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Original post: Son of a Montage

I got this on the same question:

Your consultation resulted in the following hexagram:

changing to50 32
50. The Caldron

• The Judgment
• The Image
• The Changing lines

The six lines construct the image of Ting, The Caldron; at the bottom are the legs, over them the belly, then come the ears (handles), and at the top the carrying rings. At the same time, the image suggests the idea of nourishment. The ting, cast of bronze, was the vessel that held the cooked viands in the temple of the ancestors and at banquets. The heads of the family served the food from the ting into the bowls of the guests.

The Well likewise has the secondary meaning of giving nourishment, but rather more in relation to the people. The ting, as a utensil pertaining to a refined civilisation, suggests the fostering and nourishing of able men, which redounded to the benefit of the state.

This hexagram and The Well are the only two in the I Ching that represent concrete, men-made objects. Yet here too the thought has its abstract connotation.

Sun, below, is wood and wind; Li, above, is flame. Thus together they stand for the flame kindled by wood and wind, which likewise suggests the idea of preparing food.

The Judgment

The Caldron. Supreme good fortune.
Success.

While The Well relates to the social foundation of our life, and this foundation is likened to the water that serves to nourish growing wood, the present hexagram refers to the cultural superstructure of society. Here it is the wood that serves as nourishment for the flame, the spirit. All that is visible must grow beyond itself, extend into the realm of the invisible. Thereby it receives its true consecration and clarity and takes firm root in the cosmic order.

Here we see civilisation as it reaches its culmination in religion. The ting serves in offering sacrifice to God. The highest earthly values must be sacrificed to the divine. But the truly divine does not manifest itself apart from man. The supreme revelation of God appears in prophets and holy men. To venerate them is true veneration of God. The will of God, as revealed through them, should be accepted in humility; this brings inner enlightenment and true understanding of the world, and this leads to great good fortune and success.

The Image

Fire
Wind
Fire over wood:
The image of the Caldron.
Thus the superior man consolidates his fate
By making his position correct.

The fate of fire depends on wood; as long as there is wood below, the fire burns above. It is the same in human life; there is in man likewise a fate that lends power to his life. And if he succeeds in assigning the right place to life and to fate, thus bringing the two into harmony, he puts his fate on a firm footing. These words contain hints about fostering of life as handed on by oral tradition in the secret teachings of Chinese yoga.



The changing lines

Changing line 6:

32
The Ting has rings of jade.
Great good fortune.
Nothing that would not act to further.

In the preceding line the carrying rings are described as golden, to denote their strength; here they are said to be of jade. Jade is notable for its combination of hardness with soft lustre. This counsel, in relation to the man who is open to it, works greatly to his advantage. Here the counsel is described in relation to the sage who imparts it. In imparting it, he will be mild and pure, like precious jade. Thus the work finds favor in the eyes of the Deity, who dispenses great good fortune, and becomes pleasing to men, wherefore all goes well.

Original post: Son of mr. gordo

Great stuff Montage. Good too see all the tosses so far indicate a positive atmosphere for John Kerry.

I'm going to move this thread to the divination forum.



Son of mr. gordo

Original post: Son of mr. gordo

For anyone who is going to join in on the fun and do future tosses, I've included Zhuxi's Yixue Qiming. At 9 centuries it's probably the oldest multi-line(moving line) method in current use:


1 line changes: that is your answer, take it to be the answer in preference to a contradictory judgment (in fact, the lines always take precedence over the judgment if there is contradiction).



2 lines change: uppermost line of the two is most important.



3 change: middle most important, with uppermost possibly confirming (but if they are contradictory stick with the middle one).



4 change: go over to the second hexagram and take the lowermost of the two lines that have not changed from the first hexagram.



5 change: in the second hexagram take the line that hasn't come from a change in the first hexagram.



6 change: then the first hexagram's situation is entirely past or on the brink of change, the second hexagram is more important. Take the judgment.





