Spirituality and the Sumarian Gods

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Original post: Always Lost

question, what did most of the origonal religions have in common, thats right higher beings visiting and helping, now each of those religions so far apart a lot being in a similar time period all had very similar gods, each 1 with pretty much the exact description and personalities, humans named the gods and put stories to fit them but look at the accounts of those visiting and then start making the link, not at creative stories, at the deeper aspects, enki, ptah, satan, lucifer, all the same being, just different faiths tried different things and saw them as different things, the older ones saw them in person and described, the later ones such as christianity sought to destroy their reputations and changed it, there is more to mythology than just symbolism, otherwise you might aswel slap everyone in the face and tell them all religions are false so says the symbolism man...

But they arnt the same. Ill sort it out for you again.

Satan and Lucifer are modern (sorta modern) creations. Lucifer refers to venus and was used once and it was talking about a human king.

Satan means advisary or accuser to be exact. Anyone can have the title of Satan, it just means hes your enemy. America is the Satan to some Muslims just as Osama Bin Laden is a Satan of America.

Ptah was a unseen creator god. No human saw him or talked to him, he represents the creator of the universe whose work is seen but he is no where to be found. He creates and moves on to create.

Enki was the good of Wisdom, magic but to be more exact the God of Fresh Underground Water. He had a very active role in humanity more active then his brother who was the Lord of the Heavens.

None of em are alike your grasping at straws most of them created by book writers to get money from you.

You cant take Religion out of its culture. It meant something to our ancestors that meaning is lost. You will never never understand Enki the way they did. Stop picking facts you like and ignoring the ones that dont fit your beliefs.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Noctiluca Moonfly

[QUOTE=Ishefa;321960]You also say that it has gotten bad reviews. Where are those reviews? what is the problem other than your own prejudices?[/QUOTE]

The author of the book, Reginald Crossley, is a Christian. While its common that most people from Haiti that practice vodoun are Christianized, I just think it's a bit weird. I was thinking that a book on Vodoun would be written by someone fully subscribed to that faith. Also, one of the reviews says that Crossley was actually anti-vodoun. That could be a bogus review, I'm not sure. I haven't finished the book. I do agree with Centrix when he says that new age physics can be applied to new age religion easily, sometimes too easily.

After some more thinking, I also don't think the website was Afrocentric. The Asatru Alliance is way more Eurocentric than the website I provided is Afrocentric... if those are even appropriate terms. I just think that they are being proud of their faith. And someone said earlier, if one scientific theory that says that the first people came out of Africa, then it makes sense that the first religions were from Africa. Of course, there is a new theory that the earth had ice around the equator due to a difference in the axis position, and people (ancestors of the native americans and asians) came from the north as the poles alligned to their current position.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Sapiens Vir

[QUOTE=Always Lost;321862]Plus I never read any poem that had Enki fighting for heaven. [/quote]

Erroneous source. You're correct statement retracted.


[QUOTE=Always Lost;321862]And Isreal before the exodus worshiped egyptian gods and there idols. While they were in the promise land. Some kings and im sure regular people got interested in there neighbors Gods.[/quote]

Prior to the Egyptian Exodus the Hebrew people were from the region of Uruk. I'm talking about Abraham's migration from Uruk to Canaan. Prior to his bargain with YHWH who do you think he worshiped? Like many of us he likely grew up learning the religion of his parents. Now if you take the account in the bible literally then Abraham was the father of all Hebrew people. What is archaeologically more likely is he was the leader of a tribe. What gods do you suppose his tribe worshiped?


[QUOTE=Always Lost;321862]Also Abraham was a idol maker that doesnt mean he was a priest it means he was good with gold and other precious medals, Im sure he knew quite a few things about those gods but he was no priest.[/QUOTE]

You don't have to be a priest to follow a religion. However Josephus attributes him with having brought the "Chaldean Arts" to Egypt. Namely astrology and astronomy. These were not the things that a craftsman learned, no matter how masterful. It is more likely that Abraham was more heavily involved with the priesthood of Sumeria than the biblical account, remember written by the Hebrews who would probably like to have down played Sumerian origins due to their Babylonian captivity, lets on.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: High Priest Enki

[QUOTE=Always Lost;321962]But they arnt the same. Ill sort it out for you again.

Satan and Lucifer are modern (sorta modern) creations. Lucifer refers to venus and was used once and it was talking about a human king.

Satan means advisary or accuser to be exact. Anyone can have the title of Satan, it just means hes your enemy. America is the Satan to some Muslims just as Osama Bin Laden is a Satan of America.

Ptah was a unseen creator god. No human saw him or talked to him, he represents the creator of the universe whose work is seen but he is no where to be found. He creates and moves on to create.

Enki was the good of Wisdom, magic but to be more exact the God of Fresh Underground Water. He had a very active role in humanity more active then his brother who was the Lord of the Heavens.

