[QUOTE=theblackpeacock]i read te second one, i didn't get how to use it at all. AHa[/QUOTE]
It is to be used with the Tree of Wryd. Descriptions of the Sinister tarot per-se'. Think magickal visualization exercises.
Black Book of Satan I,II,III
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Original post: AJAtheMetastasis
[QUOTE=theblackpeacock]i read te second one, i didn't get how to use it at all. AHa[/QUOTE]
It is to be used with the Tree of Wryd. Descriptions of the Sinister tarot per-se'. Think magickal visualization exercises.
[QUOTE=theblackpeacock]i read te second one, i didn't get how to use it at all. AHa[/QUOTE]
It is to be used with the Tree of Wryd. Descriptions of the Sinister tarot per-se'. Think magickal visualization exercises.
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Original post: AJAtheMetastasis
[QUOTE=theblackpeacock]i read te second one, i didn't get how to use it at all. AHa[/QUOTE]
The second book is to be use with the Tree of Wryd as a visualization/meditation tool. It also has connection to the Sinister Tarot.
[QUOTE=theblackpeacock]i read te second one, i didn't get how to use it at all. AHa[/QUOTE]
The second book is to be use with the Tree of Wryd as a visualization/meditation tool. It also has connection to the Sinister Tarot.
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Original post: AJAtheMetastasis
[QUOTE=Specktackular]Nevermind...[/QUOTE]
Question: What has ruffled your feathers in such a *negative* fashion? If you read between the lines to the over-all doctrine concerning the ONA you'll see a very concise system of belief and magick. Smoke and mirrors keep the ignorant simply that; ignorant. But then again this can apply to any type of occult studies in general. It all depends upon one's point of view. Closed-mindedness can infect any belief system no matter how hard an acolyte may attempt to keep it from encroaching upon the general belief. Open-mindedness and fluidity of belief is one of the hardest arts for the mage to master, some never accomplish this task, some never will.
[QUOTE=Specktackular]Nevermind...[/QUOTE]
Question: What has ruffled your feathers in such a *negative* fashion? If you read between the lines to the over-all doctrine concerning the ONA you'll see a very concise system of belief and magick. Smoke and mirrors keep the ignorant simply that; ignorant. But then again this can apply to any type of occult studies in general. It all depends upon one's point of view. Closed-mindedness can infect any belief system no matter how hard an acolyte may attempt to keep it from encroaching upon the general belief. Open-mindedness and fluidity of belief is one of the hardest arts for the mage to master, some never accomplish this task, some never will.
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Original post: Specktackular
[QUOTE=AJAtheMetastasis]Question: What has ruffled your feathers in such a *negative* fashion? If you read between the lines to the over-all doctrine concerning the ONA you'll see a very concise system of belief and magick. Smoke and mirrors keep the ignorant simply that; ignorant. But then again this can apply to any type of occult studies in general. It all depends upon one's point of view. Closed-mindedness can infect any belief system no matter how hard an acolyte may attempt to keep it from encroaching upon the general belief. Open-mindedness and fluidity of belief is one of the hardest arts for the mage to master, some never accomplish this task, some never will.[/QUOTE]
My feathers aren't "ruffled" at all. I said "nevermind" because I didn't want to disrupt the thread any further by elaborating in a back-and-forth debate about my opinion of these 21 Statements out of respect for you and anyone else. I haven't even been able to read much of the first page of the first link yet! If you read what I've written, I don't think you'll find it closed-minded any more than it is "closed minded" to believe "bloody child sacrifice" was a poor choice of words for Crowley to use. If I was closed-minded I wouldn't be sitting here trying to read this material online and browsing several other threads listed in the Satanist forums.
[QUOTE=AJAtheMetastasis]Question: What has ruffled your feathers in such a *negative* fashion? If you read between the lines to the over-all doctrine concerning the ONA you'll see a very concise system of belief and magick. Smoke and mirrors keep the ignorant simply that; ignorant. But then again this can apply to any type of occult studies in general. It all depends upon one's point of view. Closed-mindedness can infect any belief system no matter how hard an acolyte may attempt to keep it from encroaching upon the general belief. Open-mindedness and fluidity of belief is one of the hardest arts for the mage to master, some never accomplish this task, some never will.[/QUOTE]
My feathers aren't "ruffled" at all. I said "nevermind" because I didn't want to disrupt the thread any further by elaborating in a back-and-forth debate about my opinion of these 21 Statements out of respect for you and anyone else. I haven't even been able to read much of the first page of the first link yet! If you read what I've written, I don't think you'll find it closed-minded any more than it is "closed minded" to believe "bloody child sacrifice" was a poor choice of words for Crowley to use. If I was closed-minded I wouldn't be sitting here trying to read this material online and browsing several other threads listed in the Satanist forums.