Son of mr. gordo

Original post: Son of mr. gordo

Just as a reminder regarding the rules for posting here at OC,

Rule 2: No Tarot Readings or Predictions - prediction requests and tarot request / predictions or spreads will be locked and deleted.


Just making sure that no personal requests for readings or divinations are requested in the future.

Original post: Horus

Today I was sitting around thinking of a new method of divination and I remembered having seen some neato trigram dice on someone elses website. Having searched for a set and not being able to find any the idea came to me to create my own... with paper ... here's how:

Materials
The trigram die GIF patterns (below)
A printer and paper
Scissors
Glue
Toothpicks and a small pin or needle

1) Print out the dice patterns below. Regular printer paper will suffice for the smaller ones, but you may want to use card stock, particularly for the larger one. I opened them using MSPaint so if you are using another application it may require adjustment to print correctly. I've provided two patterns below, one for a larger die, the other for two smaller dice.



2) Carefully cut the pattern out.

3) Fold on the creases, and glue the tabs. You may have to divide this into a couple of steps so the other parts can dry. I used a toothpick to apply the glue and press the tabs. To press the final tabs I inserted a small pin into the corner of the die... that part can be kind of tricky.

4) Wait for it to dry. This really shouldn't take too long. I dunno, I didn't have any school glue so I had to use wood glue... it was useable within 20-30 minutes.

5) Use for whatever purpose you like... I'm guessing divination. The results should be interpreted as the the line nearest the single pointed part of the triangle being the top, the one nearest the two pointed part being the bottom. So far I have only made one, and my method was to make one throw for the lower trigram and the another for the upper one. You can also do another one or two throws for changing lines... they should be interpreted as follows in the example below:


edit added labelled patterns
edit2 rearranged trigrams for neater look

Original post: Son of mr. gordo

Horus,

That's pretty neat. Am I correct in saying only two die are used? If so, moving lines wouldn't have to be taken in account.


Son of mr. gordo

Original post: Horus

Well even with two dice each one only makes up half of the hexagram, so you would have to throw 2 dice twice (or 1 four times) to get a present and future hexagram and work out the changing lines from the difference between the two.

Original post: Son of mr. gordo

Ahh, I see! Thanks Horus.

Original post: Son of mr. gordo

One of the nuances I've read while learning about the I-Ching is that one shouldn't ask the same question twice if the hexagram one receives isn't understandable. Some dexterity can be used regarding this by posing a second question rephrased. The original question I used in the John Kerry question was "Will John Kerry be elected as the new President of the U.S.?" If I received a hexagram that I wasn't sure about, or I wanted to re-verify (which I always do), I would ask a second question. This secondary question was "Will George Bush win re-election in the U.S. elections?" The primary hexagram I recieved was Cui (Gathering), and the secondary hexagram I recieved was Guan (contemplating).

http://www.eclecticenergies.com/iching/ ... lns=888976

I received two moving lines at 4 and 6. When there are two moving lines, the uppermost line is the most important. An analysis of the text for the moving line at 6:

Lamenting and sighing, floods of tears.
No blame.

I take this as being a negative answer to the question I posed. George Bush will not be re-elected. Lamenting and sighing, floods of tears. I imagine when he gives his congratulatory speech, he will shed tears, and they will be sincere.

No blame. He will not blame his loss on Dick Cheney as his running mate and will accept full responsibility for the loss in the upcoming elections.

Original post: Flowstill

I asked the I Ching, "What is the outcome of the world and the people, what is it's destiny?" This is the reading I got, which only prooves that the I Ching is by far accurate and my favorite thing to do for the past two weeks. :p Here's the link to the prediction ----> http://www.eclecticenergies.com/iching/consultation.php?lns=988788

Original post: Son of mr. gordo

Changing line 1:

Shock comes - oh, oh!
Then follow laughing words - ha, ha!
Good fortune.

The fear and trembling engendered by shock come to an individual at first in such a way that he sees himself placed at a disadvantage as against others. But this is only transitory. When the ordeal is over, he experiences relief, and thus the very terror he had to endure at the outset brings good fortune in the long run.


