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Original post: DrMummy

Fuck that man, I want people to be offended NOW.

Original post: Circle of Twelve

The joker is much more of a showman than Loki, I think Loki was a trickster not wanting to be caught or known for his acts (using disguises, proxies, deception). The joker was much more about being known and feared. He would paint his symbols at his crime scenes (like all batman villains), and loved to be the center of attention. The joker could represent a more wrathful form of Loki, such as they say Loki will be at the Ragnarok. The psychotic clown unleashed, drowned in venom, full of fury.

There is also an interesting parallel here. Loki was imprisoned with a serpent hanging over his head, the venom of the serpent would then drip on Lokiâ??s face (when his wife had to empty the venom bowl) burning him and causing him to convulse leading to earthquakes. The joker is usually said to have become disfigured when he fell into a vat of acid or chemicals. Just some thoughts.

Original post: AETERNITAS0

[QUOTE=petrus4;349812]An Shika,

Aeter,
IMHO what we refer to as the Joker is very much a real entity; not purely an archetype in that sense, but in my own mind an actual being. In that sense it's like the thread on SKYNET that was going around here a bit back.

People in show business or various creative industries I think contact certain beings; they think, however, that they actually created them, when they didn't.
[/QUOTE]

When you begin ascribing objective reality to these beings or entities, in my opinion, you begin falling off track as achaos magician, or any kind of magician. Wether or not these beings really exist in any sense is totally irrelevant, though we may interact with them as if they were.

I highly doubt that anyone who has played the Joker thinks that they created the character or being. Ledger played the Joker and he became him, a acheived union with that god form in a sense.
The Joker is a living entity sense in the same sense that any fictional archetype is, and is also an archetype that has existed long before the comic book character. Each new story and each new actor's portrayal of that character ads not only to the mythos of the entity but also to organsim, thus fleshing it out more and more fully.

Original post: AETERNITAS0

[QUOTE=Circle of Twelve;349912]The joker is much more of a showman than Loki, I think Loki was a trickster not wanting to be caught or known for his acts (using disguises, proxies, deception). The joker was much more about being known and feared. He would paint his symbols at his crime scenes (like all batman villains), and loved to be the center of attention. The joker could represent a more wrathful form of Loki, such as they say Loki will be at the Ragnarok. The psychotic clown unleashed, drowned in venom, full of fury.

There is also an interesting parallel here. Loki was imprisoned with a serpent hanging over his head, the venom of the serpent would then drip on Lokiâ??s face (when his wife had to empty the venom bowl) burning him and causing him to convulse leading to earthquakes. The joker is usually said to have become disfigured when he fell into a vat of acid or chemicals. Just some thoughts.[/QUOTE]

Though they are vastly different in their stories and legends, the actual niche that these entities fill in our syches are very much the same, ie the dangerous and unpredictable trickster.

Original post: deadmort616

My experiences

7/9/08

I created a totem of the joker by permanent markering a Jesus bobble head doll purple and green in a crazy manor.

I talked to the joker. Spoke of how everything is a huge joke and such. Then out of nowhere I started laughing my ass off.

Then it went away. I tried invoking the joker more formally. Nothing happened. I figured it was a passing thing and that I was found uninteresting.

Then I started acting out of character and didnâ??t realize.

I ended up in three other peopleâ??s dorms, drunk off my ass and ran into someone that I swear is me as a guy, made friends with a wrestler and ended up with hickys all over my neck.

What kind of person am I? Wayyyyyyyyyy more introverted then that. Iâ??m quite and introspective even while I have been drinking. Morals, restrictions, tightly wound.

So, the weirdest thing about all this?

The man I ran into, the one thatâ??s just like me?â?¦ arch nemeses brother. Randomly. Out of the blue. Out of all the people in the world that I could hit onâ?¦ {Lets call him Z.}

Its funny. Itâ??s beyond funny. Itâ??s fucking hilarious.

I wonder whatâ??s going to happen tonight. I canâ??t wait.

7/11/08

Invoked the joker. Ended up calling a random person and talking to him four two hours on the phone who turns out to have been friends with the person who was in the dorm room Iâ??m in before me. He also refers to himself as Batman.

I ran into someone who likes Doctor Who, and squeaks, an old friend, came over.