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Original post: AJAtheMetastasis
Noted my friend. I was not accusing you of close-mindedness; more or less I was saying this *infection*(close-mindedness) creates strife within (any) belief system - I apologise for the misunderstanding. The 21 Statements apply to the traditional ONA system of Satanism and those who believe in it's doctrines, (out-sider's) are not required to believe in it. Some believe; some don't.
Noted my friend. I was not accusing you of close-mindedness; more or less I was saying this *infection*(close-mindedness) creates strife within (any) belief system - I apologise for the misunderstanding. The 21 Statements apply to the traditional ONA system of Satanism and those who believe in it's doctrines, (out-sider's) are not required to believe in it. Some believe; some don't.
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Original post: Specktackular
Guess what? I just carefully re-read the 21 statements imagining they were part of the Tao Teh Ching (in other words, not taking it at face value) and, while I'm not sure if I interpreted it the way it was intended, I can agree with almost every single statement. High Indifference. It's all about slant and similar to the way the Book of The Law is interpret-able. Similar to some of Crowley's instructions, I could see some poor sap realizing the deeper levels of meaning a bit too late. But, the Left Hand Path is considered "dangerous" for a reason.
Guess what? I just carefully re-read the 21 statements imagining they were part of the Tao Teh Ching (in other words, not taking it at face value) and, while I'm not sure if I interpreted it the way it was intended, I can agree with almost every single statement. High Indifference. It's all about slant and similar to the way the Book of The Law is interpret-able. Similar to some of Crowley's instructions, I could see some poor sap realizing the deeper levels of meaning a bit too late. But, the Left Hand Path is considered "dangerous" for a reason.
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Original post: AJAtheMetastasis
Ah........... You've opened the secret doors my friend! Welcome. :twisted:
Ah........... You've opened the secret doors my friend! Welcome. :twisted:
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Original post: AJAtheMetastasis
The deeper secrets to The Black Book of Satan and the ONA doctrines in general can be likened to opening Pandora's Box. One must be ready and able to contend with what manifests, or be devoured by what they have unwittingly unleashed.
The deeper secrets to The Black Book of Satan and the ONA doctrines in general can be likened to opening Pandora's Box. One must be ready and able to contend with what manifests, or be devoured by what they have unwittingly unleashed.
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Original post: Jas
To get this out of the way, because it isn't really important to me: Obviously, no occultist is going to read the 21 points at face value. The points might satisfy a would be Satanist who is looking for experience; I dare say that it would have intrigued me when I was an aspirant. But such thought doesn't appeal any more. I am addressing this on a personal level.
I feel no sense of emergency or immediacy and have no desire to purposefully stand out from the crowd. Considering that I do frequently and without any anxiety, I can see that the 21 points are probably best designed for the seeker - Forcing him to experience his self. Representing. All good character building stuff. Just highly unappealing, as I have nothing to prove.
Having read much of the rest of the text it seems to be the standard fair. Nothing that really sparked my imagination, though it seems solid and appropriate for its intended audience. I am, however, interested in reading NAOS, but it seems to be temporarily off-line.
Jas.
To get this out of the way, because it isn't really important to me: Obviously, no occultist is going to read the 21 points at face value. The points might satisfy a would be Satanist who is looking for experience; I dare say that it would have intrigued me when I was an aspirant. But such thought doesn't appeal any more. I am addressing this on a personal level.
I feel no sense of emergency or immediacy and have no desire to purposefully stand out from the crowd. Considering that I do frequently and without any anxiety, I can see that the 21 points are probably best designed for the seeker - Forcing him to experience his self. Representing. All good character building stuff. Just highly unappealing, as I have nothing to prove.
Having read much of the rest of the text it seems to be the standard fair. Nothing that really sparked my imagination, though it seems solid and appropriate for its intended audience. I am, however, interested in reading NAOS, but it seems to be temporarily off-line.