:lol: Heh. maybe we can get a glimpse with the presidential debates tonight.

Original post: Son of mr. gordo

Flowstill,

I'm currently researching information on the najia system - also known as the Wen Wang Ba Gua. This form of divination with the I-Ching doesn't even use the text at all! Supposedly this methodology is considered one of the most accurate divination systems in China. Shao Weihua, one of the najia experts in China and direct descendant of Shao Yong, was kicked out of a Daoist society because he revealed secrets in his books it was forbidden to share with outsiders â?? as secrets often are.

So far I only know of three books in English that describe this method. 2 of them seem very basic. The other is extremely comprehensive, however the author is very eccentric.

Original post: Flowstill

The Najia System sounds pretty neat, I'll check it out. Also with that prediction about the world an it's people, I feel there will be even more natural disasters. We will think it's the end because we have so much subconcious baggage about the apocalypse and what not, but in the end it will all clear out, people will be relieved and change into better people, respecting themselves more and the earth. It's happening in japan now, 8 typhoons this year and strong, seems nature needs to put the smack down. Also I feel next is going to be earthquakes on the west coast with volcanic eruption, Mt. St. Hellens is already getting front page news.

Original post: Procyon

59 Hwan "Dispersal"
----- Air
-----
-- --
-- -- Moon
-----
-- --

Dissipation; in the world of fools.
The kingly man stands firm, divides and rules.

1 One needs a horse in this world's mob-mellay;
2 One needs a refuge, a secure shrewd plan.
3 We must have knocks, nor mind them, in the fray.
4 Scatter the mob, then pick the choice array.
5 Command the mob, and fill their bellies, man!
6 Good end forgets how badly it began.

I 'did an i ching today' and got this,
Can somebody be so kind as to explain some of this to me, that is, if you don't mind.

Thankyou
Procyon.

Original post: Son of mr. gordo

Procyon,



The Judgment

Dispersion. Success.
The king approaches his temple.
It furthers one to cross the great water.
Perseverance furthers.


Whatever question you posed, the outcome is positive. It's a good thing you didn't post the question, because I'd have to lock it as that is considered asking for a reading. However, if there were no moving lines, then the outcome is positive. If you were using the Wen Wang Ba Gua or Lin Chi Ching methodology, the outcome could be different.

http://www.eclecticenergies.com/iching/ ... lns=878877

Original post: Procyon

Thankyou, it's good to know the outcome is positive, though I am curious how I got

Dissipation; in the world of fools.
The kingly man stands firm, divides and rules.

and you got

Dispersion. Success.
The king approaches his temple.
It furthers one to cross the great water.
Perseverance furthers.

Also what are those different methodolgies you mentioned?

Thankyou
Procyon

Original post: Son of mr. gordo

Thankyou, it's good to know the outcome is positive, though I am curious how I got

Dissipation; in the world of fools.
The kingly man stands firm, divides and rules.

and you got

Dispersion. Success.
The king approaches his temple.
It furthers one to cross the great water.
Perseverance furthers.

These are both the same. There are many books that were translated with minor adjustments here and there. The core definitions are the same. The leading authoritative guide is considered the Wilhelm-Baynes text. This is considered the authoritative text by academics, and some pracititioners. Personally, I use the orthodox method for a quick answer, but for serious divinations I use the Lin Chi Ching. For a while I was researching the Wen Wang Ba Gua, but this will have to wait because of the large number of sheer nuances involved. Alot of people like using the Wilhelm Baynes, and it is OK, but I really prefer staying away from any confucian texts, there are a few pre-confucian texts that IMHO are much more black and white. However, the professionals in Singapore, Hong Kong, and China use the Wen Wang Ba Gua or Lin Chi Ching for I-Ching divination.

Here is the only link you'll need to research the i-ching:

http://www.biroco.com/yijing/index.htm

An absolutely thorough site with very blunt book reviews that are right on the mark. Also goes over the very rare and obscure Wen Wang Ba Gua and Lin Chi Ching methods.

