Original post: Nalyd23
[QUOTE=visceral/spagyrical]You want proof? How about taking a good look at your computer, your clothes, your house, your car, your food, and then prove to me that the mind can't do amazing things.
Personally, I'm fed up with people who want proof magic exists.
If you can't find proof just by looking at the world around you, then you're in a sad state of affairs.
v/s[/QUOTE]Personally I think v/s has a better grasp on Magick than most on OF. So the previous post, to me, is utter bullshit. Don't come to OF with this attitude.
Proof magic exists
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: Dracoid
No,I can't agree,that Placebo effect is something magical.It has medical
explanation.
There are other magical methods in the medicine,for example.The accupuncture
is one of them-even the medicts will agree with the chi-conception.YThe psychiatry
uses some kind of shamanic methods like colorotherapy,dance therapy etc.
Carl Jung says,that the scientific mind has arisen from the magical one.The alchemy
is the "mother" of the modern chemistry and psychology.The astronomy has arisen
from the astrology.Most of the modern philosophical teachings like those of Hegel,
Carl Marx,the realism have roots in the hermeticism and alchemy.
Think about it:)).
Of course,there are many proofs for the existing of the magical,the ufos,ghosts etc.
I know several scientists,who were total "unvelievers"(I hate this word!:) and after
they met some mystics,psychics etc they became interested in that matter and
even occult students.
The magical and psychic abbilities WERE examined scientifically many times and there
were many positive resultats.There are many photos of UFO's,ghosts etc.But,as Murry Hope has quoted the great scientist Heinrich Von Helmholz-"no matter what the Royal Academy says,no matter what I feel with my own senses,I won't accept in any way,that there is another way for information exchange between two minds,exept those of the conventional ways of the 5 senses,any kind of mimics or gestures.My opinion is final
and no other proofs will change it".
My partents asked me to perform healing with crystalls,they have seen many times
what I can do with reiki or clairvoyance,they become convinient for some time,but
after that they start once again to say,that the occult is a quite bunch,that it is delusion
etc.
Yes,it is very difficult to get out of the Matrix:))
No,I can't agree,that Placebo effect is something magical.It has medical
explanation.
There are other magical methods in the medicine,for example.The accupuncture
is one of them-even the medicts will agree with the chi-conception.YThe psychiatry
uses some kind of shamanic methods like colorotherapy,dance therapy etc.
Carl Jung says,that the scientific mind has arisen from the magical one.The alchemy
is the "mother" of the modern chemistry and psychology.The astronomy has arisen
from the astrology.Most of the modern philosophical teachings like those of Hegel,
Carl Marx,the realism have roots in the hermeticism and alchemy.
Think about it:)).
Of course,there are many proofs for the existing of the magical,the ufos,ghosts etc.
I know several scientists,who were total "unvelievers"(I hate this word!:) and after
they met some mystics,psychics etc they became interested in that matter and
even occult students.
The magical and psychic abbilities WERE examined scientifically many times and there
were many positive resultats.There are many photos of UFO's,ghosts etc.But,as Murry Hope has quoted the great scientist Heinrich Von Helmholz-"no matter what the Royal Academy says,no matter what I feel with my own senses,I won't accept in any way,that there is another way for information exchange between two minds,exept those of the conventional ways of the 5 senses,any kind of mimics or gestures.My opinion is final
and no other proofs will change it".
My partents asked me to perform healing with crystalls,they have seen many times
what I can do with reiki or clairvoyance,they become convinient for some time,but
after that they start once again to say,that the occult is a quite bunch,that it is delusion
etc.
Yes,it is very difficult to get out of the Matrix:))
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: Horus
Well there is a similar scientific proof for those nonbelievers out there that's even more impressive than placebo. There have been SEVERAL studies conducted on monks and the amazing feats they are able to pull off. One such feat that I'm sure you could find information on is breaking objects over ones body (this most certainly is magick) and evaporating the moisture from a wet towel while in below zero degree weather (elemental fire anyone?
)
Well there is a similar scientific proof for those nonbelievers out there that's even more impressive than placebo. There have been SEVERAL studies conducted on monks and the amazing feats they are able to pull off. One such feat that I'm sure you could find information on is breaking objects over ones body (this most certainly is magick) and evaporating the moisture from a wet towel while in below zero degree weather (elemental fire anyone?