Jas.
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Original post: Specktackular
[QUOTE=Jas]To get this out of the way, because it isn't really important to me: Obviously, no occultist is going to read the 21 points at face value.[/QUOTE]
I would just like to point out that I tend to almost always take Satanist material at face value because it is often so damn blatant and "anti." This just seemed more of the same. I suppose Order of Nine Angles don't actually advocate human sacrifice, then?
[QUOTE=Jas]To get this out of the way, because it isn't really important to me: Obviously, no occultist is going to read the 21 points at face value.[/QUOTE]
I would just like to point out that I tend to almost always take Satanist material at face value because it is often so damn blatant and "anti." This just seemed more of the same. I suppose Order of Nine Angles don't actually advocate human sacrifice, then?
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Original post: Jas
[QUOTE=Specktackular]I would just like to point out that I tend to almost always take Satanist material at face value because it is often so damn blatant and "anti." This just seemed more of the same.[/QUOTE]
This is a matter of perception, but I see that I missed the word 'only' out of my statement.
No occultist is going to read the 21 points 'only' at face value.
Jas.
[QUOTE=Specktackular]I would just like to point out that I tend to almost always take Satanist material at face value because it is often so damn blatant and "anti." This just seemed more of the same.[/QUOTE]
This is a matter of perception, but I see that I missed the word 'only' out of my statement.
No occultist is going to read the 21 points 'only' at face value.
Jas.
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Original post: Specktackular
[QUOTE=Jas]This is a matter of perception, but I see that I missed the word 'only' out of my statement.
No occultist is going to read the 21 points 'only' at face value.
Jas.[/QUOTE]
I was just admitting that I only did. Obviously, I did not think most people would read them and start slaughtering people left and right, but I took it to mean self-interest is the end in itself: "Do what feels good and f*ck everyone else." Period, end of story. It still could very well read that way, of course.
[QUOTE=Jas]This is a matter of perception, but I see that I missed the word 'only' out of my statement.
No occultist is going to read the 21 points 'only' at face value.
Jas.[/QUOTE]
I was just admitting that I only did. Obviously, I did not think most people would read them and start slaughtering people left and right, but I took it to mean self-interest is the end in itself: "Do what feels good and f*ck everyone else." Period, end of story. It still could very well read that way, of course.
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Original post: Jas
[QUOTE=Specktackular]I was just admitting that I only did. Obviously, I did not think most people would read them and start slaughtering people left and right, but I took it to mean self-interest is the end in itself: "Do what feels good and f*ck everyone else." Period, end of story. It still could very well read that way, of course.[/QUOTE]
Hehe. Yeah. Well, some people need guidance and seek it in the most stupid places. I wouldn't recommend any occult order (cult) to anyone who wants to explore the self - Occult texts aren't for those who become hypnotised by them - clearly.
Jas.
[QUOTE=Specktackular]I was just admitting that I only did. Obviously, I did not think most people would read them and start slaughtering people left and right, but I took it to mean self-interest is the end in itself: "Do what feels good and f*ck everyone else." Period, end of story. It still could very well read that way, of course.[/QUOTE]
Hehe. Yeah. Well, some people need guidance and seek it in the most stupid places. I wouldn't recommend any occult order (cult) to anyone who wants to explore the self - Occult texts aren't for those who become hypnotised by them - clearly.
Jas.
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Original post: Hangatyr 13
[QUOTE=Specktackular]Guess what? I just carefully re-read the 21 statements imagining they were part of the Tao Teh Ching (in other words, not taking it at face value) and, while I'm not sure if I interpreted it the way it was intended, I can agree with almost every single statement. High Indifference. It's all about slant and similar to the way the Book of The Law is interpret-able. Similar to some of Crowley's instructions, I could see some poor sap realizing the deeper levels of meaning a bit too late. But, the Left Hand Path is considered "dangerous" for a reason.[/QUOTE]Bravo.
I too, could see someone realizing the deeper meaning a bit too late (or atleast a bit too late to keep them out of prison), but I've never seen that. What I have seen is people looking at them and being automatically turned off by them due to the, as you put it, "blatant" and "anti" language. Such is the intent.