None of em are alike your grasping at straws most of them created by book writers to get money from you.

You cant take Religion out of its culture. It meant something to our ancestors that meaning is lost. You will never never understand Enki the way they did. Stop picking facts you like and ignoring the ones that dont fit your beliefs.[/QUOTE]

actuallt the first account of satan is a hebrew attack on older pagan religions lumping many gods into a single category and calling it evil with yes the name adversary, although you do have a general outline and basic idea of these gods due to myths that is where it leaves you, try researching a little more.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Always Lost

actuallt the first account of satan is a hebrew attack on older pagan religions lumping many gods into a single category and calling it evil with yes the name adversary, although you do have a general outline and basic idea of these gods due to myths that is where it leaves you, try researching a little more.

What hebrew scripture? Written or oral? And any enemy of isreal was a satan this means Babylon the state and there gods(thats how they did things back in those days). Hay-shin-teth-nun The STN is usualy how its written. Its a title not a name.

And pagan is a latin word, but I assume you mean foreign gods, hmm and wasnt isreal usualy on bad terms with there neighbors.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: High Priest Enki

although you seem to have information into some jewish and hebrew backrounds, you seem to be very vague and stuck in direct stories rather than symbolism and alike, at the same time you look at direct quotes as vague symbols too, a very odd way to look at writings really, at the same time you seem to have contradicted yourself in several places. I will just say one last thing to you as you seem a little too closed off to even have a discussion with...try to read more, and look deeper, question things, research and look for answers do not just jump on the first thing you are told or read, it might just help you one day mate, till that time our discussion has come to an end, good day.

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Original post: Dunhill

actuallt the first account of satan is a hebrew attack on older pagan religions lumping many gods into a single category and calling it evil with yes the name adversary, although you do have a general outline and basic idea of these gods due to myths that is where it leaves you, try researching a little more.

Could you be a little more specific? Early Hebrews were henotheistic and there is no 'devil/Prince of Evil' in Judaism so I am a bit confused by your statemet. Or are you referring to military battles where the gods of the armies fought in heaven (spirit world - whatever) while the men battled on earth so naturally opposing gods would be seen as adversariel or possibly evil?

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Original post: High Priest Enki

no what happened was when they came about they put the image of past gods, deities and myths, put them into 1 big melting pot added a face to it and called it evil, scaring people from the older faiths...well thats the extremely short version anyway, then christianity adopted it, gave it a background to sound somewhat plausible and called it the route of all evil, since then people neglect where those gods actually started and most of the information of them has gone , lots destroyed by the crusades and hidden in vaults

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Always Lost

no what happened was when they came about they put the image of past gods, deities and myths, put them into 1 big melting pot added a face to it and called it evil, scaring people from the older faiths...well thats the extremely short version anyway, then christianity adopted it, gave it a background to sound somewhat plausible and called it the route of all evil, since then people neglect where those gods actually started and most of the information of them has gone , lots destroyed by the crusades and hidden in vaults

Your confusing Christianity with Judaism.
Ha-Satan or "The Satan" was a title that was given to a person, group of people, kingdoms and armies of Kingdoms.
Satan in Judaism was never given a concrete or specific face.
Christianity gave it a face and a identity.
Even in the story Job the satan was a part being played, the part of the atagonist.
Now atagonist doesnt mean a lump of all past villians in storys either its just a title.

There God was the face that scared the older faiths and foreign faiths.
There god was both good and evil so to speak.
If you followed the law he was merciful, if you disobey the law he was wrathful.
They did not seperate the moods of heaven into gods but into a complex god.

Now in spiritual work if you want to symbolise Hay-shin-teth-nun as some entitity good for you, cause you can do that with a frying pan aswell. But Academicly your facts are ungrounded.
Its a title thats why its preceded by the letter Hay.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: High Priest Enki

First of all, the Hebrew word satan (sin-tet-nun sofit) means an adversary or accuser. It is used this way in Numbers 22:22. "And Godâ??s anger was kindled because he went; and the angel of the Lord stood in the way as an *adversary* against him...." The word marked with *'s and translated as adversary is satan (actually l'satan, l' being a prefix that in the context gives the meaning "as"). Likewise in Numbers 22:32, part of the same story about Bilaam.

This being stood in the way of god was moddled on many pagan gods and took the image similar to the christians use of lucifer, it symbolised the opposition of older faiths labelling them as evil and wrong...

ALTHOUGH there are many adversaries to the jewish people as with any religion (trying to avoid a cheap joke of "big surprise there") I was focusing on 1 point where in your past you have in fact lumped together past gods in the use of diminishing their image, I am not denying the other uses of the word merely focusing on 1 of the adversaries, so no I am not confusing anything, I am recognising an event that was later taken in by christianity I am not telling you how your beliefs are and telling you you only had a single reference to Satan.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Ashnook

actuallt the first account of satan is a hebrew attack on older pagan religions lumping many gods into a single category and calling it evil with yes the name adversary, although you do have a general outline and basic idea of these gods due to myths that is where it leaves you, try researching a little more.