)-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: Väkisinkastettu
What magick there is in breaking things with one's head, arms or legs? If the monks could do it without touching the objects, then it could be magick.Horus wrote:Well there is a similar scientific proof for those nonbelievers out there that's even more impressive than placebo. There have been SEVERAL studies conducted on monks and the amazing feats they are able to pull off. One such feat that I'm sure you could find information on is breaking objects over ones body (this most certainly is magick)
Are you really trying to say there is something magickal in that, too?and evaporating the moisture from a wet towel while in below zero degree weather (elemental fire anyone?
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: Lord Ruthven
Many scientists would dispute those as mere palour tricks, though Horus - I'm not even sure on them myself. However, medical science recognises the placebo effect so I don't see how a rational argument against magic can be maintained in the face of that.
Naldy23,
That last post came dangerously close to flaming a member, I appreciate you're speaking up for someone you respect but believe me v/s can speak for himself and calling another member's comments "bullshit" is unacceptable.
Many scientists would dispute those as mere palour tricks, though Horus - I'm not even sure on them myself. However, medical science recognises the placebo effect so I don't see how a rational argument against magic can be maintained in the face of that.
Naldy23,
That last post came dangerously close to flaming a member, I appreciate you're speaking up for someone you respect but believe me v/s can speak for himself and calling another member's comments "bullshit" is unacceptable.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: Lord Ruthven
[QUOTE=Rin Daemoko]
Sorry about the posting-twice-in-a-row but I just saw this (skipped straight to page 2 originally not realising I hadn't seen some of page 1).
I completely agree that the placebo effect is not the only kind of magic, indeed I think it is the simplest form of magic - which is why any untrained person can perform it with a 30% success rate. Name another kind of magic that's that easy! That's why science has already found it (even though it doesn't realise what it has found) because it is so easy that it is everywhere.
[QUOTE=Rin Daemoko]
The placebo effect works as a very decent theory
provided that the spell has been cast for oneself,
or for someone who knows about it. What about
spells cast for people who don't know about it?
Case in point: One year ago, my maternal parental
unit was desperate to find a house to buy. We have
been renting for 20 years, and the rentalsmen are
... retarded. So, in secret I performed a ritual.
One year to the day (I wrote it down), I received
word from my maternal parental unit that her
friend from work had married and was moving in
with her husband, so she would be selling her home.
It was sold to us.
[/QUOTE] Sorry about the posting-twice-in-a-row but I just saw this (skipped straight to page 2 originally not realising I hadn't seen some of page 1).
I completely agree that the placebo effect is not the only kind of magic, indeed I think it is the simplest form of magic - which is why any untrained person can perform it with a 30% success rate. Name another kind of magic that's that easy! That's why science has already found it (even though it doesn't realise what it has found) because it is so easy that it is everywhere.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: Fell
Kudos.
The fantastic is the real that most people choose to ignore.
Kudos.
The fantastic is the real that most people choose to ignore.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: visceral/spagyrical
"Take a look in the mirror."
"Okay."
"Do you see the magic?"
"No."
"I'm sorry to hear that."
"What's that supposed to mean?"
"Well, from where I'm standing, there's a lot more to your reflection than just a face."
It's funny that skeptics and non-believers are the only ones who can't seem to get their heads out of fantasy novels. They can't seem to detach themselves from that awful image of Merlin. If only they would, they'd see more than just a face when they look in the mirror. They'd see magic, regardless of whether or not they choose to call it that.
Now, when I speak of "non-believers" I'm referring to those who don't believe in themselves and when I speak of "skeptics" I'm referring to those who constantly doubt themselves.
For me, magic is about understanding who I am and appreciating who I see when I look in the mirror.
That's what magic is about. It's about you and the world around you. Though sometimes I wonder if that's even harder to believe in than casting fireballs from the end of a stick.
I can't prove you. You'll have to do that yourself.
v/s
You want proof? How about taking a good look at your computer, your clothes, your house, your car, your food, and then prove to me that the mind can't do amazing things.
Personally, I'm fed up with people who want proof magic exists.
If you can't find proof just by looking at the world around you, then you're in a sad state of affairs.
v/s
Let me put it another way...Väkisinkastettu wrote:Sigh, you can't be serious. In my book of worst arguments of all times this is in the top ten, mostly used by christians to 'prove' their pathetic god exists.You want proof? How about taking a good look at your computer, your clothes, your house, your car, your food,
"Just look around you and you'll see X is true, if you can't see it you are but a blind!"