Hmmm... rightous little "white-lighters" and close-minded idiots turning away... or psychotics going on killing sprees and murdering rightous little "white-lighters" and close-minded idiots (that is to say, most people)... either way, what bliss.
Btw: I do what feels good. Fuck everyone else, and I advocate human sacrifice, but I don't practice it because it's illegal. Hey, it's not all metaphorical.
[QUOTE=Specktackular]Guess what? I just carefully re-read the 21 statements imagining they were part of the Tao Teh Ching (in other words, not taking it at face value) and, while I'm not sure if I interpreted it the way it was intended, I can agree with almost every single statement. High Indifference. It's all about slant and similar to the way the Book of The Law is interpret-able. Similar to some of Crowley's instructions, I could see some poor sap realizing the deeper levels of meaning a bit too late. But, the Left Hand Path is considered "dangerous" for a reason.[/QUOTE]Bravo.
I too, could see someone realizing the deeper meaning a bit too late (or atleast a bit too late to keep them out of prison), but I've never seen that. What I have seen is people looking at them and being automatically turned off by them due to the, as you put it, "blatant" and "anti" language. Such is the intent.
Hmmm... rightous little "white-lighters" and close-minded idiots turning away... or psychotics going on killing sprees and murdering rightous little "white-lighters" and close-minded idiots (that is to say, most people)... either way, what bliss.
Btw: I do what feels good. Fuck everyone else, and I advocate human sacrifice, but I don't practice it because it's illegal. Hey, it's not all metaphorical.
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Original post: ReapeR
Anyone has ONA's "Sinister Guide To Black Magick"?? Can't find that book anywhere....
Anyone has ONA's "Sinister Guide To Black Magick"?? Can't find that book anywhere....
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Original post: Specktackular
[QUOTE=Hangatyr 13]Bravo.
I too, could see someone realizing the deeper meaning a bit too late (or atleast a bit too late to keep them out of prison), but I've never seen that. What I have seen is people looking at them and being automatically turned off by them due to the, as you put it, "blatant" and "anti" language. Such is the intent.
Hmmm... rightous little "white-lighters" and close-minded idiots turning away... or psychotics going on killing sprees and murdering rightous little "white-lighters" and close-minded idiots (that is to say, most people)... either way, what bliss.
Btw: I do what feels good. Fuck everyone else, and I advocate human sacrifice, but I don't practice it because it's illegal. Hey, it's not all metaphorical.[/QUOTE]
Hmm, I guess your favorite song is not "Let A Little Love In Your Heart." You do realize that referring to "righteous white-lighters" as if they were your enemies and deserving of death is pretty closed-minded, too, don't you?
[QUOTE=Hangatyr 13]Bravo.
I too, could see someone realizing the deeper meaning a bit too late (or atleast a bit too late to keep them out of prison), but I've never seen that. What I have seen is people looking at them and being automatically turned off by them due to the, as you put it, "blatant" and "anti" language. Such is the intent.
Hmmm... rightous little "white-lighters" and close-minded idiots turning away... or psychotics going on killing sprees and murdering rightous little "white-lighters" and close-minded idiots (that is to say, most people)... either way, what bliss.
Btw: I do what feels good. Fuck everyone else, and I advocate human sacrifice, but I don't practice it because it's illegal. Hey, it's not all metaphorical.
[/QUOTE]Hmm, I guess your favorite song is not "Let A Little Love In Your Heart." You do realize that referring to "righteous white-lighters" as if they were your enemies and deserving of death is pretty closed-minded, too, don't you?
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Original post: Hangatyr 13
[QUOTE=Specktackular]Hmm, I guess your favorite song is not "Let A Little Love In Your Heart." You do realize that referring to "righteous white-lighters" as if they were your enemies and deserving of death is pretty closed-minded, too, don't you?[/QUOTE]Yesss!! I will impale all holy priests on the steeples of cathedrals as beakons of blood and suffering to the dark gods!!
Chill out. I was joking. You have no idea how much amusement I get from the thought of faceless wanton murder. Everyone is deserving of death btw. I like the way you try to turn that close-mindedness thing around on me though, very funny.
And my favorite song is "Rivalry Of Phantoms" by Borknagar.