Lumping Enki with your rabble of western ceremonial demons is just poor scholarship (not done in your post but in the website that you advertise.) Lucifer/Satan is the opposing force that most religions have always had. Pazuzu, Nammtar, Nergal, Moloch, Set, Mars, etc. are all fine examples of this. The anti-christian rhetoric about them demonizing older faiths is somewhat bullshit. Certainly it did happen, but other religions did it far before and far worse. Not far before, but certainly far worse, the muslims slaughtered thousands of pagans in the middle east. Egypt meets the west and once again, demonizing occurs. It is quite natural for this to happen.

The christian satan may be modeled after pagan gods, but if so it is not a jumble of gods as you claim. It is a model that has been used for thousands of years. Nammtar, Pazuzu, Nergal, Set, Apep (Apophis), Mars, Loki, etc. Most cultures have their adversaries (demons etc.) Some are borrowed to be sure, but generally when a deity is borrowed it keeps its function.

Your anti-judeo/christian rhetoric is nearly sophomoric. Why do you not, in your post or in the website that you drip into your signature, discuss the parallels between the christian deity Jesus and Enki? The Sumerian gods that reside above the underworld have more in common with Christian divinity than they do with Christian deviltry .

-Ashnook

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Original post: High Priest Enki

I must say well said however the "demonisation" of older faiths is not in any means similar, those were personifications of the darkness, battle of the light of the day and dark of the night, life and death and much more, there were however faiths which communicated with what people would refer to as extra terrestrials, it is just not in the gray or reptillian way but a more scientific approach, looking at some of the original gods as these beings who it was shown taught early humans irrigation and many other functions that kicked off civilisation you can look at the connections of this and their references using their personalities in stories linking through several cultures, the site i advertise and views i have are not about taking older gods and saying they must be right they were first, it is merely taking all this evidence into concideration with a philosophical and scientific approach, when i talk about the demonisation chritainity performed against the gods we believe in that is exactly what i mean, yes they have the light and dark concepts but they are taking previously good entities and piling on information insulting them and many who follow them, there is nothing wrong with the light and dark concept nor belief system but please do try and look deeper than just belief and god concepts, there is more to it as i have just mentioned, hope i did not babble too much in this but i guess you get the idea.

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Original post: Dunhill

It is a simple montheistic progression. Originally you had 'my god is a bigger badass than your god' and it that was it - both gods exist but one is the other's bitch. From a different perspective I have seen Buddhist artwork wher Brahma, Vishnu, Ganesh, etc. are all in a line and bowing before the Buddha showing their subservience to him as Buddhism can be seen as a reaction to Hinduism. While it did not demonize Brahma, it did insult him. Religious propaganda is not unique to the Abrahamic traditions.

However with monotheism there is no other god therefore whatever the opponent is worshipping is not God and is not 'correct'. Therefore any other such beliefs must come from Satan with the sole purpose of getting the faithful to stray. Considering that some of these beliefs included human or even child sacrifices (Moloch for example) this doesn't seem much of a stretch of the imagination.

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Original post: High Priest Enki

and we come from a modern age, why cant people see each other as who they are not what they believe and calling them evil demining their faith because they see you as evil or different, I started this thread highlighting the ideas of the older faiths looking at the gods there and that historical and scientific accounts can back it up only to have christians come on here and call it evil, what a turning point eh, thats where suddenly it went into the talk about satan then into the definitions and now after the circle we are back at the start, other gods, other beliefs and looking for open minded talks instead of niggling, it is silly how this happens haha.
hope that makes sense i just rambled on

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Original post: Always Lost

First of all, the Hebrew word satan (sin-tet-nun sofit) means an adversary or accuser. It is used this way in Numbers 22:22. "And Godâ??s anger was kindled because he went; and the angel of the Lord stood in the way as an *adversary* against him...." The word marked with *'s and translated as adversary is satan (actually l'satan, l' being a prefix that in the context gives the meaning "as"). Likewise in Numbers 22:32, part of the same story about Bilaam.

This being stood in the way of god was moddled on many pagan gods and took the image similar to the christians use of lucifer, it symbolised the opposition of older faiths labelling them as evil and wrong...

ALTHOUGH there are many adversaries to the jewish people as with any religion (trying to avoid a cheap joke of "big surprise there") I was focusing on 1 point where in your past you have in fact lumped together past gods in the use of diminishing their image, I am not denying the other uses of the word merely focusing on 1 of the adversaries, so no I am not confusing anything, I am recognising an event that was later taken in by christianity I am not telling you how your beliefs are and telling you you only had a single reference to Satan.