And this little gem must be at least in the top five, featured in the first page and recommended by thousands. Generally used by christians and other crackpots.and then prove to me that the mind can't do amazing things.
"Person A: Could someone prove X? - Person B: No! You prove Z!", Where Z is the opposite of X.
"Take a look in the mirror."
"Okay."
"Do you see the magic?"
"No."
"I'm sorry to hear that."
"What's that supposed to mean?"
"Well, from where I'm standing, there's a lot more to your reflection than just a face."
It's funny that skeptics and non-believers are the only ones who can't seem to get their heads out of fantasy novels. They can't seem to detach themselves from that awful image of Merlin. If only they would, they'd see more than just a face when they look in the mirror. They'd see magic, regardless of whether or not they choose to call it that.
Now, when I speak of "non-believers" I'm referring to those who don't believe in themselves and when I speak of "skeptics" I'm referring to those who constantly doubt themselves.
For me, magic is about understanding who I am and appreciating who I see when I look in the mirror.
That's what magic is about. It's about you and the world around you. Though sometimes I wonder if that's even harder to believe in than casting fireballs from the end of a stick.
I can't prove you. You'll have to do that yourself.
v/s
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: She Demon Wolf
One of the first things I was taught in psychology, was about how experimenter bias can affect the outcome of an experiment.
A researcher is given two sets of rats. He is told that one set of rats are bred to be maze bright- ie, good at running mazes, while the other group was maze dull- ie, bad at mazes. The rats are run through the mazes and times are taken. The mazes are changed and cleaned each time to make sure that the rats are not communicating of following a smell.
Naturally, the maze bright rats get faster times in and out of the maze than the maze dull rats.
What the researcher didn't know, is that all the rats were exactly the same, from the same litter and they were in no way selectivly bred. They were neither good or bad at mazes- just plain old rats who had then been randomly placed into two groups.
There is not explanation for this phenomena, other than the expectations and beliefs of the researcher affected the outcome of the experiment.
One of the first things I was taught in psychology, was about how experimenter bias can affect the outcome of an experiment.
A researcher is given two sets of rats. He is told that one set of rats are bred to be maze bright- ie, good at running mazes, while the other group was maze dull- ie, bad at mazes. The rats are run through the mazes and times are taken. The mazes are changed and cleaned each time to make sure that the rats are not communicating of following a smell.
Naturally, the maze bright rats get faster times in and out of the maze than the maze dull rats.
What the researcher didn't know, is that all the rats were exactly the same, from the same litter and they were in no way selectivly bred. They were neither good or bad at mazes- just plain old rats who had then been randomly placed into two groups.
There is not explanation for this phenomena, other than the expectations and beliefs of the researcher affected the outcome of the experiment.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: Horus
[QUOTE=Lord Ruthven]Many scientists would dispute those as mere palour tricks, though Horus - I'm not even sure on them myself. However, medical science recognises the placebo effect so I don't see how a rational argument against magic can be maintained in the face of that.[/QUOTE]Parlor tricks reproduced in a controlled setting?
[QUOTE=Väkisinkastettu]What magick there is in breaking things with one's head, arms or legs? If the monks could do it without touching the objects, then it could be magick.
Are you really trying to say there is something magickal in that, too?[/QUOTE]Well the fact that the body (despite touching, is this cheating in "magick"... sorry didn't read the rules) is taking hits that normally would cause terrible bruising and perhaps break bone without so much as a scratch. I would say that's pretty abnormal and damn magickal, whether you agree or not. And as far as the second thing, the fact that a monk is generating enough heat by the mere power of his imagination/mind to dry a cold, wet towel in below freezing doesn't count as magick? I knew that Magick was the Art and Science of causing change in conformity with Will but I wasn't aware that this was limited ot external changes... or of a "touching rule"
[QUOTE=Lord Ruthven]Many scientists would dispute those as mere palour tricks, though Horus - I'm not even sure on them myself. However, medical science recognises the placebo effect so I don't see how a rational argument against magic can be maintained in the face of that.[/QUOTE]Parlor tricks reproduced in a controlled setting?
[QUOTE=Väkisinkastettu]What magick there is in breaking things with one's head, arms or legs? If the monks could do it without touching the objects, then it could be magick.