The interesting part: I learned that Z wasnâ??t who I thought he was, squeaks has been cheating on his girlfriend and tried with me, and I made an ass of myself over the phone. Lost Squeaks, Z and S as friends.

7/12/08

Still awake. 6am sent Z a text. Told him I knew that he lied to me. He sent me an asshole text back. Fucker. Sleep now.

5:00pm

Later on I called Z and admitted that I didnâ??t have proof for such belief. He described me as high maintenance and was unable to deal with that. I didnâ??t care. Normally I would. I didnâ??t think I was high maintenance. I kinda go with the flow and see what happens. If bullshit arises I deal with it and move on. I have been described as very unemotional and logical.

7:00pm

Went for a walk and as I was coming up to my dorm, Z drove up, I ignored him but he checked me out. Weird.

In summery, since I invoked the joker my life got more interesting. Not better and perhaps more complicated.

I feel like Iâ??m a pawn in some game that I canâ??t see fully. Everything is full of coincidences and I keep running into people that know people I already know. Itâ??s all weird.

I have nothing to lose. Iâ??m going to continue this to see what happens.

He repeatedly puts people in morally extremely difficult situations, in order for them to find out themselves how they're going to react; whether they're going to do the heroic thing, the selfless thing, or the cowardly and selfish thing. It can let supposedly good people realise that maybe they're actually not as good as they thought they were.

If squeaks coming on to me wasnâ??t a moral dilemma then I have no idea what was.

Original post: filthofstars

[QUOTE=AETERNITAS0;350138]
I highly doubt that anyone who has played the Joker thinks that they created the character or being. Ledger played the Joker and he became him, a acheived union with that god form in a sense.
The Joker is a living entity sense in the same sense that any fictional archetype is, and is also an archetype that has existed long before the comic book character. Each new story and each new actor's portrayal of that character ads not only to the mythos of the entity but also to organsim, thus fleshing it out more and more fully.[/QUOTE]

What I think Magicians should take into consideration is "Invocation" vs. "Acting"

What is a "Character" & how does it differ from a "Spirit"?

Original post: AstralMagickCraft

Proud to add myself to the list of people who invoked the joker, which happened to be during a play, so the first half I was looking dead serious and unimpressed, completely focused on the magickal task at hand, and the next I was cackling and laughing with a dark look on my face. in the front row.

Original post: Molikroth

I did it a few days ago, while driving of all things. My girlfriend got to deal with part of it (swear I didn't mean for that to happen), I was a god damned psycho for a while, full of dark humor.

She said I practically oozed negative energy, and swore she heard his laugh and a baby crying -shrugs- Rigged up my own banishing for him.

Original post: AstralMagickCraft

I looked like I could kill a man, Imagine someone who just slaughtered 50 people and turns his eyes on you with a chuckle, that would have been me.

Original post: AETERNITAS0

[QUOTE=filthofstars;350574]What I think Magicians should take into consideration is "Invocation" vs. "Acting"

What is a "Character" & how does it differ from a "Spirit"?[/QUOTE]

I highly disagree, one of the most powerful forms of invocation is the dramatic ritual, where the life and trials of the ENTITY at hand are acted out until IDENTIFICATION with the ENTITY occurs.

Further, is there a differance between an ENTITY and a Spirit? A Spirit and a Deity? A thought form and an idea? Is Wal Mart not a powerful entity? Probably, in this day and age, more powerful than some dusty old Pagan god.

Original post: AETERNITAS0

[QUOTE=AstralMagickCraft;350757]Proud to add myself to the list of people who invoked the joker, which happened to be during a play, so the first half I was looking dead serious and unimpressed, completely focused on the magickal task at hand, and the next I was cackling and laughing with a dark look on my face. in the front row.[/QUOTE]


A perfect example of what I just posted previously right here.

Original post: AstralMagickCraft

Actually I was watching the play.

I thought it was funny, imagine acting in a play and thinking "wow this kid really doesn't like this play" then "OMG that dude is insane!"

Original post: Ice Flower

I've lost track of how many times I've added this disclaimer, but I'm new to this type of magic. Thus:

Invoking: summoning an energy (thoughtform, godform, etc) into yourself.

Evoking: summoning an energy to a specific area, like inside the circle, so that you may interact physically with that energy.

Correct?