Original post: Shepard of Arcadia

I couldn't put a pic on here but aren't those I ching trigrams on the four corners of the flag around the ying yang. I'm not too familiar with the I ching and was curious as to what they mean.

Original post: Shepard of Arcadia

here's a pic

Original post: Son of mr. gordo

The flag, called "Tae Kuk," symbolizes the thought, philosophy, and mysticism of the Far East.

The circle in the center, red upper half and blue lower half, represents absolute, or the essential unity of all being. The Yang (positive) and the Yin (negative) divisions within the circle represent duality.

The four trigrams also indicate the duality of opposites and balances. In the upper left trigram, three unbroken lines symbolize Heaven; opposite them in the lower right, three broken lines represent Earth. In the upper right trigram, two broken lines separated by an unbroken line is the symbol of Water; opposite them is Fire, symbolized by two unbroken lines separated by a broken line.

Symbolic of the nation is the white background (the land), the circle (people), and the four trigrams (the government). All three make up the essential elements of the nation.

http://www.paulnoll.com/Korea/History/

Original post: Procyon

Thankyou very much Son of mr. gordo, I believe "Here is the only link you'll need to research the i-ching" sums it up pretty well.

Procyon

Original post: pathless

Has anyone herd of Carol Anthony and Hanna Moog they are giving a seminar in two days...should i stay or should I go?

http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/1 ... 56-4872364

Original post: Son of mr. gordo

Carl Anthony's works are supposed to be OK. Have you read his other books? He seems to use an orthodox method of i-ching with his own unique spin. In China, Singapore, Taiwan, and Hong Kong, the professionals don't use the orthodox method. They use the Wen Wang Ba Gua method or the Lin Chi Ching method. Have you done alot of work with the i-ching pathless?

Original post: Son of mr. gordo

[QUOTE=Son of mr. gordo]For kicks, I consulted the I-Ching on this too (I am by no means even remotely proficient with this oracle )

The question I posed was: Will John Kerry be elected as the new President of the U.S.

The first hexagram I received was LU (treading)

http://www.panix.com/~tkirman/iching/s_ic/10.html

There were three moving lines (the first three of the lower gua). When there are three moving lines, the middle one is considered the positive or negative answer to the question being asked. The middle line text is translated as:



I took this as a positve sign that Kerry would be elected over Bush.

Because of the moving lines, this generates a second hexagram which was TUN (Withdrawing).

http://www.los.org/iching/s_ic/33.html

This second hexagram can be interpreted as the future of what will happen when Kerry is elected president. The second hexagram's texts state:




Well, my two cents from my rather remedial understanding of the I-Ching is that Kerry will be elected as the new President of the U.S. I won't even be remotely surprised that I'm wrong though. :lol:


Son of mr. gordo[/QUOTE]



Ah man, there goes the book deal I was working on. :lol:

Original post: Harmonic_Order

In 1993, my family bought me a copy of I Ching, the ancient Taoist oracle. I read about it in an old edition of The Whole Earth Catalog. A column written by a hippy said he consulted it during a season during which "Dog Wine . . . ruin[ed] my eyesight." I have followed the oracle since then.

I don't remember the author of the original text I had, but I followed it through some pretty squalid times. I finally gave it to a young radical I knew. For years I have used "The I Ching Workbook" by R.L. Wing, which I found by way of Nancy B. Watson's "Practical Solitary Magic."

In the past it has reliably told me what happened the day before the reading. I have found it possible to control the throw of the coins. At times, the signifigance seemed to run out, and it reminded me of a fortune cookie or a daily scramble of virtue lectures. At best, it needs the Prajnaparamita to explain it: "Gone, gone, gone beyond;gone entirely beyond. What an awakening, Hail!" Beyond words. At worst, it has led me nowhere dangerous. I recommend I Ching as an oracle and scrying tool, as well as a tool for introspection and instruction in life skills.

H_O