Are you really trying to say there is something magickal in that, too?[/QUOTE]Well the fact that the body (despite touching, is this cheating in "magick"... sorry didn't read the rules) is taking hits that normally would cause terrible bruising and perhaps break bone without so much as a scratch. I would say that's pretty abnormal and damn magickal, whether you agree or not. And as far as the second thing, the fact that a monk is generating enough heat by the mere power of his imagination/mind to dry a cold, wet towel in below freezing doesn't count as magick? I knew that Magick was the Art and Science of causing change in conformity with Will but I wasn't aware that this was limited ot external changes... or of a "touching rule"
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: visceral/spagyrical
One of the many things I'm determined to do within this lifetime. (Drying a towel, that is. The rest of Buddhism isn't really for me.)
v/s
Ah, Buddhist initiation...And as far as the second thing, the fact that a monk is generating enough heat by the mere power of his imagination/mind to dry a cold, wet towel in below freezing doesn't count as magick?
One of the many things I'm determined to do within this lifetime. (Drying a towel, that is. The rest of Buddhism isn't really for me.)
v/s
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: Jenfucius
(Not adressing to anyone in particular)
Serious who cares if others dont believe in magick or psychic abilities. Some people simply dont deserve to know. And some people are better off not getting into the occult. Like would you want to validate the occult to people like Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Jeffrie Dahmer and the like? I'm sure theres more Jeffrie Dahmers, Charles Mansons, John Wayne Gacys, David Berkowitzs types out there.
Would you seriously want the occult to be taught in public schools (like one time president of Haiti Papa Doc Duvalier advocated)? Would you the entire world's population to be into the occult?
Even some Christian groups are into the occult. Like the Mormons
and pseudo gnostic groups like the Gnostic Institute. And cults like that "Om" cult in Japan that did that Tokyo nerve gas attack. Is that what people really want to occultic-size the public and rest of the world? Can you imagine Bin Laden and Al Qaeda being an occult terroist group or even the entire nation turning torwards the occult or teaching it in school? Is that what we really want?
For those who are not familar. Occult means Hidden. When it is no longer hidden its not the occult no more. Give a laud mouth occultist enough rope and he will hang himself one day.
(Not adressing to anyone in particular)
Serious who cares if others dont believe in magick or psychic abilities. Some people simply dont deserve to know. And some people are better off not getting into the occult. Like would you want to validate the occult to people like Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Jeffrie Dahmer and the like? I'm sure theres more Jeffrie Dahmers, Charles Mansons, John Wayne Gacys, David Berkowitzs types out there.
Would you seriously want the occult to be taught in public schools (like one time president of Haiti Papa Doc Duvalier advocated)? Would you the entire world's population to be into the occult?
Even some Christian groups are into the occult. Like the Mormons
and pseudo gnostic groups like the Gnostic Institute. And cults like that "Om" cult in Japan that did that Tokyo nerve gas attack. Is that what people really want to occultic-size the public and rest of the world? Can you imagine Bin Laden and Al Qaeda being an occult terroist group or even the entire nation turning torwards the occult or teaching it in school? Is that what we really want?
For those who are not familar. Occult means Hidden. When it is no longer hidden its not the occult no more. Give a laud mouth occultist enough rope and he will hang himself one day.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: Wiseone
well even though i cant see more than the pysichal parts of things i still believe there is magic. i can feel it around my body when i manipulate the of my body to my bidding. and i dont care for those who dont think magic exists as they probably wont for a long time i would guess. so it would be best to just keep it hidden as what occult means you know. i dont know that is what i think and hope that it makes sesne.
well even though i cant see more than the pysichal parts of things i still believe there is magic. i can feel it around my body when i manipulate the of my body to my bidding. and i dont care for those who dont think magic exists as they probably wont for a long time i would guess. so it would be best to just keep it hidden as what occult means you know. i dont know that is what i think and hope that it makes sesne.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: Väkisinkastettu
I still can't see anything magickal in someone being able to control their bodies a bit better than people on average. After a long period of training you simply know how to hit the object right and learn to take the pain.
But sure, if you think this is magickal then go ahead, maybe we just define 'magick' very differently, in my definition there's a strong value of the word "supernatural".