Also, what is the point of either of these? For example, would you invoke the Joker and then go... I dunno, break up with your boyfriend? In other words, do you invoke when you need help with a scenareo?
Do you evoke when you're casting a spell? Would you call the Joker (or someone else) and then give him a command to take with him? This seems a little dangerous. I can't see the Joker manifesting something that would be to the magician's specifics. He is a little unstable, you see. LOL

Enlighten me, people!!!!! :-)

Original post: thisisnecessary

Instability is what they are looking for...

t a k e r i s k s. the name of this game it seems like...especially with the Joker haha.

Original post: Bob_Dealin

anyone seen the Dark Knight yet? their take on the joker is amazing. that particular brand seems very powerful, very... well.. practically the embodiment of anarchy. dangerous. he should be the new poster boy for chaos magick.

Original post: Ice Flower

[QUOTE=thisisnecessary;351516]Instability is what they are looking for... [/QUOTE]

Instability for WHAT?

Original post: AETERNITAS0

[QUOTE=Bob_Dealin;351729]anyone seen the Dark Knight yet? their take on the joker is amazing. that particular brand seems very powerful, very... well.. practically the embodiment of anarchy. dangerous. he should be the new poster boy for chaos magick.[/QUOTE]


"I'm an agent of Chaos."

Original post: AstralMagickCraft

I plan to see the movie tommorow, and invoke the joker at the same time.

hehe...

Original post: Acid_Prep

A friend of mine put on a similar suit, applied the facepaint on PERFECTLY two days ahead of time, and lived with all of it on without eating at all before the midnight premier. The kid's not into magick at all, so it was almost like an unaware invocation.

Just thought that was cool.

But, then again, Ledger was a method actor. Isn't method acting pretty damned similar to invocation?

Original post: Circle of Twelve

Just saw the movie. He really was "an agent of chaos". It did seem like he was channeling the Joker, some of his mannerisms seemed so natural, like constantly licking his lips. I liked how they didn't bother with trying to explain his origins, the joker was always one of the only major villains without an elegant back story and often had conflicting origins. I believe in one comic he stated that he had told so many different stories the he couldn't even remember where he had come from.

I can't wait to see kids running around in Joker masks for Halloween, should contribute to chaos quite nicely.

Original post: AstralMagickCraft

He nearly got me to answer a phone with "hehe I'm a bit craazy..."

This could be the start of something beautiful :evil:

Original post: Draginvry

[QUOTE=Bob_Dealin;351729]he should be the new poster boy for chaos magick.[/QUOTE]

Heath Ledger's take on the Joker is genius. He's completely devoted to breaking down rules, with no regards to the methods he uses.

He's like the ultimate Chaos Magician. Although perhaps an extremely violent one. I found myself cheering for his character, because he's the only one in the movie with real conviction for what he believes in.

Original post: Ice Flower

I loved how he kept changing the story about how he got those scars on his face. It really reminded me of how a perfect chaote is supposed to be able to change their beliefs/attitudes in an instant.

I loved the line "This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object." The force being CHAOS of course.

Also I think the Batman movies are just genious anyway, particularly this one. What makes them so intruiging is that Batman and the Joker are more than their characters; they are archetypes. Batman being a representation of what he fears, the Joker just being the embodiment of insanity.

What makes it more intruiging is that this movie is not the same old good-versus-evil battle. Batman and the Joker are about order verses chaos, purpose versus the random. The Joker is literally a wildcard.

Ledger's performance was absolutely awesome. Chilling. Genious.

Original post: Black Coyote

[QUOTE=Bob_Dealin;351729]anyone seen the Dark Knight yet? their take on the joker is amazing. that particular brand seems very powerful, very... well.. practically the embodiment of anarchy. dangerous. he should be the new poster boy for chaos magick.[/QUOTE]


The Dark Knight was, in my opinion, the best of any film in the Batman franchise thus far. Very true to the origins of the character.

Heath Ledger was positively astonishing as the Joker. What a shame he won't be available to reprise that role in the next film


Coyote

Original post: Bob_Dealin

well, here's the thing, christopher nolan did another movie about magic (no K) ... the prestige... which to me was kind of allegorical to magick (with a K)... so i'm thinking... we have one of "ours" in the hollywood system...

ps. i think the joker is far more powerful than anyone here has mentioned. i'm thinking hakim bey with machine guns for arms.