability though, I'd say it's much more "additive" rather than some kind of trade. But there is inevitable paradigm shift involved, and I wouldn't deny that it bears transformative qualities.

Let me ask this, when you pursue a hobby of any kind, lets say becoming more skillful at the game of ping-pong... I agree you'd train and mould your mind to a new shape which engenders you skill at the game of ping-pong, but do you think that altered state of mind is a plug-in socket for the spirit of ping-pong?

If you'd say "yes", then I'd just say we're looking at things in a similar way, though I'm not using as much of a "spirit model" styled paradigmatic lens as you. We'd both be talking about an elephant, though I'd be thinking of them as tusk-like, while you call them trunk-like.

If you'd say "no". then we have a more meaningful difference of viewpoint. In that I would think you're drawing distinctions between spiritual and mundane exertion of will, which I don't draw. We'd be talking about different animals then.

OneOfFourth wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:25 pm

Kath wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:27 pm I don't really 'summon' for entity interaction though. I just use the 'no two points are separate' principal, and adjust my focus to touch upon another being, wherever it is. Just to clarify.

Here's where I'm currently at with my scientific approach studies of the spiritual things

Physical reality has distance. Mental/spiritual realm (they might be one and the same thing) have no physical distance at all. They have mind, information and intention. So spiritual realm's distance is the "how far away this data is conceptually from that other data". Or you could be talking how different some specific moods or personas are from each other. Hence when you think about some encounter with a spirit, you're interacting with that spirit already. Your mind can leap distances and times at the "speed of thought". (Amor was right about that)

I've been saying that on OF for about 20 years myself

When you think about anything, you're automatically working in the spiritual realm, whether you want to or not. There's no way around it. Your thoughts always affect spiritual realm without exception. Thus if you think semi seriously or speak out loud about something, spirit realm reacts to it automatically. Thus you might get trouble from spirits you unintentionally attracted to yourself, because you put out your intention, or gave an "open invitation", to any spirit that's willing to deal with you in a certain way. This also works equally well for people as spirits: you can accidentally give an open invitation to another person to do something to you and they'll be able to do that easily, or even unknowingly. We're talking about permissions/contracts/rejections here. So you can give permissions or deny things from spirits, people and probably even from events. There's no difference at all what you decide to make acceptable or deny from happening. Equally well you can give those permissions/etc. to physical events in the reality/spiritual world/physical world, since it's all connected and first happening through spiritual realm anyway. Just give some idea/concept/event in your mind permission/rejection to exist and things start happening. The effects affect physical things, minds, spirits, chances, etc. That's because everything is made to happen by spirits in the spiritual realm and thus things are affected/guided in the physical realm. As far as I can tell, the spirit seem to be there for a reason: to make things happen for you.

Again, agree completely. But I'm unsure about the ending bit which I italicized. The non italic portion may as well be quoting me, for how much i agree. But the ending bit... I'm a spirit, and I act in the spiritual realm of things, is that not enough? And as for "the reason spirits exist" that leans into a 'grand plan' cosmology which I don't really ascribe to.

This paragraph looks like my thinking exactly, except with a RHP leaning, western esoteric flavored, top hat added.

You said that you don't believe in backlash Try misusing your spiritual abilities and count how many hours it takes before something nasty happens to you. Repeat the exercise a few times and observe the results. The best way and biggest no-no to do with your abilities is to violate Free Will of others, even very mildly and unnoticeably. That gives you quick results and clearest effects so you don't need to wait for long

I have. Particularly in the realm of violating free will. I didn't exactly develop expertise in mind/energy manipulation in a vacuum.
There's no universal morality & fairness police force.

Are you familiar with Kohlberg's Stages of Moral Development?
Karma, as most people regard it, is a fantasy which suits the psychological needs of people who are in stages 1-4, especially in stages 3 and 4.

Most people just want fairness to exist, want justice to exist, want to feel safe, and want to be liked and accepted. Karma is attractive to people in that mindset. Karma lets people believe that things are fair and just, without having to actually do anything for themselves. No need to be confrontational, no need to act to make things better, just let the fairness pixies sort it all out for you. I know most people (here) believe in karma like this, and I don't want to be mean, but just speaking honestly about ideas, I view it as an incredibly lazy and timid paradigm. And reduced to it's most basic parts, it is every bit as much of a "gun to head morality" as they preach as a fire & brimstone church.

"it's ok, my antagonizers will burn in hell someday" // "it's ok, my antagonizers will reap bad karma eventually"
"I have to be righteous or I will suffer bad karma" // "I have to be good and believe rightly or I will burn in hell"
it's the same bloody thing.