If you put a cold, wet towel outside at winter when the temperature is under 0 C the towel will dry by itself. It will take a bit longer time than if it would be warm but it will still nevertheless dry. This effect is called sublimation and it has nothing to do with magick. It would be magick if you actually could keep the towel wet.
The order of which I am a member had a special IQ test which you had to pass before you could join, I would seriously recommend the same for this forum for the obvious reasons shown in this thread...
Horus wrote: Well the fact that the body (..) is taking hits that normally would cause terrible bruising and perhaps break bone without so much as a scratch. I would say that's pretty abnormal and damn magickal, whether you agree or not.
I still can't see anything magickal in someone being able to control their bodies a bit better than people on average. After a long period of training you simply know how to hit the object right and learn to take the pain.
But sure, if you think this is magickal then go ahead, maybe we just define 'magick' very differently, in my definition there's a strong value of the word "supernatural".
And as far as the second thing, the fact that a monk is generating enough heat by the mere power of his imagination/mind to dry a cold, wet towel in below freezing doesn't count as magick? I knew that Magick was the Art and Science of causing change in conformity with Will but I wasn't aware that this was limited ot external changes... or of a "touching rule"
If you put a cold, wet towel outside at winter when the temperature is under 0 C the towel will dry by itself. It will take a bit longer time than if it would be warm but it will still nevertheless dry. This effect is called sublimation and it has nothing to do with magick. It would be magick if you actually could keep the towel wet.
The order of which I am a member had a special IQ test which you had to pass before you could join, I would seriously recommend the same for this forum for the obvious reasons shown in this thread...
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: visceral/spagyrical
v/s
Now that you've pointed out the problem, maybe you should explain what you mean by "supernatural." That might help.But sure, if you think this is magickal then go ahead, maybe we just define 'magick' very differently, in my definition there's a strong value of the word "supernatural".
Maybe you should try sitting outside in below freezing temperatures with a wet towel around your naked body. Let me know if it dries on its own before you freeze to death.If you put a cold, wet towel outside at winter when the temperature is under 0 C the towel will dry by itself. It will take a bit longer time than if it would be warm but it will still nevertheless dry. This effect is called sublimation and it has nothing to do with magick. It would be magick if you actually could keep the towel wet.
Maybe you should stop attacking other members.The order of which I am a member had a special IQ test which you had to pass before you could join, I would seriously recommend the same for this forum for the obvious reasons shown in this thread...
v/s
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: nakibean
[QUOTE=Lord Ruthven]Ludi,
Magic is the acknowledgement you can do this and the focusing of it. [/QUOTE]Does one have to acknowledge the fact they can do something and focus on it for it to be magic? There are people who have magickal things happen to them and they turn a blind's eye... they not only deny it but completely go against it. But I guess subconsciously they do know the truth. So I guess I answered my own question. *blushing*
[QUOTE=Jenfucius]Serious who cares if others dont believe in magick or psychic abilities. Some people simply dont deserve to know.[/QUOTE]I agree its not like we are trying to convert anyone. I don't think some don't deserve to know, I more think they are not ready to know or have already chosen not to.
[QUOTE=Väkisinkastettu]If you put a cold, wet towel outside at winter when the temperature is under 0 C the towel will dry by itself. It will take a bit longer time than if it would be warm but it will still nevertheless dry. This effect is called sublimation and it has nothing to do with magick. It would be magick if you actually could keep the towel wet.[/QUOTE]not to get into your "debate" but sublimation is the solid turning directly to gas vapor. Considering the water in the wet towel is in liquid form and being below 0 C is causing the liquid to freeze hence going to solid form what you just said is not true. From my humble understanding of the word sublimation, mind you. Please don't flame but could you please help me to understand better?
smiles...
nakibean
[QUOTE=Lord Ruthven]Ludi,
Magic is the acknowledgement you can do this and the focusing of it. [/QUOTE]Does one have to acknowledge the fact they can do something and focus on it for it to be magic? There are people who have magickal things happen to them and they turn a blind's eye... they not only deny it but completely go against it. But I guess subconsciously they do know the truth. So I guess I answered my own question. *blushing*
[QUOTE=Jenfucius]Serious who cares if others dont believe in magick or psychic abilities. Some people simply dont deserve to know.[/QUOTE]I agree its not like we are trying to convert anyone. I don't think some don't deserve to know, I more think they are not ready to know or have already chosen not to.