[QUOTE=Specktackular]Hmm, I guess your favorite song is not "Let A Little Love In Your Heart." You do realize that referring to "righteous white-lighters" as if they were your enemies and deserving of death is pretty closed-minded, too, don't you?[/QUOTE]Yesss!! I will impale all holy priests on the steeples of cathedrals as beakons of blood and suffering to the dark gods!!
Chill out. I was joking. You have no idea how much amusement I get from the thought of faceless wanton murder. Everyone is deserving of death btw. I like the way you try to turn that close-mindedness thing around on me though, very funny.
And my favorite song is "Rivalry Of Phantoms" by Borknagar.
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Original post: Faust
I have glanced at them,not really my thing.No moral objections tho,as it is just a book.
I have glanced at them,not really my thing.No moral objections tho,as it is just a book.
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Original post: Specktackular
[QUOTE=Hangatyr 13]Yesss!!I like the way you try to turn that close-mindedness thing around on me though, very funny.[/QUOTE]
"Try to"? I was just pointing out the contradiction in your own words. How am I supposed to know you're joking?
[QUOTE=Hangatyr 13]Yesss!!I like the way you try to turn that close-mindedness thing around on me though, very funny.[/QUOTE]
"Try to"? I was just pointing out the contradiction in your own words. How am I supposed to know you're joking?
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Original post: Hangatyr 13
[QUOTE=Specktackular]How am I supposed to know you're joking?[/QUOTE]Because my avatar will laugh at you. You just have to look at it really close.
Seriously though, this bickering back and forth thing is getting alittle off topic. So you think the 21 Satanic Points are poorly-worded bad advice and I think they're just fine. What do you think about the rest of the books? I thought the rest of book one was boring, but relevant. Book two was interesting and worth another look because I haven't read it in a few years, and I haven't read the third one yet.
[QUOTE=Specktackular]How am I supposed to know you're joking?[/QUOTE]Because my avatar will laugh at you. You just have to look at it really close.
Seriously though, this bickering back and forth thing is getting alittle off topic. So you think the 21 Satanic Points are poorly-worded bad advice and I think they're just fine. What do you think about the rest of the books? I thought the rest of book one was boring, but relevant. Book two was interesting and worth another look because I haven't read it in a few years, and I haven't read the third one yet.
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Original post: Specktackular
The "master satan" stuff seems a bit much... I haven't had time to read much and "decipher" any deeper meaning yet. And I wasn't bickering with you, just a casual comment about a joke I didn't catch which I guess you took the wrong way. I'm glad we've killed the misunderstanding and are back on topic, though.
The "master satan" stuff seems a bit much... I haven't had time to read much and "decipher" any deeper meaning yet. And I wasn't bickering with you, just a casual comment about a joke I didn't catch which I guess you took the wrong way. I'm glad we've killed the misunderstanding and are back on topic, though.
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Original post: theblackpeacock
i have athlete's foot.
i have athlete's foot.
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Original post: AJAtheMetastasis
[QUOTE=Specktackular]The "master satan" stuff seems a bit much... I haven't had time to read much and "decipher" any deeper meaning yet. And I wasn't bickering with you, just a casual comment about a joke I didn't catch which I guess you took the wrong way. I'm glad we've killed the misunderstanding and are back on topic, though.[/QUOTE]
Specktackular you can go to www.murderdeathkill.net to download all available material to the ONA if you desire to study their philosophy in deeper detail. Sadly to many people make pre-judgements long before they have fully grasped the content to the ONA Satanic philosophy/principles, losing the chance of actually learning it's more profound teachings.
[QUOTE=Specktackular]The "master satan" stuff seems a bit much... I haven't had time to read much and "decipher" any deeper meaning yet. And I wasn't bickering with you, just a casual comment about a joke I didn't catch which I guess you took the wrong way. I'm glad we've killed the misunderstanding and are back on topic, though.[/QUOTE]
Specktackular you can go to www.murderdeathkill.net to download all available material to the ONA if you desire to study their philosophy in deeper detail. Sadly to many people make pre-judgements long before they have fully grasped the content to the ONA Satanic philosophy/principles, losing the chance of actually learning it's more profound teachings.
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Original post: Shub-Yoggoth
The satanic points, in my opinion, are written in a militant stand point. There intended to renforce and decipline the mind.
The satanic points, in my opinion, are written in a militant stand point. There intended to renforce and decipline the mind.