There are natural consequences to actions of course. If you step on a snake, you get bit by a snake. Agreed. But if you shoot a snake, you just get kinetic recoil in the firearm, and the smell of saltpeter.

I don't shoot the snake, because that would seem mean. And it is my preference to not be mean. In a nutshell, being mean is more unpleasant to my inner altruist, than it is gratifying to my inner darkness. I am happier being nice. I don't expect that everyone would feel the same way about that though, so my inner kindness understands the need to pass the torch to my inner unkindness when circumstances dictate. My light and dark are in an accord of mutual understanding on that.

If you want justice and fairness to exist, then stand tall. If you don't, your experience of justice and fairness will certainly dwindle over time ...except in so much as you can leech benefit off of the efforts of others who are standing tall. You can create justice. Or you can suckle at the teat of others who create justice. Or you can just not have justice. Civilization somewhat obscures this fundamental equation, but that is the true nature of things.

Of course that begs the question of what exactly is "just"? That's simple, whatever least makes your inner altruist frown. Pretty much anything which brings joy through empathy. Granted, in the case of standing up to injustice, it's more a matter of "the path of least frowning".

Anyway, the point is, I explored inter-mind effects at a pace which ran pretty far ahead of my moral understandings on the matter. The question of "what is possible?" precedes the question of "but do I really want to do that?". And for a person who once felt kinda powerless in the realm of interpersonal affairs... there's an obvious draw to that sense of power. Plus I put a little more emphasis on the value of permanent knowledge over transient negatives.
If there was a karmic backlash to fucking with free will, I would have cut myself on most, perhaps nearly all, of it's sharp edges.
There isn't.


Now, everything that you do, or even think about, will effect "the you-ness of you". And in some versions of "karma", that's what's really being discussed. That you lessen yourself when you act in discord to your greater self. That I agree with. But that's so far removed from the way most people regard karma that it really shouldn't even have the same label. Also, sometimes I think you need to act in discord with your greater self to explore, or even expand, the nature of self.

After getting hit several times by unnerving backlash effects, you can then try putting out intention out there that "Whenever I'm using my spiritual abilities so that I would receive a backlash, don't create that effect." Now you'll notice that your effects don't work anymore a lot of the time. You also don't receive any backlash anymore. That's a clear indication spirits using their own minds/judgement to not follow the intention you put out into the spiritual realm, because you prioritized not-getting-backlash higher than getting every job done.

But that could just as easily be sugar coating a simple lack of potency in magical practice.
Lets say you're trying to invent a light bulb. And your first few attempts fail to produce light. If you assume that means that you're better off not creating a light bulb, then you're not going to go through the 100 failed approaches to making a light bulb, which are prerequisite on the path to the 101st approach, which works.

Notice that by doing the above, you don't consciously command any spirits at all, but approach the effects more like casting a spell. Still the spirits seem to be the ones getting the job done. There's a fair amount of information about the nature of spiritual realm, intention and spirits embedded into those couple of sentences above. Read them carefully, study them and do experiments and report back here what you find out I'd love to compare results.

Well, I don't think what you're saying is impossible. I think it's entirely possible, and it does happen. I just don't think it encompasses the full field of what's going on. Or rather it is one possible way things can work, not "THE way things work".

My only problem with it, is that it has a... how to put it. A fertile soil in which to grow 'sour grapes'.
I'm assuming you're familiar with the children's parable of sour grapes. So basically, any rationale which seems capable of engendering the sour-grapes line of thinking... I regard with great care and suspicion. There are some rationales and understandings which are true, AND lend themselves to sour-grapes thinking... but I try to exercise extreme care in my thinking when I see that potential.
None of which is saying "you're wrong" (I think there is merit to what you're saying)... but more "that line of thinking is wide open to self-limiting misconceptions, so be very careful with that."

Also, fundamentally I'd rather burn my hand on a hot stove, than be prevented from exploring. If i had children, I would physically prevent them from burning their hand on a stove, but when they are old enough to understand my words, I would warn them, I would show them the effect on a piece of paper, but I would not stop them from reaching out. As it is somewhat intrinsic to their sovereign free will to be able to burn themselves, and I would put a higher value on their free will than on a few skin cells.

spirits do things: totally agree
you interact with spirits even unconsciously: totally agree
everything you do is through spirits: I disagree
Karma: I disagree a lot
you may limit your actions in the way you described: yeah... but, I'd handle that idea with latex gloves.

Kath wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:26 pm

Every time you train, you slowly mould your mind to a new shape, which eventually acts as an interface so a spirit will be able to "plug in" to it so it can start sending you sensory input in ways you wish to receive them.

I don't quite follow the part of that which I quoted in italics. I mean, I understand it, and I think it can & does sometimes function that way, but I wouldn't call that the primary modus operandi. Or at least not my primary modus operandi.

I think where we differ in viewpoint on that, is that I consider people to also be entities, myself included. I don't necessarily need an "invisible friend" to show me the invisible world, or to connect me with actions within such a layer of reality.
I feel I have agency of my own in that regard.

I tested things related to this topic by throwing out all kinds of spirits that were connected to me. Who knows why they were there. The result was that absolutely nothing worked after that. To get anything working again, I had to plug in a spirit. Now I have a nice clean base from where to build and experiment at the same time to really observe what affects which thing and why.

So my main theory is stilll the same:
To be able to manifest any kind of spiritual abilities, you need an external spirit to do that. You might be spirit,b ut you're fully bound by your flesh. Thus you need "an electric cable" (the spirit) to conduct our electricity (intention) to the sprit realm.

Extended theories:

1. The spirit connected to your mind acts as a "tentacle" that you can use to reach all kinds of things and to affect them.

2. Your own spirit/mind/soul acts like that kind of a tentacle, but in that case there must be clear "psychic chat rooms": if you have been allowed to have access into one, you can affect others minds without issues. Then I must have kicked myself out of one or several of them, without knowing I belonged to any.

3. Same as 2, but you actually need the extra spirit to enable you to have that connection to anything.

Currently my favourite theory is number 3.

Kath wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:26 pm But I "am" a spirit, and I want to do it. myself.

Bound and limited severly by the flesh. And you also have Free Will which all the "real" spirits don't have. That makes you obviously different to them and I doubt it has anything to do with the flesh itself. Humans are just different to other spiritual entities. Everything I've experienced so far points to this conclusion. All entities I have encountered have always complied when I have commanded them. That's a clear indication that they don't have Free Will. If they did, I would have to actually convince them to do what I tell them to. They could always negotiate about it etc. But they don't. Thus no Free Will.

Kath wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:26 pm It's interesting that you grouped having influence on the physical reality, and having influence on other minds, together here.

From where I'm looking at they are exactly one and the same effect and method to create. No difference of any kind anywhere. Everything has a mind of its own. You're simply talking to different parts of that mind. "That grundge between those two people.". "That anxiety in that person's mind." "Tomorrow's experience that person is going to have." "Tarot cards telling me about X." "Accident that happens or doesn't happen to that person." "That spiritual skill I want to learn." "Those acts that create backlash which I'm unaware of and want to avoid." etc.

It's all exactly the same. Universal mind = Spirits + God doing what any human being instructs them to do.

That works better if you simply tell how things are at that moment, even though they are not yet. So you blatantly tell that universal mind that "This is how it is." You announce the condition which you want to see like it was a fact already. Works also for modifying and banning any and all spirits. One idea/technique to cover them all.

Kath wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:26 pm I can do synchonitic effects, as well as microtelekinesis (affecting dice roll statistical probability slightly), but nothing obvious and direct (and therefore more empirical to study).

That microtelekinesis you're talking about (at least affecting dice rolls) IS a synchronizity effect. You're not using mental force to turn or push any physical things. You're affecting the fate itself. Or as I like to call it Divine Plan. That describes the idea much better how to view the cause & effect: a good analogy is the book which you can flip back and forth and make adjustments here and there to get the effect. Only you're not personally writing the details, but only deciding the desired outcome.

Kath wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:26 pm If an entity is interested in demonstrating magical interaction with inanimate objects, I'd definitely want to observe. Preferably while probing it's mind rather deeply, to make sure I'm not missing anything important.

With synchronizity effects the adjustments are done to the beginning of the universe, as far as my understanding goes how that things must work to actually exist in any way. So you can't observe any spirit doing their thing at your present moment. This makes it possible for the history and time effect itself over time, back and forth without a single paradox in the mix.

EDIT: I'm not actually 100% sure if the effects are done at the beginning of the universe. The other equally plausible way of adjusting things is that they happens all around the time and outside it, as required. That's my original view on the topic.

Kath wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:26 pm Let me ask this, when you pursue a hobby of any kind, lets say becoming more skillful at the game of ping-pong... I agree you'd train and mould your mind to a new shape which engenders you skill at the game of ping-pong, but do you think that altered state of mind is a plug-in socket for the spirit of ping-pong?

If you'd say "no". then we have a more meaningful difference of viewpoint. In that I would think you're drawing distinctions between spiritual and mundane exertion of will, which I don't draw. We'd be talking about different animals then.

Not really. The spirit would need to be there pushing into your subconscious as you're training. That's at least what I think how it works, with my current understanding of things.

Kath wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 9:05 pm

You said that you don't believe in backlash Try misusing your spiritual abilities and count how many hours it takes before something nasty happens to you.

I have. Particularly in the realm of violating free will. I didn't exactly develop expertise in mind/energy manipulation in a vacuum.
There's no universal morality & fairness police force.

Hmm, interesting. Usually the backlash either causes clear unpleasant effects or equally often makes things go downhill so that you're losing your options/choices/freedom of choice regarding all things in your life. Like your life quicky becomes your prison which you can only escape into freedom once you stop doing that stuff that causes the backlash in the first place. Are you currently a life situation where you don't have much personal say on important things and are being dictated all meaningful things for you?

OneOfFourth wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:41 pm I tested things related to this topic by throwing out all kinds of spirits that were connected to me. Who knows why they were there. The result was that absolutely nothing worked after that. To get anything working again, I had to plug in a spirit. Now I have a nice clean base from where to build and experiment at the same time to really observe what affects which thing and why.

Occasionally I get offered a new spirit for my system. After testing level, light-dark, and intent, if it is good, I let it in.

At that point I throw out all such spirits and test them all before allowing them back in. Typically a couple will not make the grade.

These spirits are not the same as the spirits that operate my chakras - 7, 49 and 343 of them. Those tend to be much more permanent.

Amor wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:18 pmThese spirits are not the same as the spirits that operate my chakras - 7, 49 and 343 of them. Those tend to be much more permanent.

No idea what that means, but those numbers pop up regularly everywhere when you count them up to 6 or 7 (9 counts as 6 since if you flip it upside down) :

7, 49, 343
7, 4, 9, 3, 4, 3
7, 4+3, 4+3, 9
7, 7, 7, 9

If I flip 9 upside down so it's always 6, those numbers pop up in the variations of:
7776
6667
7333 (sometimes 73333, which is basically 766)
7773

Care to share what that means in practise? Is that "routing" as in getting permissions from other people or from spirits attached to them so it's possible to interact with them and even others through them? And I'm not speaking in any kind of code language here. Just asking directly.

There are supposed to be 7 primary chakras, 49 (7x7) secondary and 343 (7x7x7) tertiary chakras.

That does not count chakras above and below the physical body

>Care to share what that means in practise?

I put my attention to the external spirits that share in the operation of my system and turf them out so that I can check they still meet my rising standard.

These are not the chakra spirits. Those are mostly permanent

The external spirits are offered to me in my travels during meditation. About half meet my standards at that time and the rest I offer to the entourage - safely distanced from the management group.

When new spirits are offered, I use that as a signal to check the standard of the current management group. That group has been stable for a month recently

This morning, out of nowhere, without a reason, I heard some extra voice in my head saying something along the lines of "You have leveled up."

I wonder if those idiots (The-37) have at some point plugged me into their counterfeit god network / The Game of theirs? I'm starting to have a hunch they really think they're worshipping a real god/God of somekind, which is actually (as I have mentioned several times already) simply a human modified regular spirit "deity", which is no different from any other spirit really.

I gave the voice a strong mouthful and I'll dismantle the whole spirit at some point after I've inspected what it's made of, just to make my point clear. Let's see if they care to build a new god for themselves.

There are 21 levels/subplanes to be managed (controlled internally) to qualify for first stage enlightenment

When each subplane is newly controlled there is usually a noticeable change in the internal culture of the human

No idea how that relates to my observations.

OneOfFourth wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:08 pm I heard some extra voice in my head saying something along the lines of "You have leveled up."

Amor wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 8:36 pm There are 21 levels/subplanes to be managed (controlled internally) to qualify for first stage enlightenment

OneOfFourth wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:08 pm This morning, out of nowhere, without a reason, I heard some extra voice in my head saying something along the lines of "You have leveled up."

I wonder if those idiots (The-37) have at some point plugged me into their counterfeit god network / The Game of theirs? I'm starting to have a hunch they really think they're worshipping a real god/God of somekind, which is actually (as I have mentioned several times already) simply a human modified regular spirit "deity", which is no different from any other spirit really.

I gave the voice a strong mouthful and I'll dismantle the whole spirit at some point after I've inspected what it's made of, just to make my point clear. Let's see if they care to build a new god for themselves.

Last night I hunted down that "circle of neon light" which looks like a neon colored lunar eclipse. It's able to change what it looks like, which is no surprise as we're talking about spirits. After grabbing hold of it, it managed to escape me twice and after that I couldn't find it anymore. It seems that it's on a run from me. I'll find it and then its gone.