[QUOTE=Väkisinkastettu]If you put a cold, wet towel outside at winter when the temperature is under 0 C the towel will dry by itself. It will take a bit longer time than if it would be warm but it will still nevertheless dry. This effect is called sublimation and it has nothing to do with magick. It would be magick if you actually could keep the towel wet.[/QUOTE]not to get into your "debate" but sublimation is the solid turning directly to gas vapor. Considering the water in the wet towel is in liquid form and being below 0 C is causing the liquid to freeze hence going to solid form what you just said is not true. From my humble understanding of the word sublimation, mind you. Please don't flame but could you please help me to understand better?
smiles...
nakibean
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: Väkisinkastettu
[QUOTE=visceral/spagyrical]Now that you've pointed out the problem, maybe you should explain what you mean by "supernatural." That might help.
[/QUOTE] I think it's quite well put in one online dictionary: "The supernatural refers to conscious magical, religious or unknown forces that cannot ordinarily be perceived except through their effects. This word is often used interchangeably with preternatural or paranormal. Unlike natural forces, these putative supernatural forces can not be shown to exist by the scientific method. Claims of supernatural phenomena conflict directly and fundamentally with current scientific understanding."
-http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Supernatural
[QUOTE=visceral/spagyrical]
Maybe you should try sitting outside in below freezing temperatures with a wet towel around your naked body. Let me know if it dries on its own before you freeze to death.
[/QUOTE] Are you saying that this is what the monks do or are you trying to say something else?
EDITED BY DOH AS INFLAMMATORY WITH NO BEARING ON THE DISCUSSION
[QUOTE=visceral/spagyrical]Now that you've pointed out the problem, maybe you should explain what you mean by "supernatural." That might help.
[/QUOTE] I think it's quite well put in one online dictionary: "The supernatural refers to conscious magical, religious or unknown forces that cannot ordinarily be perceived except through their effects. This word is often used interchangeably with preternatural or paranormal. Unlike natural forces, these putative supernatural forces can not be shown to exist by the scientific method. Claims of supernatural phenomena conflict directly and fundamentally with current scientific understanding."
-http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Supernatural
[QUOTE=visceral/spagyrical]
Maybe you should try sitting outside in below freezing temperatures with a wet towel around your naked body. Let me know if it dries on its own before you freeze to death.
[/QUOTE] Are you saying that this is what the monks do or are you trying to say something else?
EDITED BY DOH AS INFLAMMATORY WITH NO BEARING ON THE DISCUSSION
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: cpmg_101
During my last visit to Taipei, Taiwan, I saw an individual on TV that has gone insane for, apparently, no reason. There is someone who worked at the temple, who is a ji tong, which means that a person who have been given instruction from above to carry out tasks. Anyways, this ji tong looked at the person and said that this person is possessed by spirits because he frequently passed by a graveyard, which was confirmed to be true. The ji tong then drew a magickal script and burned it, and placed the ashes in a bowl of water (or alcohol) and took a sip, then blow it out on the person. The person looked shocked or in pain for a momment, and then he is back to normal. Not sure if this is enough evidence.
cpmg_101
During my last visit to Taipei, Taiwan, I saw an individual on TV that has gone insane for, apparently, no reason. There is someone who worked at the temple, who is a ji tong, which means that a person who have been given instruction from above to carry out tasks. Anyways, this ji tong looked at the person and said that this person is possessed by spirits because he frequently passed by a graveyard, which was confirmed to be true. The ji tong then drew a magickal script and burned it, and placed the ashes in a bowl of water (or alcohol) and took a sip, then blow it out on the person. The person looked shocked or in pain for a momment, and then he is back to normal. Not sure if this is enough evidence.
cpmg_101
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: Dracophoenix
This is not directed at any one individual. Please everbody play nicely and respect each other's opinion even if it differs from your own.
This is not directed at any one individual. Please everbody play nicely and respect each other's opinion even if it differs from your own.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: Väkisinkastettu
[QUOTE=nakibean]
not to get into your "debate" but sublimation is the solid turning directly to gas vapor. Considering the water in the wet towel is in liquid form and being below 0 C is causing the liquid to freeze hence going to solid form what you just said is not true. From my humble understanding of the word sublimation, mind you. Please don't flame but could you please help me to understand better?