Reread your Tanakh. Satan again isnt some foreign god or devil but a name for one who gives opposition and it wasnt toward God.
Read what the Angel of the Lord was doing and to whom. And read verse 20, the last part where god tells him to do what he commanded.

20: That night God came to Balaam and said to him, "If these men have come to invite you, you may go with them. But whatever I command you, that you shall do."

Now lets go back to 12:
But God said to Balaam, "Do not go with them. You must not cusre that people, for they are blessed.

Now in 12 god gives a command.

But in 20 he tells him you may, as in do what you wish, then adds.
Do what I commanded you to do.

Balaam did as he wished and ignored gods command. Thats who the Angel of the Lord was a satan to.

I use Job and the Hay mark cause thats a more known story and spelling of the word (seen it alot on forums and websites). Plus its the first use of the word.

Names like, False Gods or Idols were usualy given to old gods or foreign ones.
Satan only meant something in Christianity.

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Original post: Always Lost

Do what you wish wasnt a good explination of it. Its more like since they invited you, your able to go; but do what I tell you to do and not what you can do.
Thats why in 22 it made god mad.

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Original post: High Priest Enki

well i guess on this point we are just going to have to agree to disagree, the theory, backrounds and explanations will just continue to circle and well just get frustrated with each other

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Original post: Always Lost

Thats what the scriptures says. It never said the Angel of the Lord went against God. Your miss reading it.

"This being stood in the way of god was moddled on many pagan gods and took the image similar to the christians use of lucifer, it symbolised the opposition of older faiths labelling them as evil and wrong..."

Nothing stood in the way of god in that scripture.

For a priest of a God of Wisdom you sure are blind to your own convictions.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Noctiluca Moonfly

[QUOTE=Ashnook;324277] The anti-christian rhetoric about them demonizing older faiths is somewhat bullshit. Certainly it did happen, but other religions did it far before and far worse. [/QUOTE]

Did they? I'm sure, and it probably was incredibly violent. But, what's the largest world religion now? Christianity. It's travelled oceans and wiped out whole continents.

Anyway, I think you were addressing Enki as you quoted him, but if you were referring to more people than just him, I wasn't being anti-Christian for the sake of being anti-Christian. And I wasn't denying that other religions weren't nasty (understatement, I know) to other religions.

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Original post: High Priest Enki

[QUOTE=Always Lost;324480]

For a priest of a God of Wisdom you sure are blind to your own convictions.[/QUOTE]

you know what mate, up yours too, no point being a complete asshole just because someone disagrees with you, you can take your scripture and insert it rectally for all i care now, see how that feels eh, you get what you give buddy

FYI I pasted a direct passage, am I misreading or are you just saying i am because you don't like how i take it, there are many interpretations of text, there is no point being mr superior, why not sit there and do some quotes yourself instead of sitting there insulting people, because right now where I sit your name seems to suit you pretty damn well.

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Original post: Darkwater

Right on High Priest Enki,

Just because they slaughtered & persecuted all opposition for more than a millenia dosen't mean we have to do what Christian Mutated Dogform tells us to do.

I haven't time to read this through,I have a feeling I will back you up some more on Monday.

Love & light,

Andy

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Always Lost

you know what mate, up yours too, no point being a complete asshole just because someone disagrees with you, you can take your scripture and insert it rectally for all i care now, see how that feels eh, you get what you give buddy

FYI I pasted a direct passage, am I misreading or are you just saying i am because you don't like how i take it, there are many interpretations of text, there is no point being mr superior, why not sit there and do some quotes yourself instead of sitting there insulting people, because right now where I sit your name seems to suit you pretty damn well.

Its not that you disagree is that you spout Bs as its truth. That scripture never said anything went against god.

"there are many interpretations of text" no there isnt. Its just you have poor reading comprehension. Read the stuff after it. Who is that Angel of The Lord messing with. It aint God.


I came to this thread hopeing to find more about the sumarian Gods cause of a new deck i got.
Instead I find a small post that has nothing to do with Sumarian Gods. Incorrect information and a advertisment of a website.

Wheres the "Spirituality and the Sumarian Gods" information that was advertised?

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Original post: High Priest Enki

[QUOTE=Always Lost;324618] is that you spout Bs as its truth.[/QUOTE]


nuff said


and thanks Darkwater =)

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Original post: She Demon Wolf

Either people can at least try and play a little nicer, or the thread gets locked. If you don't like someone's beliefs, you're entitled to say so - but don't try and force someone else round to your points of view. If you don't like it, skip over it. If you want to give your imput - great. Just don't make it personal.

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Original post: High Priest Enki

just wandering if that was pointed to me or not, twice now i have said to him that we should agree to disagree and i was met with quite frankly rude remarks. (but just to be safe...adds Always lost to ignore list)