[/QUOTE] When you put a cold, wet towel to a temperature under 0 C two things happens. First the water starts to evaporate, i.e. the water turns in to gas and floats away, thus the towel begins to dry. However, after a short period of time the water in the towel freezes because of the low temperature, this turns the water in to ice, as we all know. After this the ice starts to turn to gas, this is called sublimation. After some time the towel will be 100% dry because all the water have turned into gas and floated away.
Both sublimation and evaporation are phenomena which start automatically. The point is, against 'common sense' an object will dry just by itself even under 0 C temperature because the process of drying doesn't require heat (heat will increase the speed of the process though).
Anyone can verify this to be true simply by putting a wet towel outside at winter, if you live in a place where it gets cold at winter, that is.
I didn't first go to this much in details since I thought this really was something that most would already know, I mean this was tought to me like in the elementary school. But then again, school systems around the world are different.
[QUOTE=nakibean]
not to get into your "debate" but sublimation is the solid turning directly to gas vapor. Considering the water in the wet towel is in liquid form and being below 0 C is causing the liquid to freeze hence going to solid form what you just said is not true. From my humble understanding of the word sublimation, mind you. Please don't flame but could you please help me to understand better?
[/QUOTE] When you put a cold, wet towel to a temperature under 0 C two things happens. First the water starts to evaporate, i.e. the water turns in to gas and floats away, thus the towel begins to dry. However, after a short period of time the water in the towel freezes because of the low temperature, this turns the water in to ice, as we all know. After this the ice starts to turn to gas, this is called sublimation. After some time the towel will be 100% dry because all the water have turned into gas and floated away.
Both sublimation and evaporation are phenomena which start automatically. The point is, against 'common sense' an object will dry just by itself even under 0 C temperature because the process of drying doesn't require heat (heat will increase the speed of the process though).
Anyone can verify this to be true simply by putting a wet towel outside at winter, if you live in a place where it gets cold at winter, that is.
I didn't first go to this much in details since I thought this really was something that most would already know, I mean this was tought to me like in the elementary school. But then again, school systems around the world are different.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: AJAtheMetastasis
And the Universe is contained in (one) teardrop, within a teardrop, within a teardrop, within a teardrop, within a teardrop, within a teardrop, within a teardrop, within a teardrop, within a teardrop.
And the Universe is contained in (one) teardrop, within a teardrop, within a teardrop, within a teardrop, within a teardrop, within a teardrop, within a teardrop, within a teardrop, within a teardrop.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: Horus
[QUOTE=Väkisinkastettu]
The order of which I am a member had a special IQ test which you had to pass before you could join, I would seriously recommend the same for this forum for the obvious reasons shown in this thread...[/QUOTE]
Really? What order is this
[QUOTE=Väkisinkastettu]
The order of which I am a member had a special IQ test which you had to pass before you could join, I would seriously recommend the same for this forum for the obvious reasons shown in this thread...[/QUOTE]
Really? What order is this
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: Horus
I've seen plenty of wet towels, brushes, and other material left out in this weather and it simply does not evaporate, especially after freezing. In freezing and below freezing temperatures the only sublimation that happens with water is from vapour to solid. Perhaps you should retake that test...
and furthermore this doesn't answer the question... how does the poor monk who's sitting out there... not even shivering, keep from freezing his ass off?
I've seen plenty of wet towels, brushes, and other material left out in this weather and it simply does not evaporate, especially after freezing. In freezing and below freezing temperatures the only sublimation that happens with water is from vapour to solid. Perhaps you should retake that test...
and furthermore this doesn't answer the question... how does the poor monk who's sitting out there... not even shivering, keep from freezing his ass off?
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: Rin Daemoko
Ah, the anomalous behaviour of water. Did you
know that at the molecular level, something else
is going on that is equally as interesting? Ordi-
narily when something freezes, its molecules
contract (slowing down), water does the same
thing until it reaches -4ºC, after that, the water
molecules begin to expand again for some reason.
This continues for a while until they once again
contract. Very strange.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
Proof magic exists
Original post: AJAtheMetastasis
how does the poor monk who's sitting out there... not even shivering, keep from freezing his ass off?[/QUOTE]
Why an electric-blanket of course! :roll:
how does the poor monk who's sitting out there... not even shivering, keep from freezing his ass off?[/QUOTE]
Why an electric-blanket of course! :roll: